Dean in Iowa: "I'm the Only Candidate from a Farm State!" Truth or Pander?

[Raya]

CNN just reported that Dean is in IOWA campaigning as "the only
candidate from a farm state."

Gephart takes exception. Vermont -- 7,000 farms. Missouri 100,000 +.



Didn't Kucinich just correct Dean about "Only Candidate to Oppose The War."

When will this Dean "tell them what they want to hear" stop.

Am I crazy to be concerned?

Will Dean disavow this practice when the gets to the white house?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Democrats unite]

5. Dean seems to be the only one doing it.

eom

[Padraig18]

8. Whatever.

I'm done participating in partisan hack-job, flame bait thredas.

Have fun by yourselves.

[diamondsoul]

14. Ahh, Padraig,

for all my personal views of Dean, I'm getting a chuckle over this one. Come on, friend, laugh it off. Gep's been a complete jack*ss over Dean's status from the git-go, why would he quit now? Phhht! Meaningless drivel when your candidate was right.

[Padraig18]

22. True.

Thanks for the reality check! :hug:

[5thGenDemocrat]

68. Maybe Dean meant he was the only MAJOR candidate from a farm state

Happy New Year, Padraig. You've been a champ in the Dean camp.
John
Onward to November!

[Padraig18]

70. Happy New Year, John!

:hi::party:

[retyred]

12. Who else has made the "I'm the only one" claim?

Just asking.


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. don't bother...the dean supporters don't like pesky questions.

defending their candidate's lies...oh..excuse me...puffery, has worn them out before the first vote is cast.

[Padraig18]

26. For the record:

It was a CNN report that essentially said "so and so said that Gov. Dean said..." . Ever hear of hearsay? I prefer quotes, myself.:eyes:

[jsw_81]

38. Winning without the South

I checked your map and found that Dean wins the election if he carries the Gore states plus AZ and NV. Or, the Gore states plus OH. I'm not saying that Dean should just give up on the South (he shouldn't; we have a decent shot in FL if Graham is on the ticket, not to mention AR and LA), but he can get elected without the South. Frankly, we don't need the South to win. The Republicans do.

[Turkw]

114. Georga-part of the South, was won by Gore, a swing state, is not locked in

You cannot say, we don't need to win in the South, because Gore took two of the bigger southern states- the biggest, florida, was given to Bush.

[Kahuna]

51. "Puffery?" That's a good one isn't it.

:wtf:

[Kahuna]

47. C'mon now. "Puffery?" If that doesn't beat all?

Now were calling lies, "puffery."

[HFishbine]

50. There was a lie?

Who lied?

[Myra]

2. Perhaps you misunderstood. They probably said "only candidate."

Because the media says what it wishes.

[diamondsoul]

21. No kidding, Myra!

Show me a direct quote in print, and then maybe we can talk. Even then the sources have to be considered. (Hence my willingness to concede the points of lacking evidence about the Iraq War flyer and looking into it further.)

[OrAnarch]

3. hmmm....

Probably gotta break out statistics to determine this and a dictionary for "farm state"


Per capita, is 100,000 not many? Missouri has more people most definately

Is it bout industrialization per land area? Missouri may have much more.

Or percentage of land area dedicated to farms? Vermont may have much higher percentage, but I am not sure.


I think wed have to define farm state and look at a few extra statistics than quantity to be sure if Dean slipped up. No clue. Too lazy.

[Brian_Expat]

4. Farming is Vermont's primary industry.

No other person running for president can say that about their state.

[dsc]

6. Over half of MO lives in two urban areas

and they don't farm. Vermont has way more of its citizens on farms (in percentage terms) than MO. Gephardt represents an urban district.

[loyalsister]

115. Exactly

Also, the real irony here is Gep is not counting on the farmers to vote for him. Guns are the issue for the rural dems. He is looking only at the cities for his votes. His statement here is ridiculous, because Missouri isn't primarily a "farm" state anymore than it is primarily an "urban" state. It is a patchwork state. The point is inarguable because it's a mix.

[Sean Reynolds]

7. Missouri also has A LOT more people than Vermont.

MO's largest cities are St. Louis and Kansas City, both metros of these cities are larger than the state of Vermont as a whole. Thus, Vermont has more farms per capita than Missouri, Dean was right. Gephardt was wrong.

[diamondsoul]

10. ROTFL

Well I'd yell technicality, but damn, this cannot be called a lie, can it?:toast: Well done!

[Brian_Expat]

25. Farming is Vermont's primary industry

It's like Apple saying it's the only company when compared whose primary revenues are from personal computers, and IBM coming back and saying "liar! We sell lots of PCs."

Well sure, IBM sells lots of PCs, but that's not its PRIMARY business (its server business and professional services business are both larger). Ditto for the Vermont (Apple) and Missouri (IBM) comparison.

Of course, that won't stop people from nitpicking Dean from within the party, even after he's won the nomination and election. I am not too concerned about that, though, since I suspect he'll be bringing along lots of new voters to make up for the dismal Dems who pick him apart.

[diamondsoul]

65. Honestly, I'm a bit worried

about his ability to win the GE (and possibly the nomination) right now, and I personally have other preferences, but listen I'm not an unreasonable jerk either. Gep has been a complete pig for a long time now. He doesn't even live up to his own promises so to go after Dean now is pure hypocrisy.

To go after Dean for a truthful statement is just....well stupid! There are a LOT of farms in Ohio, but it isn't a "farm state" by any stretch. Same with Indiana and Illinois. All three are industrial states primarily.

I think also I've been mis-rating my choices. Gep has been at rock bottom for a while, and mainly because of ridiculous attacks against Dean.

[dnbmathguy]

117. Per Capita?

Vermont - 5828 farms (source: Farmland Info), Population: 613,090 (source: Census)

Farms Per Capita = Population/# of Farms = 105.2

Missouri - 98860 farms (source: Farmland Info), Population: 5,629,707 (source: Census)

Farms Per Capita = Population/# of Farms = 56.9

Interpreting these results, there is one farm for every 105 people in Vermont, and one farm for every 57 people in Missouri. While Missouri might have a larger population, there are also many more farms. Missouri has almost 85% more farms per capita than Vermont.

[jmaier]

9. This is a really silly issue

and it's also a pretty silly statement. I keep gettin reminded why politicians often can get annoying. I wish they ALL would stick with the important stuff.


Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[Democrats unite]

13. I am with you...

This thread is going the way of a 2nd grade class fight.

[FubarFly]

16. Of course this is a report by an avowed Dean opponent

based on a report by the always reliable CNN whose report seems to have relied on a paraphrase rather then a direct quote.

Filter much?

[Loren645]

97. But every word that disgruntled former supporters must be posted on DU!

Esp if they used to work for Clark and got their feelings hurt.

[HFishbine]

11. Take it up with CNN

They said it, not Dean.

[jobycom]

15. Well, as someone who's very pessimistic about our candidates

That was one of the first things that turned me off to Dean. He says what we want to hear, but I don't truly hear what he believes. At least that's my gut reaction. And I really want to believe in him, too.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

24. Exactly.

Most of Vermont is rural, its largest city is Burlington with a population of 38,889.

Vermont has MORE farms per capita than the whole state of Missouri.

[bornskeptic]

43. For the record,

not that it has any significance, but from 1990 census statistics(since I couldn't find anything more recent), the percentage of the population living on farms for the candidates' home states.

Missouri 3.5%
Arkansas 2.7%
Vermont 2.1%
Illinois 1.8%
North Carolina 1.8%
Ohio 1.8%
New York 0.5%
Massachusetts 0.2%
Connecticut 0.2%

http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/00ccdb/cc00_tabA10.pdf

[NashVegas]

54. I'm Always Looking for That fine Missouri Cheese ..

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, population differs from acreage.

I do think it's probably going to be a 'doh!' moment for Dean, but we'll see.

[killbotfactory]

31. All that matters is the number of farms...

I guess...

This all goes to show that Dean has a dangerous habit of saying truthful things...

[sfecap]

18. Am I crazy to be concerned?

No.

Be very concerned.

This statement could be the one that sinks the Dean flotilla. This very well could be it.

Most Americans who vote are extremely concerned about which state has the most farms. It is a very hot issue. Polls show that 84.5% of voters are very focused on this particular issue. It's a biggie. Yep.

Dean is doomed if he truly believes that Vermont is a rural, farm state.

Besides, he's peaked too soon.

[Brian_Expat]

28. Don't forget. . .

Dean's campaign is being run by Vermont's homosexual clique, which has been the secret nefarious source of all his funding so far! :wow:

That's right -- the source of Dean's power is MARRIED HOMOSEXUAL FARMERS! :evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

30. Hmmm...

I'm as married as a homosexual can get, but I don't farm. Do I mess up the demographics? :P

[sfecap]

35. Awwww...

...you told!

It was supposed to be a secret!

Merry New Year Brian!

[HFishbine]

52. Actually, polls show that 99% of voters

don't like poop.

[Padraig18]

55. They also show that 99.44%...

... don't give a flying F*** whether Dean said it, or not. :P

[rucky]

19. Oh yeah, well MY dad was a toothless sharecropper

[HFishbine]

59. Is he single?

My mom's a toothless hag.

[izzie]

23. It is true if you are from NE. Vt is a farm state.

Have anyone of you ever been to VT?

[zulchzulu]

75. Massachusetts has about 6,000+ farms

Thanks Howard. The people from Massachusetts will love to know that the 6,000 farms in that state are nothing to speak of.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FarmandRelatedEmployment/ViewData.asp?GeoAreaPick=STAMA_massachusetts

[maddezmom]

77. bet there are a few in Edward's neck of the woods, too.

[TexasPatriot]

27. hehe...

he does seem to do this a lot...
i wonder what he'll say next - it's almost comic.

maybe he's the only yale graduate in the race
(for some reason, i think the Kerry supporters would just shake their heads)

[revcarol]

29. Pander.

next question?

[robbedvoter]

32. "I'm the only candidate talking about race" - dem debate

Sharpton's expression was priceless on that one

[robbedvoter]

33. I hate to agree with David Brooks, but...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4258653.html

 
My moment of illumination about Howard Dean came one day in Iowa when I saw him lean into a crowd and begin a sentence with, "Us rural people ... ."

Howard Dean grew up on Park Avenue and in East Hampton. If he's a rural person, I'm the Queen of Sheba. Yet he said it with conviction. He said it uninhibited by any fear that someone might laugh at or contradict him.

It was then that I saw how Howard Dean had liberated himself from his past, liberated himself from his record and liberated himself from the restraints that bind conventional politicians. He has freed himself to say anything, to be anybody.

[killbotfactory]

34. He's lived in a rural farm state since 1980

How much longer does he have to do so before he can call himself "rural"?

[dsc]

36. By Brook's standard

Willie Brown was a country boy when he was Speaker of California's Assembly.

[jsw_81]

37. Vermont is the only rural state represented in the race

Missori (Gephardt) and Ohio (Kucinich) can hardly be called rural. Vermont, however, is overwhelmingly rural. Its largest "city" is smaller than the average American suburb.

[Bombtrack]

41. Arkansas biggest city is Little Rock, hardy a metropolis

It's as rural as Vermont is.

[TexasPatriot]

42. ahh, but Paris Hilton has been there

i doubt she's been to Vermont.

;)

[BootinUp]

44. LOL! n/t

[Bombtrack]

74. Dean comes from the same circles as Paris Hilton

he's a Hamptons/ivy league prepschool and college/ park avenue establishment snob

the snob part is my editorial, the rest is fact

[jsw_81]

45. Metro Little Rock has around 1 million people

Burlington has ~40,000.

[Tummler]

89. Huh??

Greater Little Rock is a metropolitan area covering four counties in Central Arkansas with a 2000 estimated population of 572,055. At the heart of the area is Little Rock, the state capitol and Arkansas' largest city with a population of 183,133, and North Little Rock, the state's third largest community, with a population of 60,433.

http://www.littlerockchamber.com/glance/glance_population.html

[jsw_81]

101. That's interesting

I googled and found a page showing Little Rock with a metro population of around a million. I guess it was wrong.

[Zomby Woof]

39. typical Dean bullshit

Not only pandering, but lying, full of shit, and moronic.

Goodbye Dean in 2004.

[jsw_81]

46. Moronic?

Voting for a joke like Dennis Kucinich and spending billions on a laughable "Department of Peace" is moronic.

[zulchzulu]

78. Nice off-topic attack on DK

I think the thread was about Dean sticking his foot in his mouth again on his statement that he's the only candidate from a rural state with farms and such.

[jsw_81]

100. Well

A Kucinich supporter said that Dean was "full of shit" and moronic. You think I'm going to let them get away with that?

[Bread and Circus]

108. Actually a Dept of Peace would be cool...

DK is a liberal's liberal and seems to have run
his campaign respectfully...

"Anything to Win Dean" is not my idea of a good candidate.

[Kahuna]

48. You gotta admit Zomby... This guy's are even bigger..

than dumbya's. This is bad. This is really bad. I can't take it any more. What I don't want is another unrepentant liar in the white house.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NashVegas]

57. It's not the # of posts

it's what you do with them, she said to the writer of the blank box.

[Kahuna]

61. I'm no Zomby sychophant, but Zombywolf is not, I assure you..

a republican. And it may not be the number of posts, but it is the rules. You cannot call another DUer a republican.

[Zomby Woof]

118. if that's the case

95% of my posts are anti-GOP and Bush, and the remaining 5% are divided between yaks, coffee, music, and telling the truth about Dean. ;-)

[Bucky]

71. 100% of REAL Democrats back Dean. 100% I say. Yipes, they're coming for me

PNAC ninjas in Modlib disguises have just jumped thru my window and are attacking me! I must fight them off before they force me to vote for Lieberman!! Kiii-yaaaa!! Back off, evil doers!




Send me a DU private message ( ) to become a Teacher for Clark
Teachers for Clark beta site

[Padraig18]

72. LOL!

Thank God for some humor. :hi:

[diamondsoul]

67. Ok, whoah!

From a fellow Kucinich avid supporter, how is this one a lie?? Looks truthful by my definition of a "farm state".

[Zomby Woof]

120. the definition of farm state

What IS a farm state? California has more acreage of farmland than any other state, so if that were the definition, then California is a farm state.

As someone else said, Arkansas and Missouri have a lot of farm land, and let's not forget Edwards is from tobacco and farm country.

I suppose he was reaching for a relative definition based on urban vs rural land, but that is not even clever by half.

Vermont is certainly less urbanized than any of the states being represented, but it by no means monopolizes the elastic definition of what a "farm state" is.

Dean is just pandering for Iowa votes. That is because running as the "offshore alternative for captive insurance state" candidate is less appealing to the good folks of Iowa.

[Bombtrack]

40. So for all those years the North Carolina tobacco farmers have been lying

must have been running meth labs instead

[HFishbine]

56. NC

Has a lot of farms, but most of the economic activity (jobs and income) is from the service and manufacturing sectors.

[Kahuna]

62. Well then tell us how a candidate with a "farm economy"

can address the economy and concerns of a diverse population such as the US has?

[HFishbine]

73. I'm not sure I get you

If any particular state can be defined as having predominately an agriculture economy, a tourism economy, a manufacturing economy, a service economy or a high tech economy, are you asking how a candidate from any such state can address the concerns of businesses not dominant in his home state?

[tsipple]

58. Isn't Gephardt from St. Louis?

They grow beer there.

Uhhhhhhhhh.... Beer..... :evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

60. They brew beer is St. Louis?

:evilgrin:

[RUexperienced]

63. Dean is making very hard for us all to come together

after the primaries.

[Padraig18]

64. Harder than Joe Lieberman is? Or Dick Gephart is? Or john Kerry is, etc.?

:eyes:

[robbedvoter]

66. These guys are likely out, so it's a bad cop out. This was about HD

Antagonized many, and not just the GOP.

[Padraig18]

69. Until they're out, they're in.

It's like virginity-- you either are, or you aren't. :shrug:

[robbedvoter]

105. Still a bad cop out. This thread is about what dean said.

[zulchzulu]

76. I'm losing track on the Dean gaffes in the last couple days

There are so many!

Dean just gave Gephardt and Kerry another very nice belated Christmas present. A Dean gaffe just keeps giving and giving.

Thanks!

[mzmolly]

81. Im losing track of Dean being misquoted/misrepresented

Im losing track of stories with out links accusing Dean of ???

[oasis]

92. Gephardt's campaign manager refered to Dean as "Gaffe-A- Day".

[zulchzulu]

79. Define "farm state"

Let's just say that Vermont has about 7,000 farms; Massachusetts has about 6,000 or so; Missouri has about 100,000. Check out the map.

You decide if Dean is pandering or not.

[mzmolly]

80. Links to stories are always nice...

:)

[incapsulated]

82. Why?

Why does Dean continually use that "I'm the only..." line?

*sigh*

 
 
 

[JaneQPublic]

83. CNN got it wrong. He wasn't in IA but WI. And he didn't say...

...he was the only candidate from a farm state."

Read the article from the local Wisconsin paper:

http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_13929087.shtml

[maddezmom]

84. "I understand farm issues. Nobody else comes from a farm state....

I understand health issues because I’m a doctor. I know how to get jobs because I was a governor for almost 12 years.”>>

that's the quote.

[mzmolly]

87. That's "IT" all the hoopla over "THAT"

LOL. My they *are* getting desperate. I imagine if I examined every nuance spoken by Gep/Kerry/Kucinich, I'd have plenty of ammo if this is the standard for 'scandal'...

[WiseMen]

85. I saw this story. Both CNN and Gephart represented statement. Both Wrong?

Maybe.

[Tummler]

96. Of course they're wrong

Only DEAN has the truth!

[DemBones DemBones]

86. Dean: A Legend In His Own Mind eom

[mzmolly]

88. And in the mind of most Democratic voters...

hence the polls. :)

[incapsulated]

90. Not Quite...

"most Democratic voters"?

Consider Dean a legend??

And I thought you had to have over %50 percent of a vote or something to be able to say "most voters"?

:P


 
 

[Bread and Circus]

109. no, he has never been over 50%

[SahaleArm]

91. Who's really in a Farm state? Employment numbers...

1997 Data - Total farm & farm-related employment

IA - 22.2%
AR - 20.8%
WI - 17.4%
VT - 16.5%
MO - 16.3%
OH - 13.7%
IL - 13.6%
MA - 12.3%
CT - 11.0%

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FarmandRelatedEmployment/ViewData.asp?GeoAreaPick=STAAR_arkansas

http://www.ers.usda.gov/data/RuralMapMachine/

[Kahuna]

93. I take it those numbers are "per capita."

:evilgrin:

[SahaleArm]

94. Percentage of total employment which makes more sense...

What percentage of people make their money working on farms.

[Tummler]

95. Arkansas isn't a farm state?

That's funny: I could have sworn that the largest poultry producer in the world was based in lil' ol' Arkansas.

[Capn Sunshine]

98. Largest corporate farms in the world.

Exxon is the single largest landowner in Arkansas

[SahaleArm]

102. Corporate Farms?

Like this:

Vermont Lost a Farm Every Four Days During Dean’s Tenure; Canadian Egg Farm Invited To Vermont and Hurts Vermont Family Farmers While Dean Failed to Enforce Law Regulating Large Farms.

http://www.gazetteonline.com/iowacaucus/candidate_news/kerry30.aspx

"If I sound like a populist, I come by it honestly as the governor of a state devastated by corporate agriculture," Howard Dean said.

[Cheswick2.0]

99. "Am I crazy to be concerned? "

I would never call you crazy, those are your words, I think they might be a bit extreme.
Come join the Dean campaign. We don't have sour grapes on the menu.

[corporatewhore]

103. Pure Pander

[snyttri]

104. At least Dean is the only white candidate to talk about race before white

audiences. Or was that an earlier denial and take back? (We're going to take our statements back!)

[robbedvoter]

106. I do hope you said it sarcastically...My hangover dulls my radar for fine

irony - so If I missed it, I'll slap my head in advance.

[Bread and Circus]

112. Dean is the only one....

Who was ever against the Iraq War
Talking race to white audiences
From a "farm state"
Not "Republican Lite"
Not "Bush Lite"
Not "soft" on GOPism

--

I know he is just trying to win an election but sheesh

[Cheswick2.0]

107. Dean is correct

since Gephardt isn't exactly a candidate anymore so much as a tool for the ABD "movement".

[Bread and Circus]

110. I am also a tool of the ABD movement, so by your definition...

I am no longer an American Citizen or Voter.

I love it how Dean and his supporters have the arrogance
to label everyone.

[Cheswick2.0]

113. cheer up

payback jokes are hell, but it is nothing to get your panties in a twist over.

[Skwmom]

111. It's called a lie.

When someone makes a statement that they know is not true it is called lying. A person who lies is dishonest. Spin use to be the buzz word, I guess it's now pander.

[Hep]

116. Who cares?

Just keep the camera on Dean. You gave me my christmas present. I get about a dozen of them every day.

[jpgpenn]

119. NONE of the above, it's a LIE!

one of many that has been happening as of late from the Dean camp!!:puke:

[ErasureAcer]

121. I agree

the question is though is what is the backlash against Dean for his lies?

Are people still going to support him against Bush, if Dean gets the nomination?

I know I won't be. You can't lie to and mislead potential voters for the democratic nomination and then ask these people to vote for you after you lied about their candidate...

that's just not right.

It is my hope that people will hold Dean accountable for his actions.

We don't need another liar in the white house.

[adadem]

122. No backlash

he has a legion of well trained apologists.