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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:10 AM
Original message
If Hillary is running the "worst campaign ever", then how come
she is almost beating Obama and is essentially tied with her? That does not say much about Obama does it?
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Patritots played their worst game in years and nearly won the Super Bowl
Of course, they lost to one the biggest underdogs in gambling history.

But what does that say about the Giants?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Fuckin' GIANTS! GO BLUE! Igotta tell ya, one of the best days of
MY LIFE, AND MY BIRTHDAY. Ugh. Settle down, girl :hide: Go, Giants? :D
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
63. Happy BD.
:)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
74. Holy Fuck We Agree On Something!
:rofl:

:toast:

And what an AWESOME birthday present that must've been. Good for you!
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
73. No They Didn't. We Just Completely Overpowered Them And Shut Them Down.
It was their worst game not because of how they played, but because of how WE dominated them. It's that simple.

We were huge underdogs but brought our best game. We took on a team that was ranked far better than we were, and we totally humiliated them and shut them down. I'd say that makes the Giants one HELL of a football team.

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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. almost beating = 11 straight losses? being behind over 150 pledged delegates?
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
43. Hill won Massachusetts where they saw the hope-a-dope show before
And Obama lost California even though Zogby polls had him up 20 points up and surging.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Considering her network, name recognition and financial advantage...
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 01:13 AM by Starbucks Anarchist
She should have beat him a long time ago.

It's not that she's down by so many delegates -- it's that she's fallen so far from where she (and many people) thought she'd end up.
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. she is neither almost beating or essentially tied, but with proportional delegate allocation it may
appear that way to the casual observer. I suggest you do the math.

Needing 58% of all reaming delegates is insurmountable and will be even worse after 3/4.



More misleading claims from a Clinton supporter. Nice. Consistency counts
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. What's with all of the "New" Hillary supporters at the 7th hour?
Obama was behind in Texas and Ohio by like 30 points just 2.5 weeks ago. :wtf: are you talking about?
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
46. The "New" Hillary supporters have been told that McCain can't beat Obama...
Many are not even wasting time getting their post numbers up at the Lounge, or with multiple kicks to other threads. It's almost funny.

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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. then
they're not reading all the articles showing obama can't beat mccain
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
71. "New" Hillary supporters.
DU has certainly been inundated with them the last couple of weeks.

I wonder if they believe that spamming DU with absurd one line posts is somehow going to help Hillary in Ohio or Texas.
:rofl:

My guess is sock puppets, or pleas for Hillary Help posted to other INet boards.


As a Progressive Democrat, I no longer have a horse in this race, but I lean toward Obama as the lesser of two conservative Democratic evils. I await March the 5th for a return of some sanity to DU.


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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. Former President Bill Clinton n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Oh Josie my dear, you are trying so very hard to believe but,
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 01:17 AM by donheld
You must remember Hillary started out so very far ahead in so many ways. Now she's just about out all together. Her campaign makes one blunder after another, and it will take a miracle for her to win. If you don't see a bad campaign the you have blinders on.
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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. Oh I see just fine dearie. My point is that
Obama is barely beating a horrible campaign. Makes ya think doesn't it? Getting my drift their dearie...seeing the obvious question that this raises? Or do you still need my help?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
53. Yes just barely, huh?
Maryland 59.7% to 36.7%
Virginia 63.6% to 35.4%
Georgia 66.4% to 31.1%
Idaho 79.5% to 17.2%
Colorado 66.6% to 32.4%
Louisiana 57.4% to 35.6%
N Dakota 61.1% to 36.5%
Maine 59.5% to 39.9%
Alaska 74.4% to 25.4%
Minnesota 66.5% to 32.1%



Do you want me to post more? Do you realize it's only gotten worse for Mrs Clinton.
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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. Mostly caucus states.
The general election won't be a caucus now will it dearie? Obama most likely will not have a majority of the pledged delegates, WOW, some juggernaut! LOL!

He is barely beating a horrible campaign...what does that same about his chances in the general?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #57
85. Oh that's right Caucuses don't count in Hillaryland
I forgot :eyes:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. And anyways.....
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 01:18 AM by FrenchieCat
Your thread is the shits!



Like Hillary said, "Shame on You"!


After coming in 3rd in Iowa, maybe she should have been history....but no, the press followed her around more then they did John Edwards who had come in 2nd.


September 26, 2007
Is Hillary Inevitable?

Pundits have pretty well conceded the Democratic nomination to Hillary Clinton. In a basic sense, this is a reversal of recent history. Over the last few decades, it is the Republicans who have loyally nominated the heir apparent, the guy whose "turn" it was, even when--as when the GOP nominated Bob Dole in 1996--it was clear that he had little or no chance to win. The Democrats, on the other hand, have been willing to nominate candidates who started out as "second tier," if they like the way they perform in the early going. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are good examples. Now that we all know what a skillful politician Clinton is, it is hard to remember that when the Democrats nominated him in 1992, it was almost exactly the same as if the Republicans were to nominate Mike Huckabee next year.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/09/018580.php



The Democratic New York senator has worked hard to get to this point, a position that has its advantages. A presumptive winner in the primaries commands campaign dollars and media attention (though the latter can be a mixed blessing). This necessarily weakens competitors, who are then forced to spend less time promoting themselves and more time trying to knock out the frontrunner (another mixed blessing).

Historically, the early leader usually bags the nomination, though there may be some stumbles along the way. That's why a string of candidates – both Bushes, Al Gore, Bob Dole, and Walter Mondale, to name a few – worked to create the perception of presumed nominee.

When Senator Clinton took the usually slow summer fundraising season and turned it into a record-setting clam rake, when she appeared on five Sunday talk shows in one morning last month, when even President Bush spoke of her as the one to beat – then she must have known she was wearing that invisible crown of inevitability.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1011/p08s01-comv.html



updated 9:19 p.m. EDT, Tue October 2, 2007
Clinton outpaces Obama in fundraising for third quarter

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton raised $27 million in the third quarter for her 2008 Democratic bid for the White House, a Clinton aide said Tuesday.

All but $5 million of Clinton's funds can be spent trying to win the Democratic presidential nomination in the primaries, the aide said.

More than 100,000 new donors contributed to the New York Democrat, the aide said.

Clinton outpaced Sen. Barack Obama over the last three months, a reversal of positions from the second quarter.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/02/campaign.cash/index.html



Hillary says she’ll be Democratic nominee by Feb 5th
December 13, 2007
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is anticipating that she will not have to wait long to become the Democratic presidential nominee, privately telling campaign donors in California that the race "is all going to be over by Feb. 5."

Though the focus of the 2008 presidential campaign is on Iowa and New Hampshire, the states with the earliest contests, Clinton suggested that California's influence might be larger than was commonly believed.

"You've got to realize that people in California will start voting absentee about the time Iowa and New Hampshire happen," the senator from New York said at a closed-door fundraising reception Tuesday evening. "In fact, more people will have voted absentee by the middle of January than will have voted in New Hampshire, Iowa and a lot of other places combined."

On Friday, California absentee ballots began going out to members of the military and others living abroad.

California's remaining absentee ballots will be sent out beginning Jan. 7, one day before the New Hampshire primary and four days after the Iowa precinct caucuses.

California holds its primary Feb. 5, along with 21 other states and American Samoa.

"California, Texas, New York, New Jersey — you've got way more than half the country," Clinton said at the fundraising event at a Sacramento restaurant. "And we're going to be ready, thanks to all of you. We're running a vigorous campaign here in California."

Voters in 22 states will vote after Feb. 5, as will those in the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and Guam.

The fundraising reception was closed to the news media, but an audio recording of Clinton's speech was made available to the Los Angeles Times.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-clinton13dec13,1,2613727.story








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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. Look at it this way...

Hillary and Obama are competing in a 100-yard dash... but Hillary got to start at the 50 yard-line.


Secondly.... THIS is what you consider "essentially a tie"


- Obama has a 105 delegate lead in overall delegates, a 155 delegate lead in pledged delegates
- Obama has a 900,000 vote lead in the popular vote
- Obama has won 25 out of 36 contests, including 11 straight
- There hasn't been a single day in this campaign in which Hillary Clinton collected more delegates than Barack Obama
- Obama has not, at any time in this campaign, been behind Hillary in pledged delegates
- Obama has outraised Hillary Clinton, by significant margins, in each of the past two months
- Since Feb 5th, Obama has gained nearly 40 superdelegates... Clinton has lost 5.

There is NO measure in which this race can be considered "essentially a tie". Your candidate hasn't won a race in 3 1/2 weeks.


To put in one more sports metaphor... Hillary Clinton jumped out to a two touchdown lead early in the first quarter... but as we enter the fourth quarter, Obama is now up by two touchdowns.

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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Obama Was Virtually Unknown Hillary Had The Clear
advantage but she blew it.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kerry ran the worst campaign ever
not Hillary

and please, if her name wasn't Clinton, she wouldn't have a snowball's chance to even compete for the nomination, let alone be a senator
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Unfortunately, one of the truest things I've read on DU....
Too bad for the Clintonistas that it's the truth.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
83. Kerry had a nearly flawless win of the primaries
his campaign was better than Dean's, Edwards', Clark's etc. His general election campaign was good enough that he came close to winning after a media condoned character assassination. His run was actually better than Clinton 1992 - the different a better media in 1992 and a President at 33%. On a level playing field, Kerry would have won easily. He had the experience, wisdom and character to be an awesome President.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Most people who vote for her are doing it on familiarity and brand name, not
because they pay attention at all to politics.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
44. Attention Wal-Mart Voters!!!
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 03:16 AM by Ichingcarpenter
On aisle 2, of your democratic choice
you have the Clinton vote that is now made in China that used to be


UNION MADE.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. Zing.
My sentiments exactly. Welcome to DU. :hi:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. Because of this...
http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artm...

HILL TROUNCING RIVALS IN N.H. & OHIO
By IAN BISHOP
January 31, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has blown past her primary rivals in the 2008 kickoff state of New Hampshire, and bests the field of White House hopefuls in the swing state of Ohio, new polls show.
Clinton's poll bounce comes on the heels of her announcement that she's running, and her much-publicized first campaign foray into Iowa this past weekend. She had enjoyed a high-tech campaign rollout, featuring a video announcement of her candidacy and three nights of Web chats with supporters."We had a great first week and we hope it is a sign of things to come," campaign spokesman Phil Singer told The Post yesterday.
Clinton has jumped out to a 15-point lead in New Hampshire over her leading rival, Barack Obama, 40 percent to 25 percent, the new Survey USA poll shows. Former Sen. John Edwards stands at 23 percent.


May 8th, 2007 at 13:15:24
Poll: Clinton pulls ahead of Obama

http://rawstory.com/comments/31343.html
Agence France-Presse
Hillary Clinton has taken a 15 percentage-point lead over fellow US Senator Barack Obama in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, according to poll results published Tuesday...
Clinton leaving Obama in the dust in latest state poll

Friday, August 17, 2007
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...
New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, bolstered by an aggressive campaign organization in California, has amassed a whopping 30-point lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama - and enjoys more support among likely voters in the state Democratic primary than all of her Democratic presidential rivals combined, a Field Poll released today shows


Poll: Hillary Ahead In South Carolina

By Eric Kleefeld - August 22, 2007, 10:35AM
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmem...
New polling from Rasmussen has Hillary Clinton beating Barack Obama in the South Carolina primary, with 38% for Hillary against 30% for Obama, with John Edwards at a distant third with 13%. Hillary and Obama are even among black voters, a demographic in which Obama needs a strong majority in order to win. Among whites, Hillary leads with Edwards in second, and Obama far behind.

October 3, 2007, 1:45 pm By Dalia Sussman
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton far outpaces her main Democratic rivals to handle a range of issues, and she is considered the strongest leader and the most electable – forces that have helped her widen her lead in the race for the Democratic nomination, according to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll.

Mrs. Clinton has anywhere from a 30-point lead to a 51-point lead over Senator Barack Obama
to handle health care, the economy, the war in Iraq and the campaign against terrorism, the poll found.



CLINTON HAS 33-POINT LEAD

By GEOFF EARLE
October 4, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has jumped to an astounding 33-point lead over Barack Obama, topping her main rival among every major slice of the electorate and widening a dominating advantage she has held all summer.Clinton got support from a full majority for the first time in any national survey about the Democratic presidential field. She is backed by 53 percent in the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll.Obama follows far behind, with 20 percent, and John Edwards has 13 percent.
"I think it's pretty well done, don't you? All over but the voting," said Rep. Tom Petri (D-Wis.), when asked about the poll

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10042007/news/...


Iowa Poll Shows Clinton Ahead By 29 Percent

http://wap.nbc5.com/detail.jsp?key=251931&...
10/08/2007 -- There's a new poll out in the all important state of Iowa that shows presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton ahead by 29 percent, with John Edwards and Sen. Barack Obama not far behind.


Hillary Clinton: Is the Democratic Nomination All Hers?
She doesn’t have the nomination prize wrapped up just yet, but the paper and ribbon are handy.

By Richard Sammon, Senior Associate Editor, The Kiplinger Letter
October 22, 2007
http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/...
Hillary Clinton’s lead over her Democratic rivals is starting to look formidable. The N.Y. senator is overshadowing the other presidential hopefuls, pulling way ahead in the polls, in fundraising and in organization.The media are starting to refer to her as the presumptive nominee, a characterization that must make the other candidates feel frustrated.
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Middle finga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. Enough of the spin. The question should be...
How did the inevitable one get upset by a young unknown upstart? Even if Barack win by only one delegate it's still the upset of the century.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
16. Well if you can't recognize that Obama isn't a "her?"
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 01:32 AM by alphafemale
You do have some perception problems.

Thinking that Hillary is a good candidate may be just a symptom.

You do still have time to edit that, btw.

Then I'll look like the idiot.

But I can deal with that.

You see.

I'm in a cult...
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well let's see shall we? Let's see if we could just maybe find any FLAW with your thinking... hmm..
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 01:33 AM by Political Heretic
You go from being the universally presumptive party nominee for well over a year and a half, with a huge campaign war-chest and manage to lose Iowa, fail to seal the deal on super-Tuesday, have absolutely no plan what so-ever for dealing with a live opponent, and proceed to lose eleven in a row - eleven.

The fact that she is losing ground in two states she was never, ever supposed to lose, ahd has dropped 20 point leads in both states over the last few weeks is not exactly the hallmark of a "great" campaign. :)

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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. She needed to pick some state, somewhere to make a stand after Feb. 5
Anywhere. Wisconsin. Virginia. Anywhere. She gave Obama the initiative, and in a contested system that can be almost impossible to recover. She can get it back Tuesday, honestly at this point if she wins either TX or OH even by a small margin. That at least changes the narrative. But judging from the past two months I'm not confident she'll do much good with it once she gets it.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Speaking neutrally, I'm not sure if that's enough.
Example: If Clinton wins Ohio by 1 or 2% and loses Texas by 5 or 6% (which is what I'm predicting) I'm not sure that's going to give here the kind of narrative change needed.

A discussion about how the media has covered the Clinton campaign would be a subject for an entirely separate thread, but fair or not we need to at least acknowledge that the media (and her own husband didn't help matters here) has pretty much decreed that she needs to win both to have any hope. That's backed up a little bit by the delegate math, where she does need big wins to overtake Obama.

I'm afraid if she loses Texas like I suggested in my example, the loss will be the story, and it will overshadow her Ohio (and RI) win. There will be even more talk about how completely unlikely it is for her to overtake Obama in delegates, and stories will go on and on about when she is going to drop out.

Unfortunately for Clinton, I think she needs March 4th to be decisive. She needs to WIN both Texas and Ohio - I don't care by how much, even just a percentage point. And THAT gives her fuel to put forward a bunch of different narrative-changing messages. Once again she can go back to her argument that she wins in the "big states" or the "states that matter" (they need to find a better way to say that) and therefore she is more "electable" and the better nominee choice. She can capitalize on that momentum with her supporters and doners, and I think clear wins in both TX and OH is the only way to stop the flight of the superdelegates from Hillary to Barack.

Now, I don't think that will happen. I think at this point, Hillary will be lucky to hold Ohio, but I'm still going to predict +6 Obama in TX and +1 Clinton in Ohio (Vermont Obama and RI Clinton but I don't know by how much.)


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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
39. You better hope that McCain runs a terrible campaign too then
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #39
64. Take a look.....
....it is no wish.
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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. You are seeing things and what you want to see,
not reality. That is the trouble with Obamamaniacs
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. Glue. Meet paper bag.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
20. Welcome to DU, Josie.
Don't let the assholes get you down.

:toast:
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KLee Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. l
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. This old meme? n/t
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Thurston Howell III Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
25. Because she's a DLCer who takes states and people for granted!
If she is a decent campaigner then she would have kept her margin from a month or two ago. Typical DLCer strategy! Only goes after a few states and blows it on an election for Democrats! Dean is right again about the fifty states!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. C'ya, don't let the doorknob hit ya on the way out!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. What's that about?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. Hi Hillary_Hillary.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. Silly me. I thought it was
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 03:00 AM by BushDespiser12
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
29. You do realize that a paradigm has changed for the nation and the world?
That the old ways of doing things won't work, for this new century, for this new decade
for the people, as had the old ways of doing things in the past, in order to find solutions and agreements on the terrible things that face this economy, this country, our environment and this planet?

The country needs new faces , new ideas on vision and discourse and that is why she is losing.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. New like a recycled Deval Patrick campaign.
:eyes:
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Let's go back to the 90's
now that is a blast to the past.
:eyes:

Including our virginity on politics and reality.
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BigDaddy44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #29
77. Ok, I'll bite
Whats the new ideal on "vision and discourse" that Obama offers? "Hope and change" without specifics means little. Also, what are the SUBSTANTIVE differences between what Obama and Clinton offer?

I see a new face. Now tell me the specifics that this new face will do. Not hope, not change. Specifics. All I heard in the debate was him going second and saying "I agree with Hillary".
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
30. OK, she's not running the worst campaign ever.
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 01:59 AM by Eric J in MN
Maybe she'll become president soon. If not she'll still be a US Senator from one of the biggest states in America.

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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
33. Giuliani's advisor's think that she is running a great campaign with top notch strategic thinking.
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. ROFL. that was a good one.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
35. Because she blew a 30-point lead, $140 million, and 80% Dem favorables.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. she's done. finished. over.
barring a political miracle, she is out of it. the only people that don't know that are her most diehard supporters.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
37. Rudy ran the worst campaign ever.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
45. She has a solid base of 42% and a ceiling of about 45%
When she ran in a crowded field she looked very strong. Once they were able to run one on one she suffered 11 straight landslide losses.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
48. TDTA
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
49. I loled
The OP is a massive fail.:eyes:
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
50. Behind by one million votes and one hundred fifty pledged delegates...
is NOT 'essentially tied'.

You evidently need a remedial course in basic math.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
62. And here prior to this thread I thought Newbie Josie....
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 09:25 AM by Hepburn
...only needed remedial courses in English and Logic! :hi:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
51. There've been a lot of bad campaigns out there.
Hillary Clinton's is just one of them.

She lost one of the largest leads in U.S. political history and no plan was in place past states contested Feb. 5th.

That doesn't say much about her campaign if you ask me.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
52. It's become a Talking point for so many Obamafolk, they just toss it out
over and over. They tag it onto every post ---over and over. silly
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ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
54. Frankenberry, I mean Fred Thompson and Rudy certainly ran
much worse campaigns than Hillary. I don't even think Hillary has run a bad campaign. She has some how convinced a whole lot of folks that she is supremely experienced and ready on day one after all. Beyond that, her campaign has been fairly ordinary and often feeling tired and like more of the same silly season stuff that people have come to expect from politicians. But ordinary and "same old, same old" doesn't equal "worst ever".

Obama, on the other hand, has run a surprisingly good campaign. Given that Hillary had the national name recognition, the backing of much of the Democratic electoral apparatus, and had the media narrative of being the sure winner going into the primary season; the fact that Obama is leading (and no - it is not essentially tied, the electoral math looks terrible for Hillary) at this point is quite a testament to what he has been able to do.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
55. Actually, yes she has run one of the worst campaigns ever.
Her campaign has made some many tactical errors it's not even funny. And as an Obama supporter and someone who has run a campaign, I'm saying this gently.

Her campaign has:

Mismanaged campaign funds
Did not make it clear who had what roles within the management of the campaign
Underestimated an opponent
Allowed surrogates (including Bill Clinton) to take the campaign off message thereby creating more problems for the campaign
Failed to have a plan to compete in caucus states
Failed to have a plan to compete in post Feb 5th states
Alienated voters (claiming caucus states and red states don't count)
Failed to find a genuine message to connect with voters
Allowed her campaign to focus on silly stuff (complaining about media coverage, accusations of plagiarism) that has backfired
Not apologizing for her war vote and ending the issue with that (I believe this would have brought in many more liberal Democrats to support her)

These are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.



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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
56. Um...
Almost beating someone is called losing.

Considering he has beaten her in 11 straight match ups, has more delegates, and more of the popular vote I would say that again, I think that speaks a lot about how good a candidate he is and has such a good team around him.
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
58. Because she started out WAY ahead
and the nomination appeared to be hers to lose and OBAMA CAME FROM BEHIND to now be slightly ahead? I think that says a GREAT DEAL about Obama, doesn't it? :shrug:

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
59. Republicans are gettin' worried, huh?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
60. true that and it speaks volumes about why Clinton has to stay the course all they way to the WH.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
61. You really need to ask? She had a huge advantage coming in: money,
name recognition, and the support of most of the establishment that had endorsed somebody. She should have crushed Obama in IA and NH. She did not.

That Obama was able to stop her in her tracks after months of the media telling us she was the inevitable nominee tell us a lot about him.

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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. Not really
Clinton was a paper tiger. She does not have enough of the personal qualities, (although I look past that) that a presidential candidate needs. She reminds me of someone in the back office, very competent and very hardworking but not someone you would want to go out and go shopping with. Kinda dour. She represens substantial change from Bush but not the radical change of Obama.

McCain will be the proverbial horse of a different color and I think Obama will have trouble with him. So far the media has pretty much stayed out of the Dem primary fight and is playing spectator. That will change almost ovenight when the general really kicks off.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
65. If Obama had lost 11 straight elections, he would have been gone.
The only thing keeping Hillary in is the name "Clinton."
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
67. Because all of the balloons at all of her appearences are already going flat!
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 10:10 AM by Major Hogwash
Nobody is blowing up her damn balloons!
Didn't you notice that?
I did.

That's a sure sign right there, that the air is coming out of her balloons.
We can hear the air leaking out of those balloons clear from here.

By the way, the Obama campaign doesn't spend much money on balloons.
His donations came from people who worked too damned hard for their money for him to go wasting it on party balloons.

Good thing, too.
Because McCain has already spent a lot of his money hiring all the clowns he can!


LoL
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
69. Ha! Funny. Nice try, but no banana. LOL LOL. nt
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
70. When Did the Wheels Came Off the Clinton Machine?
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 10:18 AM by mikekohr
It Began Long Before Iowa.

It is clear now that the Clinton camp made massive miscalculations from the very beginning of this campaign. While they raised record amounts of money, they spent record amounts of money on non productive, non substantive expenditures (ex. nearly $100,000.00 on food platters for campaign workers, staffers staying in high-end hotels, etc.) that left them limping out of Iowa after finishing third.

As a bystander in neighboring Illinois, I was alarmed at some of the reports coming out of Iowa with regards to how the Clinton campaign was being run. One report that made all of our local television channels was about the "trashing," of a Clinton, Iowa, office building by staffers of the Clinton campaign

http://www.democratictalkradio.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=1&TID=12753&SID=

While I was able to rationalize (not excuse), how such a thing may have occurred in the confusion to quickly get to New Hampshire, I was flummoxed as to why the Clinton camp decided to low-ball the repair/clean-up bill by $250.00 and let this event fester into $1,000,000.00 of bad press. It's clear now. They were running on financial fumes and the ether of ham fisted managerial incompetence.

Bringing back Maggie Williams was long overdue. It remains to be seen if it was too little too late.

mike kohr
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southern_dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
72. It's not the worse campaign ever
or even this year. That distinction belongs to Rudy "one delegate" Giuliani. However, to this point it has been a horrible campaign. She went from the inevitable nominee to on the brink of elimination.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
75. Because she had a huge head start with superdelegates
Obama has netted more pledged delegates in ever single day that there have been primaries or caucuses. The only reason that Hillary is even close was because she had a huge number of superdelegates endorse her early on.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
76. Because she's not running the worst campain ever?
That was a good practice zinger, though.
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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Just repeating what the media and Obamaniacs say
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adoraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
79. essentially tied is completely wrong
If you mean that by having to win 15% more of the remaining pledged delegates to tie Obama, then yeah you would be right, but doing the math says Obama has a huge advantage unless something really bad happens to him.
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ArizonaJosie Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. The closest race in a long time then
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
80. Riight! Obama overcoming her monster out-of-the-box average 35-pt lead is no big whoop.
Jeez, she walked in the door, took off her coat, and was at 50%. She had everything going for her: name recognition, party backing, a pile of cash ...... It doesn't take a genius to follow the actual trend of this election, but I suspect your convoluted take on this has more to do with sour grapes.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
82. Look where she started
She came into the race with:
- media support of people who have spoke of her running since 1992
- incredible name recognition and real knowledge beyond that of who she is
- Bill Clinton, giving her sole support from the part supestar
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
84. she put eggs in 2 baskets -Texas and Ohio
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