My sister, an Obama supporter, called me this a.m. upset about what Hillary is trying to do to Obama

[Catherine Vincent]

Because Obama is leading, Hillary is trying to go back and include Florida and Michigan to catch up to Obama. She was really upset. I don't know what media she's been listening to. I had to calm her down and explain to her that Obama is in the lead but not by that much of a wide margin. I told her to be patient everything will work out. Now she is really hating on Hillary because she thinks she wants to "steal" it from Obama. My sister is sounding like some of you Obamabots here. :eyes:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Reading about all the shaking and crying that goes on, the term "conversion reaction" comes to mind

[candice]

13. Obama supporters are told to talk about how they "came to Obama"

...and to avoid policy...(from the New York Times article about how some candidates are being sold as messiahs).

[stillcool]

20. I am an Obama supporter..

would you like to know how I "came to Obama"? Or would you like to talk about "policy"? Seeing how they are intertwined why don't we talk about both? Or..why don't we talk about neither, and just keep throwing labels, and smears around. It works so well, doesn't it?

[Exilednight]

26. "I came to Obama" because of his policy. Kind of blows the article out of the water.

[democrattotheend]

28. Volunteers on most campaigns are usually told to avoid policy

Because we are not experts on policy and may not know all the details of all of his policy proposals. For example, when I made phone calls I got a question about immigration that I wasn't comfortable answering, because I did not know all the details and I knew that my own views were way to the left of Obama on that issue.

Obama's web-based calling tool actually encourages us to read up on his policy proposals before calling, which is rare. Most campaigns I have worked on have instructed volunteers to refer policy questions to the campaign office.

[EmilyAnne]

31. That's bullshit.

[movonne]

32. That's the first time I have heard that one...

[Texas Hill Country]

34. his staff was told not to talk policy, but how they came to believe in Obama... FACT.

add to that Oprah talking about "The One", etc etc...


Yeah, totally.

[Adelante]

35. Nobody told me that nt

[RoadRage]

62. I came to Obama because i was SHOVED there by the

complete filth that has become the Clinton campaign. Policy ironically does play secondary to the tactics, because in my opinion, the policies of both administrations are very similar.

The differences, are the Iraq war - and that is a BIG difference IMO.

But, my real reason for embracing Obama has little to do with his skin color, background, or even speachmaking abilities. It has to do with the fact that he has integrity and doesn't partake in the political games that the Clinton administration survives by.

[flpoljunkie]

58. Perhaps her sister is reading reports like this...

In Private Pep-Talk To Top Donors, Hillary Predicts: "We're Gonna Win This"

By Greg Sargent - March 12, 2008, 6:18PM

In a private meeting in D.C. with her top fundraisers from all over the country today, Hillary gave a rousing pep-talk in which she flatly predicted, "we're gonna win this," according to a fundraiser who was present.

In a series of closed-door meetings in Washington today, fundraisers were given extensive presentations from top Hillary advisers and surrogates about strategy and about what needs to be done to win over super-delegates should she fail to close the pledged delegate gap, the fundraiser says.

The fundraiser adds that there were expressions of frustration with DNC chair Howard Dean for not doing enough to resolve the Florida and Michigan situations.

I reported below that the Hillary campaign summoned its top fundraisers for an all-day affair in D.C. today. The fundraiser who was present gave me a rough run-down on some of what transpired.

Fundraisers were given a presentation on Florida by Senator Bill Nelson, and one on Michigan by Senator Debbie Stabenow, and senior Hillary adviser Harold Ickes walked listeners through the challenges ahead. The presentations had a tone of optimism tempered by realism, the fundraiser said, adding that Ickes didn't try to persuade his listeners that she would be able to catch up with Obama in pledged delegates.

Rather, the clear message emerging from the presentations was that Hillary's success depends on the campaign's ability to persuade the super-delegates that they should be considering three "data points," as this fundraiser puts it, in considering whom to back: The pledged delegate count, the popular vote, and the specific states won by each candidate.

more...

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/in_private_peptalk_to_top_dono.php

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Was your sister also upset at Ferraro's racist comments?

I sure hope so.

[OhioBlue]

3. Maybe you should listen to your sister

instead of thinking that you are superior and rolling your eyes at her.

[Avalux]

4. Your sister is a wise woman. She is spot on with her assessment.

Look around - everyone can see what Hillary is trying to do. She is incapable of following the rules.

[Dawgs]

5. Actually it is a very wide margin. This race is over.

[Heidi]

6. You're lucky. I have a Repub sister who regularly beseiges me with emails detailing

how we bleeding heart liberals are ripping the Christian heart from our nation, promoting all sorts of "immoral" lifestyles and contributing not only to the downfall of the US "peacekeeping mission" in Iraq but to the downfall of the US constitution and, with it, the downfall of the US as a whole.

I'm glad I'm not an alarmist; otherwise, I might really be upset about what other people -- even those I love -- believe. :hi:

[Catherine Vincent]

37. Oh wow. I am lucky. :)

[Umbram]

7. Golly gee. Wonder why your sister would think that?

:yoiks:

[JackORoses]

8. actually, Obama leads by an insurmountable margin.

So what you told your sister was not true.

Did you mention that Hillary would have to win with over 60% in all remaining contests including MI and FL, just to catch up with Obama?

Your sister sounds like a smart lady, she must have got the brains in the family.

[SoFlaJet]

12. that's right Jack

there are 10 contests left and Clinton will have to blow Obama out by a margin 3 points more than he won last night in Mississippi-just to catch Obama (64% each remaining contest) and that ain't happening unless you live in J-Lake-ville

[XemaSab]

18. I stopped for gas in Jlakeville once

Man, now I'm even scared to even drive by there on the freeway. :scared:

/kidding :P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

47. The attendant told me my car didn't count.

:P

[jlake]

68. y'all will see. The Goddess of Peace will reign supreme!

[Tarc]

21. Typical jackass response from the typical O-Bot

Clinton would easily hit 60% in a Florida and Michigan revote, that nets her around 140 delegates right there, and more than enough to have her come within 30-40 of Obama going into the convention. Which, for all intents and purposes, would be a tie.

[JackORoses]

25. Clinton couldn't even get 60% in New York. She didn't get 60% in Michigan with no opponent.

She didn't get 60% in Florida when noone was allowed to campaign.
The only states she has done so in are Arkansas and Oklahoma. Not exactly bellweathers.

You are seriously deluded.
Care to try again?

[democrattotheend]

29. She didn't hit 60% against uncommitted in Michigan

Why would she do better against Obama than she did against Kucinich, Dodd, Gravel and uncommitted?

[Yurovsky]

52. Game, set, and match ...

classic!

[scheming daemons]

48. 60% of MI and FL does not NET her 140 delegates... not even close....

It nets her about 35 to 40.


They aren't winner-take-all.



Also.... she couldn't even reach 60% when the only other candidate was Kucinich in Michigan.

[blogslut]

9. I think you should listen to your sister

:)

[candice]

10. Obama thinks we'll be "frightened" by looking at a photo of him in traditional garb...

...in a costume that wouldn't be scary on Halloween. I laughed when I saw him wearing it. Cute, not scary.

But there he was telling people in Mississippi that Hillary's campaign was behind have this photo shown and she was frightening people with it!

As Maggie Williams, Clinton's campaign manager (and a black woman) put it, everyone knows that politicians wear native costumes when they visit abroad. (The Clinton campaigned denied having anything to do with the silly photo.)

I just found out that Obama is 47 years old. I thought he was much younger, as young as one can be and still run for the office. He had better develop some spine if he plans to take on a Republican in the General Election. Whining won't work.

[cali]

19. Bwahahaha. Hilly has been a monumental whiner and screamer

for that matter. Look at her absurd overreaction to the healthcare pamphlets sent out by the O campaign. She comes on TV, practically shaking and wagging her finger, screaming "shame on you, Barack Obama". And then look at her pathetic whining about how she always gets picked on by being asked the first question in debates. She whines about caucuses not being fair. She whines about not having as much money. She whines about everything under the sun, and Obama's been gentle with poor pitiful hilly.

As for the "costume" thing, only idiots or disingenuous partisans spew the line you're using. People have been trying to paint Obama as a "stealth" Muslim. And if you can't see why a picture of a black politician in African/Muslim garb is different than a white politician in the eyes of too many xenophobes and yahoos, you're blind.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. And around here I've had very rational people say they were worried

about Obama, because of him being Muslim and all.

Clinton did it - played into peoples' fears - and it works. As far as I know.

[Dhalgren]

39. "Very rational people"? Really? You think that some one who thinks

Obama is a Muslim is "rational"? I had a couple of 20 year olds who are friends of my daughter's ask me about Obama being a Muslim and his refusing to take the Pledge and those other silly things. One of them had gotten an email from a right-wing nut-job. I quickly and thoroughly dispelled all of these lies. I told them the truth and gave them the urls for where they could get the truth. When they left they knew that Obama was a fine, upstanding American Democratic politician - that he was a lifelong Christian and that he took his oath of office on a BIBLE. But these kids (I hate to say) are pretty ignorant (not my daughter, thank the gods). I have yet to see any evidence that these smears are coming from the Clinton camp. They look to be coming from the same people who hate Clinton, too...

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. Yes. They've been lied to, and believed the lies.

And it doesn't help when 'anonymous' sources claiming to be Clinton staffers put out the turban pic, and Hillary does NOT immediately and unequivocably deny that her campaign was the source. I understand, maybe she was afraid it really did come from a staffer, so her denying it would make her look like a liar, but that could be easily dealt with by nothing more complicated than saying "I did not authorize any such leak to Drudge, and if it is found that it did originate from my staff, that staffer will be fired." That would have ended the whole thing, weeks ago.

But she didn't do that. And I have to wonder why.

Did she think that keeping the story alive would help perpetuate the "Muslim Obama" myth? Is it possible? Of course, should she deny it she would be telling the truth. As far as I know.

[Dhalgren]

51. I love it when people add that little "as far as I know" to their

statements. Not only is it a jab at Clinton, it is also a true statement, whenever it is used and whomever it is used by. It is always a true statement...

:rofl:

[democrattotheend]

30. I thought he was 46

Where did you hear 47?

[donheld]

11. Sounds like you have an intellegent sister

let her help you.

[LisaM]

14. Where does your sister live?

Just curious. I said long before they even held their primaries, that they needed to find a way to count Michigan and Florida (I thought they should have been moved up over smaller states, because I think smaller states have had a disproportionate voice in choosing nominees). Just where is she that she's so upset that Michigan and Florida might get a voice after all?

[karynnj]

15. Not that wide? using realclear politics' numbers, he has 13% more than she has

In pledged deligates, He has 1403, she has 1240 - that is 163 more. With only 10 contests to go. As you've seen, MS split 61% to 38% and the delegates split 19 to 14. This shows what HRC is up against.

Your sister is right - it is you who are in the HRC denial club.

[mtnsnake]

16. Just try to make sure your sister doesn't see this site

because if she comes to this cesspool she might actually believe some of the thousands of lies about Hillary and then she might start calling you in the middle of the night, all upset even more.

[stahbrett]

17. Is IS by a wide margin, considering how delegates are allocated proportionally

Think of a marathon (~26 miles)... I'm at mile 21, and you're at mile 16. So I've been going faster than you overall, and have a 5 mile lead. Out of 26 miles, it's not that big of a lead. However, going forward, even if you start moving 50% faster than me, you would not catch me in time - I'd cross the finish line before you'd catch me.

If she has a huge, blowout win in PA (let's give her 65%-35% win, twice as large as her "huge win" in OH), she'd only make up about a 1/3rd of the pledged delegate deficit that she currently has.

[Catherine Vincent]

41. But something could hapen to you that would prevent you from making it to the finish line.

You never know.

[stahbrett]

42. That is true in EVERY primary election - the pros and cons, and the odds, all need to be weighed

First, if Hillary was running a completely positive campaign at this point, with little to no negative attacks on Obama, then it wouldn't be a big deal. But she is attacking him, implying he's not ready to answer the phone, etc. Assuming for a moment that he is not prevented from getting to the finish line, that type of campaigning only hurts Obama's chances against McCain. That is why many of us think that Hillary's goal is to hang around "just in case", weaken Obama as much as she can, and then if she doesn't get the nomination, she'll be able to run again in 4 years rather than 8 years.

[scheming daemons]

49. Which is why she should "suspend" her campaign... and be the "fallback option" if something happens

....and quit tearing the party apart.

[AZBlue]

22. Obamabots? Wow, how open-minded of you.

[bowens43]

23. Hillary IS trying to steal it.

No rational person could believe otherwise. Your sister has it right.

[Texas Hill Country]

36. NO, she is trying to get everyone's vote counted... it a friggin DEMOCRACY, not a game.

[Clovis Sangrail]

45. it IS like a game in that there are rules

I can't scribble my vote on the wall and say it counts.
There are very clear rules about what I need to do in order to make my vote count.
I have to show up to a specific place, between specific hours, on a specific day.

Just as there are very clear rules for individual voters, there are very clear rules for state democratic primaries.
Fl and Mi chose to ignore those rules, despite being repeatedly reminded about them.

So, thanks to their elected officials, votes cast on 1/29 in Fl and 1/15 in Mi don't count anymore than the ones scribbled on my wall.

... and if they get their votes counted I want somebody to come tally my wall as well :D

[Apollo11]

53. And the rules say that all 796 superdelegates can vote for who they want.

So Senators Kerry and Kennedy can vote for Obama, even though Hillary won the Massachusetts primary.

So it's nonsense to pretend that the superdelegates will all have to vote for the candidate who has the most pledged delegates at the Convention.

[Clovis Sangrail]

60. I agree

I think the supers should vote for the candidate that got the most pledged delegates but there is no rule that they have to (and I expect some will not vote that way).

This just illustrates how stupid the implementation of superdelegates is.

[Apollo11]

63. So it's also OK for me to say it is stupid

to punish the grassroots Democrats who took part in the Florida and Michigan primaries, because of decisions that were made by the political elites - in Florida's case by a REPUBLICAN Governor.

The DNC should find a way to honor those results or hold new primaries in those States.

[Clovis Sangrail]

64. the difference is following the rules

if you don't like them, work to change them.

I think the way we do superdelegates is stupid.
I don't expect it to change in the middle of an ongoing primary; I accept that those are the rules we have to work within right now.

I also accept the rules that govern how and where I, or any group of people, can legitimately vote in the primary.

Fl and Mi, after repeated warnings, ignored those rules. The ramifications were such that not everybody's name was on the ballot on Mi, nobody campaigned in either, and a good chunk of people didn't vote at all.
So aside from breaking the rules, neither primary that was held is even a valid representation of voter intent.

I think doing them over in a way that doesn't violate the rules is the best solution.
It's not fair to me, as somebody from another state that did follow the rules, for the primaries they had to count.
I think *my state is more important than either of those 2 and we should have moved our primary up as well.... but we followed the rules that were set.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. "...Obama is in the lead but not by that much of a wide margin."

Therefore, to eliminate that lead Hillary has to claim the votes from two invalid elections. Without them, she CANNOT win.

Sounds to me like your sister gets it.

[RunningFromCongress]

33. What would a wide margin be to you? By your standard Hillary will never have a wide lead

[Clovis Sangrail]

38. Obama leads by 161 pledged delegates...

that's a pretty wide margin

neither of them is going to get to the magic 2025 without superdelegates
if Hillary picks up every single delegate left she will still need 185 superdelegates
if Obama picks up every single delegate left he will still need 45 superdelegates

It's extremely unlikely that the remaining votes will go entirely to either candidate.
Just to pull even with Obama, Hillary will need to win the rest of the contests 61% / 39% or better.
http://www.slate.com/features/delegatecounter/

[Yes We Did]

40. She sounds like a very intelligent girl. You should learn from her.

[Bread and Circus]

44. Just insult and belittle her. Tell her she's a cultist and not thinking clearly.

Suggest that she just needs to "open her eyes".

That will do her some good.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. I don't talk to my sister that way.

That kind of talk is only reserved for you guys. :P

[Bread and Circus]

50. :)

:)

[Straight Shooter]

54. I guess she's worried that Obama will be leaving the building, eh?

Rock star syndrome :D

[TexasLady]

59. Hey! Minus the goofy hairstyle, that's a cool pic!

:P

[Straight Shooter]

67. That goofy hairstyle will be back in style one day. Let's go retro!

:hi:

[Hepburn]

55. I am glad your parents had at least one intelligent child....

...congratulations on your great sister who supports Obama!

[mtnsnake]

56. What an incredibly ignorant thing for you to say, but so typical of you

so no one should be surprised.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

57. Yet there's no problem with the insulting tone of the OP toward Obama supporters

How typical of you.

[rucky]

61. Maybe the suspicion is over the top, but the sentiment of mistrust is real.

And Hillary's not doing much to inspire trust from the base right now.

[barack the house]

65. Erm, I think the chances of it are less likely now but most candidates look at the math and say

fari enough you win. HRC staying in does look like HRC is up to something.

[DemVet]

66. Geez, do we need another thread about what someone's Dad or sister thinks?

"I talked to my Dad..."

"My sister thinks..."

"My next door neighbor..."

We've all seen threads start out like this.

They are all BS.

C'mon people, have the courage to start out a thread the way it REALLY is: "I think...."

I think most people don't give a hoot in hell what your cousin or Uncle Billy Bob thinks. Quit "hiding" behind them.

They might, however, care what you think.