Kerry vs bush

[H2O Man]

This evening, I responded to a great post by bigtree regarding Kerry's testimony about the Vietnam War. It led to an interesting discussion, with valuable imput from a number of sources. One person made mention of Kerry and the Skull & Bones business. I added my thoughts on the subject, and my friend cally suggested that I make it into a new thread. (Due to my lack of computer skills, I needed to ask cally for "directions." This is my 1st attempt at this, and my sons are not here to assist me! Sad, but true.)
It occures to me that this is part of our culture's new mythology. In many myths, the "hero" figure lives an ordinary life. Often, the (pre-) hero tends to live a wild life, with excessive partying and seeking of pleasures. But then something happens, and forces beyond the hero's control carry them far away from the safety of their previous life. They are literally and figuratively plunged into the deep and dark unknown. These stories are told in symbolic terms, although in Kerry's case, the Vietnam War was clearly very real.
The average person does not return from such a journey in an "improved" state. The "lesser" person does not ever go on such a journey. But the hero returns improved, and lives a life of some type of public service there after.
I think that when we look at Kerry and bush in these terms, the differences between the two are stark indeed. I think that it is an appropriate myth for our time. I am curious what others think of this? Thank you.

[rwenos]

1. Warring Mythologies

I think you've got your finger on something. The American who went to war, "tested in war, tempered by a hard and bitter peace,"* versus the Blue Blood, the aristo who inherited the will to power.

I personally don't think it's much of a contest. Kerry's mythology is that of the young American who has "gone to the Mountain,"** and then returned as the lawgiver.

Compared to this, a heroic mythology, we have Bush, the rich drunk who got religion when his wife threatened to cut his cojones off.

* John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Inaugural Address, 1/20/1961

** Martin Luther King, Speech on Capitol Mall, "I Have a Dream," 1967.

Heady stuff, Mate.

[H2O Man]

2. Thank you.

I suspect one of the reasons that we witnessed such a wide variety of responses to The Passion is because it is the mythology of 2000 years ago. (I am not saying that Jesus is a "myth," simply that the story of his life & death has taken that form.) We need to re-create the great myths for our times, and people such as the two you quote are exactly what we should be using. The art of revealing truths and exposing lies through the use of myths is a powerful weapon.

[jfxgillis]

3. Beautiful idea. I saw it earlier.

And I don't quite agree that it was off-topic!!

You can see both the POTENTIAL for profound understanding of the human experice, and the beginning of Kerry's REALIZATION of profound understanding right in that testimony.

That was a scholar, a priest, and a leader of men.

The USA will be very, very lucky to have him.

[rasputin1952]

4. Congrats on your first thread!

:hi:

You started off on an intellectual note, which is fine by me, btw.

When I look to 'heroes', I always gauge my acceptance of a hero on what he/she does after the event that brought them notoriety. Some, like Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain of Little Round Top fame, continue to go on through conflict without too much fanfare; then rise to the top of the crowd as they show that they can deal with a wide scope of ideas and problems.

Some 'heroes' are only heroes once, a flash in the pan so to speak. They either die during the event, or just go back to doing whatever they do normally. I knew a guy that jumped in front of a bus in 1965 in NYC, to get a toddler out of harms way, that is a hero in my book. Not thought, just do what has to be done, risking all for just a chance at helping someone; then go home like nothing happened. Cincinatus comes to mind in this respect, but his event was much larger in scope.

There is nothing heroic about bush, absolutely nothing. He is a coward and would not contemplate risking anything HE has, but has no compunction at risking what others have. bush has always been a coward, he's never had to face anything of great consequence in his life, where there was not someone there to either prop him up or bail him out. He is an empty shell of a man, with a soul that looks like a raisin.

Kerry had moments of heroism, and he knows what it feels like to be on the receiving end of hostility. Is Kerry the same type of hero as Cincinatus? I don't think so, but if an event arise to be dealt with, I am confident that Kerry can deal w/it.

My favorite heroes are the real ones; those that go out everyday and move forward in the real world. Those that find the time to help others, quietly and deliberately. Those that use some of their hard earned money not just in rearing a family, but can also squeeze out a few extra dollars for those that need it. Real heroes dedicate themselves to the betterment of the human condition. Charles Dickens is a real hero. His writing helped to change an entire society, yet most people would consider him to be a great writer, not a societal motivator.

Eleanor Roosevelt was a hero; Martin Luther King Jr was a hero; Bob Kerrey is a hero; those that were beaten and died in the early years or labor organization were heroes and those that were beaten and died in this country to elevate Civil Rights are heroes.

bush? I don't think so. The next time something happens, he will find another hole to hide in rather than look a threat in the eye and take it on. Sad, very sad.

O8)

5. Myths are not real

If people want to put Kerry into the mold of a hero that's great. But there's nothing honest about it. The only thing Kerry did which I consider worth respecting is when he joined veterans against the war and threw his medals on the steps of the capital. Of course he rejected that organization and the whole social justice movement within months of those actions and is now trying to build on his "hero" status. That is, enhancing the very record he rejected when he threw his medals.

Speaking of myths which one applies to Bush?

[rwenos]

6. Easy . . . Return of the Prodigal Son

You think too little of myths. I can recommend Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth," although perhaps you've already read it.

The War of the Myths goes on under the radar. Which of these two candidates' stories is closer to what America wants to think about itself?

My point in Post #1 is EXACTLY that Kerry has the stronger mythology, and is thus the stronger candidate. Bush's people know this, and it's why they fear Kerry. They know Bush's myth is weak -- as was the Prodigal Son's.

The reference from MLK's speech, about having "been to the mountain," by the way, is to Moses after his encounter with the staff, the rock and the bush, on the mountaintop. The idea is a young man must be tested before he can piece together an adult self.

Bush's "I got religion because my wife wouldn't stop giving me shit because I was a drunk blow-off" pales in comparison to Kerry's "I was a young American who went to war, was bloodied, came home, then realized I had to begin an adult life."

Bush's myth is that of a grown child. Kerry's is that of a grown, adult man.

[sangh0]

11. Myths are real

They just aren't literally true. It's a subtle, but profoundly significant, difference.

[WilliamPitt]

7. From what I have read in 'Tour of Duty'

Kerry did not lead a wild partying life. He was a child of privilege, but not excessively so. He did a lot of traveling, and got into a few scrapes (totalled a car in Austria). When he was in the military, he boozed it up with his fellow Navy guys they way 1,000,000 other Navy guys have done.

But the sense that everyone around him had of him, even in youth, was that he wanted to lead a life of public service. It seems like he framed his life to prepare for this, and never went berzerk in any sense. Hell, he got bad pneumonia while in officer training school, and was bed-ridden for two weeks. He finished his exams from the hospital because he was adamant about graduating with his classmates. Homeboy's got sand. That's not the actions of a privileged punk.

I think your post is a good one, but I think it misses the mark with Kerry. His dad instilled in him a sense that public service was the highest calling. Kerry's emulation of Kennedy further developed this. I don't get the sense he ever had an 'awakening.' He's been preparing for this election for his entire life.

[Sparkly]

8. I think the mythological term is "epiphany"

The hero has it in him all along; and there comes a point in his journey when it's revealed.

I like this perspective and this thread, H20 Man -- thank you! :)

[rwenos]

9. Either Epiphany or Baptism

You're on the right track with Epiphany, maybe (depending on how Evangelical you are, I guess) Baptism, in the sense it involves a conscious acceptance of one's mortality.

I'm fonder of Epiphany (the revelation of Self to oneself), and it's consistent with my point about Kerry's (stronger) mythology. He was TESTED, then integrated his adult personality. Bush was TAUNTED, then acquiesced to his (stronger) wife's program.

Kerry's act was that of a man, growing into an adult. Bush's was that of a spoiled child, promising never again to be bad.

[WilliamPitt]

10. Kick