Gov Dean responds to newspapers "MIA/POW" attack

[Melinda]

Gov. Dean responds: 'I was deeply offended by your Sunday editorial'

I was deeply offended by your Sunday editorial, entitled "Dean's Answer Reveals More Than Intended." To even suggest that I would use the capture and murder of my 24-year-old brother for political gain is offensive and beyond the pale. In the 29 years since my brother's disappearance I have never concealed the fact my brother was a civilian. On November 23 of this year, his remains were repatriated with full military honors, as is common practice for Americans missing in that region, and my mother and brothers and I attended the repatriation ceremony.

Over the summer I was asked to fill out a questionnaire by the QUAD-CITY TIMES in which I shared the story of my brother Charlie. Contrary to the QUAD-CITY TIMES, he was neither a renegade nor an anti-war activist. He was president of his high school class and a respected member of the University of North Carolina student government.

Charlie left home in 1974, filled with passion and idealism, determined to learn more about the world. When he was abducted by communist soldiers in Laos, my family and I experienced the painful uncertainty of having a family member listed as Prisoner of War/Missing in Action. The grief and anxiety associated with that term are familiar to far too many families across America. Many of those families never saw their loved ones alive again, including my own.

The grief I felt at my family's loss, as well as the support I received from the military in finding his remains, affected me greatly. I also gained a profound respect for the men and women in uniform who helped my family during that period, and ultimately succeeded in unearthing Charlie's remains.

My thanks and appreciation for that help, and the great professionalism with which it was given, is deep and lasting.

What matters to me is not whether an editorial board offends me. What matters is that the 72,000 Quad-Citians who read Sunday's paper know of the great respect I have for the military, and especially for the families whose own sons or daughters are being sent to war today.

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1022328&l=1&t=Opinion&c=22,1022328

[Scott Lee]

1. Now watch - the Dean detracting spinners will use this

"What matters is that the 72,000 Quad-Citians who read Sunday's paper know of the great respect I have for the military, and especially for the families whose own sons or daughters are being sent to war today."


to show that "Howard Dean approves of the war now".

Bet me.

[Padraig18]

2. No bet from me.

It'll happen--watch. :eyes:

[mouse7]

19. How about a pool on when it happens today

I've got a buck on 6:55 pm EST.

[Skwmom]

26. I think there is definitely spinning going on.

However, it is Howard Dean that is doing the spinning.

[joefree1]

39. That's new, Dean is spinning?

I thougth the media said Dean was too frank? :shrug:

[Skwmom]

58. Dean is too frank, Dean is a straight shooter because the

media (and Dean) says so? LOL.

[roguevalley]

3. Good for him. What a low, low blow.

[madfloridian]

4. Good to see him speak out for himself so intelligently.

:hi:

[askew]

5. Good for Dean.

That was a disgustingly low blow and I am glad that Dean wrote in to correct the record. That's the second time he has had a letter published, correct?

[BeyondGeography]

6. Good letter from Howard

And people should lay off his wife as well.

And that's from a Clark supporter, OK? There are plenty of political issues we can disagree on. Family matters should be totally off limits.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

7. Yes!

Agree 100%

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. My sentiments exactly. Thank you

from another Clark supporter. Good for Dean that he didn't sit back and take that.

[Melinda]

9. And for the doubters: PROOF of Charlie Dean's POW/MIA status

And so designated by the US government, Department of Defense:

CIVILIAN Laos GROUND DEAN, CHARLES MM 1974/09/10 NY

http://www.aiipowmia.com/usg/civilians.html

[windansea]

12. yes but not proof

Dean answered the question properly...which was asking about any family members that have "severved" in the armed forces I believe

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

22. interesting that he didn't bother with any reference to the lie he told

in response to the questionnaire which started the whole brouhaha.

there's the pattern, screw up and then whine when people get pissed off.

[windansea]

23. yep...and here it is in black and white

The candidates were asked to complete this sentence: My closest living relative in the armed services is...?

Dean's reply: "...my brother is a POW/MIA in Laos, but is almost certainly dead."

judge for yourself if this was a truthfull answer

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1022147&t=Opinion&c=22,1022147

[madfloridian]

30. Doggone it, Bearfarts, am I going to have to donate again?

Just for you?

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. I SWEAR ON MY BEST DOG the following is true

there was more to that post that i edited out before posting.

'maybe it's just another fund raising gimmick. i bet that flap was good for a hundred grand.'

i guess i'll have to revise my guess upward by whatever you donated.

[MIMStigator]

10. "who is your closest living relative in the ARMED SERVICES"

Dean shared the story of his brother Charlie when he answered that question. His letter doesn't say why he did that since his brother wasn't in the armed services.

[Melinda]

15. My fiancee died in Viet Nam... have you ever lost a loved one to war?

After 30 years I STILL have difficulty talking about Greg and his death... the emotional response is VISCERAL - can you understand this?

Charles Dean died in Laos during the Viet Nam war, and regardless how you or anyone else might respond to a questionaire like that one, I KNOW HOW I would respond, and I have no need to question Dr. Dean's response - he lost his brother to that fucking mess... OUR losses are immeasurable.

Enjoy your entrails.

[sandnsea]

61. My cousin was an Air Force POW

In Hanoi. We didn't even know if he was alive until he just turned up in the POW release. So it has some meaning to me too. These kinds of sacrifices due to military service are not the same as someone who was toodling around doing who knows what. Especially for servicemen who didn't believe in that war, but went when drafted anyway.

Howard Dean was wrong to answer this question that way. And he hasn't said why he did it either.

[madfloridian]

55. You carry things way too far.

You go beyond decency.

[Cheswick2.0]

11. thanks for sharing this

I probably would not have seen it otherwise. I thought the attacks on him because of his brother were rancid. They reminded me of the attacks on Clinton and Gore. Yet we are supposed to just take on trust that all of this is coming from other democrats.

[JI7]

13. what exactly was the "MIA/POW attack" ?

can someone quote if possible ?

[Melinda]

16. Read his letter - it's all there.

Similar attacks are all over this board too; here's one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=43978#44111

[Lobo_13]

18. From what I remember

I don't have the link (because I'm lazy), but it was a very vitriolic editorial based on a questionairre that the candidates filled out for one editorial board or another.

One of the questions was about whether the candidates had any family members who were POW/MIA. (Some people say it was military service, but that's not what I remember.) He answered that his brother was classified POW/MIA and was believed to be dead.

The editorial writer got his panties in a twist about Dean inferring that his brother was in the military, including attacking his brother's status with accusations that he was a communist sympathizer, etc, and so on.

It was a Coulteresque hit piece.

Good on the Governor for pushing back.

[bearfartinthewoods]

60. accuracy patrol......your memory is flawed

you wrote:

'One of the questions was about whether the candidates had any family members who were POW/MIA. (Some people say it was military service, but that's not what I remember.) '


the request contained NO mention of POW/MIA.

the request was to complete this sentance:
My closest living relative in the armed services is...?

[windansea]

21. here is the question and link to original article

The candidates were asked to complete this sentence: My closest living relative in the armed services is...?

Dean's reply: "...my brother is a POW/MIA in Laos, but is almost certainly dead."

judge for yourself if this was a truthfull answer

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1022147&t=Opinion&c=22,1022147

[Skwmom]

25. So how was his brother in the armed forces? e/o/m.

[windansea]

27. he wasn't n/t

[Justice]

14. Good Strong Letter by Dean

but shows great compassion and feeling.

Thanks for posting it. It was sad to watch Dean and his family in the shots that were shown during the repatriation ceremony. To politicize the event as the republicans did was digusting.

[slinkerwink]

17. good rebuttal by Dean!

[Scott Lee]

24. Deans trounces another low-blow attack. Well done.

[last1standing]

28. It's funny how often Dean's called a liar.

Every time he's found to be telling the truth, but there are so many here afraid of him they sink to the level of repubs to discredit a good man.

It's a shame.

[bearfartinthewoods]

29. have you seen any proof that he was ever a POW?

we know for sure he was NOT missing in action since that term is reserved for people in service of the USA and the brother was a civilian. we don't even know he was a POW.

that you accept his answer as a truthful statement is amazing, given the facts as we know them.

[last1standing]

33. The facts as we know them is that he was listed as POW/MIA

By the Pentagon. The info has been posted here many times.

Bear, please try to post something that isn't anti-Dean sometime. It would be great to be able to have a nonantagonistic discussion with you. As it stands, every time we are in a thread together I have to correct your misleading statements. Do you really hate Dean that much?

[bearfartinthewoods]

36. the MIA/POW listing has been repeatedly refuted

his brother was listed as MM which is the designation for civilian.

i don't actually hate dean. i just don't want him as our nominee.

[last1standing]

40. As far as I can tell, MM is a listing under MIA/POW.

If that's not right, fine, but it is an easy one to get wrong EVEN for Dean.

As for hating Dean, you seem to have alot of anger to follow these threads around trying to paint him as a horrible human being and your sig line usually has an anti-Dean reference. When was the last time you made a positive post about a candidate? Edwards has alot of great things about him and this would be the forum to post them in. It can't be because of all the other Edwards posts.

[bearfartinthewoods]

44. the designator isn't the base lie

the base lie was that his brother was in the service...as per the original question.

my sig line is about strategy, not about dean.

as for Edwards, he isn't going to be the nominee as things stand now
so pumping him would be a waste of my time. i tried a positive Edwards thread and it sank. i'm not into head banging against brick walls.

[sangha]

46. Either way, Charlie wasn't in the armed services

No matter how it's spun, MIA/POW or not, the question was about family members in the armed services. It wasn't a question about Viet Nam.

At it's very best, Dean's answer was confusing and non-responsive.

[dsc]

42. Post 9

It would be really nice if people actually read the threads.

[KittyWampus]

31. Well Dean, Your Campaign Used Your Dead Brother To Attack Clark

Clark answered a joking question about the Democratic Candidates having a skiing contest with a factual statement like "I was recovering from my wounds while Dean was skiing in Vermont"...

And Dean's campaign isses a press release attacking Clark because he DARED say anything less than glowing about Dean whlist Dean was recovering his brothers remains.

Disgusting, and there's no way for Dean or his supporters to spin that.
:puke:

[Melinda]

32. What a load of crap.

Talk about spin. Clark's "joke" couldn't have been more transparent -the implication positively screamed "draft dodger". Joke my ass, Clark used the same slimey, underhanded, low down tactics that the GOP used on Clinton and we all know it.

Gosh, wonder where he learned them?

:puke:

[SahaleArm]

59. No that's Dean falsely claiming his brother served in the armed forces n/t

[madfloridian]

56. I am going to save that statement of yours.

I want to remember it. This is poor taste. It does not help your candidate.

[robbedvoter]

35. here's HD having respect for the military (Aspen time):

"It was like a scene from the movie `Alice's Restaurant,' " Dr. Dean said. "There was every kind of person you can imagine. Guys who weighed 375, guys who were 6-feet-5 with hair down to their knees and needle tracks up and down their arms."
 Dr. Dean said he  saw a young man sharing his urine specimen with a fellow draftee.  "I mean, that is what it was like," Dr. Dean said. "Welcome to the U.S. Army, boys."

[Scott Lee]

37. Sounds like he was really there, to me.

What did you want - an essay from "Stars and Stripes"?

[robbedvoter]

38. He was there - where? And where is the respect he claims to have?

These comments were addressed to the schmucks that didn't get off like he did.
You know, the poor and un-connected.

[joefree1]

43. Oh oh, class war fare

My friends and family weren't rich and they tried getting out of that war anyway possible. OK, I was lucky to have a high lottery number so I didn't go. However my brother in law did go, as well as many of my friends and family, but he supports Dean. He wished hadn't gone to Vietnam now.

So what did Dean do wrong?

Use any excuse possible not to go to that stupid war? I wish everyone didn't have to go. I'm glad Clinton got out too.

Were the x-rays bogus? There's no proof of that.

Should he have not gone skiing because he escaped not going to that stupid war? Why? He did the right thing.

Leave war = patriotism argument to the rethuglicans. They're better at it.

[robbedvoter]

45. What he did wrong, was to express his contempt for those who went

[chocolateeater]

52. So is "schmucks" a term of endearment?

[chocolateeater]

47. At Ft Hamilton in Brooklyn is where.

Also how do you know nobody else there got a deferment? I would say that the fellow with the needle tracks probably "got off" himself IMHO. I also don't think calling draftees "schmucks" is respectful.

[Melinda]

49. He was at the induction center, d'oh! Did you think he was rollerskating?

And those comments were not addressed to any particular persons or group, but a narrative of what he observed related in an interview. I remember the Vietnam war all too well, and all too many young men of my generation doing what they felt they needed to do, and I know Dr. Dean's narrative is spot on.

Where were you between 1963 and 1972 anyway, robbedvoter?

[Melinda]

50. I'm alerting on your post.

Too many shed their blood for you to be calling them "schmucks".

[arewethereyet]

41. well this is helpful

I am glad to hear that Dr Dean was not lying about his brother being POW/MIA, really.

However he still took quite a leap to refer to his non-military brother as the object of the answer to this question "My closest living relative in the armed services is...?" (quote from the Quad City Times questionnaire). He did qualify the "living" part and as this was prior to the recovery of his brother's remains I have no problem with that.

The question was not ambiguous, the answer is. The paper was accurate in their reporting.

[Melinda]

48. How can you now be glad to learn this, when you were positively gleeful

in the thread I linked to above? Your "personal favorite" - remember?

Sorry. I don't think your sincere at all.

[arewethereyet]

51. yes I am sincere heres why

I did not realize that it was POSSIBLE for a civilian to be POW/MIA. Believeing that Dr Dean was referring to his deceased brother as something he could not have been was far worse to me than what turns out to be the case.

Its bad that he did what he did but, owing to my own ignorance, its far less so than I had originally thought.

Here's the kicker, had I NOT discovered this distinction, I would not be able to vote Dean (a la ABB). It would be difficult now but not impossible.

Its a large distinction to me.

[Melinda]

53. Here's the kicker:

You assumed the worst instead of withholding judgement until you had examined all the evidence, weighed all the facts, and come to an informed conclusion. Instead, you chose to attack Dr. Dean's character and reputation during one of the most critical times in our nations history.

Why did you do that?

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. Congratulations to you as well Melinda

Earlier I congratulated Dean for responding the way he did to that paper. Now I have to congratulate you for doing such an excellent job defending Dean here. Very well done.

[Melinda]

57. Well thank you, Tom.

I'd do the same for any of our candidates (or anyone for that matter) if I knew facts were being distorted to smear their integrity and credibility. I'd like to think each of us would; I wish we all would....

You're another wise person in this often turbulent sea of a chat board, and I appreciate all your calming reason and effort toward our common goals as well. Many, many thanks to you too, Tom. :hi: