Should Kerry make an issue of Spain?

[BurtWorm]

Poll question: Should Kerry make an issue of Spain?

[Fovea]

1. No, because it

should be left to speak for itself.
It is glaring proof that we dropped the ball
and screwed the pooch on prosecuting the terrorists.

Now, in the chaos of Iraq, they have a larger base of operations.
We had them bottled up in Tora Bora, and we blew it massively, due to our reliance on Pakistan, who is not playing for anyone but Pakistan.
This large, bloody mistake is already resonating through the EU.

All Kerry needs do is remain critical of the Iraqi adventure.
However, here is an issue that Dennis should be all over.
I think that Kucinich could do a lot of good being out front on this issue.

[Guaranteed]

2. He has to do something.

The Republicans and the media are beginning to blur the distinction between the war on terror and the Iraq war- again. If they are allowed to do that, Kerry's criticisms of the Iraq war will be begin to look like hesitation to take on the terrorists, which is exactly what the Bush administration wants to do to him. He has to make sure that the Iraq war and the war on terror stay mutually exclusive.

[BurtWorm]

3. Very well said. I agree with you.

I think the human thing to do is to give some credit to the Spanish people for punishing liars. Here is a sad but necessary opportunity to make clear the differnece between staying with Bush and changing course. Do we stick with liars or do we move with the Spanish people back to the community of nations? Of course it can't be phrased so clumsily, but this is one of those moments when the voters need to see a clear distinction between muddle-headed Bushism and clear-focused Kerryism.

[Adelante]

7. I agree

And Wes Clark is already out there doing it. He was on Scarborough last night.

http://www.us4clark.com/mediaclips.html

[BootinUp]

19. Exactly

We have to have clear positions and we can't wiffle waffle. If we haven't figured out where we stand yet the American people will never trust us.

[gasperc]

4. Bushies plan is "defy the terrorists" re-elect me

this is the wedge they are trying to drive so Kerry has to get way in front of it. Bush's people will keep an eye on Spain and when something fucked up happens they'll blame the new leader's anti-Iraq stance and smear Kerry with it!!!!

[BurtWorm]

6. That's why Kerry should focus on solidarity with the Spanish people.

If he does make a statement (which I actually believe he should) it should be about the wisdom and sensitivity of Spanish democracy to make a clear choice not to reward a government that wasn't straight with them about an act of terror that affected all of them.

[Frodo]

5. How about: "No. It would be a mistake to publicly side with

a socialist government"?

Bad label = bad result.

[BurtWorm]

8. If this were freeperville, that would be choice one.

But as I said above, any statement about Spain should be about the Spanish people and the democracy, not about the government in power.

[Frodo]

10. But it was the "government in power" that MADE the statement.

How can Kerry separate one from the other?


An endorsement by the government of France isn't going to win us any net votes either.

It was a HUGE mistake to bring foreign governments into this in the first place.

[BurtWorm]

12. If he can't make himself clear about where he stands

why is he even running?

[Frodo]

14. I'm sure Kerry has no problem being clear about where he stands.

I just don't think "socialist" happens to be that place. There really is a difference between the Spanish Socialist party and the Democratic Party here in the US.

The most obvious difference is that one could never be elected here. And Kerry has no reason to tie them together.

Even if there WAS a unity of purpose, it's a mistake to tie yourself to another country's priorities rather than your own.

[BurtWorm]

15. It is not a mistake to point out that the Spanish people

rejected the kinds of lies that the Aznar Bush alliance were addicted to to keep their little war game going. Now I know Kerry supported the war initially, and that he nominally supports the "war on terror." But I think it would be a risk worth taking--better in my opinion than in obviously and studiously avoiding to say anything at all about Spain--to draw conclusions about what the Spanish vote meant. In my opinion, it's less attractive in a candidate when he tries to say nothing or everything than when he actually says something intelligent about a world event.

[Frodo]

16. It would be a mistake.

It would be too simple for the other side to say "Oh, you think THAT's what caused them to vote that way... did you watch the news at all last week?"

Your argument takes no notice of a couple hundred people being murdered right before the election.

Murdered (reportedly) by Al Qaeda - who clearly had an intention to punish those who supported the "war" and to help to power those who opposed it.

I don't want MY candidate siding with that crowd! How would he EVER dodge the "Al Qaeda wanted the anti-war to run Spain and were willing to kill for it. Now they want Bush gone... Who are YOU with?"


I'm not saying pro-war or anti-war is a good or bad policy. I'm saying attaching your position to recent events in Spain could be suicide. Frankly... The american people don't care what the Spanish people want. And they aren't particularly interested in an candidate that appears to.

[BurtWorm]

24. It would not be a mistake to tell the truth

which is that the Spanish people say they rejected Aznar because of his lies, not because of fear of terrorism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/17/international/europe/17SPAI.html

Read the article at the link above.

Why is it considered giving in to terror to elect Socialists but not to elect conservatives? If voting for conservatives is a vote against terror, why should Americans vote against Bush?

The point is that the Bushist policies against terror have been shown not to work. They've made the world less safe. Bushism has failed and must be rejected. For the sake of sanity and safety.

[revcarol]

9. If he can't take the heat, he shouldn't have gotten in the kitchen.

SOMEDAY he's got to take a stand, and not just be "electable!"

Being in solidarity with the Spanish people is the IDEAL opportunity to distinguish between terrorism and Iraq, and point out by inference that Bush painted a target on "coalition of the willing" members.

I'm not holding my breath that he will actually have a backbone.

[Frodo]

11. "Being in solidarity with the Spanish people is the IDEAL opportunity ..."

A lot of those "Spanish people" get to vote over here now?

Why give Bush the convention speech all wrapped up in a nice bow like that? "John Kerry may be very popular among people looking out for the interests of the French or Germans or the new 'socialist' Spanish government brought to you courtesy of Al Qaeda... I am only looking out for the interests of the 'American people'"

[sangh0]

13. Yes, because it's another example of Bush* alienating allies

and Kerry should point to Bush*'s reaction to the Socialist victory (ie "The terrorists have won! The terrorists have won!") as another example of how Bush* insults and alienates our allies.

[uconnsms]

17. no, because

the average voter in the United States is not very politically active, informed, or intelligent. They will fail to see the connection between the Iraq War and the Spain attacks because they probably don't even know that we were allied with Spain in the war. All average Joe will see is Kerry attacking the president, and that makes him look bad in their eyes. I think he should stick to national issues, and with regard to foreign policy simply discuss his plans and ideas rather than attacking Bush's.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi uconnsms!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[uconnsms]

21. Thanks

Thanks, I appreciate it

[JI7]

20. you got freepers calling for taco bell boycott

because of spain electing socialists. so you are right about not being informed , but the sad thing is those freepers ARE politically active.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. It is an issue.

The question is how exactly to address it.

[MoonRiver]

23. I don't know.

I think it will be an issue whether or not Kerry takes it on. The Spain "problem" really seems to be freaking out our media whores. Kerry might want to comment on it though. He could say that the Spanish government lied to its people about the terrorists and the people expressed their outrage. That would be neutral enough, but also make a subtle comparison between those liars and *.