Kerry and the NED

[windansea]

Kerry supports more funding for it:

Kerry faulted Bush for providing funding for the National Endowment for Democracy that he said "is less than 3 percent of what this administration gives Halliburton." Bush, however, has proposed to double the endowment's budget in the next fiscal year, and he has made the promotion of democracy in the "Greater Middle East" a key goal of his administration this year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A12301-2004Feb27?language=pri...

The NED has been attacked from both the left and right:

NED's very mission, particularly in its early days, was challenged on ideological grounds. Opponents on the far left believed that promoting democracy was tantamount to interfering in the internal affairs of other countries in the service of U.S. foreign policy interests. Although a few antagonists continue on occasion to voice opposition, their numbers have dwindled, particularly with changes after the Cold War in attitudes on the left toward U.S. internationalism.

More significant opposition to the Endowment was voiced in the early years by some elements of the human rights community, who occasionally mischaracterized NED's natural interest in free and fair elections as its sole focus, while arguing that such elections do not necessarily guarantee the protection of basic rights. NED's programmatic emphasis on long-term democratic development, the building of civil society, and funding indigenous human rights groups has won over many of these early critics, and in fact has led to a substantial coalescence of interest between NED and the human rights community.

Within certain elements of the right, there have been allegations from time to time that the Endowment is promoting a "social democratic" agenda. These are based largely upon the prominent role played by the labor movement, as well as the social democratic background of NED's President. (19) Nonetheless, over the years mainstream conservative activists and thinkers have been among the most outspoken advocates on behalf of the Endowment. Endorsements of NED have been offered by the leadership of such stalwart conservative organizations as the Heritage Foundation and Empower America, and favorable editorials have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times and National Review.

http://www.ned.org/about/nedhistory.html

The NED enjoys overwhelming bi-partisan support:

NED's congressional support has grown steadily during its first twenty years. From the early days of close and frequent votes on its authorizing and appropriating legislation, it has moved beyond survival to widespread bipartisan endorsement on the Hill. In fact, identical Senate and House resolutions (S. Con Res 66; H. Con Res 274) commending the National Endowment for Democracy “for its major contributions to the strengthening of democracy around the world on the occasion of the 20th anniversary” of its establishment, and endeavoring “to continue to support vital work” were passed in October, 2003. The Senate resolution was passed by unanimous voice vote; the House resolution sailed through on a roll call vote of 391-1. Both resolutions had strong, bipartisan co-sponsorship.(10) These votes were a reflection of how far the Endowment had come over the years in establishing not only its legitimacy but also the widespread bipartisan approval of its work. But the road had not always been a smooth one.

http://www.ned.org/about/nedhistory.html

The NED is an independent NGO:

NED's authorizing legislation spells out its non-governmental status, namely that "Nothing in this title shall be construed to make the Endowment an agency or establishment of the United States Government." (14) Board members are not selected by the President and those who are appointed to serve in the Executive Branch relinquish their Board membership.

Does anyone know more about Kerry's position on the NED? I haven't seen him criticize it and if he wants more funding for it, he must support what they do.

[windansea]

1. hmmmm

boring subject or a hand grenade nobody wants to pick up??

[MAlibdem]

2. wots wrong with NED?

we shouldn't be promoting democracy abroad? democracy and human rights are integrally linked

[windansea]

5. not a thing

but in LBN and GD forums the NED is viewed by many as an evil extension of the CIA and bush trying to topple governments....I have been supporting the constitutional right of venezuelans to have their recall vote and citing statements by the Carter Center, Kofi Annan, the EU, Barney Frank etc etc that also support these rights.

[littlejoe]

6. One thing that is wrong with it, is that the NED is primarily

responsible for supporting training camps in the state of Florida for Venezuelan dissidents to overthrow the Chavez government.

Promoting the virtues of a democratic society is one thing. It is something altogether different, when the organization is involved in overthrowing foreign governments.

It's no wonder that foreign leaders such as Chavez call Bush an asshole!

[windansea]

8. please post links to credible sources

that state we are training dissidents to "overthrow" Chavez

[littlejoe]

9. Do your own investigating. I've done mine.

It would help if you subscribed to bushnews. They offer over 100 headlines from the top news sources from around the world.

[windansea]

10. he he....you made the allegation

put up your proof or no one will take you seriously

[littlejoe]

12. You know, when I am interested in something, I do my own

investigating. I am not interested in a debate on this topic. I was parting out one of many disturbing facts about the NED. The information is out there, if you are truly interested.

[windansea]

13. LOL

you have no proof...when you make an allegation, you need to back it up, otherwise you look ridiculous

BS doesn't float so good in this forum

[littlejoe]

15. How fucking typical of so many people. You want me to

do your work for you?

Alright, chew on this link, for starters.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Mar04/Berkowitz0311.htm


There are other articles out there. I suggest you do something besides read posts in DU. You might learn something.

[littlejoe]

16. One more thing. I don't spread bullshit.

When I cite facts, you can bank on it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. An unwillingness to make an argument is so 'fucking typical'

of those who are unable to do so.

[littlejoe]

20. How obtuse. I gave you one link. I guess I'll have to spoon feed

all of you another. After that, you are on your own.

That is, of course, unless you are less interested in the information, and more interested in a smear contest.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story-jsp?story=500711

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Your imitation of google is impressive.

Will we ever see the equal of such rhetoric again?

[littlejoe]

26. I had to simplify it, to make sure you could understand.

[windansea]

19. errrrrrrrrrr where's the beef?

The NED funds groups all over the world,,,common knowledge

still waiting for the "dissidents training to overthrow Chavez" proof.

As my girlfriend is venezuelan and we talk and email people there daily....I know quite a bit about the situation and when you spout BS you will get called on it.

[littlejoe]

22. How freaking hard is it for you to put your fingers on your

keyboard and wander through some websites? Or begin a search with a keyword or two?


But then, you aren't interested in the truth are you?

[windansea]

24. there is no "proof" the NED is funding dissidents

to "overthrow Chavez"

they have funded opposition groups who see a democratic vote to recall Chavez, said recall vote being a constitutional law that was supported by Chavez.

Now if you have proof of your allegation, please let us all know..it would be a great issue for Kerry to pound bush with.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. "Proof" will be as difficult to find...

as with any other conspiracy theories. There does appear to be some evidence, though:

http://www.mediatransparency.org/stories/ned.html

Berkowitz seems to have taken this on as a personal mission.

The NED is a cold war relic that may have done quite a few good things, but appears to have stuck its claws into some less savory situations and dealings, as cold war relics tend to do. My own opinion is that any organization with such a mission will have some explaining to do if and when the truth comes out about all of its operations.

So it goes in the life of a superpower.

[littlejoe]

23. The problem with a great many people in this forum, is that

when they support a candidate they refuse to believe that there could be stances that the candidate takes that could be wrong.

You should never blindly follow anyone.

And if you choose to remain ignorant of facts, don't try to smear me. I have the facts, and I have access to more facts.

I have a friend tha t lives in Brazil. That doesn't make him an expert on the secret machinations of the U.S. government there.

[windansea]

36. bring on the facts

O wise one..........

[littlejoe]

38. I'm through wasting my time on you. You obviously see nothing

wrong with American organizations whose sole purpose is to infiltrate and overthrow other governments.

[windansea]

42. buh bye n/t

[gate of the sun]

44. you are absolutly correct little joe

There is a disturbing and ignorant trend on Du these days in regards to whoever people are supporting. It seems as though the well thought out and intelligent posts are a thing of the past, but not entirely. There are many good people on DU who are still interested in the real truth despite who it may implicate ,what corruption it exposes because they want the truth. It's easy to spot who doesn't care. This issue with the NED is certainly something for us to look into. I was looking into it myself due to the article on Latest Breaking about the US and Venezuela in regards to us having something to do with fueling dissent in Venezuela. My brother's best friend happens to be Jeremy Bigwoods the dude who broke the story. I'm going to look into seeing if I can find more information. This deal with Ned is very disturbing. I need to look more into it myself as I don't know enough yet.....it looks as though it stinks. No surprise there. My question is how deeply involved is Kerry in this organization and besides PPI is this another place Kerry puts his allegience if so it looks as though we are only changing the man in charge for another who has Imperialistic goals.Many don't want to face up to where we are at and who we may have nominated for our candidate, alas for many it doesn't matter because they are convinced it's just bush and that D besides someone's name will save us all from the last 3 years of unbelievable changes,unjustice,lies and loss of civil rights we have been forced to accept.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. Why don't you try engaging in a debate?

Not with me because this is not a topic on which I am informed nor one on which I have an opinion. But "Do your own investigating. I've done mine." is BS. I'm sick of people just making accusations and throwing out charges without being willing to follow up.

[blm]

18. Or maybe we're getting tired of your constant baiting.

Lately all your threads seem to have a distinctly rightwing apologist bent while attempting to tear Kerry down.

[windansea]

21. I haven't attacked Kerry for weeks

I accept him as nominee...this post is not a thread to trap Kerry at all...just to confirm his support for NED and learn more about it.

if you think I am a rw apologist for supporting the constitutional rights of venezuelans to have a recall vote then I am in good company as Carter, Frank, Annan, Carville and many others have the same opinion as me.

[mobuto]

3. Not boring at all

Kerry, as usual, is absolutely right. This Administration talks about promoting democracy and human rights, yet never actually gets around to doing it. The NED can do great things in the Middle East if it were given the tools. Maybe we should spend a little less on Missile Defense and a little more on Democratic offense.

[windansea]

7. do you know who appoints the directors of NED?

they are an NGO with no executive branch control correct?

[mobuto]

14. Correct

And the board of directors seems pretty down-the-line bipartisan. A lot of good Democrats on there.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. Actually most of the great gains in human rights abroad

have been accomplished through NGO's...especially in the area of education...not all NGO's are created equal.

[windansea]

29. so giving money to support democracy

around the world is a good thing right?

educating people to achieve their goals democratically...

I like it

[littlejoe]

30. How about educating people to the sinister workings of a rogue

agency. Or didn't you read the links? Oh, I forgot. You are the one who doesn't want facts to get in the way of your preformed opinion.

[windansea]

32. yes I read your links

FOIA docs tell the same story...the NED has been doing the same thing for 30 years....with strong bi-partisan support...tell me something new

[gate of the sun]

46. The NED is 21 years old... it's a Reagan era baby.

Bi-partisan, only if you are willing to look outside of your own affiliation to a party do you begin to see that the line of demarcation between (major) parties is negligable. When you see the acts you, as a member of this republic are attributing to, then you may realize the damage this amongst other U.S. funded programs are causing. It is not party, it is a wholeness... we are all whole and this government acts upon our consensus which means that all you, me, the other 40 something DUers and every taxpaying citizen of this country has contributed to thousands of deaths in the name of what we believe is "democracy".

You may enjoy envoking a minimalist idealogy to situations that requires a maximum + of idealogy... however, I emplore you to step out from "americana" and see all of humanity and that we all are a water specks being tossed about between windansea. In that revelation I hope you can see humanity, your own frailtys to start and then how enormous fragility is for everyone. Then see the outcome of meddleing in politics of others, religion of others, lives of others... we all have our focus of intent, let your focus of intent be happiness in life not through idealogy but through simplicity.

many blessings-

p.s. My handle is hedgetrimmer, I am gate of the sun's spouse. I did not logout and then login, I just wrote my post under her name.

[Zhade]

48. You both make great points about uncomfortable truths.

Time will tell us the wisdom of our choices, if we listen. Many don't. Many refuse to. Many are too scared to.

I guess we'll see, eh?

[littlejoe]

31. By the way, just how old are you?

[rasputin1952]

34. Over the years, I've seen many passionate people...

of all ages.

Peoples passions cross all age, race, and gender lines. I have seen passion in 14 yo's, 85 yo's and everything in between. I am often amazed at how much more teens know now, than when I was one. Keeps me on my toes, and ensures that I am always keeping an open mind and learning.

O8)

[windansea]

35. nice avatar

good post!

[rasputin1952]

39. Thanks...I have a thing abour eagles...

really beautiful birds.

O8)

[littlejoe]

37. did you hear that, windandsea? Try to keep an open mind.

[rasputin1952]

40. Well, actually littlejoe, I was replying to your post...

while you make some excellent points, I didn't see where age had anything to do with what windansea was saying.

I think everyone should keep an open mind, it helps get us through this life.

O8)

[littlejoe]

41. I gave her access to information to try and enlighten her. She is the

one who has closed her mind. Why don't YOU ask her why that is? What is her motive? Why is SHE the one who is so resistant to knowledge?

One more question, just what is your stake in this argument?

[windansea]

43. he...not she....suggest you write your congressman

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll532.xml

[rasputin1952]

45. I have no stake at all in this conversation...

all I'm suggesting is that all people should maintain an open mind.

I try to see points from all sides, being human, I can miss some. There are times when I've had to eat crow, keeps me on my toes. I learned about an open mind the hard way, so I just try to smooth the path as I go along.

O8)

[Township75]

4. I thought this was going to be about Kerry and NED Flanders!

My mistake.

[windansea]

33. LOL

feel free to comment!

[Donna Zen]

47. Four distinct branches of NED

1) Republicans (more about Chevez later)

2) Democrats

3) Business

4) Unions

A board oversees the money and the grants that each branch requests. NED was set up to do good because of the negative image of the US. And...they actually have done some good. Both Modale and Wellstone at one time participated in NED. Congress reviews and funds NED.

Both the Union branch and the Republican branch were implicated in the spring coup against Chevez. The Unions were supporting the opposing unions; however, it was found that they were not involved in any coup activities. The Republican branch had opened an office there that was to help democracy; however, the man who ran the office was implicated. Congress did investigate and found that the man involved was not acting on behalf of his NED activities. While I question that Congress was honest in its investigation considering that the repubs control the fucking government, the subject will be hard to prove.

That said, we do need honest support for emerging democracies. The Dem branch in the past has supported many programs for training and involving women in their country's political systems. They have supported dissendents and independent journalists.

NED probably needs to be completely restructured with better oversight, but the underlying concept is hardly the worst thing we are doing.

Note: This subject has been rehashed so many times that I refuse to find links that are not on the computer I'm using right now. Also, I located someone who once worked for NED and was very forthcoming. I asked him specifically about Chevez, and he clued me into the congressional investigation.

[revcarol]

49. Memory niggles...NED has been involved in several nefarious

coups/changes in government, but no, I can't pin it down from my memory of several years ago.

The impression I have from my memory is that THEY decide who is the "democratic person" or "party" and that it always comes out on the side of big business here.

Start flames now.Sorry I just can't remember specific events, but the whole taste is nasty.

[lazarus]

50. Some members of the board of the NED

Julie Finley
Council for Republicans: Founding Member
Republican Primary PAC: Chairperson and Founder
The WISH List (Women in the Senate and House): Founding Member
Council for Republican Environmental Advocacy (CREA): Founding Member
Republican Leadership Council: Member of Steering Committee
Committee for the Liberation of Iraq: Treasurer
U.S. Committee on NATO: Founding Board Member
Project on Transitional Democracies: Chairman of the Board of Directors
National Endowment for Democracy: Trustee
District of Columbia Republican Party Chairperson: 1992-2000
Host Committee for the Prague NATO Summit: Chairperson, November 2002

Vin Weber
Humphrey Institute: Senior Fellow; Co-Director of Policy Forum
National Endowment for Democracy: Chairman of the Board
Empower America: Co-Founder
George W. Bush Campaign: Adviser
Project for the New American Century: Letter on War on Terrorism: Signatory (2001)
Project for the New American Century: Letter to Gingrich and Lott on Iraq: Signatory (1998)
Project for the New American Century: Letter to President Clinton on Iraq: Signatory (1998)
Project for the New American Century: Statement of Principles: Signatory (1997)
Aspen Institute Domestic Strategy Group: Co-Chairman
Center of the American Experiment: Senior Fellow
German Marshall Fund: Member of Board of Trustees
National Public Radio: Member of the Board
Harvard University John F. Kennedy School of Government: Member of Visiting Committee
George Washington University National Council for Political Management: Member
Progress and Freedom Foundation: Former Senior Fellow
Senator Rudy Boshwitz Campaign: Manager and Chief Minnesota Aide (1978-1980)

National Commission on Public Service: Member
U.S. House of Representatives: Minnesota Congressman (1980-1992) Founder of Conservative Opportunity Society
U.S. Representative Tom Hagedorn: Press Secretary (1974-1976)
Minnesota State Republican Convention: Delegate (1972, 1978)

Bill Frist
Kitten Killer

Francis Fukuyama
Project for the New American Century: Founding member
National Endowment for Democracy: Member of Advisory Board
The National Interest: Member of the Editorial Board
Journal of Democracy: Member of the Editorial Board
The New America Foundation: Member of the Board of Directors
American Political Science Association: Member
Council on Foreign Relations: Member and Book Review Editor of Foreign Affairs
Pacific Council on International Policy: Member
Global Business Network: Invited Member
American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies: Member
George Mason University, School of Public Policy: Omer L. and Nancy Hirst Professor of Public Policy, 1996-2000
RAND Corporation: member of Political Science Department, 1979-1980, 1983-1989, 1995-1996
President’s Council on Bioethics: Member
Policy Planning Staff of the U.S. Department of State: Deputy Director for European Political-Military Affairs in 1989
Policy Planning Staff of the U.S. Department of State: Regular Member specializing in Middle East affairs, 1981-1982
U.S. Delegation to the Egyptian-Israeli talks on Palestinian autonomy: Member, 1981-1982

[Rose Siding]

51. Yesterday's Independent says of NED-

US revealed to be secretly funding opponents of Chavez

Washington has been channelling hundreds of thousands of dollars to fund the political opponents of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez - including those who briefly overthrew the democratically elected leader in a coup two years ago.

Documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that, in 2002, America paid more than a million dollars to those political groups in what it claims is an ongoing effort to build democracy and "strengthen political parties". Mr Chavez has seized on the information, telling Washington to "get its hands off Venezuela".

The revelation about America's funding of Mr Chavez's opponents comes as the president is facing a possible recall referendum and has been rocked by a series of violent street demonstrations in which at least eight people have died. His opponents, who include politicians, some labour leaders, media executives and former managers at the state oil company, are trying to collect sufficient signatures to force a national vote. The documents reveal that one of the group's organising the collection of signatures - Sumate - received $53,400 (£30,000) from the US last September.

Jeremy Bigwood, a Washington-based freelance journalist who obtained the documents, yesterday told The Independent: "This repeats a pattern started in Nicaragua in the election of 1990 when spent $20 per voter to get rid of Ortega. It's done in the name of democracy but it's rather hypocritical. Venezuela does have a democratically elected President who won the popular vote which is not the case with the US."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=500711

[windansea]

52. it's no secret

NED funding is public info and has been for 20 years

[windansea]

53. why don't you list the whole board?

there are several democrats as well,,it's bipartisan

[mobuto]

54. Uh, You forgot to list Wes Clark, Greg Meeks, Dick Holbrooke,

Evan Bayh, Tom Donahue (former President of the AFL-CIO), Matthew McCugh (former Democratic Congressman), Ralph Gerson, Lee Hamilton, Leon Lynch (of the United Steelworkers), Terence Todman, Howard Wolpe, etc.

The funny thing about bipartisan organizations is that they contain both Democrats and Republicans. So yes, some big bad Republicans are on the board, as well as a few great Democrats.

[lazarus]

55. I've listed them

elsewhere. Plenty of people here are making the case that this is bipartisan, I wanted to point out who, exactly, the people on the conservative side are representing. They're not standard Republicans, they're the PNAC branch.

And they're fairly high up on the board.

But whatever. FWIW, I was a strong Clark supporter, and voted for him here in California, since he was still on the ballot. I just want answers to all this.