When Bush pulls the "He's going to raise your taxes!" crap, shouldn't we

[zbdent]

point out that Kerry is the only candidate running who's seriously going to raise his own taxes??

If Kerry raises the highest tax bracket back to the pre-W levels, then that specifically hurts himself!

[xray s]

1. I'd prefer we say this

George, John Kerry isn't going to raise our taxes, he is going to raise your taxes! :)

[flaminbats]

2. We need to be just as brutal...

Kerry's response, "He's already slashing military pay and benefits!..Can America really afford another 9/11 under this President's feeble watch?"

[Birthmark]

3. I'd point out...

...that Bush is raising taxes on our children with his insanely irresponsible deficits.

[rocktivity]

4. "Kerry is going to our raise taxes?

But Bush is going to raise our deficits!"

:headbang:
rocknation

[DaveSZ]

5. Howard Dean's line:

About Bush's tax cuts raising the state and local taxes (like property taxes) I found was particularly effective - especially since it's true.

[tobius]

7. The problem with deans argument was after everyone's taxes were raised

back up he didn't suggest that magically those state and local taxes/fees/tuition would go back down.

[CTLawGuy]

22. its the perogative of state government to lower taxes too...

If you think people are thrilled at the amount of tax they have to pay at the state level, think again. State politicians would love a chance to lower taxes to more reasonable levels.

the problem is Kerry faces the worst of both worlds.

Bush can call him a tax rasier
Bush can claim he voted against the tax cuts he now supports

[The Magistrate]

6. The Proper Reply Is A Simple Question

"Are you making more than two hundred thousand dollars a year?"

If the answer is no, Sen. Kerry is not going to raise your taxes....

"Desperate men do desperate things, and stupid men do srupid things. We are in for a desperately stupid summer."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[tobius]

8. Many aspire to earn that much and don't see themselves as villainous. nt

[The Magistrate]

9. They Do Not Have It Now, Sir

And in times of fear for continued employment, worry to even keep what they have. The question is not one of villainy, though there are times and points where that is useful to raise, but simply of "What's in it for me?" and "Why should I care if your ox is gored?"

One of the dark, grim keys of electoral politics is the urility of selecting a small group, and making it the target for a much larger bloc to clump together, around the idea of excluding it from the common assembly. It is not a pretty or edifying process, but it works.

"Who has no enemies has no friends."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[DaveSZ]

10. In response to Tobias:

I agree with you in that I'm also tired of that particular rhetoric vilifying the wealthy being used.

It seems that the concept and fundamental fairness of a progressive tax structure can be explained without "hating the rich."

Or am I just talking shit here?

[DaveSZ]

11. Oh

And I saw a mercedes with a Lloyd Dogget bumper sticker today, so I thought that was cool. :)

[tobius]

12. ah yes, a wedge issue or what's termed-

divisiveness. Yes it has had some effectiveness, although normally it would be a small group that the larger bloc would not typically want to become.

[The Magistrate]

13. A 'Wedge Issue' Is Something Different, Sir

That is something designed specifically to pit two loyalties against one another, generally by appealing to a moral interest to drive action against a material interest. These can feature small groups as a target of agitation, but such are not necessary to the practice.

"Persons who are fond of laws and sausages should not warch either being made."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[tobius]

14. ok, let's throw out wedge issue; I still contend, as an opinion of course,

that the appeal of targeting the "other(s)" is made more difficult by aspirations of many Americans to achieve higher and greater financial success and join that lofty group.


wedge issue
n. A sharply divisive political issue, especially one that is raised by a candidate or party in hopes of attracting or disaffecting a portion of an opponent's customary supporters. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition


class struggle
n : conflict between social or economic classes (especially between the capitalist and proletariat classes)
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

[The Magistrate]

21. It Is A Sound Opinion, Sir

But it remains the best line available in present circumstances on this question, in my view.

The "class war" shibboleth, as generally raised, conceals an unstated assumption that needs to be exploded, namely that "class war" consists solely of resentlments by the less well off toward the rich. In fact, there is a continual class war directed by the rich towards the less well off, in which the rich seek quite openly to gather more and more of the assests of the less well off into their own hands, whether by giving less recompense for labor, so that a greater share of the value produced by work goes to the owners rather than the workers, or by the increase of government debt, so that a greater portion of the taxes collected are simply shifted to the accounts of bond-holders as interest payments, or by other means. It is the open and continual war of the rich against the poor that is the real "class war" in this country, and political action ought to contain elements calculated to open the people's eyes to this.

"The laboring class is necessarily the largest proportion of society, and it is nonesense to maintain that what will benefit the largest portion can be injurious to the whole,"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[July]

15. And it's not villainous, nor has Kerry said it (wealth) is.

Bush has created the divide by so heavily throwing the breaks to the wealthy; Kerry is talking about throwing some back to the middle class and keeping the tax system progressive. And, as someone else has pointed out, if he's "raising" taxes on anyone by repealing the Bush cuts, it's on people like himself.

Kerry's more in line with Clinton, who often points out that people like himself are getting big cuts that they don't need.

The real divide is between those who favor progressive taxation and those who don't, not between the wealthy and those who are not wealthy.

[DaveSZ]

16. Well said July

But I need to hear Kerry mention keeping the tax code a progressive one more often to ofset the GOP charge of "class warfare."

[flaminbats]

17. Another reason Repugs hate debating economics...

every time they claim Democrats are waging class warfare on the uppity, Republicans slash their own throats! :smoke:

[rasputin1952]

18. Kerrey is advocating rescinding the tax cuts on the top 2%...

of those that have a major portion of the wealth of this country in their hands.

This is not a new taxation, but more of a return to what was the rate before bush's 2 tax cuts. The 'middle class' would be exempt from the return to the previous levels, and thereby more money would actually flow into the economy. The middle and lower classes spend more than the big guys. You may have 20 ultra rich people buying new refrigerators at $1000 apiece; but you have 3000 people buying refrigerators at $600 apiece, and on credit!

The tax cuts that bush helped implement, have helped the elite investor class, but has severely depleted the spending of the consumer classes. When you add state and local tax increases to cover the losses in Federal allocations, you create a huge economic bomb, just waiting for a match to light the fuse.

To me, you must pay for the things you enjoy. The biggest problem, is spending on absurd items; pork projects, and unwanted unnecessary items for either defense or local discretionary projects.

Does my city of 20,000 really need a SWAT armored vehicle? I live in NE Nebraska, I have yet to see the need for that little gem, (and now they say it needs to be replaced). I would rather have the police getting new vehicles, better training and better communications equipment.

The roads are atrocious, and the FD could use more firefighters. These were partially funded by Federal dollars that have dried up in recent years.

I don't even want to think about the schools...and we have good schools in NE, but they will go down the tubes if people don't take responsibility.

O8)

[DrFunkenstein]

19. Only For People Who Can Afford A Bush Fundraiser

[rasputin1952]

20. ROFLMAO...What a pic!...

bush even has disdain for ceremonial 'holding of the shovel'!!!!!

I bet his hands are silky smooth and only slightly besmudged from fondling all that cash he has.

What a schlump! This guy NEVER did any work at all. I sure hope he doesn't get sprains from pulling that cord on the chainsaw!

:bounce:

[The Magistrate]

23. That Is An Excellent Picture, Doctor

And an even better line for refutation than my offering.

Well done, Sir!

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[TheStateChief]

24. Does Kerry raise taxes just on the income over $200K or the whole thing?

Does Kerry's tax increase impact only that income over $200,000 or, if you make $201,000 for instance, does all of your income fall under the higher tax?

[Rowsdower]

25. It's an income tax, not an asset tax

Kerry wouldn't be raising taxes on himself. The majority of Kerry's wealth is already acquired. He doesn't make that much as a senator.