Clinton Hopes to Overturn the Election Through Superdelegates

[Stephanie]

Does she think she can convince these electeds to hitch their wagons to a broken campaign?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/13/AR2008031303648.html?hpid=topnews

Clinton Opens Her Home to Woo Unaligned Lawmakers

By Shailagh Murray and Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, March 14, 2008; Page A08

Having mastered the art of town-hall meetings on the campaign trail, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is now holding them in a more comfortable setting: her living room.

On Wednesday night, the Democratic presidential candidate held a private reception for several dozen members of Congress at her house on Whitehaven Street in Kalorama. Most of the guests were confirmed supporters, many from New York and Arkansas, making it something of a friends-and-family event.

But the real mission of the evening was to court lawmakers -- who are also superdelegates in the party's nominating process -- especially those from some of the biggest states. And at least one, Rep. Jason Altmire (Pa.), used the session to pose the kinds of questions voters usually aim at him rather than treating it as a polite political cocktail party.

Officially undecided on which candidate to back, Altmire said he asked Clinton what she expects superdelegates to do if Sen. Barack Obama winds up winning the popular vote and more state delegates. As of last night, Obama had 1,602 overall delegates to Clinton's 1,497, according to an Associated Press tally. A total of 2,025 delegates are needed to secure the nomination.

Clinton replied that superdelegates exist for a reason and should use their own judgment about which candidate would be best in the general election. But Altmire said he is not so sure.

[Drachasor]

1. Off-topic, but why is it so hard to take a decent picture of Hillary?

This is ridiculous. Is she just not photogenic most of the time?

[ingac70]

10. For her to look good...

photos need LOTS of enhancing.

[buff2]

19. Obama only needs ONE picture

He looks the same no matter what......just plain fucking U G L Y! And his phony lying ass makes him even U G L Y E R. :puke:

[JTFrog]

20. Gotta love kindergarten humor. They'll teach you to spell later. n/t

[my3boyz]

26. hahahahaha nt

[Window]

27. LMAO! You Hilly supporters are funny as hell.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[tigervalentine]

30. Does your mother know you've broken into her computer

and that you're playing with democraticunderground?

[MonkeyFunk]

28. Nice right-wing site

you got that graphic from.

http://www.danzfamily.com/

The front page is a memorial to William F Buckley.

[ingac70]

52. It's still unenhanced pics of Hillary...

If I was her I wouldn't allow my pic to be taken.

[anigbrowl]

62. She looks a bit like Ellen Degeneres actually

It's an interesting question. I don't find her that photogenic, but on the other hand, I judge men and women by different standards which isn't that fair either. I think hen it gets down to it Hillary Clinton has a 'cute' rather than a 'pretty' face.

Try not to read that the wrong way. I see no point in posting 4 paragraphs explaining what I think the distinction is and what sort of face I prefer and why.

[anamandujano]

2. I just hope she's not threatening to fund a challenger to their seats

if they don't vote for her, like Obama is doing.

[Submariner]

7. like Obama is doing

Link?

[JanusAscending]

8. Care to back that statement up with something?

Anything?? I guess all of Hillary's supporters are taking their instructions from the campaign. If you lie often enough, and enough people hear you, they will begin to believe it, unless you ask them to back it up with something like,...........oh say, THE TRUTH ??? I hope and pray that all of her deceite, and nasty ass campaigning, comes back to bite her in her ass! Karma's a bitch they say!!! So put up, or SHUT UP !:nuke:

[anamandujano]

11. Here ya go.

JIM LEHRER: But as a practical matter, based on what happened yesterday, winning three out of four and where the delegate count rests right now, do you think she still has a really good -- there's a real good possibility she could win the nomination, Senator?

BILL BRADLEY: No, I really don't...

JIM LEHRER: You don't?

BILL BRADLEY: ... because, mathematically, even if she won 60 percent of the rest of the races, she'd still be behind in pledged delegates. And that would mean that the super-delegates would end up making the decision.

And I think increasingly super-delegates are going to go with Barack Obama, particularly in districts that he won substantially.

I don't think you're going to find congressmen, even congresspeople that are behind Hillary early, go against their district, because if they go against their district, they're going to find that they could very well have a primary challenge the next time.

--------snip

JIM LEHRER: All right, let's go through the super-delegate thing. Beginning with you again, picking up with you, Senator Bradley, how do you feel about the super-delegates? Should they play a key role, if it's necessary, in order to throw this thing one way or another finally?

BILL BRADLEY: Well, if it goes as far as the convention, they are clearly going to play an important role. And the point I was making is that basically they're going to make a political decision.

And the political decision is going to be a combination of what is best for the country and the party and what is best for their own political circumstance.

And it's not in Massachusetts. I assume that if somebody was a strong Clinton person, they could challenge Ted Kennedy in the primary. I don't think they would win, but they could.

There are plenty of people who supported Barack Obama and in districts across this country, not in Massachusetts, but across this country, and not just African-American districts, that went overwhelmingly for Barack Obama.

I think certainly a congressional candidate has got to think twice about an Obama campaign challenged in the next election from people who are not novices. They know how to organize. And so I think this will factor in to the kind of decisions that are made by super-delegates.

JIM LEHRER: And you think it's perfectly legitimate for the super-delegates to play this kind of role?

BILL BRADLEY: Absolutely. There are no rules with super-delegates. They're not pledged. All of them could shift at the last moment.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june08/demdiscuss_03-05.html

[JanusAscending]

13. There is nothing in this article that says Obama is "doing this"

I believe it is Bill Bradley speaking as Obamas surrogate. Much better than some of Hillary's, wouldn't ya say???

[anamandujano]

16. It's been documented that the black supers have been threatened

with challenges. Some have been harassed. Has Obama done anything to stop it? Did he do anything to stop death threats against Tavis Smiley? He has a record of letting things like this drift and then stepping in with a benevolent word after it's all worked to his benefit.

I'm sure John Lewis was threatened in some way also. At the time the Obama campaign was taking the stance that supers should follow the pledged delegates. Then oops, Hillary won Massachusetts and created a hypocrisy problem for Kerry and Kennedy.

There is no will of the people yet to overturn, no matter how forcefully you try put that argument forward. I do think it's rather humorous that the Obama campaign has to keep redefining what the "will of the people" is, so that it fits with them winning.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. This is nonsense

This broken-record repetition by certain DU posters of supposed "threats" always ends up pointing to news links that merely report 2nd and 3rd-hand hearsay about such and essentially resulting in no production of proof.

Does this mean that constituents or fellow officer-holders aren't arguing or debating with supers regarding which way the super might vote? Of course not.

But Bradley describes a realistic scenario where should a congressional district (or other constituency) overwhelmingly vote for one candidate and the elected super chooses another, then that super IS subject to a review by their constituents. In essence, just because a super defies the people's will doesn't mean they must be booted out. But it also means that the RISK exists that they might be. Kerry and Kennedy have that risk just as Fast Eddie Rendell and Mixmaster Mike have that risk here in PA in the opposite sense. It's all up to the mood of the people in that constituency and whether they feel it has some rank of importance to their lives.

[WonderGrunion]

25. I like the strong arming

It shows how tough a fighter Obama will be in the general election.

Isn't that the same thing the Hillbots say about Hillary's dirty tricks?

Oh, and BTW :sarcasm:

[reflection]

31. I can't imagine

John Lewis being swayed by a political "threat". He's proven he's made of stronger stuff than that. More than likely he had a shift in conscience once Obama was gaining traction, plus he was able to square it with the votes in his district.

[rodeodance]

34. we do know Black superdels have been harassed

[BumRushDaShow]

39. By who?

Their constituents?

[rodeodance]

40. BO surrogates---you missed all the threads on DU a few weeks ago.

[karynnj]

66. Your time line is off

Kerry endorsed a few days after NH. Kennedy, 2 days after SC. Both well before SuperTuesday, which HRC expected to win. The idea that superdelegates could give it to the loser of the pledged count surfaced after the Obama wins in LA, NE, and Washington state. It became much louder after the Potomac primaries.

Kerry gave what he termed his personal opinion in one of the first articles - which was that he thought it would be a disaster to overturn the pledged leader - whichever way it was. that was his opinion in early February and I have yet to see him say anything else.

[karynnj]

64. Also the example he used was Kennedy

He was not saying Obama was doing it - but making the point that there would be some political risk going against an overwhelming vote in their district. This is not saying there is some coordinated effort, but that a person supporting the district's choice could challenge using that as the reason. He used Kennedy to say that in that case, the challenger would likely lose (obviously because the vote for Obama would not be enough to make them want to throw him out - Kennedy, by the way, is not up for re-election.)

Bradley is a very very good guy.

[ingac70]

14. Quote from Obama please...

Not some pundit spouting shite. If districts get PO'd with a candidate it doesn't mean Obama has that intention.

[quantass]

3. At least she knows she can't win this race and thinking to go another route.

[JTFrog]

21. Then she obviously needs a GPS system to show her the way home. She's been stuck in the mud

for a while now.

[Koeln]

24. question

i aksed this question several days ago but got no real answer.

I am from germany and try to understand the voting system and the chances for each candidate.

From all i have read i can not see how clinton should win this or better how she could win this without a huge demage for the democratic party and the chances against mc cain.

With not many states left it is more than just likely that obama gets more delegates than clinton here and she needs the super delegates to have a chance. What picture would it sent to the public if they elect a candidate in such a way?

Looking at all these articles here in my opinion it is time to find a solution before ethe next primaries. You really hurt your chances and the only winner in my opinion is the republican party. For somebody from abroad this is really strange and given the fact that it seems to be a good tradition in the US to leave the race when the chances are limited i would think that it is time to think about the party and the real election and not to go on and fight each other.

Where i come from the chances would even now be limited after such a battle and so much chances for the other site to use this during the campaign.

[Stephanie]

29. What is the question?

If you are asking why Hillary Clinton doesn't drop out of the race for the good of the party, that's what we're all asking. I guess the answer is unbelievable self-centeredness and a conviction that there are enough avenues available for cheating (reinstating FL & MI, strong-arming super delegates) that she might pull it off regardless of the will of the voters.

[meow mix]

4. and kill the party for the next 10-15 years.

shes pathetic and a disaster. shes got to go when this is done.

[anonymous171]

5. Why have primaries then? Just have the SDs choose from the start.

[greyghost]

17. Because this is a representative republic, not a democracy.

[high density]

32. Yeah I'm so glad the Supreme Court overrode the voters in FL and gave us Bush in 2000

You must be happy with that decision if you want or expect the super delegates to act like the Supreme Court of our primary season.

[wileedog]

61. Who exactly do Superdelegates represent?

I didn't elect any

[CoffeeCat]

6. The Supers will not...

...usurp the will of the people, no matter how much Hillary begs and pleads from her living room.

There's nothing like thwarting democracy with a big ol' psycho grin on your face.

[aquarius dawning]

9. She's actually trying to overturn the will of around half the people.

The half supporting Obama.

[anamandujano]

12. The other half voted for her. As you should know, in any contest of

this sort, there can be only one winner.

Obama is courting (well, arm twisting) them also. Check my post on Bill Thugley above.

[karynnj]

67. but her "half" is smaller - or she has LESS than half

[rodeodance]

36. As is BO----that is why it is called the primary season.

[Scurrilous]

15. Ain't going to happen.

Obama Cuts Into Clinton's Delegate Lead Among Elected Officials

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0OkW8Ml8ljw&refer=home

[greyghost]

18. New England was going to win the SB too.

[high density]

33. Well a year ago Clinton was winning this thing by 30 points.

Apply your own standards to Clinton and Obama becomes the Giants.

[greyghost]

43. She may win by 3. It ain't over til it's over, as Yogi said.

[high density]

45. You mean it ain't over until your candidate finds some way to win without the pledged delegates? NM

[greyghost]

46. All she has to do is win within the rules. I'm an Edwards supporter

myself and if John were this close, no way would I want him to quit.

[high density]

48. It's only close because the MSM says it is close

The math is stacked very much against her, unless everybody accepts the idea that the super delegates (which are mostly spineless politicians that want to be reelected to their own positions) are going to override the voters.

[greyghost]

49. The MSM has given Obama a completely free ride. I wish they would

have treated Edwards that well. Obama isn't close to the magic number either. As for the SD's, flip a coin, it depends on the overall picture when it gets to them.

[Alter Ego]

51. Why you gotta be hatin like that

:(

[TomClash]

23. Kalorama? Chappaqua? Must be nice nt

[rodeodance]

35. Why is this such a surprize to you?

[Stephanie]

38. It'z not a surpize to ME, it'z eckzackly whut I eckzpected frum her.

Lie, cheat and steal to win, that's your girl.

[rodeodance]

41. Its BO who will do anything to win--including racializing this campaign.

It'z not a surpize to ME, it'z eckzackly whut I eckzpected frum her.
Posted by Stephanie


Lie, cheat and steal to win, that's your girl.

[From The Left]

37. And Democrats Will Simply Stay Home in November

Hillary Clinton will NEVER be president.

[greyghost]

47. Dream on. That ranks right up there with NE going 19-0. LOL

[snooper2]

42. Whatever it takes, hell or high water...

She wants it now and she wants it bad....

[rodeodance]

44. Yup that is BO--he will do anything to win.

[Alter Ego]

50. This is in no way shady and suspicious

and there is absolutely no story here.





















:sarcasm:

[jenmito]

53. kick...

She's playing old-school politics, trying to overturn the results of the will of the people which will NOT be on her side.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. They Both Have To Woo The SD's. Neither Can Win Without Them. Brush Up On The Process Please. n/t

[jenmito]

55. Do you think Obama has them over for wooing cocktail parties? Do you think he'd want

them to overturn the will of the people?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. Your Will Of The People Argument Is Thoughless Bunk. It Just Is.

It's a parroted meme thrown out by those who truly don't understand the process and want to use this mindless talking point incessantly, in an attempt to act like they have a real argument. But they don't.

If this was all about the will of the people, caucuses wouldn't exist. If it was truly about the will of the people, it would all be done on the same day. The will of the people argument is one that those who know better, simply wouldn't use.

Furthermore, the will of the people have shown that BOTH candidates are worthy of the nomination, or one of them would've been able to receive enough pledges to win outright. The people weed out the weaker candidates and choose that which they feel is the strongest to run in the GE. Usually, that leaves us with one. In this case, it left us with two. You can't have a race this tight and a situation where NO ONE can win without the SD's, and claim the will of the people is firm for one candidate. The public has decided that they are both worthy.

To be dead honest with you, whenever I see someone use the will of the people argument, I automatically deem them to be closed minded or ignorant to the reality of the process. They'd have to be one or the other.

[jenmito]

57. Awwwww. So you, like Hillary, are in denial that she's going to lose the nomination because

she has fewer delegates, less of the popular vote, and fewer states won under her belt. I hope you BOTH wake up to reality before driving yourselves crazy. :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

58. Wrong. I'm Even On Them Both. But Feel Free To Continue With Your Ignorance While Ignoring The

facts put before you.

God you're so silly in how you try and deflect away from legitimate argument with your simple minded "we're winning hillbot!" childish approach. Nice try though! :hi:

[jenmito]

59. First, I NEVER used the term "hillbot." Second, I'm not simple minded. I'm giving you the facts.

Obama has more pledged delegates, TOTAL delegates, more states, and more of the popular vote than Hillary. You call it "simple minded." I call it FACTUAL. And I said the superdelegates won't overturn the will of the people. AND THEY WON'T, despite Hillary's last-ditch effort to "woo" them. :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

60. God It's Like Talking To A Wall. I Already Addressed Your Bunk Will Of The People Argument.

Instead of addressing it, you responded instead with childish crap, that might've well had boiled down to "We're winning hillbot!", regardless of your specifically using those terms or not. Now, you just repeat both your previous replies, while still ignoring the fact that I already addressed it.

There is no will of the people at this point. Using that argument shows a closed mind or someone completely ignorant of the process. But I guess if you can't grasp it, you can't grasp it.

[jenmito]

63. Walls don't have brains. I do. And I use it to TRY to tell people like you that

Obama is winning in EVERY way, and there's NO way superdelegates will overturn ALL of that. You don't like the term "will of the people"? OK, he has everything ELSE the person who should get the superdelegates to put him over the top needs. It's not tied. Obama is winning. Any way you slice it. Like it or not.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. With This Whole Pastorgate Thing, Don't Think The SD's Ain't Paying Attention.

Not sure how this will play out yet, but it could literally sink ALL of that.

[jenmito]

69. As could the just-revealed fact that Hillary was NOT responsible for S-CHIP like she claims she was

in her stump speech. And lets see how they feel when Hillary refuses to release her past tax returns and other documents.

[jillan]

65. I hate to tell you, but this is well within DNC rules.

[metalluk]

70. I thought

I thought that the superdelegates were a part of the selection process. Thanks for setting me straight. Perhaps you could explain why the superdelegates were created.