How Hillary (and Bill) can win

[Voice for Peace]

Publicly recognize Obama is an outstanding candidate and the best hope for the Democrats (and the whole country) in a long time

Publicly acknowledge the importance of empowering the young in this process, and the wisdom of young people in choosing Obama as nominee

Graciously putting their voices and their power behind the candidacy of Obama, putting aside their own political ambitions

Contributing their energy, intelligence and ideas to an Obama administration

[Seeker30]

1. Yes, we all need to bow to the Obama god

Because you said so

[Voice for Peace]

2. LOL no, I didn't say that.. you said that.

I don't call Obama a god. I do think he is outstanding, and will be good for this country.

[Tellurian]

7. Hillarious! Obama seeking approval from Bill and Hill..

The Clintons are both uniquely qualified as scholars. Had Hillary not been in this race, I doubt either one would be supporting Obama's candidacy because he simply lacks enough experience. I think they would have supported Biden or Edwards.

[Voice for Peace]

8. Obama isn't seeking their approval.. that's just silly.

He's as or more experienced than Bill was when elected. He too is a scholar and uniquely qualified.

Wouldn't it be better for the Clintons to be contributing rather than making an effort to shred and destroy? It's hard for me to understand why this isn't obvious to everyone.

[Tellurian]

15. Obama has never practiced what he preaches..

The Clintons are producers. Obama has never produced anything but hot air and promises. Whatsmore, the world is not like it was when Clinton was elected, time was on his side. With the advent of the internet time is instantaneous the world over. Decisive decisions, for the good of the people by the next governing president, in an instantaneous world are key to improving the quality of our lives. A wrong or hastily made poorly informed decision could not only be a costly mistake but be devastating to the country as well. We live in a much more complex volatile cultural environment than we did 8 yrs ago. The Clintons have never let their learning process lapse. Obama's learning process hasn't even begun yet.

[Voice for Peace]

16. Please read this article

He's been producing for a long time.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/

[Tellurian]

19. I did read it..

It's an article based on potential. Obama hasn't done anything to prove that article has merit.

[Voice for Peace]

22. hmmm.... maybe you didn't read it carefully enough

or read with cynical goggles.

But I don't want to argue with you, there's no point.
If you aren't open to the possibility of him being good for this country
then there's not much I can say to persuade you.

[Tellurian]

25. Yes, I did my homework last year after he announced..

and there is nothing he can say or do to convince me otherwise. His history (what we know of it) is the best predictor of the future Obama proposes for us and my conclusion is this..

Obama is not up for the task. I would go as far as saying, he should seriously think about making a career change. Obama excels as an inspirational preacher and adept at holding revival meetups. He is more in the vein of Billy Graham than a US president.

[Voice for Peace]

29. LOL. ok, you win.

[Beacool]

34. Please stop drinking the Kool-Aid!!!!!!

Obama has more experience than Bill Clinton when he was elected president????????

Obama was one of hundreds of state senators that we have in the country, that's the minor leagues!!!!

Bill Clinton had served as governor of Arkansas for 12 years in 1992 and was the country's senior governor at the time.

Can't you tell the difference between an executive position and the state senate?????

:rofl:

[quantass]

3. k&R

[durrrty libby]

4. All Hail to The Great Bamboozler.

[Tellurian]

9. That is a label the Clintons should hang around Obama's neck..

"Obama, the Great Bamboozler" A vote for the "Bamboozler" is an okeedoke vote giving us "NO Chance" at all!

[Voice for Peace]

10. No, you are mistaken.

This is an excellent article posted by someone in another thread, I
hope you can take time to read it.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/

[Tellurian]

13. Not at all.. Obama failed miserably as a community organizer.

Obama let his constituency freeze during a Chicago winter. Obama was a community organizer in name only. He gave them HOPE with the same inspirational speeches he uses on the stump. All Obama's constituency got for his efforts of HOPE, was the reality of living in blighted areas in his district.

[Voice for Peace]

17. Ah, I see there is no persuading you.

:)

[durrrty libby]

14. You've been Hoodwinked just like the rest of the his robe-kissing followers

[Voice for Peace]

18. Not hoodwinked. Impressed, informed.

[Tellurian]

20. Impressed with personality or looks will do nothing to put food on your table.

[Voice for Peace]

24. LOL true!

But.. honestly I am not impressed with his personality or his looks.

I'm impressed with his campaign, and his vision, his ability to motivate and inspire; I'm impressed with his judgement and with his perspectives on many issues.

[Tellurian]

30. That is just the point..

Obama doesn't HAVE a vision. All he does is tell people whats wrong with the country and getting them to agree with him..But he never offers working solutions that will fix whats wrong with the country or what he will do specifically
by outlining a plan for our review in writing detailing how he intends going about getting it successfully done.

Obama outlined his Health Care Plan as a Universal Plan covering everyone. When experts reviewed Obama's Health Care Plan plan he leaves millions uninsured and his plan is far from universal. Probably why he doesn't have his plans for the future out there in writing. Obama's plans under review by experts would be subject to criticism and he fears too much criticism will hurt his chances for election.

[Voice for Peace]

31. OK -- there is no point in debating this because we see these issues differently

I just want to add that I appreciate the civil discussion & may the best candidate win, for the good of all.

[Tellurian]

36. Thank You.. and I appreciate your civility as well.

[Beacool]

38. You're wrong he does have a VISION

The same vision he's had since he got into the state senate and made a point of avoiding the difficult votes so as not to make too many enemies (some of his colleagues used to joke that Obama was always in the bathroom whenever a tough vote came up). The same vision that he carried to the US senate.

His vision: to be president of the USA.

This is not about us the people, this all about Obama and his huge ego. Someone with a modicum of humility would have decided to wait and build up a resume before he would consider running for the highest office in the land after barely dropping his bags in the senate and finding the location of the men's bathroom.

:eyes:

[Voice for Peace]

5. They have lost so much in this primary process. They've lost long-time supporters

and lost the respect of many colleagues & Democrats, lost the support of much of the African American community, lost their positive legacy. It's a shame and I think it's reversible. When I suggest they step aside I am thinking not only of Obama but of their own legacy in American politics. Retain some dignity before it's too late.

[0007]

6. Still lots of love up the old whazoo for the masters of the house

legacy in American politics? That's in the old whazoo too!

Help!!

[elixir]

11. Why should the Clintons and their supporters (including young Clinton supporters)

acknowledge the importance of empowering the young in this process and their wisdom? Is there some reason why my thoughts and wisdom don't count in this race? Is there a reason why the thoughts and wisdom of Hillary Clinton don't count in this race?

Here's an opportunity for the young to participate and acknowledge that the world, including our nation, is made of all kinds of people - young, old, men, women and all different colors. It's called a global view, not only the young. The young will be respected, including my daughter who supports Hillary, along with everyone else.

I guess you'll have to work a little harder.

[Voice for Peace]

12. You are right, I don't disagree

(especially the suggestion I could be working harder).

I don't mean to diminish Clinton supporters. But what I have seen, and it seems to keep getting worse, is that the way Sen.Clinton is conducting her campaign is demeaning to herself and her supporters,having a negative impact in terms of the way she is viewed by many who once respected her.

I do think Obama is a superior leader, in the sense of vision and ability to fight for what is right without creating more division and animosity in the process; and in his ability to mobilize, energize more people to be invoved (see http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/) .

I think he is gifted in that regard, in a way she is not. I am also not gifted in that way, I am not putting her down by saying so. I just think he has a gift, and that this country can benefit enormously.

[Tellurian]

21. That is the reason "Apprenticeships" exist..

It's been that way since the beginning of time. Why do you need to go to college when you've graduated from High School? Why do you need to go to High School when you graduated from Elementary School?

Because you can only learn so much within a period of time until you mature into the intelligence you've been exposed to over time which helps develop "wisdom" from years of experience attained by trial and error.

What was the average age of the Founding Fathers? I don't think there were any in the 20+ something yr olds in that bracket. Sure they listened to what peoples wants and needs were and they crafted a templete that would stand the test of time as a moral and humanitarian compass for generators to come.

[Voice for Peace]

23. But not all experience translates into wisdom.

Look at the apprenticeships & experience of the people in the current
administration.

And I haven't been persuaded that HIllary Clinton has attained wisdom,
with all due respect to her experience, intelligence and many good ideas.

[Tellurian]

27. The current administration is the perfect example of a perverse, corrupt government..

There are always two sides of a situation.. There are good cops that do their jobs with respect to their position of power and use that power to help people in distress and enforce the law . There are cops who take advantage of their power and use it for their own personal gain and abuse their power against people. This is the case of current administration. They have perverted a system that was designed around people to help and protect them and not for the personal gain of politicians. The Bush administration has undone any good the government was intended for and weighted it in favor of their own personal gain.

[Voice for Peace]

26. this is a really interesting question, I'd like to know the answer

"What was the average age of the Founding Fathers? I don't think there were any in the 20+ something yr olds in that bracket. "

I do know that many of the first settlers to come from Europe to America were in their teens and early 20's. That took some judgement, some fortitude, and a willingness to commit to something new. Some fearlessness, courage.

[Tellurian]

28. Oh, boy..

The first settlers traveled here as families. I'm sure there were teens on their own due to the death of a parent or guardian. (Read David Copperfield's life during his apprenticship) More than likely, they were taken in by friends of deceased parents and raised as their own. No one is disputing the fortitude of teens.. just that they don't have the experience or wisdom to govern a nation until they can prove their worth with a list of credible accomplishments demonstrating their leadership ability and ability to govern a nation of people.

[Voice for Peace]

32. But many of the families were very young families. Back in those days many were

married with children before they reached their 20's.

[Tellurian]

35. How does a teenager have a teenager for a child?

[Voice for Peace]

39. ?? Don't understand the point of your question. But some of the founding fathers were

quite a bit younger than Obama.. I just did some quick research. Jefferson was 33 when he drafted the Declaration of independence. Alexander Hamilton became first Sec.of Treasury in early 30's. James Madison was around 37 when Constitution was written.

And Lafayette, whose statue is prominent across from the WH, was in his early 20's when he made an impact on US history (he was married at 17)

If I've got these facts wrong, mea culpa.. it was hasty googling.

[Tellurian]

41. All the FF you mentioned..

were educated and ate, drank and slept politics. They were all actively involved in politics and were very opinionated in their beliefs..They crafted plans for the future in writing.. EX..Dec of Indy... Oh, and all were extremely qualified for their postion as signers.

http://www.americanrevolution.com/FoundingFathers.htm

[Voice for Peace]

44. thanks for the link

I do think Obama's experience for the past 20 years is extensive, relevant
for the presidency, good for what the country needs right now.
I know we disagree on this point.

Being a Constitutional lawyer is not insignificant, in my view, nor is his
community activism. These are in the forefront of his awareness as a
politician, and that is important to me personally. I think it bodes well
for a presidency.

I don't see him as being dishonest or overly ambitious. I see integrity & purpose,
good judgement, a serious commitment to issues that matter to me. I'm in
strong agreement with his vision of diplomacy, and confident in his abilities
in that regard.

But neither of us really knows for certain, one way or the other. I guess
we'll see what happens.

[Beacool]

33. Why should they??????

When are you Obama fans going to get it that it's not JUST about Hillary? To many of us Obama is not prepared to be president at this point in time. We think that Hillary is the better candidate, it's not about egos or such other nonsense.

Let me put it this way, even if Hillary came out tomorrow and said that she was dropping out, I still wouldn't think that Obama is fit for the job.

[Johnny__Motown]

37. Majority rules, Obama is our nominee.... you are in the minority. sucks to be you

is this why you think he isn't fit for the job?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=related


Just more Clinton lies.

Put down the Kool-aid and open up the blinds, let the light in and relax. Obama is gonna be a great President.

[Beacool]

40. The only people drinking the Kool-Aid are the Obama fans.

Keep repeating to yourselves that this all about us the people and not about him and don't get hurt when you fall to earth once he can't fulfill even half of the crap he spews: Hope, change, bla, bla, bla.......

Too many words, too little action.

[Voice for Peace]

42. Are you opposed to hope and change?

Or is it just that you think he will be unable to accomplish anything if elected?

My opinion: that will be up to us, you and me.

I don't see him making promises that he can't fulfill if people become much more active overall.

If Hillary offers you hope and change, that's a good thing!
We have a different perspective about who will be more effective. Neither will be perfect.

May the candidate who will be best for this country win the nomination.

[Beacool]

43. I'm opposed to slick operators.

Flim-flam artists and anybody who spews drivel such as this: "We are the ones we have been waiting for"........

Oh, the sheer arrogance of this guy and the idiotic way in which his supporters react to him!!! The man excused himself recently to blow his nose and his fans clapped wildly. Geez, I don't want to know what they would have done if he had passed gas!!

[Voice for Peace]

45. To me, that's not drivel. That's a hopeful statement.

We wait for somebody else to fix everything, to bring peace, to
heal the country, to change the world. But we ARE the ones
we're waiting for.