Rall: the New Democrats

[Mairead]

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Sweet

Fuck him....I don't need Rall to tell me how I've spent my life...what an asshole

[Mairead]

2. What are you seeing that I'm not, NSMA?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. More mutiny from the left

someday, I hope to be pure enough to live with constant failure and wear it as success

[Capn Sunshine]

39. I KNEW we were in the Navy!

THAT'S what the party is now! Avast! Mutiny.........
I only wish I had gotten the memo

[KissMyAsscroft]

3. Rall subscribes to the n"no difference" meme, I take it.

Looks like it.

6. Probably

but this one looks like he's writing about certain of the supporters, not the candidate.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. I don't see him making any distinction amongst supporters

Looks like a pretty broad brush to me

8. I am

I'm saying "Certain" and giving Rall the benefit of the doubt on this one.
This one is in the eye of the beholder most likely.

[Eric J in MN]

5. tacky punchline

I don't care for the implication that people like myself who are determined to get Bush out of office largely because of his terrible civil liberties policy, would deny due process to people we don't like.

[boobooday]

9. Rall is an American Hero

He Rocks!

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[boobooday]

10. I think it is a slam at Repubs, not Dems

I think he is trying to say that we are finally fighting back against their stupid smears!

The punchline is another poke at the republicans. When the R character says, "we're exactly the same," the Dem takes that to its logical conclusion. The humor comes from the absurdity of the idea that a DEM president would ever put a dissenter into a camp.

I like it.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[DFLforever]

13. You do? I think it's ABB drawn to its illogical conclusion.

[JohnLocke]

11. What a pointless and divisive cartoon.

Just because the Democrats haven't chosen some "super-liberal" like Kucinich or Dean with "perfect" viewpoints doesn't make Kerry a bad candidate, "Bush light," or "not a true progressive." I used to support Edwards, and then when he dropped from the race, he endorsed what the people (not the media) have chosen as their representative, Senator Kerry. I support him now, and think some people here need to come to terms with their need for political perfection.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. I love Ted Rall

He knows the media chose Kerry and so do I. But I really think the cartoon is about how "united" the democrats are. At least that is what my DNC e-mail keeps telling me.

[JohnLocke]

15. Riddle me this --

Why would the media choose Kerry?

[Citizen Kang]

32. You tell me...

Only Fleet Bank has given more special interest money to John Kerry during his lifetime in politics than AOLTimeWarner.

14. It's about the Supporters

not the Senator or whether the Senator is a bad candidate.
It's about the tendency of certain supporters to get in lockstep.

[Wonk]

16. and you can see examples of that right here in this thread. nt

[Kanary]

19. Bingo

But, we just don't have on the right T-shirts.

:)

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

22. nt

:)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Yes...it's taboo and divisive to criticize Dean supporters but en vogue

to slam Kerry supporters...fuck that logic. No shortage of it in this thread, either.

33. not in my book

It's fine to criticize supporters of any candidate. (slight edit, I mean the views of supporters of candidates, I hope I made that clear despite my phrasing in this first sentence.)

I figure politics and discussion boards are places of "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"

I try to stick with criticizing positions of supporters whenever possible, however.

I realize it is sometimes a fine line between criticism of a position of a supporter and of the supporter & often what is thought to be a criticism of the position is interpreted as a criticism of the position-taker.

[Philostopher]

17. Just FYI,

at last count, Rall supported Dean, if I remember correctly, not Kucinich. Anybody who knows better, please feel free to update me -- that was the last I remember reading in his blog a couple of months ago, anyway.

It's not ideological purity per se that he's sending up in that cartoon -- I'm not sure if I like it or not, because he's probably trying to spank me, too -- and it's about what I'd expect of him. I don't think he ever thought much of Kerry, it's not inconsistent with his rhetoric so far.

He probably just thinks Kerry's an uneasy compromise -- for some of us, he is. I'll compromise uneasily rather than hand another four years to that bunch of lying thieves, though. Apparently, Rall won't. That's his concern, not mine.

[charlie]

20. Rall's voting for Kerry

He's just not bananas about the guy.

[Philostopher]

23. Wow, two things Rall and I have in common.

I live where he used to live, too! So he's really making fun of himself, too, if he's said that -- that does give the cartoon an entirely different spin.

[charlie]

25. I'm with the both of you

And since some folks here are wary of Ted's intentions:

http://www.rall.com/2004_02_01_archive.html#107747750763816598

[Julien Sorel]

18. We're doing it all wrong.

If Democrats want to win, the key is to convince large numbers of people who live in the most wealthy, powerful nation the world has ever known that what they need is radical change -- what we've been doing isn't working. A simple task, really.

The stupid wing of the Democratic Party.

The delusional wing of the Democratic Party.

The loser wing of the Democratic Party.


All fit.

[Kanary]

21. I'm with ya, Billy

"Leadership" is a lost concept.

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[Julien Sorel]

28. Yes, leadership is jamming a political ideology

down the throats of people who want no part of it, and aren't ready for it. All the great leaders in history were able to do this. FDR would have been able to enact the New Deal without the Depression as a catalyst, because he was just that damn good of a leader.

[Bombtrack]

24. Ted Rall is an utter scumbag. I truely wish I could get that bitch alone

The guy insults 9-11 families, basically calling them greedy, and writes columns advocating for Iraquis murdering our troops.

He represents the most discpicable and shun-worthy aspect of the left, along with nuts like Ramsey Clark and the INTERNATIONALANSWER morons

27. Jonathan Swift advocated cooking babies

and selling them to reduce the Irish famine.

I'm not saying that Rall is on the level of Swift, but any satirist gets under people's skin & Rall is a satirist.

[Bombtrack]

30. No, he isn't. He writes opinion columns. Really idiotic opinion columns

He's untalanted, and without original thought. He lives on the sordid, vicious, fringe. And he is a fucking dick. And he really shows his distaste for the country in which he was born on a regular basis.

31. I guess

hmmm let me see

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=satire&x=12&y=15


One entry found for satire.

Main Entry: sat·ire
Pronunciation: 'sa-"tIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin satura, satira, perhaps from (lanx) satura dish of mixed ingredients, from feminine of satur well-fed; akin to Latin satis enough -- more at SAD
1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
synonym see WIT

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=satire&x=16&y=13

One entry found for satire.


Entry Word: satire
Function: noun
Text: humorous ridicule often used to convey rebuke or criticism or to expose folly or vice <a brilliant writer noted for her satire>
Synonyms lampoonery, raillery, satiricalness
Related Word banter, chaffing; causticity, irony; mockery, ridicule; pasquinade, persiflage, squib; parody, spoof, spoofery, takeoff

********
Sounds like opinion to me

[jpgray]

37. When he wanted to disenfranchise all primary voters, was that satire?

His boy was Dean, Dean lost, Rall feels like crap about it. He expresses this feeling in a series of increasingly shrill cartoons. No pall on Dean, but this guy wanting to cancel the primaries was about the most idiotic piece I'd ever read.

[Atlant]

34. And after that, you expect me to support your guy Kerry?

(Speaking as a someone who actually thinks that International ANSWER at least had
the 'nads to stand up and say what Kerry was unwilling to say: This war was wrong.
I suppose that makes me a moron in your eyes.)

Atlant

[Bombtrack]

42. Yeah, I think Stalinism supporters who bash America are morons

And Kerry isn't "my guy". I supported Clark

[w4rma]

26. I think this Rall cartoon is illogical.

Camp? what?
Osama bin Ladan as VP? what?

[Eric J in MN]

45. The idiotic premise of the cartoon is that Democrats

The idiotic premise of the cartoon is that Democrats hate Republicans so much that they want to put all Republicans in detenetion-camps. Idiotic.

[jpgray]

35. Rall's kind of a nutjob--wanted to cancel the primaries

But he won't make a cartoon about how he believed no one should get a chance to vote for their candidate.

[w4rma]

36. ??? That doesn't sound like Rall to me, jpgray. (n/t)

[jpgray]

38. Here you go. This really pissed me off

CANCEL THE PRIMARIES
Time for Democrats to Rally Around Dean

NEW YORK--Barring some unforeseeable misstep, Gov. Howard Dean will be the Democratic nominee. Patrick Buchanan thinks so. So does Al Gore, who acknowledged Dean's soar in the polls with this endorsement: "Whether it is inspiring enthusiasm at the grassroots, and promising to remake the Democratic Party as a force for justice and progress and good in America," said President Gore, "whether it is a domestic agenda that gets our nation back on track, or whether it is protecting us against terrorists and strengthening our nation in the world, I have come to the conclusion that one candidate clearly now stands out."

<snip>

The outcome of the Democratic primaries is now a foregone conclusion. Why should Dean and his fellow Democrats waste more than $100 million between them--some estimates rise as high as $150 million--to beat each other up over relatively minor differences of policy and tone? The DNC ought to read the business pages. Ours is an age of monopoly and amalgamation. Bigger wins over better except when better happens to also be big. Divided Democrats can't beat unified Republicans.

COPYRIGHT 2003 TED RALL

http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/?uc_full_date=20031209

[Capn Sunshine]

40. sigh......sarcasm is a lost art

:nuke:

[jpgray]

41. You believe the article to be sarcasm?

I believe when this debuted on DU, you weren't singing that tune then. Shall I do a search?

[jpgray]

43. I thought not. Anyway, here's the original thread.

As you can see, it was taken quite seriously, by supporters of every candidate.

[legin]

44. Thank goodness i didn't post in that thread

'cause I had exactly the same idea too. :evilgrin:

I think you are too hard on Ted Rall, because that article sort of reflected the time of the Dean-Clarke wars which i thought was getting self distructive. The actual primaries were a surprising complete walk in the park compared to what went on before.

And saving the money for bush* was a good idea too.

The fact that my candidate was going to win had absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever. ;-)

[Capn Sunshine]

48. I Thought it was sarcasm then. It seemed like Swiftian in its tone

But twist away, you really think Dean and all his followers should just leave the party don't you?

[jpgray]

49. Dean is great. His supporters recognized this as a serious article

You are trying to spin away from it because you like Rall and you want to maintain his credibility. Outright distorting an article and the author's intent is something neither Dean nor his supporters agree with.

What part was sarcastic? When he said everyone should get behind Dean? When he said Gore's endorsement meant a lot? What areas did you find particularly amusing, or as evidence of Rall's Swiftian wit? Quote them, please, and answer these questions, or admit you are spinning like a top and tying yourself in knots to explain the article as something it is clearly not. Face it--Rall advocated canceling the primaries, not in satire, but in full sincerity.

[Capn Sunshine]

47. Oh yes. By all means do.

I'm curious what I said then too.

[Democat]

46. Rall needs to move on, Dean fucking lost

Kerry got more votes, time to stop attacking the Democrats and spend his energy on Bush.

Someone should make a comic called, "The Same Old Greens" and put a picture of Tedd Rall helping Bush get elected in 2000 and again in 2004.