Clark for VP....one more reason as stated in Washington Post

[julialnyc]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58663-2004Mar14.html

(snip)

Arkansas, for example, is one of the 18 states that were decided by fewer than 6 percentage points in 2000, but unless Kerry picks retired Army Gen. Wesley K. Clark, of Arkansas, as his vice presidential running mate, Bush could have an easier time there than he did four years ago. North Carolina, which Democrats have not won since Jimmy Carter's presidency, might not be competitive even if home state Sen. John Edwards were on the Democratic ticket.

[clark4ever]

1. Clinton could help too making them a dream team for Kerry!

There would be a Clinton/Clark dream team campaigning in Arkansas, putting that state seriously into play

[Bombtrack]

4. and both of them can campaign for Kerry without them being vp

.

[cosmokramer]

42. Dear God...

...what part of Clark is already campaigning for Kerry when no other contender is don't you understand?

[BootinUp]

2. Also, an interesting bit on LA

Republican strategists say Kerry will have a tough time due to Louisiana's pro-oil industry.

[Bombtrack]

3. Arkansas is waayyyyyy less blue than Florida and has less than 1/5th the

electoral votes as Florida. So if you're chosing A state to target above all others as reason for your vp choice, it should clearly be Graham and not Clark. I know their are other reasons people give for wanting Clark, but their are other reasons for Graham as well.

Arkansas is solidly in dixie, and I've yet to see any polling info to show Kerry's cultural stigma NOT having the "conventional wisdom" affect that it's had for other northerners in the south, particularly when he's such the antithesis of what makes a good candidate in these parts of the country in every way other than his military service 35 years ago.

When I see polling to suggest otherwise, I'll be surprised

[cosmokramer]

5. I totally disagree...

...with Jeb in Florida, Graham is definitely NOT a shoo-in. In fact, why put all eggs on winning Florida? That doesn't make sense.

At least with General Clark, not only will he likely get Arkansas (especially with the big dog helping behind the scenes), but will help significantly in places like Ohio, where the Kerry campaign is already sending him to stump and 'speak for Kerry' tomorrow. Your reasoning just makes very little sense.

[Auntie Bush]

7. Hey Cosmo...Give the general a hug from all of .

us DU Clark supporters tomorrow. Tell him how much we love and support him. You are soooooo lucky!!!!!!!! You must be :bounce:

[cosmokramer]

10. I will definitely do that!

I am so afraid that I will throw up in the van! LOL

[Bombtrack]

8. Arkansas has a GOP, Bush loyal governor too and we lost it by 5.5 percent

compared to Florida which after everything that happened against our favor, was only officially lost by .1 percent. I never said it's a shoe-in, I said all factors and trends point to it being more favorable for Kerry than pretty much every other red state other than New Hampshire. And frankly, there is jacksquat to prove Clark has broad appeal and popularity in Arkansas, much less Ohio. Pockets of excitement in a democratic primary, which Clark-for-vp supporters constantly point to as that, isn't it. He doesn't have anything Kerry requires most in a vp, and what he would bring to a potential nominee at the top of the ticket, Kerry doesn't need before a dozen other major things.

[cosmokramer]

15. Jack squat that he has popularity in Ohio?

Think again! Clark had the most people at caucus, and the most delegate applications submitted statewide. He had a huge ground force here, and is widely known all across the state because of the Dayton Peace Accords (which were a huge matter of pride for Ohio).

Additionally, KERRY is sending him here to stump for him and speak on his behalf, in recognition a) of how important Ohio is to the GE, and b) of how huge the Clark organization and party popularity was here. Otherwise, why send Clark????

And in case you want 'proof', check out that ONLY Clark and Dean got all 91 delegates elected--every other candidate fell way, way short and Kerry actually has to have a second caucus to fill all the vacancies for pledged delegates.

EDIT: Forgot Link (doh!)

http://www.ohiodems.org

[BootinUp]

19. I didn't realize Clark

was popular in OH because of the Dayton accords. Very Interesting. Does it still get mentioned in local coverage?

[Bombtrack]

20. What you pointed out is excitement in a democratic primary

which is far different than claiming someone is flat-out popular in a state, or further that he would be any major help as vice presidential candidate more than anyone else. That's like saying that Kucninich would do better in a general election in Hawaii than Edwards because of what happened in the primary.

[cosmokramer]

33. No, it isn't different.

Party insider popularity is a way to measure general popularity. Apparently, you don't know Ohio and how our party works, or how the persons who are ACTIVE in the party are also active in their communities and recognize the mood and movement of their communities. Things aren't as black and white as you make them to be. I am here, I know, I live it everyday. It is the PARTY that influences the choice for VP, and it is the PARTY that leads the people and represents a constituancy. And yes, Clark was (and still is) very popular here.

I will be sure to upload the tape for the record breaking Frolic for Funds event tomorrow night where the General is speaking for Sen. Kerry.

[Auntie Bush]

24. Me thinks someones

tracks have been derailed.

[Adelante]

35. Heh

Methinks, too. ;)

[cosmokramer]

38. I couldn't agree more. You don't have to hit me upside the head.

[leyton]

53. I agree. Clark's appeal is more than regional.

He adds credibility on national security and executive experience (although not quite the same type needed in government, but hey) which could ultimate swing a few close states, as well as Arkansas.

[BootinUp]

6. I don't see why you

count the Kerry negative in Arkansas but not in Florida. As the article stated Arkansas was fairly competitive in 2000.

Without starting a huge sub-thread we have had this conversation about Graham as VP before.

[Bombtrack]

9. Most of Florida's population isn't in dixie. All of Arkansas is.

And I didn't say Kerry wouldn't have to overcome that stigma in Florida, he'll have to overcome it everywhere. But clearly history shows where those kind of negatives hurt people most.

Florida has been booming for decades with huge population growth and shifts. Arkansas has been relatively stagnant. My main point is that I don't beleive Kerry could win Arkansas unless Bush tanks and therefor after every other red swingstates, based on clear history and trends and political science. And therefor it's not a state Clark is likely to produce for the ticket, even though it's obviously the state Clark as a vp has the greatest potential to help a potential nominee in, meaning he is a dumb choice for vp when you have John kerry at the top of the ticket

[BootinUp]

11. So what do you think

Graham's chances are of being tapped by Kerry?

[Bombtrack]

13. I'd say pretty good. They've certainly been spending alot of time together

You know how much of a sort of Kennedy-redux Kerry wants/likes to be. Graham would/could be his LBJ, winning him the biggest prize of the electoral map up for grabs, as Johnson did for Kenendy with Texas

[BootinUp]

14. I'm happy as long as we win of course

I still question Grahams ability to help in other contested states, but I've decided the DU VP wars are a bit ridiculous at this point, and lets just see what Kerry decides.

[democratreformed]

16. Yeah, now you're talking!

I can't take any more of the Clark bashing based on who someone else wants to be VP. Kerry is good enough to trust to be President. Surely we can trust him to choose the best possible candidate for VP. Please, no more Clark bashing by those people who want Edwards (or someone else) for VP.

[Bombtrack]

18. it is neither "clark bashing" nor based on who I want

I'm not critisizing the notion of chosing Clark as vp because I'd rather have Graham, I'm critisizing it because I think it's a bad choice, among the worst. And I was a Clark for president supporter. I think highly of the man, but while he would have been an ideal vp for someone like Edwards and probably a requirement for Dean, Kerry is just incompatable based on their needs/potential advantages, and would far better be utilized as a NSA, sec of state etc for Kerry, when he is of little likely political advantage

[BootinUp]

22. I really don't think she

was referring to you, but to some of the other posts in other threads calling him a repug etc.

[cosmokramer]

41. I beg to differ.

Every remark you make about Clark includes your boasting of Graham. At least be honest about it.

[Bombtrack]

43. No, it doesn't. But this whole post involves the assertion that

Arkansas is competative for Kerry, when that is very doubtful. Landrieu would be a better vp than Clark. Edwards would be a better vp than Clark. Clark isn't a cogent choice for Kerry

[cosmokramer]

47. Yea, don't stop believin.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

:wtf:

[democratreformed]

23. Sorry, I can't reply to whoever replied to me

b/c I can't see you. Thanks anyway.

[BootinUp]

27. i guess thats

proof of my point, heh.

[Leilani]

26. I'm With You!

I'm sick of all the Veep bashing threads.

IMO Clark would be a very good choice, for reasons I have previously posted, but the thing I care MOST about is getting rid of the resident in the White House.

John Kerry has run a very impressive campaign thus far; he turned things around for the primaries, & has been on the offensive against Shrub in a very effective way.

So I'm going to trust him to make the best choice for the ticket; the choice will be well thought out & thoroughly researched, & in the end, it may come down to his personal preference: who does he feel most comfortable with.

[John_H]

31. Do the most recent elections count for you?

We picked up a senate seat in Arkansas and got pummeled in the Florida gubernatorial race.

[Bombtrack]

32. They count, but it's more apples and oranges than direct change

We won that senate seat because Hutchinson was an adulteror, and Jeb won reelection to governor in the same election every New England state except Maine elected or reelected GOP governors. It was a state race about state issues, not national issues, as gubinatorial elections virtually always are.

I might also add that a democratic senator won Florida in 2000 during the same election

[robbedvoter]

12. Wow! Clark's name appeared in print? What happened?

And not in a negative way? Is the boycott over or did someone slip?

[julialnyc]

28. I know

Today was the first day of good press I have seen in a while. Even CNN had nice words to say.
I think after the tragedy in Spain, among other things, Clark is becoming a more and more obvious choice!

[Auntie Bush]

37. No, Someone was eating a banana

[katieforeman]

17. I think it's a mistake to focus on one state.

Gore didn't carry TN. I don't think we should assume Clark would gaurentee AK.

Homestate advantage isn't what it used to be. People move more frequently now, and national media is now much more important in affecting how candidates are seen.

Furthermore, the article mentions 18 closely contested states. We need to find the candidate that gives us the best chance in most of those states.

[Bombtrack]

21. We need someone who gives us the best chance in the most electoral votes

worth of states.

[Thrill]

25. Clark seems to be the

best choice out of all the VP candidates. Gephardt does nothing for me. And I just don't think a two Senator ticket is the way to go. So I would take Edwards because he won't win NC or South Carolina. If Clark is the VP and he can help pickup ARK all Kerry has to do is keep All the Gore states and pickup his New England state NH. I also think Clark helps a ton with the Military vote.

[clark4ever]

29. He will help with independents

Plus he is popular with independents and ex-republicans

[Bombtrack]

30. There is no tangible evidence of that. It's an empty proclamation

wishful thinking really. Not that he wouldn't add anything, but that he would more than any other of the talked about vp candidates

[cosmokramer]

39. Wishful thinking?

There is no 'tangible evidence' that Graham would win Florida either...ESPECIALLY with Jeb and his cronies there.

And indeed, Clark DOES add more of what Kerry needs, or have you not read his resume?

And if Kerry didn't think Clark added more, then why is he sending WES CLARK, of all available former candidates, to these key states? He isn't sending Graham (even though he would do anything short of harming his grandchilden to get the VP nod). He isn't sending Edwards (even though his handful of big dollar trial lawyer donors think they can buy a VP nod). He isn't sending Gephardt (who most have seen so many times that it is kind of boring).

John Kerry is sending CLARK to speak for John Kerry in key battleground states.

Your arguments about Graham are weak, at best. I love the guy, I think he is great...for Florida, but no farther. And Florida being the huge roll of the dice that it is, Kerry would be wise to steer clear of a VP nod to Graham.

[Carolinian]

34. Don't believe it....

Don't "misunderestimate" how popular John Edwards is in North Carolina! There's a lot of Republicans here ready to vote Democratic if Edwards is on the ticket

Clark doesn't appeal to me at all.

[Adelante]

36. Edwards doesn't appeal to me at all

But welcome to DU :hi:

[cosmokramer]

40. And Edwards makes me...

...want to break out my Ken doll and set it on fire. No nod will be coming the way of Senator Edwards, I promise.

[roguevalley]

44. I'm a westerner and sit in Alaska. I have distance between me and the

status quo, between me and closeness to the candidates.
I can tell you, Edwards appeals almost nil to me altho
I am sure he is a good husband and father. I don't take
away his humanity but I don't care for him as a person
who would get my vote. Maybe being out of the center makes
it harder for me to get all passionate about someone who
is 'just another suit' like so many were.

Without ABB I don't think even Kerry would be where he
is now. People are looking hard core and blasphemously
pragmatically at someone who will beat Bush. Clark fits
the bill for many reasons. I will vote happily for a
ticket with him on it. I don't want Kerry first but I
will vote for anyone who can beat Bush. Clark helps make
my doing so palatable because he's truly the most rounded
and evolved and intellectual candidate on the national
scene for me and he communicates a western sensibility
to me about the land, honesty, ethics and a truly
abiding sense of what a real American is. He put his
blood on the line for our country and kept his intellectual
edge in a conformity-creating career. To me, he is a hero.
In the very best, very truest sense of the word. I
haven't been this in tune with a candidate since JFK.

Its called hope.

[BootinUp]

46. another great testimonial

I like reading em all.

[newyawker99]

45. Hi Carolina Girl NC!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[atre]

51. You're absolutely right

From the circles I run in, it seems very clear to me that Edwards would carry a ton of crossover votes in N.C.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[julialnyc]

48. Wes for VP

Wesley Clark is defiantly the strongest candidate for VP for all of the reasons you mentioned above, but I think the National Security and Independent appeal is actually (for the most part) the same voter. I do not think Kerry is weak on defense, but this is the #1 Bush/Cheney 04’ lie that they are going to run with and just like WMD’s, some people will believe their lies. While Kerry ranks higher than Bush in every other category, Bush is leading by a big percentile when it comes to National Security. I have many people that I know (my dad and his friends, my mom and her friends) who I think are the typical Independent voter who like Kerry, but are scared of terrorism. Trust me, I try to reason with them, but they go on and on about how our economy is directly linked to terrorism (if we are hit our economy will tank). Wesley Clark would put all this nonsense to rest. How can people argue that Kerry can’t keep us safe when the former Supreme Commander of NATO is his running mate!

[Auntie Bush]

50. How can you argue against that?

I have quite a few relatives like that too. Dyed-in-the-wool Repukicans. But I'm working on them. Takes a lot of patient subtle psychology.

[atre]

52. I've found the economic argument far more effective...

at drawing converts, but that may have something to do with the type of Republicans I tend to know (Lou Dobbs types). Even the die-hard Republicans that I can't convert concede that the Bush Administration is terrible for the economy.

Maybe there have been some polls run on the issue of whether Kerry-Clark draws more favorable reactions on the national security issue? I'm genuinely curious (and a bit skeptical).

One of the reasons why I don't think Kerry-Clark is a good ticket is because that will probably seem to be a "cover my deficiency" selection: Republicans will argue that Kerry, by selecting Clark as VP, concedes he is weak on national security.

Regardless, elections are won not with "national security" opinion polls, but with votes. At the moment, we can see that all polls indicate Kerry-Edwards beats any other potential Democratic ticket. That ticket matches even Kerry-Graham in Florida (while Kerry-Clark is not very popular at all).

[AlinPA]

49. We have good VP candidates. Especially Clark & Edwards.