why I'm against dems contributing any more money to the "minor" candidates

[Bombtrack]

we all know that, for various reasons, Kucinich, Sharpton, and Braun, have from the beginning been seen, and continue to be seen as, not major candidates.

I can understand why, say, Kucinich supporters, would be upset and offended, by the medias hurd like mentality when it comes to this.

I also know that alot of people who understand that they can't win the nomination think that they should stay in because "people should here what they have to say" and to "diversify" the candidate field.

I can't say that the field wouldn't be less diverse or less left-wing if they did drop out. However, they're dropping out, or anyone elses dropping out(and their inability to win or tie a single primary other than DC I believe gives them the greatest incentive too) is the only way we're going to have ANY REAL DEBATE. People sending them pity money or, whatever-money are just keeping us with a too-big field that's unfair to the casual viewer to disect. And it hampers real debate in my and many others opinions.

Also, alot of people are waiting to donate their money until the nominee is chosen, so that instead of their money being a one out of 9(or one out of 6) gamble, it is used. So, in other words, why not spend your money on the eventaul nominees supplies, rather than Al Sharptons hotel room or Dennis Kucinich's hair gel(joke, I know he wouldn't spend campaign cash on personal products).

[Padraig18]

1. So I shouldn't have sent DK and CMB $100 each monday?

I disagree, and don't regret having sent either of them money.

[Bombtrack]

7. how is it not a waist of money? They're still going to be involved in the

final campaign, even if they aren't at the FINAL debates.

You won't even give credence to the many, many, democrats who would like to see a debate that isn't made up of soundbites?

[Padraig18]

9. I don't give a damn!

it's MY money, and I'll donate when and to whom I choose. Fuck 'em if they don't like it.

[salin]

22. you have no RIGHT to spend your money as you choose

you must follow the directions of the dictatorial ones who get to select which candidates are worthy and which are not - long before the first primary vote is cast.

Oh - but don't mention rolling back tax cuts.. that might make some cede control of other folks on how a small part of their money is spent.

No irony there, eh.

[Padraig18]

24. *grin*

:hi:

[Don Claybrook]

31. Off-topic, but you made me laugh

I glanced at your thread and thought I saw the phrase "rolling tax cuts" and just for a second, I had horrible visions of some new Bush policy modeled on the California (manufactured) energy crisis, whereby taxes might be cut in various, wealthy parts of the country with no warning. I hope they're not reading this--it may be policy tomorrow.

OK, I'll go and be serious now. :)

[salin]

36. LOL

very humorous visual ... but don't give rove any ideas... then again I left the Bay Area and am back in Indiana - so I might get a rolling tax cut... but then again I live in a more liberal leaning area so I am would still likely get the hike to pay for the rolling cut...

[stinkeefresh]

8. you did? right on!

That's great. They are two leaders whose careers I shall follow closely until one of them does make it to the white house. I love them both. (I think my mom is in love with DK and I might have a we crush on CMB)

still a Dean supporter, though

[Padraig18]

14. I did.

Carol is an acquaintance from IL Dem politics, and I also want DK to stay in to keep the party from going any further right than it has.

[salin]

23. I have donated to 4 of the candidates - including all three listed in the

OP. And I am damn glad to have done so.

[Padraig18]

26. I've donated to all but 2.

And I'm not going to start a flame war by saying which 2. :)

[salin]

29. This morning I decided to donate to a fifth

you will still have me beat - but I do believe there are different roles that different candidates are playing right now that have significance both in the general election and how issues are portrayed in that election but also in other federal elections (re congress).

[Padraig18]

35. Exactly!

They have valuable parts to play, even if they do not win the nod. I'm a brine-boiled, 'back of the yards' Chicago-ward politics graduate, and there is ALWAYS a part for everyone to play. :thumbsup:

[aquart]

51. And we need to hear their voices and ideas.

I'm impressed by both of them.

[HFishbine]

2. Kerry at 4% nationally, below Moseley Braun's 6%

Does that make him a "minor" candidate yet?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

[Padraig18]

6. Yeah, but he's Caucasian and male..

:P

[redqueen]

33. Bwahahahahahahahaha!

Dang, Padraig! That cracked me up. :)

(and a special thank you for your donations to the two other campaigns you mentioned... :yourock: )

[Padraig18]

38. Thanks!

I'm just glad to be able TO donate. :)

[Bombtrack]

15. But he could also get a strong second in IO and NH

and win some New England primaries, or even NH, if the news starts reporting Dean's stupid comments as much as they do the "inevitablity" of his nomination

[Padraig18]

17. Yeah, and purple monkeys COULD fly outta my ass, too!

But I don't think it''s likely. Kerry: stcik a fork in him--he's done.

[HFishbine]

21. Sharpton could get a strong second in SC

He's tied for second with Clark at 12%. Kerry's at 2%.

Who's the arbiter of "minor" candidates?

http://americanresearchgroup.com/sc/

[salin]

27. unlike your broadcasting of who should get out now - but not using the

numbers due to broadcasting the likelihood (ala soft form of inevitability) of specific candidates (in a subjective manner) performing at a certain level in early primaries. Again - lots of inconsistency.

[revcarol]

3. Democracy should thrive on diverse opinions and platforms.

'nuf said.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. The debate we would have were they to drop out

would center on the issues that a handful of WHITE MEN think are or should be relevant. That may be a debate for you...for me it isn't. Al Sharpton has contributed immensely to the process by distinguishing the concerns of his community from the hegemonistic influences of the Clarence Thomases of the world.

It is pretty clear you really don't care for debate...you'd like to bully anyone out of the race that doesn't mold it to your issues and the issues of a handful of white men.

[Don Claybrook]

5. So, no $ to anyone but Dean and Clark?

Why am I reminded of Bill O'Reilley saying, "Take his mic! Shut up, shut up, shut up!"

[Bombtrack]

19. there are realistic scenarios where all other candidates than those 3

could get the nomination. They(DK, AS, CMB) are beyond being a longshot.

[Don Claybrook]

25. Maybe you should apply

for that new First Amendment Czar position. There ought to be limits to free speech, you know. That's what our President says, anyway.

[salin]

32. Why are you not including Edwards in your list?

In most polls his numbers are comparable to the ones you choose to single out.

Oh - its subjective...

[HFishbine]

41. Because then Kerry would have to be included

as he is one point behind Edwards in the latest national poll.

[Bombtrack]

43. not in state polls

.

[Padraig18]

44. By that standard...

Al Sharpton is not a 'minor candidate', because he's in 2nd in SC @ 12% (Kerry polls at 2% in SC, by the way)...

[salin]

45. interesting point...

proving again - that at this point most folks 'prognostications' are more subjective than anything else.

[judy]

10. I disagree also...

I have sent $$ and encouraging emails to DK, who is my favorite candidate.
Let the chips fall where they may at the convention. How do you know anyone is a "minor" candidate anyway ? Is it from the famous "polls" we keep reading about? Polls don't mean a thing.
In my view, DK is a major candidate, the only one with a clear message, the one that speaks for my views the most.

However, I'm 100% ABB with whomever wins the nomination! I will vote for a used gum wrapper against Smirkolini.

[BobbyJay]

11. I'm against a blatant waste of money.

[aquart]

52. Not your money.

By all means, be smart and frugal with your own.

[Bombtrack]

12. Yeah, that's it everyone I'm a racist, you got me

Jesus, they've all been at(unless they missed it) every single debate so far

[maddezmom]

13. disagree

Ya know, it's my money and I'll send it to the candidates I think can use it.

[salin]

16. whatever. screw you people who think you ought to have a choice

in the primaries to have the freedom to vote for your choice rather than who bombtrack deems as includable in the smaller group. I note that Edwards - whose numbers are similar in most places isn't included in the list of those should get out. Just demonstrates even such suggestions are subjective - nothing more.

[Jerseycoa]

18. No and not funny

I'm happy to give bits of money as I can to a hero like Dennis Kucinich.

When the candidates and their supporters feel it is time, it will be time and not before. It does no good to probe this like a sore tooth.

[beyurslf]

20. I;m not against it.

It is their money. Let them do with it as they see fit. I personally have given some to Dean but I am saving back more until I know the nominee. I don't want to give it to somone just to pick fights on other Dems.

[Bombtrack]

30. wow, first non hostile post, thank you

I just share an opinion I've heard from many casual watchers of one or 2 debates, that they aren't real debates because there are so many candidates.

[lcordero]

28. If those three were out, I would be out.

I wouldn't be a Democrat right now.

[DFLforever]

34. I don't think you're right about this point:

"However, they're dropping out, or anyone elses dropping out(and their inability to win or tie a single primary other than DC I believe gives them the greatest incentive too) is the only way we're going to have ANY REAL DEBATE."

I think DK, Carol, and Al Sharpton have ADDED CONSIDERABLY TO THE DEBATE. Because none is likely to win the nomination, they are able to speak with a candor no 'serious' contender can; when the field is winnowed, I think we'll find the debates have become even more vapid in terms of issues.

[Cheswick2.0]

37. though I am no longer a fan of DK.....

I think all three should stay in as long as they want and I might send some money to Carol again real soon.

PS... I don't suppose you care about me taking you seriously and that is fine, however I have to tell you that Christopher Hitchens is an asshole and the new darling of the right. Quoting him in your sig line probably doesn't help your argument here on DU.

[mgc1961]

39. I respect your opinion,...

but Mr. Kucinich is the candidate who best represents me and I suspect the majority of underrepresented citizens. So, I support him without reservation. With that in mind, I made another contribution to his campaign today.

As for the "minor" candidates, you seem to be defining "minor" and "major" by how much money they have, not on how well they represent the citizens of this great nation. What of those candidates whose personal pockets are so deep they can "make" themselves "major" candidates by using personal funds? That's part of the reasons why I never considered voting for Perot. Do I vote for someone who buys the election with other people's money or their own money? Clearly, in my opinion, the former of those two options is the best.

As for the idea that there are too many platforms to consider, IMHO information is a good thing because I prefer read/reflect over see/react.

May the best candidate prevail, not the richest. Go Dennis!

:-)

[Gingersnap]

40. this attitude is ridiculous

To me, sending money to the only political candidate that I've ever felt represents my stance on the issues nearly 100% isn't a "waste" even if that person doesn't get the nomination. I'm frankly disgusted by the attitude represented in the original post.

This sort of mentality of the Democratic party (resistance is futile, we mustn't have a lot of opinions to chose from, it only "confuses" voters and distracts them from the candidates that the poster thinks are the only ones worthy of being heard, etc.) is what pushes many people out of politics altogether. What makes you think that the Kucinich and MB and Sharpton donors would want to donate to Clark or Dean or whoever the eventual nominee that you've forecast will win? I'm sorry, but being condescended to in the is way by my fellow Dems makes me feel inclined to go Green.

Don't flame me yet--I don't want Bush to win and supporting who I chose in the primaries is my right and doesn't mean I won't vote for whoever gets the nomination. But you know what, attitudes such as the one you posted reinforce why I'll probably donate to the Greens while voting for the Dem nominee.

Geez, I thought we were supposed to be the inclusive party.

/rant over/

[salin]

42. hey don't worry - the irony

is that some who support this particular view (that the field should be winnowed even before the elections)... also support the view that if a particular candidate were to win democratically (that is - through the primary process) they wouldn't vote for the democrat for president. So while you support for the right reasons - a candidate not deemed as a 'front runner' but pledge support in the long haul to the cause of pushing bush out of the white house - there are those who would demean your right to support now the candidate of your choice - who would work against getting bush out of the whitehouse if their favorite guy to dislike - were to get the nomination.

A number of those sentiments have been floated around the forums by various folks - and the irony never ceases to amaze me.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

46. You've inspired me to send DK another $20!

Thanks!

[revcarol]

48. Yeah, Dennis is the "beans and rice" candidate:

the only one IMHO to be worth really making personal sacrifices for.
Will contribute tonight on line if I don't get to talk to him.

My momma always told me: "Money isn't everything." Some things are worth personal sacrifice, and whether I should sacrifice is up to ME.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

53. "only candidate worth making personal sacrifices for"

I agree 100%.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

47. I understand what you're saying, but...

In my opinion, the candidates you mentioned are adding a lot more to the debate than some of the more "mainstream" candidates. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three candidates whose absence would enrich the debates immensely, but they're all polling somewhere in the middle and, I'm sure, will stay in it for the long haul.

I feel like the field is much too crowded too, but I have no idea what kind of criteria I could impose to thin the ranks. The only thing I could think of would be to weed out the candidates who are ideologically similar (and therefore redundant), but that's largely a matter of perspective; there are people out there who view Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich as identical candidates, and there are also people out there who view Howard Dean and Joe Lieberman as identical candidates.

So who knows? I sure don't.

[rucky]

49. Because DK is running ads that blast Bush

n/t

[Iverson]

50. Remove those token liberals! They endanger debate!

"I can't say that the field wouldn't be less diverse or less left-wing if they did drop out. However, they're dropping out, or anyone elses dropping out(and their inability to win or tie a single primary other than DC I believe gives them the greatest incentive too) is the only way we're going to have ANY REAL DEBATE."

By what fantastic pretense does removing Kucinich, Sharpton, and CMB not make the field less left-wing?

It says a disappointingly great deal that the original poster believes that ANY REAL DEBATE (sic) demands the removal of the token liberals.

[IndianaGreen]

54. Who do you think you are, Ted Koppel?

I am hearing the same line of offensive bullshit that Koppel said during ABC's Iowa debate.

People must support the candidate which best represents their views.

Screw the pundits! Screw the media! Screw the doomsayers and their self-fulfilling prophesies about a candidate's "electability"!

[Padraig18]

55. He doesn't think he's Ted Koppel.

He just wants anyone and everyone who isn't John Kerry to go away...

[Myra]

56. Agree IndianaGreen

One Koppel is one more than we need.
Two Koppels is...two much.