Hell with Iraq. How we gonna wean ourselves offa demon oil?

[IconoclastIlene]

The root of all evil is the same as it was during the oil embargo of the 1970's....oil, oil, oil....and other than going back to the horse and buggy what ideas are there to make a final break from our dependence in foreign oil that has snaked through American society ever since the Stanley Steamer went down the tubes?

Honestly, is taking over the oil fields gonna be the only answer to this extortion that WE, the people allowed our elected officials to take us to via the highway to hell?

This war, that war, we will always have ourselves up a creek so long as we need the good will of our middle eastern brethren to survive!!!!

[DyedNTheWoolDemocrat]

1. There is no reason we cannot rely on alternate sources of energy

This has not even been given a chance. At the very least we would not need as much oil as we rely on today.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi DyedNTheWoolDemocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Burma Jones]

2. As long as the Oil men are in the White House

we aren't going to get anywhere. Although with Clinton we had the absolute cheapest gas ever (figuring for inflation). I suppose these oil guys make the gas cheap when there's a President that might get alternative energy rolling. Then gas is so cheap that to bother finding and fielding an alternative would just be silly. SO, for CHEAP GAS, vote Democratic.......

[immoderate]

3. I did a calculation some time ago...

...using Enrico Fermi math, which involves rough estimates in complex calculations where offsetting errors achieve realistic results. It works.

Anyway, I figured that an area of photo-voltaic cells comparable to the rooftops of the United States would yield an amount of energy equal to our current usage. Use that energy to electrolyze water and distribute the hydrogen as our primary energy carrier. (Not all would have to be electrolyzed, of course, and the oxygen would be a bonus.)

Fuel cells have been around for 150 years. Photo cells are made primarily from silicon (more common than shit.) A serious development project would result in jobs and long term energy independence.

We're not limited to solar either. I believe this could be done with great economic and socio-political benefits.

They are working on projects like this in Europe and Japan. We are just so backward. We could be leading in this effort if this government wasn't run by knuckle-dragging troglodytes.

--IMM

[arewethereyet]

4. hydrogen, demand it

[opihimoimoi]

5. Until we find the Solution.... CONSERVE, Use sparingly: Energy is what

enables us to grow food. Oil is too precious to waste on War and its implements/efforts. Someday the future farmers will lament our gross waste.

[Robb]

9. Ah yes, the "C" word...

That's the first one all right. You don't even need a major policy initiative to do it. :thumbsup:

[dpbrown]

27. That's like telling mold not to grow in a wet basement

Humans don't have the capacity to limit consumption, and that concept itself runs opposite the voracious need of capitalistic endeavors to achieve unrealistic growth to continue to afford to funnel massive amounts of resources to the upper classes while making it look like we have some semblance of balance in society.

Conservation is an ineffective placebo.

We need a completely new and dramatically expandable infrastructure, but oil barons are withholding the keys to the new kingdom so they can wrest (Mad Max style), the final bits of gold from the fingers of the desperate as they control the spigots dispensing the last drops of demon oil to the masses.

[legin]

6. Why is it utterly necessary to have an adversarial relationship

with the Arab world. The u.s. seems to manage to trade goods and services with most of the rest of the world without it being issue (or at least it did anyway), so why does the u.s. go out of it's way to piss off the one set of people that have a commodity to trade that is vital to the u.s.'s survival ?

[IconoclastIlene]

7. OPEC Oil Embargo

but we have an adversarial relationship due to the need for fossil fuel that was supposed to have been a number one agenda from back in the 1970's...OPEC oil embargo, same old..same old...

[legin]

11. The OPEC oil embargo in the 70's

Why was there one ?

[charlie]

12. Retaliation

for the Yom Kippur War.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[MadHound]

8. Easy solution, well within our current reach

A range of alternative energy choices. Wind, solar, biodiesel(replace all of that oil used in vehicles), geothermal, hydrogen etc. The only drawback to implementing these solutions is the stubborness of the corporate whores who hold office, and the profit lust of their corporate masters.

But there is something that most of us can do in the short term, and that is start making your own biodiesel. It is easy to do, the product is cheaper than petroleum, and the exhaust emmisions are very small. Diesel cars, trucks and SUVs, both new and used, are comparable in price to gas powered vehicles. You don't have to make many, if any modifications to the engine in order run biodiesel(switch over fuel lines to metal, replace a few gaskets, if anything at all). If even ten percent of the motoring public would start getting into biodiesel, it would prompt the oil companies to sit up and take notice. And since they will still be driven by the profit motive, they will start commercially producing biodiesel in order to make money. Poof, problem solved, at least for transportation.

A couple of links:

"From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" by Joshua Tickell <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0970722702/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref%3Dnosim/103-5386865-9239036> A great book to get started making your own biodiesel. Contains recipies, troubleshooting, engine mods, and various other options for biofuel.

<http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/> A great site for a comprehensive overview of biodiesel. Good resources, nice set of links.

Vegetable oil, its not just for frying anymore.

[redqueen]

10. Thanks for posting these links

Now that the price is rising maybe more people will have an impetus to look into and even implement these solutions!

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Pretty Easy - Vote For Kerry

Kerry has been wanting to do this for a long, long time. If it weren't for the political climate, this would probably be the centerpiece of his agenda. And he is smart enough to enact real change without scaring the hell out of the business sector - even the unions got behind him, despite their (unfounded) fears about renewable energy vs. jobs.

The same arguments against renewables were used to suggest that taking the lead of gasoline would destroy the industry back in the 70's. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now.

Don't take my word on this. Read Kerry's proposals and you'll be convinced (keep in mind the guy has a 96.5 rating from LCV).

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_0613.html

[Arkana]

14. exactly

George W. Bush won't push funding for the search for cleaner energy sources because Halliburton, ExxonMobil, and all the gas and oil conglomerates have him by the balls. He can't piss off his fat-cat buddies by taking cash from them!

[IconoclastIlene]

15. I am hopeful that Kerry will get us on the bandwagon that Reagan

took us off....not that many years ago...and that Gore was castigated for and that which leaves us still dependent on folks that ain't crazy about us for whatever reason they choose to cook up.

I look for new democratic leadership to help get at the roots of problems that have been festering for decades and have brought us to the foot of the door that whe now stand in front of.......that we become self reliant and not cast ourselves as demons worthy of the wrath of the world, for we are not, we have been a beacon for so long and I believe that someday we will not need fear being "ugly Americans".

[_Jumper_]

18. The US need not be in conflict with the Middle East

All we have to do is have sane policies there. Would you support an even-handed policy toward Israel or do you believe that the US should continue to support every single thing that Israel does?

[IconoclastIlene]

23. If it wasn't Israel; it would be something else; believe me....

Were it not for Israel taking a lot of the crap and flak; don't believe for a minute there would'nt be other things to piss and moan about...

[lojasmo]

16. diesel

I can run 100% biomass biodiesel in my TDI April-October. Those in the south can run bio-D year round.

[_Jumper_]

17. Israel was the reason for the oil embargo

When is the US going to wean itself off of blind support for a nation that is the #1 reason for terrorism and hatred directed against it?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. Not the horse and buggy, but a few old-fashioned technologies

1. Make it possible for people to do without cars by

a. building mass transit systems in every major city (each complete system would cost about as much as 2 Stealth bombers)
b. funding Amtrak enough to build high-speed rail connections to all the cities within each region, since rail beats air for trips of less than 600 miles--with the eventual goal, maybe within thirty or forty years, of having high-speed rail from coast to coast by filling in the gaps
c. providing incentives for rural areas to run shuttle bus or dial-a-ride programs
d. redesigning cities to be amenable to walking and cycling and in particular, siting schools so that kids get into the habit of walking and cycling early

2. Tap into renewable energy resources, such as wind, hydro, and geothermal, as much as possible.

3. Fund scientists to discover replacements for plastics.

These steps would not only free us from dependence on oil but create countless jobs.

[SHRED]

24. Let our farmers grow it

http://naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html

Farming 6% of the continental U.S. acreage with biomass crops would provide all of America's energy needs.

Hemp is Earth's number-one biomass resource; it is capable of producing 10 tons per acre in four months.

Biomass can be converted to methane, methanol, or gasoline at a cost comparable to petroleum, and hemp is much better for the environment.

Pyrolysis (charcoalizing), or biochemical composting are two methods of turning hemp into fuel.

Hemp can produce 10 times more methanol than corn.

Hemp fuel burns clean. Petroleum causes acid rain due to sulfur pollution.

The use of hemp fuel does not contribute to global warming.

[dpbrown]

25. Manhattan Project to create a Hydrogen Infrastructure in 5 years

1. Creating Hydrogen power using wind energy to take Hydrogen from water (not petrochemicals).

2. Adding Hydrogen fueling capabilities to existing gas stations.

3. Aggressive rebates and deductions for moving to Hydrogen-based vehicles.

4. Empowering individual farmers to become part of the production grid.

5. Rolling the production technology down to individual homeowners to become self-sufficient in energy use through wind, solar, geothermal, and hydrogen production.

DPB