Thank you, Spain - Kerry was right about the world supporting him

[Paragon]

Spain Floods Voting Booths After Attacks
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040314/ap_on_re_eu/spain_1

MADRID, Spain - Driven by anger over Spain's worst terror attack, voters flooded polling stations Sunday, many vowing to punish the government for backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq and making their country a target for al-Qaida...

[IndianaGreen]

1. Kucinich voted against the war, and he will bring the troops home pronto!

I don't see why Kerry is now being hailed as the Messiah about an issue in which he has been, and continues to be, dead wrong!

The UN and NATO have no more business in Iraq than we do, particularly when they are being asked to shed blood to protect our corporate interests.

[Paragon]

2. What, no Green boards you can post at?

Oh, and Kerry's the nominee. Accept it, already.

[IndianaGreen]

5. I am not a member of the Green Party. Is that all you have to offer?

The empty rhetoric of a morally bankrupt campaign that offers nothing other than "we are not Bush so vote for us."

I am sure that President Kerry will herd us into "first amendment zones" when we march against the war and occupation of Iraq on March 20, 2005.

We could work together for a peace plank in the Democratic platform that calls for an immediate US withdrawal from Iraq, and the repeal of PATRIOT, but I doubt your side would agree to it.

[Paragon]

9. "My side"?

We're all on the same side on this board -- except for you, apparently.

[IndianaGreen]

11. The side that rationalizes Kerry's vote for IWR and PATRIOT

as opposed to the side that always opposed the war in Iraq, and the ongoing occupation, and the PATRIOT Act.

[Paragon]

12. Too late -- you shoulda stumped harder during the primaries

I was a Dean supporter, I didn't like his support of IWR or Patriot...but now he's obviously our man.

If I want to read criticisms of Kerry, I'll go to Free Republic, thank you. Your time to whine is over.

[IndianaGreen]

16. The issues remain even after Bush is gone

ABB is a shotgun wedding in which we all do one thing, and one thing only: vote Bush out.

The struggle for peace and justice at home and abroad will go on no matter who wins in November.

What some people fail to realize is that getting rid of Bush will not solve our problems, it is only the first step of many. A Kerry Administration will resist substantive change with the same vigor as the DLC has opposed progressive views from taking hold within the Democratic Party.

The Left knows the nature of the poisons we are being asked to choose in November. ABB is a one time act!

[polmaven]

18. Sure, why not?

We'll do it your way, or we can do it your way. Compromise is a good thing!

[IndianaGreen]

23. Your side is the one that calls for ideological obedience

Our side believes in open debate on issues that many of you dont' want to even mention in passing, e.g., Israel's occupation of Palestine.

[polmaven]

27. Right!

And your side is obviously right, because it is your side, so we'll just do it your way, then. Good! I'm glad that's settled. This thinking for myself stuff was just getting so boring!

[IndianaGreen]

29. We are not the ones calling for censorship

or supporting PATRIOT Act, even the water-down version that Kerry is currently saying he supports.

We are not the ones opposing reversing media consolidation that many in the Democratic establishment supported and continue to support.

[Dr Fate]

28. Goals are often ordered by logical priority...

...the "more Liberal" of our goals can only come AFTER we remove the obstacle that is Bush.

Attack Kerry all you want- just know that when you do so, you are friends of the GOP & media who also enjoy attacking him, not the friends of DEMS whos FIRST focus is to remove the Bush obstacle...

IG- we have to put up with attacks from the GOP, media and now the far left.

Us DEMS are being attacked on 3 fronts now. We are in a 3 against one fight...

You have decided to join the GOP & media in constant attacks against Kerry- so dont be suprised if your posts are not met with smiles & handshakes.

Cant you see this? Most of us AGREE with many of your talking points- but we will NOT join you in the attacking & weakening our candidate- the GOP, media & greens are already on that job...

[IndianaGreen]

36. Goal one: defeat Bush

Goal two: end the war and occupation of Iraq

Goal three: repeal PATRIOT Act in its entirety

Goal four: Reverse Bush and Clinton's policies that have hurt the working class, i.e., NAFTA.

And many, many more...

[Dr Fate]

42. Mostly agree...

...I dont know if we should Emulate Bush Sr's Afghanistan blunder by abandoning Iraq though...

[Dr Fate]

21. Ind. Green, not everyone AGREES on an immediate pull-out...

Just because a DEM poster does not agree with eveything you greens say does not make them "sell-outs"...

You want a "Peace Plank"- but that "plank" does us no good if we do not defeat Bush.

Personally, I would Love to see Kerry set up this "Department of Peace" and let DK either head it or help in the formation- but this dream is useless unless we win first.

I see the reasons for staying on Kerry on the issues you care about- but dont throw the baby out w/ the bath water...

[IndianaGreen]

25. What do you mean by "you greens"?

Don't pick on my user name and I won't pick on yours.

[Dr Fate]

31. Green is as green does.

Sorry- your name "green'- and I have personally NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER seen a post of yours that does not attack Democrats in typical green fashion.

You even attack Bill Clinton every chance you get.

If you have ever said ANYTHING positive about an elected Democrat, I have never seen it.

Your rhetoric is identical to Nader, not Dean, Clark or Kerry.

Excuse me for using my powers of observation.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Your powers of observation are severely lacking

No progressive worth his or her salt would support Clinton's policies in Colombia, welfare reform, NAFTA, GATT, etc.

Indiana Democrats are all shades of liberal. The moderate to conservatives are all Republicans. This is one of the beauties of living in a state that always goes on the Republican column, people that are Democrats are Democrats because they believe in progressive change, not corporatist status quo.

If you ever come down to my part of the country, you can meet me at our monthly Lawrence Township Democrat Club at the Painters Union Hall on Massachusetts Avenue.

[Dr Fate]

40. Not all "progressives" have to agree w/ YOU, Ind. Green...

YOU do not get to judge who is "worth their salt"

I never questioned your Liberalism, I am questioning whether it is good strategy to join the GOP & media in attacking Kerry.

I say "no" to joining forces w/ the GOP & media in attacking Kerry.

You are against "status quo"- good. Me too. Lets get rid of Bush as a grand start.

[Frederic Bastiat]

3. Since Kerry will be the nominee and not Kucinich

It seems only logical.

[w4rma]

4. Bush may be bringing our troops home before the election.

If he does do that and leaves a power vacuum behind, what would be the result?

This is a total mess, but the result of such a power vacuum would be horrible, imho. We *must* have a system of power in place before leaving.

[Paragon]

6. Um, huh?

We're going to be there for years.

[w4rma]

8. I stand by my statement. Bush may decide to bring the troops home

before the election and the results would be very bad, imho.

[still_one]

17. if he did that

the entire country would fall into civil war.

Kerry will bring in TRUE international involvement instead of dividing the world against us

[fromadam]

13. Kucinich wants to use the UN

Unless I heard wrong.

What, do you think Kucinich just wants to pull straight out and "let god sort it out"?

Please.

[Padraig18]

14. Actually, Kucinich's plan has little substance.

It's long on hope, and short on substance. Kucinich will not be able to 'bring our troops home' any fatser or better than Sen. Kerry will, frankly.

[still_one]

15. who won the nomination?

[IndianaGreen]

20. Not a single delegate vote has been cast at the Convention

No one has won the nomination. We do have a presumptive nominee. However, nothing is certain in life, and fate has a habit of intervening in human affairs.

The Convention and the election are very far away!

[Paragon]

22. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Exact same thing you just said, put much more succinctly.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Not the same thing

No one has won the nomination for the nomination is won at the Convention when the delegates cast their votes.

The rest is speculation!

[Toucano]

32. Self delete.

Question was already answered. :( My bad.

[NightNurse]

33. Drive A Stake in this Thread!

:hurts:

[alcuno]

37. I understand your point, but I think you miss the big picture.

The main solution to this problem is NOT to have the person who created it be the one to solve it. I don't know what the right answer is but I do know who the wrong problem-solver is.

[zanana]

7. Are we "freer" than most other countries?

When I hear somebody say "We attacked Iraq because we're fighting for our freedom", I think "Now, what exactly does that mean"? If we feel too intimidated to speak up, exactly whose "freedom" are we fighting for? Spain has apparently decided to vote like "free" people. They don't appear to be afraid to make their opinions known. Are they more "democratic" than we are? Are they "freer"?

[IndianaGreen]

10. Spain is more democratic than the US-they don't have winner-take-all

and they don't have an archaic Electoral College.

[Padraig18]

19. It's not 'more democratic'.

It's a parliamentary system, which is simply different, but not neccessarily superior to our own...

[Dr Fate]

24. Neither did Germany in the 1930's...

...They did not have a winner takes all system either. How else do you think an extremist candidate by the name of Aldolph Hitler won the Chancellorship with a mere 32% of the vote???

This may not be the answer either, IG...

[IndianaGreen]

30. Hitler was named Chancellor because people like von Papen

thought he could control him.

[Dr Fate]

41. And because 32% of the voters VOTED for him. He was ELECTED.

Just like BUSH will be ELECTED if the GOP, media and their apparent allies keep attacking Kerry.

[Kellanved]

39. actually pre-war Germany had both

A winner-takes-all Presidential election and a proportional representation house election. The failure of the Weimar Republic can be explained with shortcomings of either system - but such explanations are limited and fail to account for the major lack of said Republic: public support.

[Dr Fate]

43. informative post- THANX FOR THE CORRECTION!!. N/T

[Hippo_Tron]

35. What do campaign finance laws say about international contributions?

I can see this as a way for Kerry to make some serious campaign cash.

38. I don't think your subject line is fair or accurate

Socialists in Spain would probably be considered left wing here.

The Spanish were not showing there their support for Kerry, they were voting in their own election.

The Spanish were in the streets against the Iraq war back when Kerry voted for the IWR.

However, I do agree with one thing you wrote

Thank You Spain

oh and here's my loyalty oath. I am going to vote for Kerry in the November elections.