A FOX poll i LIKE, yes thats right, LIKE! Nader down to 3% YAY!

[Mobius]

:toast:
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm
FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. March 23-24, 2004. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.
.
"If the election for president of the United States were held today, for whom would you vote if the candidates were Republican George W. Bush, Democrat John Kerry, and independent candidate Ralph Nader?" Names rotated; respondents pushed for decision. Nader identified as Green Party candidate in 2/04 poll.
3/23-24/04
Bush Kerry Nader Other NotSure
% % % % %
43 42 3 10 2

Finally Nader dropping in polls, a FOX poll even.

[vi5]

1. Here's what I think happened...

Nader's earliest high numbers reflected a lot of people still disgruntled at the primary process and their candidates losing out to Kerry. As a reaction to that I think they probably answered about voting for Nader. Then when a lot of them saw how this was playing out in the polls it got them worried and they realized what was at stake.

I think this effect will increase as we get closer and provide Kerry with an even bigger bounce and I'm hopeful that Ralph is going to come to his senses and endorse Kerry as we get closer as well and that will be the final straw.

[Mobius]

2. Thats what I was thinking too!

:grouphug:
Im not sure if this poll was taken AFTER the bush WMD jokes. Wow, would I like the bush video, Im afraid to go to the Bush site, without a full-body comdom on. :eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

3. Neither Kerry nor Bush gained any points on this poll

The column for "Other" went up 1 point to 10%, while 2% are solid for not voting at all.

Considering all the fulminations from the 2-major parties, looks like the electorate is pretty much set already.

More damning is that in a 2-candidate race, 12% of the voters reject the candidates of the 2-major parties despite the calls for ABB from one side, and the charges of Massachusetts liberal from the other.

[jfxgillis]

4. So 12% of the population are juvenile whiners and pouters ...

... Why am I not surprised?

[IndianaGreen]

5. 12% of the population recognize our political system is bullshit!

I used to be among those that used to complaint about people than did not vote. I was wrong! Not voting is a vote against a corrupt political system that represents only the moneyed interests at the expense of the working class.

If the game is fixed, why play it?

I will never again criticize people that refuse to vote. People like comedian George Carlin, who voted last for George McGovern, and hasn't since because he thinks our political system is bullshit.

[jfxgillis]

6. So, do you plan to assist Bush's re-relection by not voting?

That's within your right, of course.

But don't kid yourself that refusing to support Bush's opposition is anything BUT a boost to Bush.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Continue insulting those that don't march in lockstep to your tune

and you will get nowhere. I hope you make it a major campaign theme so you see how successful it becomes in the Fall. Insults will, to quote you, "assist Bush's reelection." No wonder 12% of the eligible voters are so totally alienated by the political system and the politicians that they don't even bother to vote anymore.

I suggest you re-read what I wrote instead of using a tired old straw man argument.

The point of the poll, that seems to be ignored by some around here is that there is a solid 2% that will not vote, and a fairly firm 10% that will not vote for Bush, Kerry, or even Nader. That's 12% that reject our undemocratic winner-take-all electoral process altogether!

[jfxgillis]

9. It's not an insult

It's an inexorable and inevitable consequence of your position (and George Carlin's position, for that matter).

[IndianaGreen]

10. I agree with George Carlin, but I don't do as he does

You are still using the straw man rather than to address the issues raised by the polling data.

[jfxgillis]

12. Well, pardon moi

For presuming you acted in accord with the beliefs you stated you agreed with.

The 12% of intensely alienated voters? FUCK THEM. Frankly, I'll bet at this point more of them are right-populists disgusted that Bush hasn't made made abortion a capital crime than they are left-populists disgusted at corporate control.

Which would be good for Kerry.

Which would help defeat Bush.

Which I think is a good thing.

Which you don't.

[Nicholas_J]

8. Another point to note

Is that Florida polls do not have nader doing anywhere near as well in this state as he did in 2000. In many of the staes where Nadder did well in 2000, he is only polling half as well as he did in the last race.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Nader is not a factor

The support for Nader that one sees in the polls is more a reflection of how a percentage of the electorate rejects the 2-major parties.

The 2-way race polling data is more interesting because it shows that 12% of the eligible voters (in this poll at least) will not go for Bush or for Kerry, choosing instead to vote for an unnamed third party/independent candidate or sit at home and not vote at all.

Let's not forget that this poll is based on a sample of "900 registered voters nationwide" and that the pollsters pushed the "respondents... for decision." Taking all of that into consideration, together with the 2% that won't vote at all, and the 10% that would vote for someone outside the 2-major parties, this is a significant indictment of the political system!

[WitchWay]

13. startling...

This is pretty startling. I'm pretty darn disgusted at things right now -- but didn't expect this would be the general attitude. Push polls usually don't get those kind of responses. But, I'm not really the least bit surprised.

Everyone is totally pissed off right now, and for good reason! The representation that all Americans (repubs and dems) are offered Sucks! One bonesman, or the other bonesman. They are both rich assholes, both allies, both intent on screwing everyone over, it seems.

Its amazing though, that so many people are so disgusted. I hope that people get angry enough to demand political reform. I really hope so.

I also do know people who just won't vote because they think the system is complete BullShit. They are not apolitical, simply they don't want to vote in a rigged system that offers no real choices.

[VOX]

14. And may he continue sinking like the millstone that he is...

To the bottom is necessary. If Nader continues in his folly, he will completely undo his entire legacy of positive accomplishments.

I'd like to think highly of him -- I once did. But now, Ralph is irrelevant, in the way, ignorant, and obstinate to the point of being wacko.

[WitchWay]

15. Democrats have done a nice Job of undoing Nader's legacy

Ralph Nader couldn't continue his legacy of positive accomplishments, because once the dems started taking corporate contributions (the development of the DLC) -- Nader and his organizations got totally shut out of Capitol Hill. This is a big reason why he is running. Because he realized that everything he had worked for was being unraveled.

So, Nader isn't "undoing" his legacy -- the corrupt corporate politicians (including Dems) have been busy undoing his legacy. He's just fighting back to change the system.

I don't think it's ignorant to fight oppression and corporatism. If the democratic party wasn't so corrupt, there would be no need for Nader to have to run.

Look into the history of 3rd parties and independent candidates. Even thought they often don't get many votes, they play a critical role in reinvigorating and influencing our political system. They can spur new directions and create new conversations.

A vast number of Florida dems voted for Bush in 2000 (many, many more dems voted Bush than there were Nader votes)...this is why Gore came close in 2000 (But, remember - he won it, he just didn't fight for it for some reason).