Does Kerry really need our votes?

[flaminbats]

As I read Kerry's agenda and listen to him speak..he never says negative things about those who voted for Kucinich or Nader. He doesn't call them fools, doesn't say they should LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT, and even appears to honor their active participation in the political process.

What about Kerry's primary supporters? Do they honor such participation in the political process? Do they welcome us all into the Democratic Party? Do they consider those who voted for Dean or Kucinich to be nothing more but destructive fools? Do Kerry supporters want our votes as much as he does, or do they view us as nothing more than undesirable elements to be purged for victory?

I hope that does not represent the views of most Kerry supporters, and I know it doesn't represent the views of most DUers. But I am committed to a Kerry victory in November. I am a Democrat not just because of our party's principles, but because of its tolerance and diversity. I am a Democrat because this is the party that welcomes voters from all walks of life. This doesn't mean we must make John Breaux our leader, but it does mean accepting him and Howard Dean both as welcome participants in our party. The day that this changes, and that any of us are not welcome is the day I stop being a Democrat.

You may even call my perspective childish...if you wish!

[aquart]

1. What are you talking about?

Yeah. He needs our votes. Next.

[flaminbats]

2. Now...how do we get them?

:shrug:

[Faygo Kid]

5. I agree. What is this all about?

It does sound childish, frankly, with all due respect. Take a look at what the GOP is doing to Clarke. In a second Bush term, all of us dissenters will be under that kind of attack. You worry about disrespect? Think about that. We have to move on, now. OK, all Dems who voted for anyone else in the primaries are of course entitled to respect. There. Now, as this poster says, Next.

[flaminbats]

9. We do our best when united...

we're at our worse when the hippies and the union workers are beating each other up, as in 1968. But that certainly helped Nixon.

[fearnobush]

3. ABB and it's Kerry.

Ralf will bow out, he's looking real old these days. Kerry attacking him would only strengthen Nader's narcissistic need for more attention.

[zulchzulu]

4. Nah. Let's just give up and go home. Why bother.

Who cares what happens to America, right? As long as the tube has some shit we can watch while we stuff ourselves with shit we see on the tube, we're happy.

[flaminbats]

6. You remind me of a certain Senator from Georgia...

x(

[zulchzulu]

11. Whoops, I forgot to put /sarcasm in message

So I remind you of Zell?

[lastknowngood]

7. I don't think he cares about us Dean voters. He wants our money

but has abandoned every idea he stole from Dean during the primary. He has run so far to the "center" he's trying to out bush bush. He makes no clear unambiguous points, it's as though he has decided to win without taking a real position on most issues. The ones he appears clear on are all bush talking points. I'm disgusted, I'll pull the leaver for him but that's just to get rid of the shrub. I'm hoping Dean's new org will fire up the base and put a backbone in some of the Dem's. Remember half of the so called "leadership" of the Dem's just voted for the "defense of the jelly in the belly act" to make a woman liable for anything that happens to the protoplasm until it pops out.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Yeah..that;s why Dean was promoting him yesterday

and did you notice John Kerry's vote was AGAINST that issue? Once again...if people from these states that promote this backwards shit would work on sneding something other than knuckledraggers like Breaux to the senate...maybe there would be a bit more Dem unity

[dae]

8. I'm from the South, supported Clark, and voting for Kerry whether

the SOB likes it or not.

[Thrill]

10. Do people start threads

like this just to get a rise out of people?

[flaminbats]

12. if you wish...

or we could have a discussion about why the votes of moderate Democrats matter just as much as those of conservative or liberal Democrats. Another possible topic..have Democrats lived up to our name in this election?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

13. The more he beats Bush by.

The better.

[rasputin1952]

14. Actually, I don't think your query is 'childish'...

I can take it a step further by asking why so many are holding on to a dissolving dream in other candidates, when the main thrust must be made against bush, by all of us I might add.

My initial candidate did not make the cut; it's over for that part of the process and the quicker I realized that, the better off we all were, because, although I don't agree w/everything that Kerry says, I'll back him as I would any other good candidate, and he IS a good candidate. The two options at this point are Kerry or bush, for Pete's sake, there isn't even a contest here for my vote...it is Kerry!

I've read, listened to and seen all of the arguments against Kerry; guess what, none of them holds the weight that the arguments against bush hold; there is NO comparison!

Now is the time to heal all wounds. Politics is a blood sport, we get hurt, that is part of the process. But no one will hurt us more than bush.

Yes....Kerry needs ALL of our votes. And not just Kerry; if you ever want to get this country back, we've ALL got to pull together for the common cause. The alternative is unthinkable.

O8)

[flaminbats]

17. I couldn't agree with you more...lol

The American people in this process are the titans, no matter how many times they are thrown out they always come back for two basic reasons. We all have a personal stake in this process, and because the people are the masters in this country...and the politicians are the servants.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. Needing a vote in order that we may defeat Bush does not mean

paying ransom. Some people treat their vote like it requires ransom for an agenda not really accepted in the mainstream or even the left of center. I appreciate Nader's contributions. Nobody has done more damage to Nader's contributions, i.e. consumer safety, environmental laws and labor issues than Nader himself when he claimed Bush equaled Gore...remember the same Gore now being praised as though he were a lefty when he was actually to the RIGHT of Kerry on most legislative issues.

Kucinich is also someone I appreciate but he is no more a flawless god than is Kerry. People can claim he is less of a politician but disclaiming his votes against women's rights and DOMA are PURELY political moves in order to attract the people he wishes to attract.

So, the only thing I object to is the double standard applied.

[JohnKleeb]

18. Actually Kucinich didnt vote against DOMA

DOMA was passed before he became a congressman. I like Kerry and Kucinich equal honestly, as someone who supports both of em, I'd like Kucinich's platform preferably but Kerry has a good one, and in fact after Kucinich, one of the more liberal ones, maybe he will appoint a second Warren court :).

[DaveSZ]

19. Forget about everything else for a moment

And ask yourself if you want creationism in schools, a Scalia Supreme Court, and drilling in our National Parks and preserves.

:)

Kerry is actually pretty darn to the left of many in our party.

Let's give him a Congress he can work with, and we'll see what happens.

[JohnKleeb]

20. Kerry is one of our most liberal senators

Thats what I am saying. People think hes not liberal at all but he really is quite liberal.

[Catholic Sensation]

21. well a lot of the people who think he's a bush-lite don't post here

anymore, and they tend to create statistics straight from their asses, like one moron who claimed Kerry, in 2003, voted with Bush 84% of the time, though the statistics say something like 30% of the time he voted (and Kleeb is the one who gave me this stat, I'll give props when they're due), or when considering all the votes taken in 2003, his votes were the same as bush's position 10.8% of the time total.

[JohnKleeb]

22. of course

Yep 30% of the time. I admit he only was voting 38% of the time but the myth is that he votes for the Bush agenda. :eyes: Sounds like what I like to call a classic case of bs. Of course Kerry is a bushlite :eyes:, even when I fully supported Kucinich, I found Kerry to be great, hell hes close to Ted Kennedy, a new england lib dem in my life time is appealing.

[flaminbats]

23. It depends which votes you consider...

the Patriot Act and IWR were important votes, but one could argue that Kerry supported funding of the war in Iraq by voting against shrub's tax cuts. When looking at Zell's voting record he also supported the Patriot Act and the IWR, but supported tax cuts which have undermined the effectiveness of our military.

IMHO this demonstrates Kerry is more of a moderate than a liberal, but the candidate most worth voting for.

[Catholic Sensation]

24. two votes condemn a man to moderation?

Here's an interesting statistic about the Patriot ACT: 98 SENATORS VOTED FOR IT (including Paul Wellstone).

IYHO Paul Wellstone is more of a moderate than a liberal, which is just plain ridiculous.

[flaminbats]

26. I thought Feingold and Wellstone opposed it!

Well let's compromise, Kerry's a proud moderate fighting for lady liberty..

[Catholic Sensation]

27. wellstone voted for it

feingold voted against, and someone abstained from voting.

And Kerry isn't a moderate, that's the whole point of my post. Sounds like someone's been drinking some really bad kool-aid.

[flaminbats]

29. lol...who or what?

not a criminal question :smoke:

[JohnKleeb]

25. personally I think youre wrong, he is a liberal and his record demostrates

this. On IWR in a NYT article, Senator Kennedy, a staunch opponent of the IWR said their views were the same. Patriot Act is important yes but you must understand that they were basically blackmailed in to voting for it, "its your vote if another attack happens", I give props to those who voted against it, but I wont go after those who voted for it.

[Dr Fate]

28. I only have problems with the constant attacks...

I like what you wrote- but the constant attacks on Democrats in this crucial year is what is causing all the problems...

[AmyStrange]

30. GET BUSH OUT...

((((HUGz))))

I am so sick and tired of the "Dean is a pariah" of the democratic party. Thank you for your help in dispelling this untruth.

Dean may not have been as great as all of his supporters think he was, but anyone who doesn't think he was (and still is) larger than life.

He may not have given the dem party a spine (as some of us profess insistently that he did), but no one can ever prove to everyone's satisfaction that he didn't.

As time goes on and Dean helps to turn the party left with fiscal responsibility as the rock solid foundation from which to launch his socially liberal programs including practical health care that will get a firm enough footing in the ever elusive universal health care war that now biterly divides the corporate system from the poor in this country.

The 60% insured pays for the 100% total health care cost of everyone - including those who use the ER - which cost two, three, four, five (and more times) as much as regular health care cost to the insured.

As more people lose their health care, the 60% insured grows smaller, but the 100% grows bigger and THUS is why the insured pay more.

d