think the Boston convention is 1 more reason to nominat a nonNewenglander

[Bombtrack]

a much smaller reason not to than overall of it being our safest region. (along w/ west coast + midatlantic)

thoughts?

[DemDogs]

1. Our New England candidates will not win South or rural midwest

But the convention is not the reason. Maybe it highlights the problem, though.

[Bombtrack]

3. right, thats what i think

we need to reach out.

[mouse7]

16. Yep, more of that regionalism junk n/t

[Clark4VotingRights]

45. Heck, even Lyndon Johnson recognized the need for a Dem southern

strategy. And we can't win without it.
Clark has it.

[Demeter]

42. It Used to Be that Region Meant Something

For example: Florida used to be the backwater for an unreconstructed South. But then people from Michigan and New York and Cuba started moving in. Florida isn't what it was.

Ditto for Alabama, Arizona, New Mexico, even Texas. The country divides on class much more than on region. It is because all classes save those who never need worry where their next meal is coming from are hurting that this nation will wake up, pay attention, and show the Bush regime the door with a boot up their party. The GOP has undermined its own base. And all the money in the world (unless it's being handed out to the base) is not going to fix that. I don't see that happening ever with the Bush bunch.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

2. Is this another Southern Strategy BS Thread?

I haven't chosen my candidate yet, but the mantra of a New Englander can't win is becoming tiresome...

:eyes:

[Monte Carlo]

4. I resent that we are seen a 'liability'.

In these campaigns. We're Americans, just like any other.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

6. I Hate to See Dems Repeat a Repuke Talking Point

and this geographic rift BS is just one of them.

[Bombtrack]

9. no, it's political SCIENCE

http://www.massinc.org/commonwealth/new_map_exclusive/ten_regions_index.html

The 10 Regions of US Politics

[mouse7]

19. Political Science? What 's that?

Nobody at DU never heard o' no Political Science! You must be a genius or something. you're so much smarter than all of us. Please give us all detailed instructions in what to do next. Everyone at DU is clearly clueless.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

20. That's One THEORY, Professor

and there are theories and realities.

[Bombtrack]

8. Kerry's a VERY close third choice of mine

behind the 2 southerners

he would have the uncommon ability of a Mass dem to win states like FL and AZ

[Bombtrack]

5. no

a good western or midwestern candidate would be great

but gephardt, kucinich, and braun aren't great general election candidates

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. I could give two shits where the nominee is from

and I think most Americans feel the same way. Why do you buy into the regional bashing BS?

[GBD4]

10. well

this would be the only argument I can think of:

Southerners tend to be more suspicious of the federal government, so if a favorite son - "one of their own" - is running the executive branch, it gives them some more confidence and trust

look, FDR did phenomenally well, his best state in all four elections was . . .

SOUTH CAROLINA!

so there's no hard evidence of regional biases

[Bombtrack]

15. that was when the south was democrat-dominant

http://www.massinc.org/commonwealth/new_map_exclusive/ten_regions_index.html
read that page

[GBD4]

30. excellent!

awesome link, Bombtrack, thanks!

[Bombtrack]

13. I'm from Boston

I'm not bashing anyones region

But I do have study this stuff to earn my degree

[BobbyJay]

18. I'm a polysci major too

My friend from Arkansas hates Dean and would probably not vote if he were the nominee. He would vote for Clark though.


Location does make a difference. The populace at large isn't as informed or educated or interested in the intricacies of politics as most here. Keep a level head.

[jonnyblitz]

49. yeah one person's opinion defines the whole region.

how scientific...geesh. And i wonder who it is YOU support. If your one friend in Arkansas supported Dean I am sure you wouldn't even bring it up.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

22. I have a Masters in the "Stuff"

and I'm just saying you have to take this study with a grain of salt. Some of this study wrings true but the basic premise is flawed.

[mouse7]

17. Yeah!

You tell 'em.

[mermaid]

25. If So, The Here's My $.02 Worth

Screw the South. We can win without a bunch of redneck yahoos.
Amnd very carefully note...I AM A SOUTHERNER SAYING THIS!!!

Here's a very plausible scenario for a Dem victory, without the South.

AZ CA CT DC DE HI IL MA MD MI MN NH NJ NM NV NY OR PA RI VT WA WI WV

Final Tally: 272 Electoral votes...Goodbye, whistle-Ass!!

You'll notice I did not even give FL to iur guy in the above scenario.

Now, if we could get OH and/or FL...damn, we got a lock winning MOST of the states I mentioned above. we need to pour money into getting OH and FL.

Screw the South. We don't need 'em! Why waste a bunch of good campaign money trying to win hearts and minds that will not be changed?

The four G's of government to a Southerner:
Guns, Gays, God, Government Reugulation (as in less of...read: less civil rights for minorities, less regulation on people-screwing businesses...)

Whisper any four of these to the average Southerner and watch his reaction. You'll get the same reaction as you would whispering "jihad" in the ear of an al-Queda member! He will, quite literally, go nuts!

Well, the Repukes whisper these things in the ears of the south constantly. They do it in code. The code is "family values" the code is "Christian morals." Ther=se are the code-words the Repukes have used in the South for years. The South is pretty much brainwashed and brain-dead, once you drag these issues out in front of them.

Sorry, but it's the truth!

Perhaps you are familiar with the epic of Cinderella...if the shoe fits, wear it!

Now, I am a Southerner saying this stuff. I can say it because I see it all around me.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

27. My comments weren't anti-Southern

they were I'm sick of New England being dissed

[maxanne]

43. no kidding, Rose

I think New England oughta secede from the union. Think of the possibilities - we'd own the market on REAL lobsters and maple syrup.

We'd also eliminate southern politicians and religious nuts (ie. Robertson, Falwell) from our lives. This is something to seriously consider.

Since anyone away from the south is doomed, perhaps we should all just vote for someone from Texas. :eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

51. I've thought a little about this...

New England + New York + Atlantic Provinces would be an interesting little country.

I've read that, if Quebec seceded from Canada, some people in the Atlantic Provinces would be interested in joining the U.S. I don't see it happening, but who knows.

[tedoll78]

33. I am a Southerner..

and I FULLY AGREE.

Go after Ohio, West Virginia, Arizona, New Hampshire, and Nevada. Those, plus fighting for Gore's states, gives us a really nice chance.

And we don't have to fully cede the South. We need to trick Bush's team into spending time and money there:
- "leak" fake polling data showing the race in certain states too close to call.
- have the VP nominee spend significant time (1/3 of her/his time) in a few southern states.
- have available video footage of volunteers/workers allegedly "swarming" the state.
- advertise nominally on TV. And when asked why there isn't more TV advertising, say that the money has been budgeted into GOTV operations instead.

If we can plant that seed of doubt into the Bush team's mind, they will take no risks on Florida, Arkansas, etc.

So yes.. as a Southerner, I saw screw the South. If people down here want to vote like retards, let them.

[Dookus]

11. My biggest complaint about the convention location...

is that it's cowardly. We should've picked Miami and made it the Every Vote Must Count convention.

[BobbyJay]

14. Yes, I wanted it in FL

I think Tampa Bay was on the radar.

[BobbyJay]

12. Clark + Boston Convention just feels right

And I like Dean and Clark.

I just think we have a better chance with Clark.

[LuminousX]

21. Are we to be held hostage by the South constantly?

Will we ever be able to have a Northeastern, or, oh my god, a Westerner as President?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

23. I hear ya-it's getting old.

[JohnKleeb]

24. southerner agrees

:shrug: Personally I prefer the yank and midwestern candiates the most.

[Brian_Expat]

26. If someone's dumb enough to vote against someone based on his region. . .

. . . then he deserves Dubya and everything Dubya brings (economic ruin, war, huge deficits, etc.)

[Clark4VotingRights]

28. A New Englander has little chance in the critical South

GENE LYONS: "I think that in practical terms Clark puts several Southern states back in play. Right now, Bush would be very hard-put to win any of the states that Gore won in the last election. So if you can take away from Bush, or at least strongly compete in Arkansas, West Virginia, Kentucky, possibly Georgia, Florida, with all of its military people, you all of a sudden take from Bush this air of invincibility and fundamentally change the electoral map. When you look at it like that you have to ask, how in the world is Bush going to win this election? Where are his electoral votes going to come from?

BUZZFLASH: There's this perception among progressives and Democrats that because the Bush administration is so right wing, and effectively all three branches of government are in the control of the Republican Party, that we're underdogs. But people forget that Gore won the election by a half-million votes...As you've pointed out, if the Democratic candidate wins every state that Gore won, all the Democrats have to do is just pick off one more, whether it's Arkansas or West Virginia, and the Democrats take the White House.

GENE LYONS: Well, I've been reminding people of that all along. But I also think Clark does more than that. My subjective view was that culturally there was no way that Dean, for example, could win in the South -- he would be a complete non-starter. Dean has a terrific line about this. He says he'd tell the pickup driving set (a group that would include me, for what it's worth) that they've been voting Republican for 30 years, and ask them "What have you got to show for it?" Great line, but would they ever hear it at all coming from a Vermont Yankee? I've got my doubts. And that would allow the Republicans to spend a lot more money in places like Missouri and Pennsylvania and Michigan that are states that are very competitive. And it would make it extremely difficult for Dean to win in that he'd have to run the table in all the other states and pick up one more state somewhere.
...
I think Clark would bring back a lot of military people. I think there's great disquiet among people of the old-fashioned style of patriotism right now, and it's looking for a place to go. And I think there's a very good chance it would go to Clark. I think that he would have a strong chance to unite that which has been divided."

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/10/int03221.html

The beauty of Clark's Southern strategy.

[Brian_Expat]

31. Heh

He says he'd tell the pickup driving set (a group that would include me, for what it's worth) that they've been voting Republican for 30 years, and ask them "What have you got to show for it?" Great line, but would they ever hear it at all coming from a Vermont Yankee? I've got my doubts.

Then they're stupid and deserve Bush. I don't believe in "saving people from themselves."

[Clark4VotingRights]

32. So you've written off the entire South?

Interesting strategy.
And how does one win the presidency by writing off the Southern
vote? Or as Dean tastefully refers to them, the guys with
"Confederate flags."

[Deesh]

29. At the Boston convention --

-- I'd love to hear our Democrats summon us from the podium to conscionable action against the current King George. A really substantive oratory from that podium, plus a history-making internet campaign strategy, should de-regionalize some voting biases.

I would love it if we were at our best in Boston and if the convention oratory was powerful enough to sway independent voters to our side this time.

That's why the Democratic candidate must fight for the South. Not in expectation of carrying Mississippi or Alabama, but because a fiery and determined appearance in Montgomery or Jackson persuades independents in Wisconsin (>1%) and other razor-thin blue states to go for the Democrats.

[hellhathnofury]

34. I agree that Boston is a poor choice electorally.

But it really does not relate to who the nominee is at all because at that point it doesn't make any sense.

The smart move would have been the Midwest(Cleveland, St. Louis, Minneapolis).

The South is a near lost cause right now. Junior knows it's solid. That doesn't mean we give up on it though, we fake efforts as a poster above noted.

It's Ohio this time around. That's 20 electoral votes and his support there is a mile wide and 3 inches deep.

I'd much rather make a play for the farm belt than the South.

[tedoll78]

35. Faking effort in the South..

.. is probably the smartest thing we can do there.

Imagine all of the money that Gore had spent in Florida going to Ohio, where he lost by a mere 4% - and that was with him giving-up on the state a whole month before Election Day. He pulled all ads in the first week of October and still did quite well there.

Imagine transferring all of the resources that Gore put into Florida into Ohio. All of those GOTV people. Ohio has enough urban areas for us to boost turnout in them and carry the state. We just need to put real effort into it this time around.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

Totally Agree with You About OH

Lots of Electoral votes there.

I don't think we should write off the South yet, though.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

36. Totally Agree with You About OH

Lots of Electoral votes there.

I don't think we should write off the South yet, though.

[Hep]

37. How do I say this

People don't care about what you think they care about.

[CMT]

38. not really

While I didn't favor Boston--I would have much preferred somewhere in Florida or even New York City. Boston is entitled. They are a strong Democratic city which has never held a Democratic convention. When was the last time New England hosted a convention? never--I believe.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. Never is right

and it is where the Revolution began. Hopefully, our Dems can start a revolution of their own.

I personally can't wait for the convention. And I'm happy the Repuke one is less than 200 miles away so I can go and protest!

[JohnKleeb]

40. It was done for symbolism right

I am trying to persuade my parents to let me go up there.

[CMT]

48. maybe that will be the theme of the convention?

The revolution to bring the government back to the people. The 2nd American Revoltuion.

[meow mix]

41. "along w/ west coast"

consider it safe at your own peril! ----> arnold <----

the newenglander may very well lose california, and the pugs will love that. ;p

[Padraig18]

44. Huh?

I don't even see a line of logic here, bombtrack. :wtf: does Boston have to do with the price of beans in Belfast? :eyes:

[JVS]

47. The idea is that areas loyal to the Party should be ignored in favor of...

areas where the party is doing poorly

[Padraig18]

52. In that case, might I suggest St. Louis or Kansas City.

We could actually win MO, IMO.

[JVS]

46. It could helpt to pick up NH in the general

[Bombtrack]

50. Which is the smallest swingstate there is. 4 votes.

It should therefor be the last priority in terms of swingstates, not the first.

And I don't think there is anything to show that a New Englander would have an easier time winning NH than a Clark or an Edwards. Dukakis lost it my like 20 points(off top of head, someone check)

And Gore, a Tennesseean only lost it because of Nader. You can bet that probably at least 4 out of 5 nader voters are ABB this time around

And forcing the GOP to work hard to keep southern states, which I believe the New Englanders running this time can't(other than Kerry and FL), automatically thins out there resources in places like NH, where they otherwise would be thicker if not for a south-competative nominee