I am utterly speechless after watching John Kerry's 1971 testimony.

[bigtree]

To see him there at that moment and to realize how close he is to achieving the ultimate position of responsibility in our country has me floored. It took my breath away. I will be swelling with pride and elated with hope for the future when he becomes president.

[brainshrub]

1. I saw that speech on DemocracyNow!

I couldn't believe that this was the same man who voted for war with Iraq.

[bahrbearian]

2. His voteing record comes back to haunt him a lot.

[bigtree]

3. I don't disregard the views that he held then when I judge his actions now

That is why I won't ascribe the worst of motivations to his vote that he asserts was not to go to war, but to send the president back to the U.N. and forestall or avert war. The convictions that he held then contribute to his believability on that vote and his intentions now.

[jfxgillis]

4. Wasn't that. as we improper Bostonians say, "wicked good"?

I was almost crying.

Man. If we work hard enough, we can make that kid PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES.

President.

PRESIDENT!!!!!!

Holy fucking shit!! That guy has about a 50/50 chance (or a little better) of WINNING THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE.

Pardon my language.

I can get a little overexcited sometimes.

[bigtree]

6. That's it!!!!

Tears. Breathless. It was an amazing moment. The only way to truly express how it felt to see and hear that testimony would be through tears.

Man, do I want this story to end with Kerry in the White House.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. It was wicked awesome!

;-)

[jfxgillis]

33. Somebody's been watching the new--

Dunkin' Donuts-Curt Schilling ad!!

[flaminbats]

5. Will they show it again?

[bigtree]

7. I think 9:30

http://www.cspan.org

There's an introduction by Marvin Kalb.

[dogman]

8. I'm reminded why he was my first choice

before Clark entered the race. I had learned more about his voting record during the primary contest and wasn't so happy with him. I take Clark at his word when he says Kerry is qualified and seeing this has made me feel better about supporting him. I hope he remembers where he came from when he gets to the White House next year.

[eleny]

9. What ticked me off were the phone calls afterward

It was like a freeper convention. Didn't C-Span even have for and against phone lines? Maybe the againsts were calling both lines. Jeez, it was awful to hear them damning Kerry after his eloquent, heartfelt testimony.

[Catherine Vincent]

47. I was listening to the phone calls afterwards too.

It definitely was a repuke convention afterwards. They have the nerve to be disgusted by Kerry but yet they vote for somebody like GWBush. I guess with Clarke coming out with yet more damning stuff on their boy on 60 minutes, they had to all gather to C-Span to bash Kerry out of frustration.

[H2O Man]

10. It was powerful!

This country has some unfinished business from that era. Spirits from the past need to be dealt honestly with, in order that this nation can move forward. His testimony was honest. We have a weapon in this film; small wonder the republicans are trying to distort his "war protester" history.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. Just browse through the archives.

You will find massive numbers of threads on the subject. You won't even need to use the search function.

[H2O Man]

13. Just a thought.....

... this is my opinion. In much of the world's mythology, the (pre-)hero lives a common life of excess. Then, something happens. They are cast out of their comfortable life by forces beyond their control. They face supernatural forces, including the deep, dark waters of the collective unconscience, where these ancient forces take on symbolic forms. The weak drown and never return, so to speak. The strong swim back to the real world, and then live a different life, trying in some way to help the masses.
Kerry's S&B experience came off like an old snake skin. Vietnam was his journey. He's not perfect, but he is very impressive. Compare, if you will, the "journey" of bush to that of Kerry .... does the difference seem perhaps more stark when viewed in this context?

[cally]

15. Please post that as a separate thread

with maybe a little editing. I like your point and agree with it.

[H2O Man]

16. I am, sadly, not gifted with technology.

And have never posted my "own" thread. Not sure how. All I've ever done is added my 2 cents to others on here. If you could give an old man simple instructions, I'd try. Or you could use the thought. Thanks for liking the point & agreeing. I think it is an important distinction in the life history of the two men.

[cally]

17. Here's how

Go back to a forum like GD4. At the top is a list of words that are all link. Take your mouse and click on the Post one. Once you click on that it looks just like any of your other posts. That one starts a new thread. Have fun and I'll make sure I post for the next day or two in your thread.

[H2O Man]

23. Thank you!

I keep a small notebook handy to write down "instructions" from my children. (I pretended not to "like" computers for years. Actually, I was afraid I couldn't learn new technology. Old Dog Syndrome!) I suspect I can remember that easy enough. I appreciate your support. I have been thinking about putting up a few of my own ideas for a while.

[NightNurse]

38. Like Playboy MCain's "Stay" in the Hanoi Hilton.

I Agree.

[cally]

14. Find another way to criticize Kerry

just look at the history. We've discussed this. It has nothing to do with his testimony in 1971

[AmyStrange]

36. !!! WELCOME TO THE DU !!!

10) And best of all, check these out:

the best "unofficial" DU slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/

and the "First Seven Days Underground" by Skinner:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/01/010127_7days.html







sig:
"The Truth knows no master" - AmyStrange said to me in a dream

For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
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Serial Killer Cafe...
and searchable missing person news archives:

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Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

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"The Truth knows no master" - AmyStrange.com CEO "A Touch of Madness"

[Lefty48197]

19. I agree. That was an amazing performance by John Kerry

and he was only in his early 20's at the time. Wow.

[JohnKleeb]

22. mid 20's actually but I agree very powerful

[DisgustiPatriotiated]

20. It's on CSpan right now as a repeat

[JohnKleeb]

21. this is beautiful and touching

[Sparkly]

24. WOW

Just finished watching it. Very powerful, very moving, very impressive.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sparkly]

26. Not this war

He voted to authorize the use of force, believing not only the "intel" but also the chimp's promises to explore all options, and as a last resort create a genuine international coalition before using force. That's different from voting for what Bush actually did. Kerry's responsible for his vote, yes -- most of Congress bears the same responsibility. But Bush is responsible for what he did with the backing Congress gave him.

One might have thought that BUSH would be held responsible for his own actions. He didn't require the IWR anyway. Instead, the resolution is being wielded as a weapon by Democrats against Democrats. Perhaps that's the best reason for having such a resolution: the president didn't need it, it didn't apparently didn't hold him to anything, but it allowed him to share the blame.

At this point, it's not worth continued flaggelation imo; I'm more interested in what the candidates' proposals for resolving the mess are. Kerry at least has one; Bush does not. Kerry knows the human costs of war first-hand; Bush does not. Kerry is willing to give up political control (= control of the oil) to get the job done with the UN; Bush is not. That's the difference.

[zoeyfong]

40. This war was a loser from day1, with or without the UN. If Kerry didn't

have the judgement to see that, he doesn't belong in the oval office.

[LandOLincoln]

43. So you're going to vote for Bush, I take it? n/t

[Auntie Bush]

54. Bush wanted the resolution NOW because

it not only "allowed him to share the blame"...but the Dem's were damned if the do and damned if they don't. A no-win situation!
They were either for the war and therefor responsible or they would be bad mouthed forever for being soft on terrorism and national security. They couldn't win! That's the soul reason Bush demanded the vote just before the election. The man is EVIL! (no sarcasm!



Now I KNOW I'm on Asscrofts list.

[bigtree]

27. His testimony underscores his integrity and concern

His testimony then gives credence to his stated view now that his IWR vote was to send Bush back to the U.N. and re-introduce inspectors in the hope of forestalling or averting war. He doesn't assert that his vote for the IWR was a vote for Bush to proceed with unilateral, preemptive invasion, and I believe him.

____________________________________________________________

Boston Globe’s Thomas Oliphant:

"Kerry’s Iraq Position Shows “He Was Speaking with the Clarity Expected of Presidents - The Boston Globe columnist Thomas Oliphant summed up his view of John Kerry’s consistent position toward Iraq by saying Kerry was more than prescient; he was speaking with the clarity expected of presidents.” Oliphant wrote: “I continue to be struck by something else in Kerry's rhetoric that is worth quoting: ''The Bush administration has a plan for waging war but no plan for winning the peace. It has invested mightily in the tools of destruction but meagerly in the tools of peaceful construction. It offers the people in the greater Middle East retribution but little hope for liberty and prosperity. 'What America needs today is a smarter, more comprehensive and far-sighted strategy for modernizing the greater Middle East. It should draw on all of our nation's strengths: military might, the world's largest economy, the immense moral prestige of freedom and democracy - and our powerful alliances.'' “Increasingly common words today, but Kerry spoke them more than six months ago, two months before the war began. Like others, I gave him guff then for seeming to fudge his support for the use of force; but also like others I failed to see the power of his thinking about the link between conflict and aftermath. On this, Kerry was more than prescient; he was speaking with the clarity expected of presidents.”
__________________________________________________________________

American Prospect:

"Kerry’s Position Was not an Endorsement of Bush’s “Rush to War” – “Democrats in Congress running for president, such as John Kerry, are now getting slammed as inconsistent for criticizing the war after voting to authorize force against Iraq. But Congress voted on the Iraq resolution as Bush was requesting that the United Nations Security Council issue an ultimatum to Saddam Hussein. The timing made it appear that anyone voting against the resolution was undermining the president's chance of obtaining a last-minute diplomatic solution. A vote for the resolution did not imply an endorsement of Bush's rush to war, though Kerry's vote is being represented that way.”
___________________________________________________________________

Read about John Kerry's Position on the War in Iraq:

"The Trial of John Kerry"
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_1210b.html

Pride, truth and war according to Kerry
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_0713b.html

Kerry isn't waffling on war; the others are being simplistic
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_0902d.html


spiltspooge, welcome to DU! :hi:

[flaminbats]

28. Even the Republican politicians seemed three-dimensional in 1971..

no terrorist this or traitor that! Kerry's remarks were respected and even supported at that time...

What response would a returning soldier from Iraq against the war get from the Senate today?

[bigtree]

29. This is an excellent point that doesn't deserve to be buried here

The parallels are startling. The president's disregard of the veterans and the wounded, the talk of a final offensive, the abuses by our young soldiers of Iraqi civilians brought on by the structure and direction of our invasion and occupation.

We need the Winter soldiers today. I doubt though that this republican Congress would give them a hearing.

[flaminbats]

32. and how the journalism has gone downhill..

not only would they not rush to the phones, but one must doubt if they would even attend today!

How easy it is to lose track of such drastic changes through many years.

[blm]

31. Good observation. Republicans now are crazed and power-hungry

in ways Repubs back then would never even think to display...especially publicly.

[mitchum]

30. That was something, wasn't it?

John Kerry will make a great POTUS!

[SarahB]

34. I watched this tonight too

It's a bit hard rallying behind the guy because I do have some differences, but he's our guy and I want to get as informed as possible to get behind the man who's our likely nominee. Tonight, as I watched this, I was very impressed. :thumbsup:

[AmyStrange]

35. Kerry WAS good...

I'm sure he now understands how the congressman back then felt who helped perpetuate Vietnam.

I still admire him for not apologizing for calling the Bush re-elect squad liars and crooks.

GO KERRY

and NEVER aplogize for calling the Bush cabal liars and crooks



10) And best of all, check these out:

the best "unofficial" DU slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/

and the "First Seven Days Underground" by Skinner:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/01/010127_7days.html







sig:
"The Truth knows no master" - AmyStrange said to me in a dream

For the best "unofficial" DU Slang Dictionary in the world:
http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/




Serial Killer Cafe...
and searchable missing person news archives:

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Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe/

"The Truth knows no master" - AmyStrange.com CEO "A Touch of Madness"

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. I find it interesting that at one point

Kerry thought his anti-war protests had doomed his youthful ambitions of being President someday. For all the negativity and justifiable pessimism out there, I think it is a powerful statement that our society has made some progress that a Vietnam War protestor can become President.

[zoeyfong]

41. Yeah, too bad it will be 30 more years before an Iraq war protester can

become president. More things change, the more they stay the same.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. I think your ability to predict the future is nonexistent.

[zoeyfong]

39. 30 years is a long time. People change. Besides, the vietnam

war was stupid; why did he even volunteer? If he wanted to help our troops, he should have helped bring them home.

[DaveSZ]

42. .

The part when he talks about his fellow soldiers committing war crimes doesn't ring too well with many vets.

I’m not a vet myself, and I’m only stating the truth.

[Catherine Vincent]

49. Well that's too bad.

If the vets don't like hearing what their fellow soldiers did while in combat, then that's just tough luck. It reminds me of a movie with Michael J. Fox, I believe the name of it was "Casualty of War". He and some other guys were in Viet Nam and they were getting along ok until one of them went bonkers. He snatched a young girl from her village in the middle of the night and the others just sat back and did nothing. He raped the young girl and ordered the others under his command to do the same. And they did except the character that Michael J. Fox played. He didn't want to have anything to do with that, in fact he tried to stop them but to no avail. He was outnumbered. They eventually thru the girl over a cliff and she died and they were told to not disclose what happened. Of course, Michael J. Fox reported it and the military didn't want to have to deal with that. They were going to let them get away with it. But Michael J. Fox kept hammering the upper ranks and eventually a reporter got wind of it and those soldiers were all arrested.

Those vets whining about Kerry informing everyone of what went on in Viet Nam is what this story reminds me of.

[Killarney]

44. I watched it on CSPAN and got goosebumps

He is so intelligent, so thoughtful, so eloquent. Even at such a young age back then.

He will be a fantastic president. I will be proud. :)

[K8-EEE]

46. I Agree!! Finding Lots To Like About Kerry

It amazes me that people will zoom in on every mistake a person has ever made and define them by that. When I heard that 1971 testimony, I heard somebody with a heart, a brain, a mind, a conscience....all of which are completely lacking in Emperor Bush. Yeah - when President Kerry is sworn it, it will be a proud day.

[RichM]

48. It's amazing that someone could go from protestor to warmonger as JK

has done. Truly a remarkable transformation - speaking the clear unambiguous truth 33 years ago; today, supporting US imperialism with politico doubletalk. It leaves me speechless as well.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. It is amazing that someone could actually call JK a 'warmonger'

with a clear conscience.


It doesn't leave me speechless, however, I've seen enough self-righteous bullshit already that another shovelful won't shock me.

[bigtree]

51. It's amazing that you would post here to pick a fight about Kerry

Good for you. Good luck with that.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. He just thinks a supporting a different candidate

for President is a more effective way to advocate for peace.


Which candidate, I don't know, however.

[RichM]

53. Why is it 'amazing?' It's very surprising that someone who argued the

case against the Vietnam War so passionately in 1971, should now be on the side of the warmongers. I'm honestly struck by the irony, & believe I have the right to say so.

[bigtree]

55. You have a perfect right to say so

Good luck with that.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. Your characterization is total bullshit.

Yes you have a right to say it. But saying something doesn't make it true.