The Democratic Party is SUPPOSED to be the liberal left wing of politics

[Armstead]

All of the damn spin about the Democrats is that the "liberal left" is taking over the Democratic Party, and that Howard Dean is an example is the personification of that.

Well, that isn't true. If it were, Dennis Kucinich would be the front runner. But that's beside the point.

Both the critics of Dean from the left and right are correct about Dean. He isn't a hard-core liberal. But he isn't a conservative Democrat centrist either.

He is a moderate liberal in the classic (and sometimes idealized) mold of the traditional Democratic mainstream. The kind epitomized by Harry Truman, JFK and FDR. Pragmatic but idealistic in a truly librral sense.

Times are different, but Dean basically has the same approach. Fiscal caution, but in favor of social supports and regulation as they relate to creating and growing a middle class in America and helping those who need help. Also a willingness to challenge the corporate status quo when necessary, without being revolutionary.

In otehr words, he is firmly on the left, without being a leftist. Thus he is too conservative for the more liberal and progressive wings, but too liberal for the conservative "centrists."

It is sad -- tragic -- how those in the conservative corporate DLC "centrists" are dismissing and trashing Dean and what he represents.

The only difference that should exist among "centrists," and liberals and progressives -- as expressed through the Democratic Party -- is how far and how fast to go. It should NOT be about the basic direction.

It's time the Democrats stop apologizing for being on the left and being liberal, and started defending those values.

[bowens43]

1. I agree completely.

We as party seem to have embraced the right wing rhetoric on the evils of the 'leftists' and 'liberals'. We have allowed 'liberal' to become a dirty word. If we have to continue the slide to the right to remain relevant then we have already lost the war and it really doesn't matter who wins the election of 04.

This belief that in order to win the election we must have a military man as the nominee is a belief based in fear and resignation.
We're not buying it.

[WiseMen]

16. Party Need 10 yr Grass-Roots, Ideologically-Deep, Education Effort

Maybe Gore's effort to combine his "Liberal Media Network" with our online activism will accomplish this.

[HFishbine]

17. Missing an obvious piece of the puzzle, no? (n/t)

[vi5]

2. I'm not disagreeing, but by the same token...

You'd be hard pressed to find a hardcore liberal, fully left wing politician beyond Wellstone who has won a major national office in the past say 10 years.

Admittedly I could be forgetting about someone, but the fact is that there are more areas of the country where a hard right politician can thrive and have a long career than there are where a hard left politician can.

And I'm hoping nobody points out Al Gore's last minute "populist turn" either because that is a pretty poor example.

[edzontar]

3. I agree completely, too...

I am getting sick of the "let's out-conservative Bush" arguments.

Thanks for reminding us what our party is supposed to stand fro.

[HereSince1628]

4. Morning Armstead I feel your pain

mostly an awful headache from the dissonance of phrases like "conservative centrists." I always thought that as one moved to the center the character of both extremes was lost...stretching my brain to encompass such things hurts my head.

[GreenArrow]

5. a moderate is a rightist in these times

"Times are different, but Dean basically has the same approach. Fiscal caution, but in favor of social supports and regulation as they relate to creating and growing a middle class in America and helping those who need help. Also a willingness to challenge the corporate status quo when necessary, without being revolutionary."

I don't see Dean as left-leaning at all. He tends to lean in whatever direction it's expedient to lean into, (a pose) but fundamentaly, he seems very conservative to me. At heart, he's basically a corporate capitalist, and his fiscal stinginess will benefit corporate America at the expense of social programs. When has Dean been willing to challenge the corporate status quo? He's inseperable from it.

[edzontar]

7. Nonsense--Dean has taken some very bold positions

And has not backed down--he is lessof a pandere than almost any of his rivals.

[GreenArrow]

10. for example?

Which bold positions has Dean taken that do not have some sort of qualifier attached or which don't seem to subtly change the next time he speaks about them?

He is as much of a panderer as any of his rivals; that's one of the things politicians do best--they pander. The difference is that the pandering Dean is doing is meeting a much more receptive audience that the pandering that his opponents are doing is. But at the end of the day, his postions are little different than theirs. It's all about presentation.

[Polemonium]

11. I'm not sure where this is coming from

"I don't see Dean as left-leaning at all. He tends to lean in whatever direction it's expedient to lean into, (a pose) but fundamentally, he seems very conservative to me. At heart, he's basically a corporate capitalist, and his fiscal stinginess will benefit corporate America at the expense of social programs. When has Dean been willing to challenge the corporate status quo? He's inseparable from it."


Please read "common sense for a new century" and his "new social contract"
http://www.deanforamerica.com/

It would be hard to say that most of the stuff coming out of this campaign isn't left leaning. Dean at heart is a populist who looks to do the best for his constituents (kind of what you might expect from a doctor). This naturally brings him further left than many, and we (the supporters) have pushed Dean even further left than he would have gone otherwise. There is a great deal of evidence that he is using ideas coming from his supporters to frame the campaign and some of his policy ideas. The Dean campaign is not about one man, but about a grass roots movement that is guiding the man that inspired us to get involved in democracy again. If we continue to finance much of his campaign he will be separated from the status quo, and a grass roots driven party will be able to hold his feet to the fire. I'm a green so I understand your fear and frustration, but this campaign is about hope, and taking a big step in the right direction.

[auntpattywatty]

6. Wonderful - and true - post.

[OHdem10]

8. This should be posted in every Newspaper, Read--

on every TV and Radio Newsshow which deals with politics.
Posted all over the DNC and DLC Headquarters.

The only difference that should exist among "Centrists" is how far and how fast to go. No Democrat should hand the opposition one our best issues as was done with Medicare. Lines have to be drawn.

Your post is brilliant because of its clarity.

[rucky]

9. Dean & Gore offer us a chance to get back on track

by being in neither camp & both camps at the same time. The middle ground between left & center is center-left, which describes Dean, imo. All we have to do is want unity & show some willingness to compromise, and we can have it. Dean supporters don't agree with everything he says, but they can see this potential. Hope supporters of other candidates will be able to as well, if Dean does get the nomination.

[demnan]

12. Kick!

:kick:

[mike_c]

13. it's time for the democratic party to stand up...

...and be proud of it's liberalism. It sickens me that when repigs attack the dems as "liberals" dems accept the pergorative intent and try to hide from the liberal label rather than taking it as affirmation and firing back "damn right we're liberal!"

Just to set the record straight: I'm liberal and proud!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. I'm not a Dean supporter, but

I agree that the Democratic Party needs the courage of its convictions.

I'm a Kucinich supporter because I believe that he proposes the boldest, most coherent, most positive alternative to the Republicans, and I see no need to compromise before the nominating convention.

But whoever the nominee is, we have to stop being ashamed of not being conservative. No Dem should be going on TV (the only news source for most Americans) and blabbing on and on about "supporting the 'president'" and "the Democratic party being too far left." If I were chair of the DNC, such people would get a stern phone call and would be told that they'd better stop talking like Republicans if they want the party's financial and other support and don't want a well-funded primary challenger.

Otherwise, we will end up like El Salvador in the 1980s, where they had "free elections" to select from a set of parties whose ideology ranged from Reagan to Mussolini, i.e. right-wing to outright fascist.

I don't know who said it, but, "Nobody will respect you if you don't respect yourself."

[maha]

15. Kucinich is no liberal.

Kucinich is an authoritarian with (mostly) progressive policy ideas, although he is capable of being remarkably reactionary.

A liberal is a person whose core principals flow from a belief in the development of individual freedom. From the Columbia Encyclopedia:

Because the concepts of liberty or freedom change in different historical periods the specific programs of liberalism also change. The final aim of liberalism, however, remains fixed, as does its characteristic belief not only in essential human goodness but also in human rationality. Liberalism assumes that people, having a rational intellect, have the ability to recognize problems and solve them and thus can achieve systematic improvement in the human condition.

Progressivism is often associated with liberalism because, it is assumed, a free people will choose progressive policies. However, to a liberal what's most important is protecting the processes of democracy so that people really are making their own choices, even if those choices are not progressive.

Kucinich's lifelong style is "I know what's good for you, even better than you do." That attitude is what got him flushed out of the Mayor's office in Cleveland (the Muni Power issue is just his excuse). And based on his voting record as a congressman, he has not changed. He is not liberal, but authoritarian. By definition a true liberal cannot be an authoritarian.

I am a liberal, and I hope the Democratic Party stands for liberalism first and foremost.

[redqueen]

19. This is just sad, maha.

"That attitude is what got him flushed out of the Mayor's office in Cleveland (the Muni Power issue is just his excuse)."

Oh really? So what's your evidence for believing that it's Kucinich's 'authoritarian attitude' that resulted in him not being re-elected? Please do share it. I'm sure you have something concrete, right? So please, let's see it.

Nice thread hijack, btw.

I'm curious... who out of the nine major candidates, in your opinion, is more liberal than Kucinich?

[GreenArrow]

20. even by these standards

Kucinich is the most liberal candidate in the race.

Of all the cadidate's platforms, Kucinichs does the most towards encouraging the development of personal freedoms. No one else even comes close.

[dolstein]

18. Sorry to break this to you, but for most of its political history

the Democratic Party was anything but uniformly left-wing. Even at the height of the New Deal and the Great Society, the Democratic Party had a large Southern contingent (including many committee chairmen in Congress) that was openly hostile to liberal agenda of many Northern Democrats.

The fact is, that even in 1964, when the Democratic Party was arguably at its peak, the party was about one-third ideological liberals, one-third Southern conservatives, and one-third urban ethnic political machine hacks (think Mayor Daley) motivated primarily by pork-barrel politics, not liberal ideology.

And hey, let's talk about those great liberal icons of years past. William Jennings Bryan? He opposed the teaching of evolution. FDR? He completely caved in to the South on racial issues. Truman? He dropped the bomb, sent troops into Korea and overall took a very hard-line approach towards Communism. JFK? He was no liberal. He was a fan of McCarthy. He was happy Nixon beat Helen Douglas. He actually ran to the right of Nixon on foreign policy in 1960. LBJ? Vietnam. Hubert Humphrey? Chicago '68.

Sorry, but the DLC is actually far more representative of the Democratic Party, historically speaking, than either Kucinich and Dean. People around here think the Democratic Party began -- and ended -- in 1972. But 1972 was a historical abberation. It's the only time that the liberal ideologues truly controlled the party. And we saw how well that worked out.

[ShimokitaJer]

21. So what are you suggesting?

That we abandon the party and vote Green? That we as liberals (if, indeed, that is what we are) give in to the DLC vision of what the Democratic party is, simply because we are Democrats and they are in charge?

A political party is what its constituents make of it. The positions of the two parties over the last several years would not even be recognizable to one of the early D's or R's, to the point that the old labels are about as arbitrary as you can imagine, clung to by those who want to hold onto power, but without real meaning. All that matters is the positions the people can force their party to champion.

So, whether or not we believe we are trying to restore the ideals of the Democratic party, or wrest control of it away from the corporatists, it is the same thing in the end. We have a duty to vote for candidates who represent our vision of America, and if those candidates have a D behind their name, so much the better.

[dolstein]

22. What I'm suggesting

is that a little historical context would be particularly useful when assessing the current state of the Democratic Party. Nobody who was truly familiar with the history of the Democratic Party, and of American politics as general, would be so foolish to suggest that the DLC was a conservative or quasi-Republican organization. The fact of the matter is that history is largely on the side of the DLC. Many DU'ers would like to believe that the Democratic Party was most successful when it was espousing McGovern liberalism. That's simply untrue. And the agenda of the DLC is far closer to the FDR/Truman/JFK tradition that DU'ers would care to admit.

[Armstead]

24. I hope you notice that I said "idealized" version...

I know the historical context. I also said times change.

But the Democratic Party has been more of the populist liberal party than the Republicans, and has been the home of most progressive reform despite its' reactionary aspects.

And IMO times today need a populist liberal alternative to the Corporate Government, because we have strayed so far to the right over the last 30 years.

[BobbyJay]

23. What I'm saying is that the liberal left-wing doesn't DEFINE the Party

It is part of the Democratic Party, but not the only part.

[Dookus]

25. Yup...

It's time the Democrats stop apologizing for being on the left and being liberal, and started defending those values.


That's exactly why I support Wesley Clark.

[corporatewhore]

26. Hello DJK is more like FDR

[cryofan]

27. Dean is RightWinger who latched onto a couple token "liberal" positions

He did this to paint himself as a liberal to get past the liberals who nominate the Demo candidate.