What is Dean doing for Kerry?

[littlejoe]

I see where General Clark and his wife are out, actively campaigning for Senator Kerry.

John Edwards is campaigning for Kerry, and has directed more than one hundred of his largest contributors to Kerry's support.

What is Howard Dean doing? I know he and Kerry met. According to Dean, they focused more on their differences. Dean also said that he was going to do everything he could to make sure that the candidate was held to "progressive" values.

What does that mean exactly?

Does it mean he will wholeheartedly campaign for John Kerry? Or does it mean that he is going to play hardball with the nominee?

[Dookus]

1. He's setting up his own organization

right now. But I have no doubt the good doctor will do all he can to help Kerry get elected.

His organization will coincide nicely with Kerry's campaign, I'm sure.

[Kathleen04]

2. Yep, his organization debuts on March 18th

It'll be interesting to see what they've come up with. :)

[Guaranteed]

75. Don't forget Meet the Press this morning- DEAN VS. RICE nt

[Kathleen04]

3. Last weekend I saw him on C-Span speaking

at a Democratic dinner event; it wasn't solely for or about Kerry, but he had alot of positive things to say.

I'm sure they discussed plans when they met together the other day.

[madfloridian]

4. You misquoted Dean.

He has repeatedly said he will do whatever he could to get Kerry elected. Yes, he did say that about progressive values. It is part of the new organization guidelines. Think about it, and you will see what he means. He will call them on it if they do not stand up the right wing.

I like your statement on playing hardball with the nominee. Yes, I think he will.

Do NOT be critical of him or us. It is counterproductive right now when so many of us are trying to figure how to handle things. You know, like welcome to the party, give us your money and your vote...then disappear. That kind of thing. I am posting Dean's statement below on the meeting.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
John Kerry and I had a very good meeting yesterday. During the campaign we often focused on what divided us, but the truth is we have much more in common beginning with our fervent desire to send George Bush back to Crawford, Texas in November. The future of our country depends on this.

In addition to our strong commitment to turning this country around by beating George Bush, John and I also share a strong commitment to providing healthcare to every American, cleaning up and protecting our environment, and getting the 3 million Americans who lost their jobs during George Bush's presidency back to work.

As I have previously said, I will work closely with John Kerry to make sure we beat George Bush in November and turn our country around. There is a lot we can do together to rebuild an America that belongs to all of us, and we'll be saying more about what our amazing grassroots network can do to help with this goal on March 18.

Sincerely,

Governor Howard Dean M.D.

[Guaranteed]

5. Seriously.

I'm sorry, Littlejoe, but what you just did was disgusting. You need to get your shit straight.

On edit: I can't believe what you're trying to do. You're HURTING Kerry. You know that?

[littlejoe]

13. Touchy, touchy! Explain just how I am hurting Kerry.

If what I have to say affects anyone's support for Kerry, then two things are wrong. There must not have been support there, in the first place. And second, they need to grow up, and focus on the man, not the supporters.

[madfloridian]

21. Grow up?

Ok.

[bitchkitty]

84. So as a Kerry supporter,

you have no culpability if you insult someone to the point where they won't vote for Kerry? Like it or not, the man will be judged by his supporters, especially here.

I'm goddamned sick and tired of threads that tell me what Dean needs to do, and worse, what I need to do. I don't need to do anything but vote in November, which I intend to do. I know how I'm going to vote, and nobody, including rude-ass people, can sway me.

[benddem]

6. He's given Kerry his fundraising lists

THAT IS A BIG DEAL.

[madfloridian]

7. No, he has not.

Please will you guys get your facts straight. He said he will work the lists himself.

[NewHampster]

8. madfloridian don't you hate how they speak first

then maybe correct the mistakes or maybe not.

sounds an awlful lot like folks on the other side of the isle.



:shrug:

[madfloridian]

18. Like the media, say what they want loudly....then correct in tiny letters.

Or maybe never correct it.

:hi:

22. Theres an old saying

Its easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission

[lojasmo]

9. Yawn, Meme

What is Kerry doing for Kerry?

Yawn.

I am now a registered Democrat for the first time. My wife, formerly a registered republican, is now a registered Democrat. I am a precinct chair, and my wife is a delegate. This is just a small example of what Howard Dean has done for the Democratic party, and for John Kerry.

[Guaranteed]

11. You're right...

That's just one, small thing. I can think of hundreds more things that Dean has done for John Kerry, and ALL Democrats, including earning back our self-respect.

[littlejoe]

14. As John Stossel says, "Give me a break!"

[madfloridian]

32. John Stossel? Tell me you are kidding.

:evilgrin:

[edzontar]

78. You mean John Stossel-- the Repuke wingnut corporate mouthpiece?

Give ME a break!!!!1

Please!!!!!

[JNelson6563]

82. the sources of their quotes is revealing

Always worth noting. ;-)

[edzontar]

102. Duly noted.

Stossel. Who is next? Mike Medved?

[littlejoe]

112. I quote people from all stripes. Some people call that a

well rounded education. You might look into it sometime.

[edzontar]

120. Stossel is a wingnut fuck.

You should not quote him, IMHO.

[madfloridian]

123. You should do some research on Stossel.

Here is a very good start for you:

http://www.fair.org/search/search.cgi?Match=0&Realm=All&Terms=stossel

That is not a well-rounded education type of guy. Sorry, but he has no credibility.

[Comadreja]

10. Seems to an argument here

But for the life of me I can't figure out where.:shrug:

[DFLforever]

12. I don't think Dean will do anything until he's endorsed Kerry

and he hasn't done that yet. They've just started talks.

And contray to what you say, Dean emphasized their similarities after their March 10 meeting:

John Kerry and I had a very good meeting yesterday. During the campaign we often focused on what divided us, but the truth is we have much more in common beginning with our fervent desire to send George Bush back to Crawford, Texas in November. The future of our country depends on this.

In addition to our strong commitment to turning this country around by beating George Bush, John and I also share a strong commitment to providing healthcare to every American, cleaning up and protecting our environment, and getting the 3 million Americans who lost their jobs during George Bush's presidency back to work

http://www.deanforamerica.com

[littlejoe]

15. I looked at the website, and I read the letter.

When he said that they often focused on their differences, it means that they spent a great deal of time focusing on differences, period.

[madfloridian]

16. Little Joe, please read this sentence just quoted to you.

SNIP..."During the campaign we often focused on what divided us, but the truth is we have much more in common beginning with our fervent desire to send George Bush back to Crawford, Texas in November."

They focused on differences *during the campaign*.

[littlejoe]

19. Fine. But my questions are these: Does anyone know just what was

said in the meeting, and just what exactly is Dean going to do for Kerry?

[madfloridian]

20. No, not really.

I have the impression that Dean will meet with Kerry again on the 25th. ....don't know why that date. I have the feeling he will endorse him then.

Now, that said, a lot of people became Democrats because of Dean,and because of who he is. They were not Democrats before.

It is a touchy situation. We have a lot in our area like that. Dean supporters in huge numbers have asked that their info not be given or sold. If he does so, and if he promises the resources of his supporters......then a lot will just leave. If he handles it properly, they will stay and work within the new organization. They will probably, some of them or most, support Kerry financially.

This is an unusual situation. I would not believe it if I did not seen people like that in our own group. This is probably not something Dean expected to happen, but it did. The fact that we know the Democrats on TV and in private have hurt his campaign, has made many very leery of what lies ahead.

Trust me, a lot will vote Democrat this time who don't usually...even with Dean out. BUT they will not if he "promises" them to someone else.

You can be critical of this situation, and you can make fun of it. This is not a matter of blind devotion, it is a matter of sudden awakening to what the Democratic Party has become.

When Dean supporters are called fools and idiots and banned from the DNC forum, I really don't see how the "party" can expect too much loyalty.

50. The way Dean is handling the post campaign

is more than honorable. means by which to deal with a fact that Dean warned of early on--that much of his support is non-transferable. Dean's grabbing this bull by the horns is damn smart.

If Dean were only self-interrested, he would exploit the non-transferability tendency among his supporters.

If Dean were naive or foolish, he would simply give up the golden goose, and the ability of the goose to lay the golden eggs, by turning his supporter list over to Kerry or the DNC.

But Dean has shown himself to be both honorable and savy. He'll keep the list of non-transferables, work that list, and deliver support to Kerry--just as he always promissed--ensuring everyone gets a bit of what they wanted out of the arrangement.

Think what you like about Dean, but before you speak against him think twice. He has more principle in his left thumbnail than most politicians see in a lifetime.

Anyone

[madfloridian]

59. I don't think Dean had a clue how many he would draw in from outside.

I really don't think he did. When he said that, he did not mean it as a threat, really. He was making a statement. Yes, there are a lot who have no loyalty as Democrats...because they aren't.

23. Fine? That it?

You took a quote out of context, used it to knock Dean, and when you have it shown to you all you can say is "Fine" ???

I'm not sure that anyone would want to answer your question under those circumstances. Would YOU?

[Cheswick2.0]

72. Why should he do anything for Kerry?

After the filthy campaign Kerry ran, Dean has shown enormous class not calling him on his behavior. It says a lot about Dean's commitment to get rid of bush.

[WyLoochka]

126. It isn't what Dean is going to do for

Kerry - it's what he is going to do for the country. This is not Kerry's country. He is just the newly elected captain of the Democrats. One works for the team - not the individual, silly.

You should ask - what is Dean going to do for the team? My answer - he'll accomplish a helluva lot more for the team than the few people with your attitude do, littlejoe. The demanding, whining, negativity round the clock is not effective, nor is it helpful.

[madfloridian]

127. Good clear statement.

Thanks.

[Cheswick2.0]

71. lol

:7

[RetroLounge]

17. It's good to see how much you miss Howard Dean

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[w13rd0]

24. Quoting littlejoe..

..."Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean"

shees, please tell me you aren't actually a Kerry supporter so I can somehow see the rationalization of this pointless flamethrowing you seem to be so fond of.

you "won", get over it already.

talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

[littlejoe]

27. Hey, support Kerry, or don't support him. Frankly, I don't

care. I want people who can get behind my candidate, not people who whine and cry, and are dragged kicking and screaming because he isn't "progressive" enough.

Progressive. I'm getting sick of the word. Around here it has taken on the connotation of "radical."

Well, Kerry isn't a fire-breathing radical. He is however the most liberal senator in Washington. If that's not good enough for you, then start your own third or fourth party, or whatever.

I've been a democrat for more than four decades, through thick and thin. I've seen the best and the worst. I'm proud to call John Kerry my candidate.

As for the rest of the "so-called" democratic leadership, I would imagine that their constituents will take care of that problem for us.

If Howard Dean thinks that he can remake the face of the Democratic party in his own image, then he really is on an ego trip. The people spoke loud and clear, and excuse me, but Howard is the odd man out.

I've seen movements rise and fall, and I would be surprised to see the Dean phenomenon around two years from now.

The way I see it, he is desperately trying to hold on to the last vestages of what little power he has left.

[dsc]

66. and I want people who

both know what they are talking about and accurately state facts. Clearly you have a problem with one or the other.

[Le Taz Hot]

76. Excuse me?

"Kerry is the most liberal Senator in Washington."

Oh, tell me you did NOT just say that! I swear, what passes as knowledge around here these days simply boggles the mind. But hey, DU got enough donations and goddess knows THAT was the most important thing, heh? :puke:

[littlejoe]

114. I think it is quite obvious that your mind is boggled. But not

because of anything I may have said.

[Le Taz Hot]

129. You've been involved in politics

for what, 5 minutes? Put in another 30 years on the INSIDE, then we can begin to speak on equal footing.

[littlejoe]

113. I haven't thrown any flames in over two weeks, as you like

to call it, when someone questions the candidate you are so fond of.

Politics is hardball, buddy. If you're not up to it, may I suggest you play trivial persuit, or it THAT too hard of a game for you also?

[slinkerwink]

25. LOL! Dean's the whipping boy to some of you, like Clinton is to the Repugs

[janx]

26. C'est le meme chose.

;-)

[littlejoe]

29. That picture of "superdean" that you display sure tells me I'm right.

[slinkerwink]

33. I still support Dean, and I will cast my vote for Kerry in November

get on with the program, dude...

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[littlejoe]

115. Dean did a good enough job of whipping himself. He didn't need

any help from yours truly.

[madfloridian]

125. Two things I want you to do.

Go to www.c-span.org and find Dean's speech to the Pre-Gridiron luncheon. Listen to it.

The 2nd thing is to watch MTP tonight on CNBC at 10 PM EST.

Then say those things again. This man deserves more respect from you, and your candidate would not like your being this way.

Dean said good things about Kerry today, and you need to cool it.

[Julien Sorel]

28. He already did everything he needed to do.

Besides running a hideously inept campaign, thus pissing away a commanding position in the race and tens of millions of dollars, Dean also gave Kerry his 'spine.' Remember, until Dean, no Democrat had ever thought of criticizing one's opponent during a campaign. That was a gift Dean gave not just to Kerry, but to the world -- politics will never be the same.

[madfloridian]

30. Well, there is nothing to say to that now, is there.

You just have it all wrapped up in one neat package.

You just forgot a few little things that our leaders have allowed to happen lately:

An illegal invasion in Iraq. No apologies for votes to do it.

A horrible Medicare bill which they could have stopped. In fact though Kennedy now seems appalled, he did enable it.

Huge tax cuts which are draining this country's economy.

A rather large deficit.

A NCLB bill which will cause every public school in America to be failing by 2013.

Social Security is next on the table, not just to be "fixed", but to be destroyed.

There are a few other things, but that will do for now.

Dean DID cause them to start speaking out. There is no way on earth anyone can deny that.

You really posted an insulting post.

[janx]

31. There are people who consider posting insults on internet

boards a kind of sport.

The topic, the contents, the lack of substance does not matter.

[littlejoe]

35. Substance DOES matter. That's why the good people of

Iowa and Hew Hampshire soundly rejected Howard Dean.

[janx]

37. There is no substance to this thread. It's a lot of

chest thumping and baiting. Nothing more.

[littlejoe]

116. Then if you are such a person of "substance," may I suggest you

try a less offensive thread?

[Le Taz Hot]

77. And the difference between

the current version of DU and FR is . . . what was that again? I keep forgetting.

[JNelson6563]

83. It highlights their inability

to get along in the real world, hence the residence in cyber-space.

I hear hate-mongering is profitable on the radio, I think many a DUer could have future there....

Julie

[littlejoe]

117. I don't hate Dean. I'm just pissed off because he's a

charleton, and the freaking Deanie-babies around this forum act like the man is God. Quit acting like the stepford wives and join the real world.

[Julien Sorel]

48. I see. So all these things happened because

Democrats lack a 'spine,' and had the Democrats opposed these things (like the Iraq invasion, which was wildly popular at the time), Americans would have been fine with it. The success and popularity of the politicians (Kucinich and Dean, for example), who publicly adopted some of the positions you espouse is an example of how well this strategy would work, and how desperately Democrats need to embrace it. Simply brilliant!


You really posted an insulting post.

Flattery is nice, but the quality of the rest of your post tends to vitiate its value. Think of the saying, 'consider the source.'

[madfloridian]

53. I just got it! I do get it. Mr. Bunter, you said it right just now.

That is exactly how this party got where it is now. Instead of standing up and pointing out the president was lying.....it was easier to send our boys to war!!

You just said that in your post. That is exactly why we are in the mess we are in this country. It was not popular to speak up.

Mister Bunter, you just said a mouthful. You just hit the nail on the head.

Don't make waves, don't rock the boat. Just vote the easy way.

And when you say "consider the source", that is you saying I am unworthy. Thank you very much.

Here is what you said, and you are so right:
"had the Democrats opposed these things (like the Iraq invasion, which was wildly popular at the time), Americans would have been fine with it. The success and popularity of the politicians (Kucinich and Dean, for example), who publicly adopted some of the positions you espouse is an example of how well this strategy would work, and how desperately Democrats need to embrace it. Simply brilliant!"

You are right....telling the truth...calling the president and his bunch out on their lies...that would not have been popular.

[Julien Sorel]

62. And popularity wins elections, and winning elections

is necessary in order to implement policy. Of course, the rest of your nonsense isn't what Kerry and the rest did -- they picked their fights like smart people do, and a look at the results shows that they picked wisely. Fighting on every single issue is for kiddies and the marginalized.

You don't got it, and you probably won't got it for another 10 years or so. The Republicans do got it though. They learned the hard way to got it -- by getting their asses kicked for most of the 20th century, while bright boys within their party pointed out how correct their policies were, kind of like you do now.

[madfloridian]

63. And everyone just plays nice, and suddenly your picture is reality.

You know we can not just keep doing that. When Kucinich and Ritter worked together before the war, they made some difference. Later, when Dean began speaking out, it made a little difference.

Pretty soon, after he just kept on saying the war was wrong, people started to listen. It made more difference.

But our soldiers are still dead.

I can understand enough to vote for Kerry, I would not let that one issue deter me. However, the purpose of two parties is for them to hold each other accountable.

You can play nice, or you can stand up and fight back. The latter is necessary now, desperately needed.

Oh, I get it.

[Julien Sorel]

64. 'Playing nice' is your phrase -- not mine.

I don't 'play nice;' I play to win, which means playing smart. So does Kerry, and so do the Republicans. There are some Democrats, from the loser wing of the party, however, who play to lose, and hide behind meaningless rhetoric about 'spines' and 'backbones.' That's stupid, and it led to the ruin of a certain sawed off little red-faced man, but hey, it sure felt good to watch him run his mouth and beat his chest, didn't it.

[madfloridian]

65. I gather you are saying that Dean and his supporters are losers.

I am sad you feel that way. He did give me a lot of backbone to start being activist in the party. He really did. That "sawed off red-faced man" has honor and courage.

This is so sad to see you do this to us. It really is.

[edzontar]

79. So you are saying it is justified to send troops to DIE FOR NOTHING

If it helps a candidate win an election?

Just wanted to get that straight.....is that what you are saying?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[littlejoe]

36. The truth hurts, and you just can't get over it.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmyStrange]

40. So true...

and I'm not talking about LittleJoe specifically, but some people here in the DU just like being mean. They have no real interest in really helping to get Kerry elected. Being mean is their whole reason for living. Kerry is just their latest excuse to pound on people. They are NOT "real" Kerry Supporters.

Here's a ((((HIG)))) to all "real" Kerrys supporters. We know none of you would ever be mean, because you know that will only hurt Kerry's chances in Nov.

And if Kerry loses in Nov, the mean people won't care. They'll just find something else as an excuse to beat up on people. Propbably, the people who they think helped Kerry lose.

So !!! VOTE FOR KERRY !!! so they can find something else to get mean about and maybe if we're lucky they'll move to another board,



For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/




Serial Killer Cafe...
and searchable missing person news archives:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org /
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe /




For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org /

Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org /




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
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(EDITED: forgot my sig hehehe)

[janx]

41. Can I have a hig too?

(Sorry. I couldn't resist! It just looked so funny!) ;-)

[madfloridian]

42. Here's a big hig for you.

:pals:

[janx]

44. Oh, thank you! I so enjoy big higs!

And now I have one!

[AmyStrange]

46. Thanx everyone...

Higs are Big Hugs all in one

((((HIGz))))

d

[janx]

49. That's even *better*! n/t

[madfloridian]

54. LOL

Back at you. :pals:

[rasputin1952]

47. LOL...

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

A Whole Lotta Higs!

O8)

[littlejoe]

122. I'm glad you didn't single me out, Amy. Because nothing could be

further from the truth. I'm out campaigning for my man. He is our nominee, and requires, no, demands support from everyone, now.

So, if I question Dean's lack of support of Kerry to this point, maybe it is because I'm obsessed, yes that's right, OBSESSED with getting that murderous, lying, thieving scum out of the White House.

A lot of people around here have some very sensitive feelings and get them hurt way too easily. It's not my job to be deferrential to anyone here, least of all any losing candidate.

If the people wanted Dean, instead of Kerry, you wouldn't hear me crying. The same goes for Kucinich, Gephardt or any one else.

They are democrats, and I would support them.

Trust me, I've been on the losing ends of a few elections among democratic primary candidates in my time. But I have never wallowed in self-pity as a result.

I'm not really an asshole. It's just that sometimes I can be one. Especially when I am attacked personally, because of my perceptions of certain candidates.

[madfloridian]

124. You must have missed MTP, Little Joe. He did good for your man.

I have the transcript up in this thread. He was quite good natured about Kerry, and he did a good job speaking about him.

You seem to want a blood oath, and that is just not Democratic.

I fully intend to vote for Kerry. Most of us do. Some won't because they were not Democrats to begin with.

They will go 3rd party without Dean to vote for.

[littlejoe]

56. deleted

[littlejoe]

57. I'm not the one suffering delusions, my friend.

[littlejoe]

58. deleted

[madfloridian]

39. Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean

If he were such a lousy candidate, so totally worthless, so awful, so bad, so unworthy of being a Democrat.....then why are you even asking what he will do?

If he were that bad he would not have enough supporters to help anyone anyway, in fact that has been said on this thread.

Tell you what, if Dean is so so so horrible, and his supporters are fools, then just don't worry about him or us. Don't bother asking what we will do, because it won't matter.

A lot of us here have made moves to be nice, and to let others know we would be supportive of the party. It does not seem to matter. Dean folks are just as banned at the DNC forums, and they are just as much made fun of....even if some of us are trying. We are still insulted in our trying. I even wrote a letter to an editor in defense of Kerry's speaking out. Did it matter? No.

The outline of his plan is up at the home page. It is an outstanding platform, and any party should be proud of it.

Oh, did I say Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean?

[AmyStrange]

51. ((((HIGz))))

for you and all the Deanies (and everyone else) who are trying real hard, but still getting slapped down,

d

[AmyStrange]

43. Talk to us after Dean's appearance on MTP tommorrow...

and after his talk on the 18th in Seattle and San Francisco and somewhere on the 19th I can't remember off the top of my head... sorry.

Don't you think he'll say something about Kerry?

Personally, I'd rather have him attack Bush and his lies. And remember Dean can only play hardball with Kerry if Kerry allows him to do it.





For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
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Serial Killer Cafe...
and searchable missing person news archives:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org /
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe /




For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org /

Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org /




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe /

[janx]

45. Thanks for the reminder, Dave.

:hi:

[AmyStrange]

52. Can I get a ((((HIGz))))...

:hi:

d

sniff thanx

[janx]

55. Here are *several*

((HIGz))

And thanks so much!

[Nazgul35]

60. And people said I was crazy..

when I suggested that some would blame Dean and his supporters if Kerry loses this election...

So begins the set up...if Kerry doesn't win in November, looks like the Greens will have some company for the next four years...

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

61. You are right. It is setting up that way.

Read posts #37 and 48.

Most of us have indicated we will vote for Kerry and not criticize him. In fact, I don't do that.

However, that is not enough. Dean must actively campaign for him or risk wrath, and he is being criticized for desiring to set up a progressive organization. Dean has SAID he will work to get Kerry elected. But it not fast enough or good enough.

Hey, the DLC is ok with folks. Why not DFA, Democracy, Freedom, and Action.

[Capn Sunshine]

67. Well the truth hurts

and when the bandwagon crumbles in the dust, these selfsame prophets of all that is wise ( I really liked the revision of the 20th century! That was SO inept I can't --won't -- even reply) as there is an example of revisonism , shining brightly, as is the shiny new candidate who still for some unknown reason, has followers that feel compelled, no DRIVEN, to browbeat those that do not see things their way into submission. The actual reason this goes on of course , is this place is a goddammned echo chamber, as all the intellect has fled for elsewhere, leaving vapid pontificating gasbags and drama queens behind , that just have to stick the blade in and twist , as there is still some softness in the corpse.

Bus Stations downtown get really lonely around midnight and that is what DU resembles more and more. The transients survey the scenery, and rather than recognize anyone worthy has left for suburbia, and the drunks are all passed out, they congratulate themselves on the fine job they did cleaning this place up.

Funny how an echo passes for a solid broadcast in the midnight fog.

http://www.peopleforchange.net <---greener pastures

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Capn Sunshine]

111. Got to you didn't it

shoe fits pretty good, "sanctimonious" LOL!!!
pathetic attempts to smear a good democrat are very telling of one's true agenda,and no matter whatthey say on the Ponderosa, attempts to divide the party for ulterior motives such as the success of incumbents are just that.

Yee HAW, cowpoke!

[Spirochete]

68. Leading up to another Dean bash, I see?

What's the longest period of time you've managed to stave off this obsession and avoid posting Deanophobic stuff?

[Cheswick2.0]

69. What are you doing for Kerry?

LOL

[Zynx]

70. Your initial post has factual flaws.

"According to Dean, they focused more on their differences" This is EXACTLY the opposite of what he said. Apparently, your hatred of Dean is so much that you can not read properly.

[edzontar]

80. Why are you trying to sow divison at a time when unity should be the goal?

I don't see how your post does anything to help the cause you claim to support....

[JNelson6563]

81. Narrow vision misunderstands picture~~as always

Buck up Johnnie! Dean knows there is more than one race to be one in this country.

Remember Kerry's uselessness during the rise of fascism? So does Dean, see? How much will Kerry get done with a Repug Congress? About nothing. Some of us, Dean included, are focusing on a bigger picture and that is taking back the country from top to bottom.

If we work hard enough at it we may never have to vote for the lesser of two evils again! Here's hopin'!

:toast:

Julie

[salin]

85. More from the... let's keep folks divided and fighting...

camp. Counterproductive. Waste of time. And humorous - given the oft simultaneous pleas (from the same crowd) wondering why so many continue to waste so much time in these kinds of spatty threads.

We really shouldn't be using the "divide and conquer" methods upon ourselves.

[last1standing]

130. Always a breath of sanity, Salin

It's good to see there are people like you still here.

[edzontar]

86. Dean spoke eloquently in support of Kerry on MTP this morning!!!

Is it finally time to retire this calumny against a great Democrat?

[molly]

87. Too many bridges?

or something like that

[slinkerwink]

88. I realize it's morning and you might just have woken up, but your post

doesn't make any sense.

[molly]

89. Yes - it does

Dean burned too many bridges. P.S. I've been up since 5:30AM.

[slinkerwink]

90. DEANOPHOBIA!

You poor thing, not realizing that Dean spoke out in Kerry's favor today......still on the same old tactic of dividing and conquering among Democrats instead of fostering unity in here.

[molly]

91. What would expect him to do - he LOST!!!

[slinkerwink]

93. He may have lost the primaries, but he's still winning by speaking out

against Bush and helping Dems retain their seats in Congress. By the way, the cure for DEANOPHOBIA consists of relaxing. Your guy got in, ours didn't. So, please stop antagonizing people in here.

[madfloridian]

99. No, he did not lose; and neither did we.

His voice and ours have not lost. He was no loser on MTP today, he was a winner. He did Kerry a lot of favors there, too. You should watch catch the repeat tonight, probably on CNBC.

No, maam, we are not losers. He is not a loser.

[Guaranteed]

100. If Kerry wins, he can thank Dean for winning

the election for us.

[molly]

108. Please explain? How?

[Guaranteed]

109. Dean exposed Bush for the liar that he was

when no one else was willing to do it.

Why won't you give credit where it's due? You're playing dumb, when you really should be thanking Dean.

Dean's doing what he can for Kerry, now. He knows the primary campaign is over, and has let it go. You need to let it go, too.

Dean supporters have opened their minds and given Kerry another opportunity to lead- which he has been doing. You, also, should open your mind.

[edzontar]

101. He did exactly what I ALWAYS knew he would do in these circumstances

Why can't you just lighten up and help us unite to beat Bush?

I thought that is what you guys wanted....right?

I live in PA, and I am sure that Kerry wants--needs--my vote.

I am ready to do what it takes--why are you trying to discourage me/us?

[Duder]

92. Hopefully, Dean's keeping Mr. Boring...

...awake.

[janx]

95. He's keeping US awake!

That's what is important now, yes? :hi:

[Duder]

96. You betcha...

It's a rare man who says that his real interest is the welfare of the people and means it...

[janx]

97. "The UnNader"--

Perfect!

http://www.peopleforchange.net

[madfloridian]

98. Duder, what a magnificent article. Dean, the UnNader.

That is a powerful article.
Thanks for sharing.
:hi:

[madfloridian]

104. This part of the article is right on!

SNIP...."Nader says he wants to make a point, but I suspect you would prefer to change policy. He will be satisfied with some twisted Pyrrhic victory; you want an actual one. It's a rare man who says that his real interest is the welfare of the people and means it, even if there's not much personal gain associated. Maybe you are that man....."

SNIP..."Unlike most catalyst candidates, who make things happen and then disappear, you could use your influence to bring young people to the polls, to convince them that what happens in the Oval Office really will affect their lives and that they have a stake in affecting the outcome. You could convince like-minded independents that there is a real difference between the two parties and point out where their true interests lie.

Neither of those groups believes in altruism in politics. Hell, no one believes in altruism in politics. But wouldn't it be all of a piece with your historic insurgent candidacy if you created a historic altruistic role? There probably wouldn't be anything in it for you except the knowledge that you'd done something important for what you believed. But actually witnessing a politician doing that might rev up the voters just as much as your strange and improbable campaign did."END SNIP

[chocolateeater]

105. That was great, thank you. n/t

[mzmolly]

118. Duder...this is worthy of a thread.

Thanks... I may post if you don't.

[ScreamingMeemie]

103. I don't see where he *has to* actively campaign for Kerry. If I

were a candidate who didn't get the nod I would support the nominee but not necessarily campaign for him. They have a different set of ideologies. I like the idea that Dean is going to hold the party to progressive values. That's enough for me. I'll vote for Kerry in November, Dean doesn't have to tell me that. :hi:

[madfloridian]

106. Well said.

He will actively campaign for a party that stands up and speaks out.

:hi:

[Guaranteed]

107. Dean supporters know leadership

when they see it. If Kerry shows it, he'll get our votes.

[Forkboy]

110. More than threads like this are

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

119. Dean is supporting the Democratic party...that is enough for me

[mzmolly]

121. What is Howard Dean doing for HIS COUNTRY?

That is the real question.

The answer is: PLENTY!

:hi:

[lojasmo]

128. I'm being pissed on

And I'm being told by the creator of this post (and other Kerry 'supporters") that it's raining.

Grow up.

Dean has brought many uninvolved people into the process.

Dean had the courage to call the administration to the carpet when others in the 2004 primary were still bowing and scraping, doing what was politically expedient for themselves.

Without Dean's leadership by example, the level of national debate wouldn't be where it is now.

Dean, on MTP today harshly criticized the administration, and painted the difference that John Kerry will make "when John Kerry becomes president on january twentieth"

I vote we let this thread die. It's crap.

[Moderator]

131. Locking......

The author is no longer with us.


DU Moderator