A comment about Dean's biography and his policies.

[AP]

First we'll start with the biography: I read a couple days ago that Dean and his wife have never made more than 170,000 in any one year, yet they've amassed over 3.4 million in wealth. (After taxes, they'd have to work at least 30 years to amass 3.4 mil, if they didn't get their money from anything but earned income.) How did they make their money? Well, their parents gave them enough money to get a loan to buy their house, so they didn't have to have a mortgage. In fact, in the last decade (I think the article said a decade), Dean's family gave him 1 million bucks in gifts. Dean also stands to inherit a lot of money, and may have already when his father died (or, more likely, his children got a big trust fund when their grandfather died).

Now to the policy:

Dean doesn't seem to be on board with progressive income taxation as much as the rest of the candidates, and some of the other candidates actually have proposals to reduce the tax burden on people who work for a living, and ask people who inherit and who get unearned income for living to bear a little more of the burden. Do the math for Dean and it looks like he has amassed most of his wealth from something other than working for a living. Hmm. Does that explain why he doesn't care so much about taxing people who work for living?

One of Dean's few policy proposals is his education plan which is basically a plan which allows students to take on more debt (as if they weren't already able to take on lots of debt). This is pretty rich for a guy who saw the value in getting his parents to help him avoid having a mortgage.

One more thing about taxes: Dean says that he's going to ask both the middle class and the rich to bear the tax burden for paying for his health care plan. However, look at his life. Where did he get the money to do the things he wanted to do? He got it from a non-compulsory tax on his and his wife's parents. His life is basically a tax on the wealthy. However, he doesn't think that's good enough for the rest of America?

What do people like Dean think Americans do to get ahead when they don't have rich parents like he had?

[JI7]

1. i have heard

that his goal is to simplify the tax system.

[AP]

2. Sounds like Steve Forbes.

[KittyWampus]

14. Simplify Tax System Is "Code" For Flat Tax

which many consider regressive.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I think that Dean's tax plan is sane

I will gladly give up my wonderful three bucks a paycheck tax break if it means I finally get health care, which I currently don't have and won't get at all if Bush remains in the White House (heck, I'll be lucky if I still have a job the way he's ruining the economy).

Let's look at some more of Dean's history, while we are at it. As I recall, he was able to get a lot of good policies through in VT by using incremental steps (look at health care, for example). Whoever is elected to clean up the mess Bush has made will have to fight special interest groups that have become more powerful while feeding at the GOP trough. History shows you don't get there by trying to get everything at once. You take it one step at a time. Dean has a track record to show he knows how to do this.

As for Dean's parents: Hey, my parents helped me get a car and a down payment on a house when I was starting out. Granted, it was three thousand bucks, but that's what families do. Anyway, I look not on his parents, but what Dean chose to do with his life. He didn't have to go to medical school or become a doctor. He could have gone into brokerage and would have probably done a lot better financially. What he didn't choose to do was to be an alcohol-abusing frat boy who used daddy's connections to get himself companies that he ran into the ground while coming out of the mess smelling like a rose.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

24. What about people who don't have parents who can help?

And you do see how gettin your parents to help with the car and house makes a big difference. Those are the two biggest expesnes for most Americans. Finance those purchases, and you're paying tripple or quadruple the principle by the time you're done.

I'm not saying it's a crime to do that, but it's a fact that this isn't an option for most Americans. And my point about Dean is that there's a little bit of hypocrisy for a guy with his biography to have an education plan that basically results in people taking out even more loans for college, and it's a little hypocritical to not talk more about progressive taxation when you're life is basically a progressive tax on your wealthy parents. And it's revealing that a person who makes most of their income NOT from earned income does not talk loudly and often about shifting some of the tax burden off labor and on to unearned income (cap gains, dividends, and inheritance).

[mouse7]

39. Like the Kennedy's, the Roosevelt's... n/t

[AP]

49. Unlike Dean, both were called traitors to their class.

Read Blumenthal's Clinton Wars. The first chapter explains why these two rich guys were liked by the masses. They tried to create an America in which people like Clinton and Edwards and Kucinich could become president. They were trying to create an America that wasn't reserved for Dean's class to run.

[mouse7]

74. Which is what Dean did

Dean rejected his parent's private club which evidentally meant a lot to them. Dean went against his father's wishes to run a mutual fund (which Dean actually did for a time), entered Med School, married out of class, moved to semi-rural Vermont and became a family doctor.

[Hep]

4. When I ask for a source, I get a lot of jibba jabba

Source for this please:

Dean says that he's going to ask both the middle class and the rich to bear the tax burden for paying for his health care plan.

[AP]

25. Selective memory much?

Dean and Gephardt want to rescind all Bush's tax breaks because Dean needs the money to pay for his health care plan. Remember?

[mouse7]

32. Return to Clinton-era tax levels - Economy worked under Clinton

This goes back to some basic common sense. If it ain't broke don't fix it. The economy worked while Clinton was President. It clearly doesn't under Dumbya. So you want to keep Dumbya stuff and throw away Clinton stuff?

That don't make no dang sense.

Where in law school did Edwards get the training to understand macroeconomics better than the Clinton administration proved it understood macroeconomics through success?

[AP]

50. Clinton did NOT say: let's return to Truman-era tax code, 'cause it worked

did he?

You can't take a 5 year old tax code and superimpose it on todays economy and get progressivity. In fact, it will be less progressive today than it was in 2000. Dean knows this is a gift to the wealthy. He's telling them he's going to make them better off than they were in 2000, but not as good as the Bush years. Dean thinks the middle class is too stupid to notice. It looks like he's right about that.

[mouse7]

85. Rubbish

You return the percentages to Clinton levels and adjust for inflation.

[Hep]

33. When I ask for a source all I get is jibba jabba

And thank you for proving it. Show me where Dean said it.

[AP]

52. You're not aware that Dean and Gephardt want to repeal ALL tax breaks?

If you don't know even this most basic stuff, on what are you basing your support for Dean? Fantasy?

[Hep]

54. Waiting for the source

You keep posting but what you never post is the source for the quote where Dean says what you claim he says. All I want is either a link to the quote or an admission that he never actually said what you claim he said.

There's a difference between sharing your interpretation of a policy and claiming Dean said something he didn't say. You really have to learn that distinction.

[AP]

62. http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=93

So I believe not only should we get rid of the $87 billion worth of tax cuts to pay to support our troops--even though I did not support the war in the beginning, I think we have to support our troops--I also believe we ought to get rid of the entire Bush tax cut. It is bad for the economy and it has not created one job.


It's amusing to me that in the process of finding you this quote people can got to this site and read about how Dean lied about his position on the 87 billion Iraq package.

Two birds with one stone.

[Hep]

66. Still waiting

You didn't claim Dean said he would roll back Bush's tax cuts. You claim he SAID he wanted to raise taxes on the middle class.

Is bertrand russell out there? Mr. Russell, what do you have to say about this?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hep]

76. Nope, you still don't understand the problem

Sorry.

[AP]

82. Seems like you can't explain the problem.

Unless the problem is that no criticism of Dean is valid, even when it's true.

[Hep]

86. I explained it quite well

actually. And I'll do it again:

There's a difference between sharing your interpretation of a policy and claiming Dean said something he didn't say. You really have to learn that distinction.

[mouse7]

84. Right... repeal the Dumbya tax cuts.

Dean hasn't said he would raise taxes above Clinton tax levels. He's said he would return them to Clinton Admin levels.

The economy worked in the Clinton Admin. You don't fix what ain't broke.

[Cheswick2.0]

5. what's wrong, nothing positive to say about Edwards today?

?

[Hep]

7. He once changed a baby's diaper in normal-people clothes.

It's true. I saw a picture.

[AP]

26. He also earned just about everything he has from his labor, unlike Dean.

It's a powerful symbol. It's more powerful than the diaper picture.

In fact, I think it's the symbol that will make a diffrence in whether we have a second term of Bush.

[Hep]

31. It's really the seething bitterness

that gets me, the unlike DEAN

Amazing how politics reduces some people to mental five year olds. I was so used to seeing it exclusively on the right that I have no idea how to handle it from the left.

[mouse7]

35. His labor as a filthy rich trial lawyer.

Edwards has been a trial lawyer far longer than he was anything else.

[Hep]

41. but but but

He protected some girl whose guts were sucked out by a pool drain.

So obviously he's president material. Moreso than lassy, who despite saving many kids who fell down wells, lacked the foreign policy experience to hold office.

Edwards gets more money from the legal industry than Bush does, but people here don't like to talk about that. Especially Edwards fans who spend five times more energy talking about Dean than Edwards.

[AP]

67. Yeah. He worked for a living.

[mouse7]

88. So did Dean. As a family doctor in a semi-rural area

Last I checked, rural areas are CRYING to get family doctors to open practices.

By Dean and his wife opening family practices in semi-rural Vermont, they probably did as much to aid a community stay a community as any possibly could.

[AP]

109. He has over 3.4 million. Never earned more than 185K with his wife.

His family has given him over 1 million bucks in gifts.

Clearly a lot of his wealth has come from something other than working for a living.

[mouse7]

113. Wealth they don't spend.

Whatever wealth the Deans have gotten is still sitting there mostly unused. The Deans were still listed in the local phone book until the Presidential Campaign really geared up. They live in a regular house, not a mansion.

The Deans live a normal middle class lifestyle.

The money didn't come from Pablo Escobar. It was legally acquired. Who the hell cares.

[Hep]

115. I grew up fairly priveledged

I suppose I'm to be hated too.

[mouse7]

116. I grew up poor.

OBEY ME!

[mouse7]

117. I grew up poor.

Obey my Will!

[Hep]

119. Actually, I started out poor and then got priviledged

BE CONFUSED ABOUT ME!

[indigo32]

108. And Dean didn't?

OK. Last I checked it wasn't that easy to become an MD... or more folks would be doing it. And yes... they do work for a living.

[billbuckhead]

8. Dean has the least impressive biography of our candidates

Do we really need another spoiled ivy leaguer? Dean's biography is embarassing. This guy Dean has a lot of chutzpah asking the middle class for more taxes.

[Hep]

12. When I ask for a source, all I get is jibba jabba

source for this please:

asking the middle class for more taxes.

[baggypants]

13. I think it was Winston Churchill who said....

Taxing a person into prosperity is like trying to lift up a bucket he or she is standing in.

[Raya]

17. You are kidding. Don't we all love the good country Doctor.

You aren't talking about Dr. Dean of "country Doctor," "Us rural people . . ." peace-activist, fighter for progressive values, fame are you?

Don't you know he struggled from simple upbringing in a small 3 bedroom apt and only 1 maid to going to college and working on construction jobs to giving his life to service of mankind in medicine etc.....

Don't you believe in the wonderfull Dr. Dean?

[Hep]

18. Wow!

I don't even know how to respond to this. It's like it's written in a different language. All I can say is that it's fairly obvious that Dr. Dean has made quite an impression on a LOT of people!

[mkultra]

19. from deans web site

The ideologues gathered around the President have an ambitious goal — ,to repeal the progressive legacy of the twentieth century. They want to return to a time when private wealth was insulated from the graduated income tax,and the many labored for the benefit of the few. They would ignore the widening gap between rich and poor, shred the safety nets that provide at least some protection for the unfortunate, and dismantle the safeguards that protect consumers and workers alike.

My economic policies for America are based on four fundamentals:

Repeal the Bush tax cuts, and use those funds to pay for universal health care, homeland security, and investments in job creation that benefit all Americans.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.




Looks like we know where the jibba jabba is comin from

[AP]

27. What little there is here isn't comforting.

Run a balanced budget? That's what Hoover wanted.

Fairer and simpler? What does that mean?

Why can't Dean say something more concrete? The other candidates do.

This is the most important issue to me -- the transfer of wealth from the middle and working class to the rich -- and Dean says nothing smart on this issue.

[Hep]

38. When I ask for a source, all I get is jibba jabba

Still waiting for the source of the quote.

[mouse7]

47. Still stomping feet trying to claim no policy papers on Dean site?

Last time several people LOLed at your weak attempts to claim there's no policy papers on the Dean site.

It really looked ridiculous to the whole board. It wasn't a policy dispute. It was you claiming the links to policy statements that were on the page everyone could see with their own eyes didn't exist.

Wasn't one of your better days at all.

[AP]

55. Every other candidate manages to work policy into their utterances. Dean..

...buries his on his website. And even on the web site, their super-light on policy.

I think that's SUPER revealing.

Laugh all you want.

[Hep]

57. Thanks for permission to laugh

not that I needed it.

Have that source yet?

[AP]

64. http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=93

see above.

[Hep]

79. *looks at watch*

I just don't think I'm going to get the information I'm looing for today.

[AP]

83. Look at post 65 instead.

[Hep]

87. You think by now I haven't looked at it?

*looks at watch again*

You should read my thread in the AA forum about blatant misrepresentation.

[mouse7]

90. Buries the links at the top of the front page - LOL!

11 categories of policies with 8-10 policy papers linked to each and every category.

That's more than 100.

Yeah...right.

[Hep]

92. People think what they want

and they will use the most dubious and underhanded butchering of logic and integrity to back it up.

[Hep]

36. So where is it?

Where does Dean say he wants more money from the middle class?

The claim was that he SAID it. I'm looking for a little integrity here. Who's going to come through for me today?

No one has so far. I'm not holding my breath.

[AP]

69. Post 65.

[Hep]

80. Uh, no.

And the wait continues

[AP]

89. See, by ingnoring the truth...

...you're proving that it's a waste of my time to engage with you.

[Hep]

91. You have yet to provide the source I asked for yesterday!

And you tell me it's a waste of YOUR time engaging me? The hilarity never stops!

Here, from another forum:

But I will point out that the claims are that dean is saying this, or ASKING that. What you are talking about is a conclusion you are drawing based on his policies. You are welcome to that interpretation but MUST point out that this is the case. If you say that Dean has ever said he wants to raise taxes on the middle class, you had better either PROVIDE the quote or point out that this is an interpretation and NOT a claim that he made any such comment. Otherwise, it's just inflammatory.

It's not just important to HAVE debate, we have to RAISE THE LEVEL of debate. That is certainly not happening when claims like this are being made. And it's not just done against Dean. There are Dean supporters doing the same thing. This is happening all over the place, and I wish we could stop it.

[AP]

93. Incidentally, Hep, there's something I do when a poster proves they're

just wasting my time, and I just did it to you thanks to your response to the answer to your badgering which is in post 65.

[Hep]

95. Thanks for advertizing!

Now we all know that some grandstanding was taking place. I'mproud of the fact that I ignore people without feeling the need to advertize it to them. Pretty weak, but whatever!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

20. RFK and Teddy Grew Up Filthy Rich

but had/have no problem identifying with the average person. one does not have to experience class struggle in order to do what's right for mankind. Many revolutionaries came from affluent families. It's a question of empathy.

[AP]

29. Their biography is INCOMPATIBLE with their policies. Good for them.

Dean, on the other hand, has no concrete plans for progressivity, and says that the middle class doesn't need the few tax breaks they got in the last couple years. Dean's proposed education plan is for getting students into MORE debt and having taxpayers subsidize their interest payments (which we already do).

Claiborn Pell might have been filthy rich. But he knew that it was important to give students grants to reduce their debt load.

[mouse7]

94. Dean says the middle class prefer to get health insurance

Dean says the middle class prefers to get real health insureance they can count on then a couple hundred dollars in tax cuts per year that are nothing but a cover for the extreme tax xuts the rich got. The Bush middle class tax breaks are MEANINGLESS. Dean is right and the polls say it.

[AP]

110. Middle class's real plobem: spending more than they earn.

They need more wealth, which means more options and more political power.

Taxes and driving down wages are the two biggest ways the Republicans transfer wealth from bottom to top. Dean's proposing a band aid for the problem. Other candidates have a much smarter approach which places a fair allocation of the tax burden front and center.

[Hep]

120. They spend more than they earn, therefore they need more wealth

Yeah, that's the solution. Not spending as much is out of the question. I see now how important fiscal responsibility is around here.

[jsw_81]

48. Are you kidding me?

Dean has won TEN elections in a row, including eight statewide. Plus he's been a successful businessman and a family doctor. Now he's the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination. Embarassing? I think not. What's embarassing is how desperate and pathetic the "stop Dean!" people have become.

[AP]

56. I'm deadly serious. Dean's biography will cost the Democrats victory if

he's nominated.

That's my prediction.

Laugh all you want, but I'm not kidding.

[jsw_81]

63. Your prediction is nonsense

Four of the last six presidents have been Yalies, and seven have gone to Harvard (eight if you count Gore, who won the popular vote in 2000). Two went to Princeton.

Dean's "elite" biography won't hurt him one bit, especially when he goes up against Bush, a man who is ten times more of an elitist than Dean ever was.

[AP]

70. Read the Clinton Wars. Blumenthals says Bush I looked on Yale law school

students with disdain.

[mouse7]

96. Lord knows the world hates small town family doctors

That's what Dean is. A rural area family doctor. WHAT A BLIGHT ON THE WORLD!

[TLM]

104. Trial Lawyer Trial Lawyer Trial Lawyer Trial Lawyer Trial Lawyer

That's all we'll hear if Edwards is the nominee.

Trial Lawyer vs Family Doctor.

[newsjunkie]

122. Well,I'm extremely proud of him as an American

looking at the way he's conducted his life and family and political actions too. ..and I tell him that every time I send him another check. I thank him for his courage and honesty and obvious love of America. It takes a lot of energy and guts to do what he's accomplishing. Although deadly serious about beating Bush,he's also funny too. He gets the humor in all this just like we do. I love it when he says that line about 'picking buckshot out his rear-end' from the fire of the other candidates concerning him... and he calls Bushs education reform 'No school board left standing'. haha I can't wait to see him match that wit and fire up on the stage in a debate with the UH...DUH.. UH chimpy without his teleprompter.

[Duder]

9. A couple of corrections...

" I read a couple days ago that Dean and his wife have never made more than 170,000 in any one year..."

False, their adjusted gross income was $183,585 in 1998 and $175, 817 in 1999.

"In fact, in the last decade (I think the article said a decade)"

The article said two decades.

As for tax policy... Gephardt's dad drove a milk truck which would kind of undermine your implied class warfare "son of a mill worker" rich parent argument.

[AP]

34. I don't understand the point about Gephardt.

All I'm talking about is the interesting contrasts and consistencies between biography and policy.

Thanks for getting me those numbers.

[robbedvoter]

10. More dean family values:

http://Blog.forclark.com/story/2003/12/28/94337/518

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

21. Yours and the other posts there have been a turning point for us.

I really did not realize the hatred that existed within our party.

Dean represents hope to us, the others really do not. Clark did for a while, but not now.

[Melinda]

15. Dean says that where? Come on, prove your assertion

Dean says that he's going to ask both the middle class and the rich to bear the tax burden for paying for his health care plan.

Tired meme. Got link?

[AP]

37. see above -- the "selective memory, much" post.

It's amazing to me that understanding tax policy statements is not something easily done in relation to Dean for so many people here.

[Hep]

42. We're still waiting

You claimed he said something that I maintain he never said. When will you back it up? Today?

[AP]

58. You don't know that dean proposes to roll back entire Bush tax package

INCLUDING breaks for middle class.

That's stunning.

[Hep]

61. Still waiting, and the jibba jabba is in the house!

Sourse for the quote that Dean said what you claim he said, please.

[AP]

65. Even better proof that Dean wants to tax the hell out of middle class:

Dean calls the ad "false," but Club for Growth TV ad -- saying he's called for a big tax increase -- is mostly right

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=113

Howard Dean is firmly on the record in favor of repealing both tax-cut bills signed by President Bush in 2001 and 2003, and returning to tax rates that prevailed under Bill Clinton. {See that Hep, "firmly on the record"?}

That would do more than just canceling some scheduled tax cuts that haven't yet taken effect -- it would clearly require raising taxes from where they are today. The table below, from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Institute, calculates how the Bush cuts are affecting families in various situations for the current tax year. Clearly the affluent gain most, just as they currently pay the most taxes. But a total repeal of the Bush tax cuts would also cost $350 for a single taxpayer making as little as $15,000 a year. And for a typical middle-income family making $50,000 a year, with two children under age 17 qualifying for sweetened per-child tax credits, total repeal would amount to a tax increase of $1,773.

[AP]

73. Crickets, Hep. Where are you?

This is the longest it has taken you to reply to any one of my posts in this thread.

Revealing.

[Hep]

75. Leave it to you to fault a guy for taking a piss

What are you, my wife?

Still waiting for you to back up your claim. You've proven my jibba jabba theory correct.

[mouse7]

97. Value of Health Insurance means net increase of thousands

If you compare the value of the tax cuts to middle claass families to the value of what the Dean health care plan adds to the middle-class family, the net increase for middle class families with the Dean health care plan is thousands of dollars.

[TLM]

105. So you feel Clinton taxed the hell out of the middle class?

"returning to tax rates that prevailed under Bill Clinton"

In order for your claim that Dean wants to "tax the hell out of middle class" you must then be basing that on the premise that Clinton "tax the hell out of middle class" since those are the levels Dean wants to return to.


Sad some dems are too coawardly to take on the whole Bush tax fraud, and want to try and prop up some of that bad policy instead of putting forth real tax reform.

[Hawkeye-X]

118. Hep is right. More jibba jabba, and I am going to point you to this ..

website:

http://www.bushtax.com

Hawkeye-X

[Hep]

121. Amazing

So much talk here about how Dean was the first to attack and that Dean is the bad guy and that Dean doesn't focus on Bush enough. Now look. Gep has a page attacking Dean. Kucinich has a page attacking Dean. Does Dean have pages attacking them? Nope. Do they have pages attacking Bush? Nope. Dean does though. And it's well done!

[madfloridian]

16. In effect you are saying that only poor folks should run for president.

That is such a hard post to respond to because of the silly statements. Pathetic.

[mkultra]

22. which candidate is that

So which candidate is the poor one then. Is it Edwards?

[HFishbine]

23. Nope, wouldn't be Edwards. Who is poorest? Richest?

Net Worth
---------

Kerry: Between $165 and $626 million (more than Bush and Cheney combined)

Edwards: Between $8.7 million and $36.5 million

Dean: between $2.2 million and $5 million

Clark: Between $3 million and $3.5 million

Lieberman: Between $320,000 and $1.5 million

Gephardt: Between $153,000 and $545,000

Braun: Between $127,000 and $380,000

Kucincich: Between $2,000 to $32,000

http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2003/06/16/rtr1001356.html

http://www.bop2004.org/bop2004/printer-friendly.aspx?aid=1

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A2964-2003Dec15¬Found=true

[AP]

43. What matters to me is which candidate EARNED his wealth, rather than

inherited it or was given it as a gift.

Edwards is on the top of that list in terms of absolute wealth. Kucinich is probably on top of that list in terms of percentage of wealth. However, all the unearned income Edwards has made came from an investment of earned income.

It's not a surprise to me that Edwards and Kucinich are two of my favorite candidates.

[mouse7]

51. Bill Gates earned all his wealth. Mother Teresa didn't

Gates is still the biggest predator in US industry.

...as for the kids of elites being incapable of doing good, I think those who know Mother Teresa's bio would disagree. She was a child of wealth.

[Hep]

59. The insinuations being made about class and priveledge here

Are amazing, and quite telling in terms of whose making that argument.

[AP]

72. I'm bascically repeating statements made by Sid Blumenthal and Kevin

Phillips and applying them to Dean.

[Hep]

81. Great. Now you have more sources to provide

You've created quite a mound of work. I recommend you get right on it.

[AP]

71. Actually, Gates got lots of help from his rich dad.

Obviously, it's a fraction of what he ultimately made.

Interestingly, his father is a big proponent of inheritance tax, but, when asked by the NY Times if he thought his son would have worked as hard if he knew he was going to inherit 100% of his father's wealthy, his father said that he'd NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT ANGLE BEFORE, and he agreed that yes, that might be true and and that that was a new good reason to be against Bush's rollback of estate tax.

Gates's ambition to be rich exceeded the wealth he stood to inherit.

The whole thing is very interesting.

[Mairead]

101. 'Gates earned all his wealth' is a crock. His family was wealthy

and he started microsoft with $1M in family money

[newsjunkie]

123. Edwards is too nice

and is a great guy but I dont think he could beat Bush. I sure like him though. I wish he'd keep his senate seat.

[AP]

40. What makes you think that?

Regardless of Dean's biography, I think his politics on taxes and aid to Wall St. suck.

When you throw in the biography, I think it puts those policies into relief.

I think FDR was one of the best presidents ever. I'm not surprised he was called a traitor to his class.

When Dean gets called a traitor to his class for economic reasons (ie, not for whom he married) give me a call.

[lastliberalintexas]

28. I guess this means

we'll never see any of the Edwards kids running for President, since they certainly haven't grown up as the son of a mill worker. :shrug:


What a ridiculous attack on one of our Dem candidates. Edwards has much to recommend him- go post a positive thread about him rather than one bashing another Dem (without links and inaccurately citing proposals, even). :-)

[AP]

44. If they turned out to be traitors to their class, they'd be cool with me.

If they turned into "Democrats" who wanted to protect their sources of wealth, privilege and power, I wouldn't vote for them.

C'mon. This stuff is obvious. Why are people having such a hard time understanding my point?

[HFishbine]

78. Because

When your point is made in defense of Edwards, it's hypocritical. Edward's didn't exaclty emass his wealth by working along side his daddy in the mill day after day. In fact, his largest payday was money collected from an insurance company for his share of a mutli-million dollar jury award for a single case. Add to that Edward's support of taxpayer handouts to big businesses and it just ludicrous to try to paint Edwards as somehow "cleaner" than other candidates.

[AP]

125. Edwards definitely worked hard to get the money he earned.

Read Four Trials and you'll understand.

He took cases other people didn't want early in his career. Throughout his career he worked hard and always went the extra mile. He did what nobody else could do.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

126. What are you talking about?

I'm not Edwards. I have nothing to do with the Edwards campaign. I'm discussing something that is important: the link between biography and policies.

[Mairead]

102. "Why are people having such a hard time understanding my point?"

The densest people are those with no desire to understand.

[Hep]

103. Maybe your point is just screwed up?

So few people actually accept that as a possibility.

[Mairead]

127. Did you note the quotes?

[jsw_81]

30. Give me a break

It's pretty lame for you to attack Dean simply because he was born into a comfortable family. It's not like he had any choice in the matter, and it's not like he just rested on his laurels. He gave up a lucrative career on Wall Street and moved to rural Vermont so he could became a family doctor. And if you saw that Newsweek article a few weeks ago, you would know that the governor's lifestyle is far from luxurious.

Now compare that with Edwards. While Dean was delivering babies, helping people with the flu, and stitching up wounds, Edwards was chasing ambulances and convincing gullible jurors to award his clients tens of millions of dollars simply because they broke their neck in a swimming pool or spilled some hot coffee. And Edwards has not one but two North Carolina mansions, one of which is located right on the beach. And he's the man of the people we should all support?

[lastliberalintexas]

45. No

First and foremost, as an atty myself, I get very offended at the characterization of Edwards as an ambulance chaser, when nothing could be further from the truth. Edwards did a great service in his career by serving consumers and working people against the interests of Corporate America. Was he well compensated for that? Yes, but that doesn't diminish the great work he did. (and no, not every atty becomes that wealthy- I would be in Kucinich's camp as far as net worth is concerned :-))

Edwards is a good candidate, and would make a great president. He would be worlds above what we currently have, and he would attack certain interests (ie, insurance) which have the repubs in their pockets and have consumers nailed to the wall. Edwards doesn't deserve to be attacked- just like Dean. The circular firing squad does no one any good, and doesn't help Dean (my candidate too). Keep it positive and you might convince someone to "convert"!

[AP]

46. You give me a break. I'm "attacking" Dean's politics, which I'm...

...I'm contrasting to his biography.

[mouse7]

53. Go ahead an yell about Mother Teresa's privileged childhood.

This ought to be fun to watch.

[AP]

60. Again, traitor to class? Dean's policies are COMPATIBLE with his biography

Call me the day someone calls him a traitor to his class.

[mouse7]

99. Dean revolted against all his families beliefs

Dean's folks wanted him in their private Long Island club, Dean refused. Dean's dad wanted him in finance like his dad was. Dean tried it, hated it, and then returned to school so he could go to med school. Dean married out of class. Dean moved to Vermont and became a small town doctor.

Sorry. Nobody is buying it, AP. People don't hate those who become small-town family doctors.

[AP]

111. And they gave him over a million dollars as a reward for doing so.

Yeah!

[Hep]

112. It's their business

Why you're so wrapped up in their lives is a mystery.

Butnot really a mystery at all, you know?

[mouse7]

114. The money is sitting there mosly unused

The Deans clearly live a middle class existance.

The money? Who cares. It wasn't like it came from Pable Escobar or something. It wasn't stolen. It was legally acquired. Who the hell cares.

[AP]

124. I care. I think it's a terrible symbol.

[Killarney]

77. Kennedy anyone?

Yes, Dean was born rich. He won the birth lottery. Is that a crime? Will that automatically make him a bad president? Hell no! Kennedy is a perfect example of this. He won the birth lottery also, but was a fantastic president.

[KaraokeKarlton]

100. Where are the links to back up all these claims?

First of all, Dean "inherited" $40,000 from his family. He invested it wisely right from the get go and that's how he built up his "wealth". He lives in a modest home and his kids have always attended public school. He drives an old rusted out Bronco or Blazer made in the 80's.

Also, his family was NOT filthy rich. They bought an apartment in a nice area of NY a long, long time ago. He didn't grow up in a mansion and has never lived in one. My state doesn't even have a governor's mansion.

Howard Dean has worked hard to get everything he has on his own, and he's incredibly thrifty and a saver, not a big spender. Even though Edwards came from a "poor" family, he lives more of the kind of lifestyle you're describing than Dean ever has.

:eyes:

[cryofan]

106. Exactly! And that is why the elite media and Establishment love Dean

Those who head up the elite media, the Establishment figures, and ALL wealthy or well-off. And they see in Dean what you see in Dean--someone who is sympathetic to the cause of the rich and the wealthy. No wonder the papers and TV is filled to the brim with news about Dean

[Hep]

107. LOL!

The establishment loves Dean! Good one!