The DINO dilemma: Clark or Lieberman?

[sfecap]

Let's face it...we've got two DINOs in the race. Which is the better candidate? I say it would have to be Lieberman.

Lieberman has a voting record. He's strong on national defense. He supported, and continues to support the Iraq War. He's got name recognition. He polls relatively well.

Then there is Clark. A "new" (literally) Democrat. He's strong on defense. He praises the bush* administration. He has neocon colleagues. He votes for repukes. He's flip flopped on the Iraq war, but he looked good on CNN when he was promoting it.

If you want a tried and true DINO with legislative experience and good name recognition, go with Joe.

If you want a new DINO, who is a political neophyte, with no legislative experience, Wes is your guy. Of course, Wes has the "fear factor" going for him. Elect an ex General, and he'll keep you "safe"!

It's a tough choice, but I say go with the more experienced DINO.

BTW...rumor has it that Zell Miller will be endorsing Clark soon.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[WhoCountsTheVotes]

2. There's at least three

DINO is right - Dean is a Rockefeller Republican.

[jmaier]

3. Let's not face it

I'd like you to point out any set of Clark's policy issue position statements that point him significantly to the right of Gov Dean or reveal a DINO-like character. I'm betting that you can't.

This thread is a smear and inflammatory and if your candidate needs this type of support to win the primary then God help the democratic party.

And yes, I do protest often when alleged Clark supporters behave like adolescents.

Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[sfecap]

5. A smear?

Gee, I sure didn't mean to smear Lieberman. He's been a registered Democrat for many years.

I don't recall him speaking at any republican fundraisers.

[windansea]

52. whatsa matter??

see a tank in your rear view mirror??

[bowens43]

11. Unfortunately,

because of the lack of a verifiable record all we have is Clark's word as to what his position is on any issue but his recent voting history and praise for republican administrations (including the current administration) belie his words. As the general said, he would be a republican if Rove had returned his calls.

[CMT]

4. If it came down to Joe vs. Clark

I would reluctantly choose Joe. Why? While he is too hawkish on international affairs for my liking he does have a demonstrated, generally liberal domestic record.

BTW, I thought Zell endorsed Bush for 2004?

[bowens43]

13. Me too.

I never thought that I would chose Lieberman over anyone...then Clark entered the race.

[MysticMind]

6. On DU anyone not as far left as Mao is considered a DINO

Now they're even saying Dean is a Republican. What a joke. I hate extremists who demonize every candidate who isn't "pure" enough.

[BobbyJay]

8. I know, it's ridiculous.

Whoever becomes mainstream becomes un-liberal.

[dolstein]

7. The False Dilemma Dilemma

Why is it that so many supporters of Howard Dean are so quick to brand other candidates as DINOs? I guess they're only following the lead of their chosen candidate, who claims that he alone repreesents the "Democratic wing" of the Democratic Party and recently dismissed the DLC (and, by extension, Bill Clinton) as the "Republican wing" of the Democratic Party.

Well, all I can say is that this lifelong Democrat would be far more comfortable backing someone like Clark or Lieberman in the general election than Howard Dean.

[Padraig18]

10. I absolutely disassociate myself with those remarks.

Not every Dean supporter feels this way. I wish I could make stupid, flame bait posts like that one go away. Sorry... :shrug:

[Rowdyboy]

18. Thanks, Padraig,

noway you can keep asses from posting flames. I've tried on my side and failed-at least you make the effort.

What a pity that some can only resort to baseless namecalling and accusations.

[Padraig18]

20. Thanks!

The kind of flame bait this post represents is completely uncalled for, and helps Gov. Dean not at all.

[_NorCal_D_]

40. Thank you.

I really want to like Dean, though on more than one occasion certain Dean supporters have completely destroyed that possibility.

[Jerseycoa]

41. Thanks, Padraig

I was just about to turn nasty, but you stopped me short.

I'm going to ignore this thread for the sake of New Years Eve. I might have to start drinking early though :beer:

[bowens43]

17. Why Clark?

He's been a Democrat for a whopping 3 months.

[dolstein]

38. Well, he's voted Democrat since 1992

He voted for Clinton twice and Gore in 2000. Plus, I'm always willing to welcome new Democrats into the fold. Besides, Eisenhower had been a Republican for a very short period of time when he ran for president in 1952, and he helped revive a party that had been shut out of the White House for twenty years. I think Clark could do wonders for the image of the Democratic Party. I also think that Clark is one of the only Democrats who could effectively campaign in the South. I want to get rid of Bush, and I think Clark had a far better shot at achieving that goal than Dean does.

[private_ryan]

9. Clark not Marxists enough for you?

Clark at least has a chance.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[sfecap]

19. Hi net nanny, thank you for the scolding.

But differing opinions are allowed here, the last time I checked. Or maybe not?

If you don't like it, I suggest you don't read it.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Padraig18]

23. 100% agreement.

:thumbsup:

[Padraig18]

22. Not a 'net nanny'.

But obviously someone who knows better than to post pure, flame-bait bull that does nothing to help Gov. Dean. :grr:

[sfecap]

26. LOL.

Lieberman had been relentlessly attacked here for being a DINO. I don't recall your outrage.

[Padraig18]

28. Then you've not read very carefully.

I've defended Joe on here a LOT. Do you REALLY think you're helping Gov. Dean with this sort of gutter-level, flame bait?

[sfecap]

31. Padraig....

Relax. It's just a discussion board.

[Padraig18]

36. It's also supposed to attempt to be civil.

Your post doesn't even have a nodding acquaintance with the word.

[sfecap]

39. I think my post is very civil.

And well presented. You may not like the message, but don't attack the messenger.

Now there must be many other uncivil threads that you could be monitoring here, isn't there?

[Padraig18]

43. What is it about 'turning off fellow Democrats' you don't understand?

Your post is the most rank sort of flame bait.

[sfecap]

47. Decaf.

Highly recommended.

See post #32.

[Padraig18]

54. Power switch on your comp.

Highly reccomended.

[sfecap]

56. Reflecting on your tone.

Priceless.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[sfecap]

60. Bobby...not very nice.

Please reconsider your language. And have a very nice day.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[BeyondGeography]

14. Clark's positions

on the issues, which are fully detailed on his website, would have him excommunicated from the Republican party. The man is a Democrat, and we're lucky to have him on our side.

Next canard, please.

[sfecap]

29. He would have been a republican....

...if only Rove had returned his calls. LOL.

[meow mix]

15. another lovely post

and a great example of why i disagree with the style of the dean campaign. pure bs.

[BOSSHOG]

16. I read your post and similar ones

and I'm supposed to be civil to your overtures of supporting your candidate? Me thinks it is time for Dean supporters to unload themselves of the chip on their shoulders. It apparently is getting heavy.

[John_H]

24. LOL! Dean raises money from Wal-Mart, Pfizer, Boeing, and the NRA and

he's not a DINO. LOL!

[HFishbine]

61. And, of course, you can substantiate those assertions

Right?

[_NorCal_D_]

25. Zell Miller has already

proclaimed that he will be supporting and voting for Bush. Next time do a little research before spewing such inflammatory crap.

[sfecap]

27. Bush...Clark?

What's the difference?

[Padraig18]

30. One's a Democrat---

Clark.

[BobbyJay]

45. Their policies for one thing.

[edzontar]

32. OK-I am assuming this thread is a parody of the anti-Dean threads

The language is so similar that this just has to be the case/

I certainly found myself laughing, which is not usually the case in these threads.

So, for the moment, I am assuming this is a joke.

Am I right?

[sfecap]

35. You win the prize.

Congrats. :-)

[BobbyJay]

42. Unfortunately it isn't

[edzontar]

44. He ADMITTED it was a satire!!!!!

Is humor dead on DU?

[BobbyJay]

46. I don't believe him.

If it is satire, it is pointless. What is the point of this? Just to piss people off?

[sfecap]

51. Does calling members "morons" piss them off?

Just wondering...

[BobbyJay]

53. Not as much as starting inflamatory threads

Which is all this is.

[sfecap]

57. Here's the thing...

You don't even have to read them. LOL.

[BobbyJay]

59. Unfortunately when you include the name calling IN THE TITLE

I do read it.

[sfecap]

49. Yes. It is.

Died about a month ago.

[meow mix]

55. bs

he does it constantly, and the pretends like "itsa joke"

his statements further down, more accurately show us what is motivating this behavior. (a twisted view of reality)

one sec, here ok.

"Bold and honest assessments are only permitted here if it reflects poorly on Howard Dean.
Any others will invoke outrage and scolding from net nanny"

[OKNancy]

33. Your guy

http://64.176.73.100/OKDemocrat/posts/59699.html#59699

[liberalnurse]

34. This is a bold and honest assessment.

Lieberman does have strong democratic history; VP ticket with Gore tops the list. Clark is new on the block without any, nada democratic history...only words.

I never looked at this angle before. It deems recognition as a responsible voter.

[sfecap]

37. Bold and honest assessments...

...are only permitted here if it reflects poorly on Howard Dean.

Any others will invoke outrage and scolding from net nanny. :-)

[edzontar]

48. Actually, although you admit this is a joke, you make a good point

Regarding Lieberman....

NOT enouh to make me like him very very much, but a fair case for his loyalty overall to the Dem social-economic agenda.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Rowdyboy]

63. Thank God for Dean supporters like Padraig who help

me suppress the nausea I feel in reading the trash that passes for "satire". Thankfully, most Dean supporters have way more class than is shown here.

[chiburb]

64. Only one problem with Padraig's posts...

I always read them because he's intelligent and thoughtful. But... to me it looks like he's having a conversation with himself. Oh well...

[windansea]

65. face this

[Moderator]

66. locking.......

1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. Some examples of things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters, broad-brush statements about groups of people, single-sentence "drive-by" thread topics, etc.



DU Moderator