I can no longer support Howard Dean.

[Renew Deal]

I can no longer vote for this man. First he railed against the special interests, now he is a special interest. If you don't see the hypocrisy, you must be blind. I bet you even once talked about the homestead act.

:argh:

[WillyBrandt]

1. Isn't Howard Dean the guy who supported Mind Control Techniques?

It always brings a smile to me when someone brings up the Homestead Act. That was always my favorite :)

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[WillyBrandt]

3. A Clark Supporter Joke

A tombstoned DUer who trashed Clark left and right would write these long rambling posts attacking Clark because he once referenced the Homestead Act in a speech as an example of federal action. It was an innocuous, even neutral reference; but in this poster's hands it somehow meant that Clark was out to set up a Total State and enslave us all.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[WillyBrandt]

7. Yeah, it was one of many

Another said Clark used mind control techniques.
Another linked Clark to supposed experiments that supposedly gave Haitian men breasts

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Dookus]

13. ah, the Haitian man-tits argument

one of my all time favorites.

[no name no slogan]

37. Hmmm.....Haitian Man-Tits?

Do you have to be Haitian to get those, or are they equal-opportunity man-tits?

[bobthedrummer]

30. I warned of the possibility of neo-con moles in his campaign staff

myself, and the possibility of long-term damage to the Democratic Party from a Wes Clark presidency.

I have concerns about the influence of the neo-con dominated Pentagon during every serviceperson's military career, especially Wes Clark's-he mentioned his experiences working with them positively, and even remarked on looking forward to working with them again favorably.

Now I think he would make a fine VP for Kerry to recruit.

LOL, and I'm an independent Kucinich type guy until the official nomination at the convention.

[WillyBrandt]

32. A specimin above...

[Dr Fate]

5. Vote for him? He endorses Kerry.

He's not even running anymore...

[Blueshift]

6. Dean isn't running anymore...

how could you vote for him?

[BurtWorm]

9. It's some obscure inside joke.

Not intended for everybody. ;)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

12. Why, are you a Dark?

You have that name. ;) Actually, I am an atheist, secular humanist type. That may be the subconscious reason I chose the avatar I did. Are you a Bright?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

17. I thought I understood (pardon us for highjacking this thread, B7)

you can be a UU and a Bright. You can even be an atheist and a UU, from what I understand. I thought it was a bit like New England Zen, more of a philosophy than a doctrinal religion. Maybe that's just my stereotyped misapprehension.

By the way, I'm not crazy about that term Bright. I never describe myself that way.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

20. It did, thank you!

:toast:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

23. Welcome to DU, by the way.

:hi:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

28. Who the hell can blame you!

You picked a good time to delurk!

[newyawker99]

39. Hi Blueshift!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[countmyvote4real]

11. Funny how when he announced his new organization would help

support local Dem candidates without any experience, I thought of you. Are you not special enough? What's the deal?

[Renew Deal]

15. It's a joke.

I am just having a little fun.

[countmyvote4real]

25. Thanks for the clue. I enjoy fun, but don't always recognize it.

WillyB can attest to the latter part of that.

[WillyBrandt]

27. The truth is some of us just have weird senses of humor

We can't rightly expect all the world to adapt to our sense of funny :)

[countmyvote4real]

29. And I thought I was warped

Just kidding. (I hope that translates as fun.)

Thanks for acknowledging my make good. I'm glad that I didn't do the ignore thing.

[Adelante]

31. I can attest!

To WillyBrandt's weird sense of humor.

[Duncan Grant]

16. You gotta be kiddin' me?!

I've watched Howard Dean advocate for Sen. Kerry on MTP and Hardball (just tonight as a matter of fact). When will this shit end??

[RichM]

19. Why? What did Dean say that makes him a special interest?

:shrug:

[Renew Deal]

21. He is a PAC now.

it's a joke.

[SheilaT]

24. On the other hand,

for those of you still to vote in your primary or caucus, you could still vote for Howard Dean if you want to.

[John_H]

33. I'm writing him in

Because the supreme court, the lives of American soldiers, the economy,children, and the elderly don't matter one bit!!!

[factroid]

34. so . . .

. . . is it too radical or risky to consider support for Dennis Kucinich?

Just seeing what the currents are on here for this candidate, that I consider the only REAL progressive Democrat with close to 90%+ integrity. Of course, are we in the "anything to beat Bush" mode mainly? I can certainly understand that; however, in analyzing some possible scenarios, I am of the opinion that there is a possibility that BrushWorld may be sinking faster than some think. Come August (or perhaps sooner?) when the first 911 report comes out, I think Kerry may have a decisive lead, and maintain it through the election. THEN, the less 'alternative' and clear for real change he is, the worse at least "I" would feel, if I did not support someone more progressive (i.e. Kucinich). I notice that some likely staff appointees with Kerry are already tied into the Pentagon / Cheney / Wolfowitz / Defense Board imperialistic hawk crowd. Makes me think Kerry will not accomplish too much, especially if congress stays Republican dominated (likely).

I can see Kerry falling far short of expectations (some of which is unrealistic), as we cannot afford many progressive and infrastructure programs with the massive MIC and wars for oil (and some actual efforts to protect against terrorism), etc.. Maybe Kerry can attempt to slow down the drain of tax money to sweetheart LOGCAP deals and Cayman Island tax sheltering (some $150 billion or more / year)... Clinton at least managed to balance things to some degree - but the economy had not hit the rocks as much as it has now either, and if Kerry does not pull out of NAFTA, WTO and FTAA, CATF, etc.. jobs will not come back.

I see Americans being forced to face reality. Then, maybe they'll see that Kucinich (and Nader) are right... at least enough of us to start to move us in the right directions.

Any comments?

[SheilaT]

35. At this point, since Kerry has the

nomination sewn up, what matters is to get as many non-Kerry delegates to the convention as possible. If your state hasn't yet had its primary or caucus, try to get as many voters out as possible in the hopes of getting Kucinich or Dean or any other delegates selected. Here's a link to find out everything you've ever wanted to learn about the delegate selection process. http://www.dems2004.org/delegates/delegates.html
See if it's still possible for you to become a delegate from your state.

Kansas had its caucuses just this past Saturday (March 13) and Dean supporters in the Third Congressional District were out in enough force that we'll be sending one Dean delegate to the National convention. And, I've been told, the one alternate from our district to the national convention will also be a Dean delegate. At this point I'm a Dean delegate to the district caucus (which will be held April 3) and I've filed the paperwork to be able to run for delegate to the national convention. I know that at this point what matters is to keep Dean's ideas and vision out front of people, to prepare this country to make the kinds of changes it needs to make, especially in the wake of what Bush has done to this country.

[Nicholas_J]

36. What differnce doe it make to do that

There are no longer enough delegates left for anyone but Kerry to win. He has more than half of all of the avaialble delegates right now, so Dean or Kucinich hcould win every other delegate left, and Kerry is still the nominee. It take fifty percent plus one delegate to be the nominee, and Kerry already has passed that fifty percent plus one of the nominees. (He already has more than that in pledged nominees who cannot change their vote, so he is the nominee and no one can take that away from him now)

[factroid]

38. the difference

... is that voting for Kucinich sends a message to the Democratic Party that they have a serious block of voters that want REAL change.

[Nicholas_J]

43. Kucinich is no morevreal than the other candidates

His record on womens right to choose was attrocious until he decided he wanted to run for the presidency.He was very,very prone to allow his religious beliefs to influence his actual voting record. and while I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, his past record MUST be sbject to the same scrutiny than other cnadidates are being subject to. And his actual record can be found to be as wanting as any other candidate. All we have is Kucinich's word that he will behave differently as presiden or that his change of heart is real.

As I said, I am willing to take his word for it, but if one is willing to let one cnadidates past record slide, one should be fair enough to do the same for other candidates unless that record is massively flawed.

Kucinich not only voted against abortion, but in a number of cases agaisnt allowing federal employees insurance to provide them with birth control pills or other methods of birth control, and to prevent federal funds from being spent overseas if the provided information about birth control or even condoms.

There is much that is problematic about Kucinich, He is not the fair haired candidate for complete change that he is being made out to be, but his past record on some issues was rtather draconian.

[mzmolly]

40. I don't recall you being a huge Dean supporter? However there is one key

difference...ready...

Dean's so called *special interest* is THE AMERICAN PUBLIC! Which is who the Government is SUPPOSED to represent.

[nomaco-10]

41. Yeah, I've been racking my brain too.....

trying to figure out exactly when it was he ever supported Dean. I thought he was a Clark supporter. It is also interesting to note that the above mentioned poster shared an e-mail just the other day on this very board of the correspondence between himself and a repub congressman stating he wouldn't be voting for him this next "time".
Go figure.

[mzmolly]

44. LOL Dang... I missed that email thread. Go fig-r?

:hi:

[Hippo_Tron]

42. If Howard Dean ever manages to get out of debt himself...

Then he could be very useful as a fundraiser for Kerry.

[Zynx]

45. They finally did retire the debt.

[madfloridian]

46. And collected a lot for the new organization already.

Without a drive for it, just donations.