Who would be the best VP for Clark?

[Mattforclark]

If he wins the nomination (primarily from a strategic point of view)? .

The way I see it, there are several strategies that could be embraced in the choice of VP.

1) The Florida strategy - Bob Graham. He is experienced and would have an excellent chance of bringing Florida and its 27 electoral votes into the Democratic side. With that kind of cushion, we would still have a shot at winning even if something went wrong (IE losing a state or two like Pennsylvania, Iowa, or Wisconsin.) Graham also has good experience in the senate and is reasonably moderate enough not to scare off and very possibly help attract swing voters. But (AFAIK), a good portion of his experience is in the area of foreign policy, which is already Clark's strong point.

2) The Southern strategy - Mary Landrieu (or maybe someone else). Adding Landrieu would bring Louissiana significantly into play, and I think it would also help a bit with Arkansas. I don't think that Clark/Landrieu could win Alabama (for example), but it would force diversion of Bush's resources to defend the south. Landrieu is obviously female, which could conceivably hurt or help; she might balance out any image of Clark as too much of a 'macho man' (if that is a problem). Alternatively, if John Edwards were VP, NC would be brought into play, but unfortunately I don't think we would have as good a chance there as in Louissianna.

3) The Southwestern strategy - Bill Richardson. Richardson would help in NM, which is a vulnerable 'blue state.' He would also probably help with neighboring states Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado, as well as with the 'hispanic vote.' Richardson also has a lot of experience with government, and in Washington, which would be beneficial. In the next ten years or so, I think that this region is probably one that can be pulled safely into the 'solidly democratic' category, or at least into the 'leaning' category.

4) The Midwestern strategy - Gephardt, Bayh, or someone else. Gephardt could bring Missouri's 11 electoral votes into contention, as well as helping in states like Ohio, West Virginia, Iowa, and Wisconsin. He could help with the union vote, and he has years of experience inside Washington. Unlike some of the other candidates, I don't remember Gephardt attacking Clark, saying he is a Republican or anything like that. As an alternative, Bayh could create a scare in Indiana, and might help in Ohio (also 11 votes), but he has less experience than Gephardt and I am not sure he would help to the same degree in states like West Virginia and Wisconsin.

5) The Base strategy - Probably Dean. This might help 'fire up the base,' which could increase voter turnout. Dean would probably help bring New Hampshire into the dem column, and a win could be barely squeezed out if all the Gore states were held and we took (for example) New Hampshire and Arkansas. On the downside, the help this would give us might be concentrated more in solidly democratic states than in swing states. This would also be an outsider strategy, which could be both help and hurt at the same time. It would also presumably bring Trippi. ;)

So which strategy is the best?



IMHO, the Florida strategy seems to be pretty risky because it pins a lot of hopes on Florida. On the other hand, it would make a win possible even if we lost Pennsylvania. I also think that the Southern strategy suffers from a similar problem because it would pin a lot of hopes on a few southern states (Probably AR, LA), but it would probably divert Republican resources to defend 'base' states. The Southwestern strategy is probably also somewhat risky because it relies primarily on winning at least one or two other Southwestern states besides New Mexico (or else at least adding a state or two like WV or AR). The Midwestern strategy solidifies 3 Blue states that are in danger - Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa, as well as helping in Ohio and West Virginia. But on the other hand this might put as at more risk in other regions. I think the Base strategy is also pretty risky, because though it would probably help hold blue states, It is harder to add swing states, of which we need at least 1 big state or two small states.

I think it is a tough call, and I wish we could have a VP for all the strategies :). But on balance I think that the midwestern strategy is probably the safest, and the best from a strategic POV. So while I do not particularly like Gephardt, I think he might be the best VP pick for Clark. But I can see advantages in all of them.

[Democrats unite]

1. Bob Graham is my choice for Wesley Clark...

That would be Bush's worst nightmare come true.

[Mattforclark]

7. How sure do you think Graham would make Florida?

[Bombtrack]

18. surer than any other ticket

of course it's not "safe" but by making the GOP work hella-hard for keeping Florida(which they almost HAVE to) it frees us up for working at other states.

It also helps in states other than FLorida. Graham has plenty of other inoculators for CLarks potential "weaknesses", as few as they are.

[Democrats unite]

20. Well being a Floridian...

And Bob Graham being in Florida Politics most of his life (including being one of the most respected Govenors of out time here in Florida), I'd say pretty damn good!

[Kahuna]

58. Nobody's gonna win in FL but bush. The crooked bushies..

will see to that.

[GBD4]

63. definite

the guy's 5 for 5 in statewide races, carried 66 of 67 counties in his 1992 race, 63 counties in 1998

I'd say that's pretty solid!

[windansea]

2. midwestern sounds best

Clark needs someone who know the ins and outs of congress

[Bombtrack]

9. Gephardt would be an ok choice

I prefur Graham, because I think that while it's probably all over for repubs if we win florida, we could win Missouri and still lose.

If Gephardt doesn't get on the ticket he could be secretary of Labor or something

[salin]

44. Graham is better - has both executive experience, and legislative.

His principled and 'policy-wonk' ways make him a comfortable choice even for the more liberal within the party. Gephardt carries some baggage as being perceived as a not terribly effective leader going back to losing the House in 1994, and pushing congressional campaign strategies (focusing mostly on social security as a safe issue and soft-pedaling other issues) in 2002 that were not overly successful.

Because Clark is new to the party, and there is some skepticism/concern within the party - I think that the VP selection should both be someone who can help with the DC transition (eg has DC legislative experience), but that also is well respected by the more liberal part of the party - someone who can straddle and pull in various groups. For that reason alone, Bayh would not be a good fit. Most of his supporters in Indiana have noted his drift that moved from centrist to slightly right of center over the past two years. However his willingness to "take on" big backer Eli Lilly by voting against the Medicare prescription drug plan would make some folks who are prone to be leery of him a little more comfortable.

Since Clark is southern and covers that base, I would also look for a Midwesterner.

As strange as it might sound, someone like Senator Levin from Michigan might bring a number of positives. Good liberal credentials. Very well-liked in Michigan and the 'rust belt'. Very well respected as a policy wise Senator with a great deal of integrity.

The novel/fun choice (in terms of thinking about - but not really likely to happen) would be someone like Congressman Waxman.

All said, I think that Senator Bob Graham would be the best fit.

[webkev]

3. Edwards or Dean

[giantrobot_2000]

5. ...

Dean, Richardson, H. Clinton, in that order.

[meow mix]

10. edwards or CMB

id like to see either =)

[NV1962]

13. Hi webkev!

Good to see you here.

Yeah, I agree - Edwards or Dean, for electoral reasons.

But that doesn't mean I don't like the other suggestions... Not to mention Hillary Rodham, in preparation for her presidency starting in 2012.

:)

[MoonRiver]

50. I don't think either one will play second fiddle.

For that reason I believe Graham is the best choice. But my real favorite is Elliott Spitzer. However, after being beaten into submission, I know that idea won't fly.

[quinnox]

4. In this scenario, Gephardt is a very good choice

And the other one I would consider is Edwards.

This way Edwards would still only be 58 and could run for president after Clark's terms are over.

[Mattforclark]

11. Edwards age

Very true that he could then run for President. But that requires winning this time. Can he bring NC? To what extent would he help in other southern states?

[quinnox]

17. I don't know

But two southerner's on a ticket can't hurt, look what happened when Clinton/Gore did it, heh.

And Edwards would be a fresh face for vice president, and could be a more exciting figure than a Gephardt.

[Bombtrack]

21. Edwards could probably bring NC and GA by clarks reelection time

because both the atlanta and all of the NC metros are booming. And that kind of job growth tends to attract independants and moderates, and shake up local politics.

So after 4 years of an unscandalous dem administration, and getting rid of all the potential tainted computerized voting machines, then we can carry Edwards most closely identified with states (NC, VA, GA, TN)

[Bombtrack]

14. read my bob graham post below

Why not have former senator, attourney general, and vice president(ial candidate) running in 2012. In stead of just senator and vp?

Look at Edwards platform on his issues page and tell me he doesn't have the best ideas for justic/corporate/crime reform

[Bombtrack]

6. Definetly Bob Graham

the 3 southern states dems most have a chance at winning are FL, AR, and LA.

Also Clark, ideally would want someone from congress during 9-11, preferably with some leadership in congress, as well as someone who has governed a state or municipality of importance( IE big and complex), as well as someone's who's likable, won't outshine him, and can step aside for a new vp in 08, like Edwards, who could be the attourney general for the first 4 years of the clark administration

[Mattforclark]

16. To what extent is Florida a 'southern' state though?

And isn't Graham from Miami? Do you think he would really help that much in AR and LA?

[Bombtrack]

19. He would help as far as inoculating most of Clarks "weaknesses" go

he'd help clark everywhere.

But your right about one thing. It wouldn't be a ticket that's "too southern" and there wouldn't be a backlash because of that. Clark is a worldly man, and has lived everywhere. Graham aint from dixie.

On the other hand tickets like Kerry/Clark would be "too military" and tickets like Edwards/Roy Barnes would be "too southern" and it would be too obvious that dems are trying to make up for weaknesses

[GBD4]

67. farmer

the guy's a farmer. he has angus farms in Georgia, other agricultural properties in Florida. and he has a twang. North Floridians like him, and they're the real Southerners of Florida, so if they like him, I'm sure he'll be accepted throughout the South

[Auntie Bush]

Or possibly Bob Grahm could retire

in 2008 and then H. Clinton can run as Clark's VP.

[Padraig18]

8. Howard Dean, or Dick Durbin. n/t

[salin]

46. Durbin would be interesting

for reasons I posted above - I mentioned Sen. Levin - but I think that Durbin would fit the bill as well.

[Padraig18]

73. Durbin would be an excellent choice

Dick Durbin is intellectually gifted, a fantastic orator, has rock-solid liberal credentials, is 'Mr. Clean' personified (ethically) and absolutely despises Bush-Cheney. I would absolutely relish a Durbin-Cheney debate--- dick would carve him up like an Easter ham.

[BeyondGeography]

12. Gephardt

Brings out the union vote and brings Missouri with him, which would be huge (it'll be close, but Geppy should deliver).

Ideal point man for Wes on the Hill as well.

Good post, Matt.

[beyurslf]

15. Bill Richardson is about the

best pick I have for any of them.

Mary Landreua (sp?) is good too.

[windansea]

29. Ford too young for the rules

but would be a great pick

edit) oops sorry wrong position

[Deesh]

22. Harold Ford

How old do you have to be to be a Vice President? Harold Ford is younger than many people in Congress, but he is just outstanding. I think Cheney would have his hands full for the VP debate, too.

Also, how about Bill Moyers? A Johnson administration veteran, a PBS news analyst and writer -- and damned liberal. Imagine a debate with Cheney vs. Moyers.

And just to piss off 'W', how about Ann Richards of Texas?

[Bombtrack]

25. he's too young

you have to be 35 to run for vp.

We can help ford by getting Clark in the whitehouse, and having Clark help Ford beat Zach Wamp for senate in 06

[Deesh]

30. Ah yes.

Senator Ford sounds VERY good.

Thanks, Bombtrack for the update on the VP age limit.

[Kathleen04]

23. Edwards..

2) Southern strategy with John Edwards. 2 Southerners would put the south into play. Also, Edwards is youthful looking, energetic, and connects well with people--so I think he'd be an asset to the campaign anywhere, not just the South.


But, I'm also intrigued by the Midwestern strategy. I don't know much about Evan Bayh, but I'd like to see Indiana put into play. I don't know if that would pan out--since Indiana usually goes 'red'. I think Ohio is going to be very, very important.

I don't know about Gep..he wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if he were picked.

I think picking Bob Graham doesn't necessarily guarantee us Florida and I think it makes us weak by looking at the past too much. At least, that's the way the GOP would spin it. Let's do our best in Florida, but we have to make sure we have a strategy to win without it. I think our strategy should focus on a region, like the others you mentioned, and not just on a state.

[windansea]

32. Edwards would be good!

that duo would be sure to get the female voters exited

just kidding don't flame me

Edwards is a great choice!

[Kathleen04]

35. lol..

:)

[imhotep]

24. McCain or Powell

they all 3 share the same ideology.

[Bombtrack]

27. have you EVER looked at Clarks issues page?

or is he just lying about all that and he'll actually enstate a flat tax and eliminate the department of education and the EPA when he gets in there?

[salin]

48. lol... people do confuse "maverick" with being centrist/moderate leaning

liberal. McCain does have integrity and a fighting spirit, willing to take on his own party. But on most issues the man is a pretty conservative republican. I find it amusing how often this point is missed.

Added - reread where this started - saw it wasn't the common mistake... but an intentional suggestion. Makes my above statement rather irrelevant.

[imhotep]

52. yes

he is lying.

[salinen]

28. What about Mosely-Braun?

That could help both the female and African American vote.

[Deesh]

26. Has anyone here ever seen --

--Mary Landrieu and Mary Chapin Carpenter together? I think they might be the same person.

If Clark is the presidential nominee, how about former Congressman Lee Hamilton as his running mate?

Or Jim Jeffords?

[leyton]

72. Jim Jeffords...

Clark/Jeffords... two ex-Republicans? Sorry, but that's what it looks like. Not meant to be a swipe at Clark, but he did support the Bush administration early on, and of course Jeffords used to be a Republican.

[baggypants]

31. Edwards or Clark

You have to appeal to "the middle" in the general election.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

33. As someone who lives in the South

let me say I am sick of hearing the "Southern strategy". The idea that there must be one or two Southerners on the ticket for Southerners to vote Democratic is insulting, imho. For one thing, the South is now the home of many Yankees. In my county alone, I know of people from Illinois, Iowa, Rhode Island, and New York, and that's without thinking very hard. I know that there has also been a big influx of Californians in the county north of mine (I live in Arkansas, btw). Even the transplanted Texans I know who live around here are looking first at the platform and policies of the candidates and at their geographic location second. (BTW, those same Texans will assure you that Bush is a carpetbagger and an insult to their state).

That being said, please don't misconstrue my meaning. I am not dissing Clark or any of the other Southerners running for President. I think Clark should be on the ticket, but for his ideas and not where he is from. Personally, I feel he would be great as VP, but I'd be ok with him as Commander in Chief if Dean were VP.

[Bombtrack]

36. It's as insulting as history

the only way we get a landslide loser is when we run a northerner against a southernor or a California republican or a southern dem against a california republican(just once in 1980).

2000

1996

1992

1988

1984

1980

1976

1972

1968

1964

[windansea]

37. nice work BT

excellent

[meow mix]

42. california..

arnold.
this is not safe territory and if dean lost it here ill be totally un-suprised.

we need clark badly ;p

[Bombtrack]

43. exactly, We have about 50 SAFE electoral votes if he is the nominee

with probably either NY or California being up for grabs, whichever the GOP tries to persue harder

[oasis]

34. Edwards (n/t)

[Capn Sunshine]

38. probably Dean

the reverse seems obvious to many of us from the real world.

[windansea]

39. Dean world??

never been there...

[JPJones]

40. Gephardt

1) Understands Washington

2) Labor

3) Missouri

4) Domestic policy


Dean can be ambassador to France.

[windansea]

47. LOL n/t

[salin]

51. but the house was lost on his watch

he had no staying power in a 1988 primary run

his push for strategies for congressional races in 2002 were not terribly successful (hence much speculation as to that being the main reason he stepped down as minority leader when he did rather than wait til closer to campaign season

his appearance at the Rose Garden IWR speech of bush sabatoged democratic and bipartisan efforts pointed at putting some restrictions into the bill and was seen by many as an act that was harmful to other democrats

politically speaking, he brings some negatives along with the positives

[JVS]

64. It was more Clinton's watch than Gephardt's

Maybe if we had a Republican President at the time, Gephardt would have been responsible also whoever was the head of the Democrats in the Senate. However, when a party controls the White House the president becomes the public leader of the Party and placing the blame at Gephardts feet is incorrect in my opinion.

[shivaji]

41. Hillary, and if not available, Billy.

[chookie]

45. Bob Graham

Beyond the notion of strategy that you raised, which indeed is very important, he is one heck of a smart man who would have made an excellent President, let alone Vice President.

I cannot comprehend why his campaign did not take off, because he is way on top on what's important. Jeez -- don't people *listen* to what others say these days? Is it all about hair styles and height and "likeability"?

Former Floridian I am, currently living in exile in Pennsylvania.

BTW -- don't worry about Pennsylvania going for Bush this time. He's going to lose here bigger than he did in 2000. Recent elections have shown that Bush's coat tails have been poison to Republicans running for office in Pennsylvania. They were rejected by large margins. Pennsylvania seems to be way ahead of the curve when it comes to understanding what a cheating lying creep Bush is. I guess the history of exploitation and abuse by the powerful runs very deep in the hearts of people who live here -- we didn't risk our lives fighting for our rights to hand it over to a kill-happy bastard chimpanzee failure.

[Clark4VotingRights]

71. Graham would be a logical choice

We have to get Fla...

[liberalnurse]

49. I read Zell Miller will endorse

Clark. Is he looking to be a V.P option?

[salin]

53. I thought he already all but endorsed Bush. n/t

[Clark4VotingRights]

70. I find it impossible to believe that ZM will endorse a dem.

Zell make's The Simpson's Mr. Burns look like a saint.

[Donna Zen]

54. Purely pragmatic:

Gephardt: Region, organization in the region, labor, anti-Nafta, knowledge of the hill, knows healthcare

Edwards: Smart, knows hill, good on the stump, positive message with good ideas

Graham: Smart....I doubt we can carry Florida, not because we won't get the most votes, but because the state's voting system has gotten worse not better. That is not cynicism.

Richardson has said he is not interested. I honestly believe him because this is not a good political move for him at this time.

Yes, we might have to shore up California, no matter what.

What is good about running Clark, is that there are no holes in our weaknesses to fill in. We have many options from the blue states to chose from.

[salin]

55. shoring up california... for fun... how about Willie Brown?

imagine him going toe to toe with Cheney - or having the will to manhandle the GOP in congress.

[Kahuna]

56. Richardson, Graham, Edwards, Kerry..

in this order.

[salin]

57. Would reorder - Graham, Kerry, Edwards, Richardson

but would add someone like Levin or Durbin between Kerry and Edwards. But in my view - Graham's positives both in terms of campaining and in terms of actually being Vice President - is firmly at the top of the list.

[BobbyJay]

62. Mine - Graham, Richardson, Bayh

[SheilaT]

59. I don't understand this obsession

with a geographic "balance" on the ticket. In 2000 the Republicans had two Texans on the ticket and no one seemed to care. Of course, they lost, but who's counting?

[Bombtrack]

60. we only won, or came so close because probably, of the drunk driving

story. Cheney was the correct choice for Bush electorally.

Your veep reflects on the person on the top of ticket in 3 ways primarily

ideology
demography
geography

Cheney gave Bush gravitas, and helped inoculate his foriegn policy/ empty suit weaknesses to alot of voters. Most people weren't aware how right-wing Cheney was. But the republican base was. It gave Bush a better lock on the farmbelt and sagebrush regions, and the religious right/gun-nut demographics. Particularly in the Dakotas,Montana,Idaho,Wyoming,Utah,Nebraska,Kansas region where Cheney came from.

And Bush coming from Texas obviously helped him secure the south from the superstate of the south, working outwords from it.

The reason this strategy works for republicans but it wouldn't for democrats is that today there are about twice as many self-identified conservatitves as liberals.

It would almost not be possible for a typical liberal governor from say, Massachusetts(which represents the upper coasts region) with a vp like Chuck Schumer or Barbara Boxer as veep

[Ksec]

61. Since Ohio is so close and is up for grabs

Maybe an Ohio guy. Not sure who but since Ohio could upset the balance we need to focus on this state and elect a Vice that would be preferably an Ohio icon/

Or Graham to take Fla.

[Bombtrack]

65. There really isn't anybody. Possibly Marcy Kaptur

but she's a much lousier choice than Graham, because Kaptur has seniority in the hosue.

I wish Sherrod Brown had run for senate. His good coattails might have bleed into the pres race.

[IndianaGreen]

66. Landrieu and Bayh are anti-choice!

Bob Graham is good.

I think Clark should go West or East for the VP. We are voting for Prez, not VP, so as long as it is not a warmonger or an anti-choice running mate it is okay with me.

[nancyharris]

68. A good VP choice for any candidate

would be Brown University president Ruth Simmons.

[texasmom]

69. Graham or Durbin

They've got the legislative experience which balances Clark nicely, and they are idealogically in sync with him. They, also, each have geographical advantages.
I really like and admire both of them, but Graham would be my first pick.

[Killarney]

74. Dean/Graham/Edwards/Kerry

Any of those would make a fantastic ticket with Clark and really help to balance out his lack of experience in passing legislation. With Clark as President (Commander in Chief) and someone with legislation experience in the VP slot (President of the Senate)... we would be primed for a win. :)