There have been several posts noting that Obama's numbers have slipped among whites . . .

[EffieBlack]

suggesting that the fact that Obama is less popular with some whites is somehow proof that HE did something wrong.

Yet, during the South Carolina primary, when Hillary Clinton lost support among blacks, some of these same people never considered this was proof that Clinton had done anything wrong, but instead insisted that this was evidence that black voters were "playing the race card," or were engaging in "bloc voting," or were voting for Obama because he was black and against Hillary because she is white.

Interesting double standard among some DUers, I must say.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NDambi]

9. "Minorities should take this time to re-examine"

Yep. Excellent post.

[chimpymustgo]

18. And do what - vote Rethuglican? Somebody needs to do some re-examining, but not necessarily

MINORITIES. Sheesh.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

32. the Dem party is a coalition and as far as people of color, you speak ONLY FOR YOUR SORRY SELF.

[NDambi]

49. You talkin' to me? lol lmao

[Drachasor]

50. Not vote, more likely

[C_U_L8R]

12. Very well said Bahala. Thank you !

I'm just way too angry at Hillary and her followers.
I believe that was their intention.

[EffieBlack]

19. At least the Democratic Party HAS minorities to fight about

The Republicans not only don't bother reaching out to minorities at all, they have so few minorities interested in voting for them that no one even bothers to poll on the issue on the Republican side.

Which is pretty interesting since, while the Democrats are being egged on by the media to fight over race and gender issues, McCain and his crowd are getting a completely free ride. While the press obsesses over why only 30% of black voters are voting for Hillary Clinton, no one has bothered to ask the Republicans why NO blacks want to vote for them.

The double standard is amazing and the fact that Republicans aren't being called on their complete hostility toward minorities is inexplicable.

[Drachasor]

51. Saying we are better than the Republicans is setting the bar very low

We can do a hell of a lot better than that.

[EffieBlack]

56. You've missed my point completely . . . n/t

The point is not that we are doing better than Republicans - although we are - but that the media has spent so much time focusing on our inter-party squabbles over race that they completely ignore the fact that the reason that the Republicans don't have any internal strife over race is that they long ago threw minorities under the bus, so race is not an issue on their side. THAT is much more damning than whether Hillary Clinton is going to get more than 25% of the black vote or whether Barack Obama is going to capture a majority of the white vote.

[Drachasor]

58. They've shown themselves capable of getting decent amounts of the hispanic vote

(Though the "hispanic vote" is a bit of a misnomer).

And just because the Democratic Party doesn't act as atrocious as the Republicans, doesn't mean we shouldn't do a lot better. We've had a lot of stupid behavior regarding race from within our party.

[shugah]

21. i wish i could rec your post

i would posit, however, that obama has not "let people of color down" - i think their resounding support in the voting shows that they too understand how every body has to walk on freaking eggshells so as not to offend the sensitive white democrats.

i wish there was enough time left in this primary race to really have a dialog about race and racism in this country. my conclusion from reading DU (which i once considered a progressive site) after the wright revelations is that no one, white people least of all, wants to have any kind of honest exchange about it.

we are all the poorer for it.

[Bahala]

26. Thanks - Compare John Kerry and Catholicism

The Pope, of course, advocates many views that many democrats disagree with such as the stance on abortion. Yet, no one seriously called upon John Kerry to renounce his religion or leave the Catholic church. I think most white Americans readily accept that John Kerry may have differing views from the Pope despite Kerry being a Catholic. However, despite Obama's rejections of Wright's comments, many white Democratic voters are all too willing to assume that Obama views are inseparable from those of the head of his church. There is a double standard that I wish Obama would aggressively point out, However, failing to point out this double standard allows it to fester to the detriment of all people of color who are tying to overcome such stereotypes.

[shugah]

41. there is a real catch-22 for obama

i am looking forward to his speech tomorrow. i think he will maintain his momentum.

[KittyWampus]

30. who the fuck would want a second coming of Jesse Jackson. And Obama isn't running as a black

candidate. Although from your few sorry posts on DU, you sure seem to want that.

You don't even know how to spell Obama's freaking name.

Keep trying.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Although there may be a germ of truth in what you write, most of it is garbage

Calling Obama a Tomobama ain't funny either, and shows that although you talk a good game, you are exactly what you spoke of in your little sermon.

And as a Black Person, Obama has not let me down, so speak for yourself, and yourself only.

What I hate more than anything is when some Henry Doorknob who joined DU just yesterday attempts to say he/she speaks me, and then name calls like he/she owns the place.

You are not going to hoodwink me....

Maybe you are the one that hasn't advanced since Willie Horton. Maybe you should think about that.

[Drachasor]

53. I think Obama would have let me down if he wasn't making his speech today

That person was on the mark on some areas though, particularly Clinton's campaign, imho.

[EFerrari]

60. Obama does a good job of saying what people can hear

and pushing them a little more. There's no use making statements that people can't take in. At that point, you're just talking to yourself and to people who agree with you which may feel good but is useless.

[Bahala]

2. Delete Double Post (nm)

nm

[BuyingThyme]

3. Maybe the whites are just getting all down on the men.

[Bonobo]

4. yes. nt. k/r

[billbuckhead]

5. Reverend Wright now give whites an excuse not to vote for Hillary's opponent

Now you'll see bloc voting by whites.

[Mooney]

6. White power! n/t

[EffieBlack]

7. Whites don't need an excuse to vote against a black candidate

White voters have ALWAYS voted in blocs against black candidates and never needed an excuse in the past.

Rev. Wright is irrelevant - any white voter who would vote against Obama because of something his pastor said was probably not going to vote for him anyway.

[GhostofSandpiper]

24. Bingo! White voters have never needed an excuse

To not support black candidates. Their blackness has always been reason enough.



Rev. Wright just makes for a handy smokescreen for a bigotry that has always existed.

[tammywammy]

8. Um, wow

:wow:

[Thurston Howell III]

11. self delete.

[baldguy]

13. Then the smear succeeded.

Is this really how we want to choose our leaders?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

34. you are so oblivious to political reality it's pathetic. You have a Dean logo and

yet you want Obama to attack this aggressively.

LOL!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. For The Record, It is You Thinking In Black And White Terms.

No pun intended by that. But you're putting forth a concept as if each circumstance warrants the exact same perception and result, as if each incident isn't its own with its very own set of circumstances, nuances, unique factors, and specific details. With all due respect, it is always an ignorant exercise to try and dictate that the end result of one should equal the end result of the other, when in reality they are completely separate and unique circumstances.

So regardless of context, just the inherent logic itself within your OP fails on its face.

[frazzled]

14. Mission Accomplished

Hasn't the strategy from the beginning (well, from the beginning of his electoral successes in the primaries) been to paint him as the "black" candidate? When that wasn't enough, he had to become the "scary black candidate"--not the reasonable, "articulate," half-white, professorial guy who wasn't like "those" Negroes, but the ragin', white-hating, Black Power, not-quite-an-American black candidate. The scary guy with radical ideas and Afro-Centric delusions of grandeur.

Even though Obama has been highly scrutinized for more than 12 years by all the media in Illinois, and has never said or done anything to merit such a characterization, a few minutes of someone else's speech was enough to paint him with the Scary Negro brush.

Amazing. And so many here buy it.

[EffieBlack]

16. Bingo!

But I don't think the Mission has been Accomplished. Obama is calling it out.

[C_U_L8R]

17. Bingo Bingo !

[Cha]

23. Aren't the "so many here"...

over-imbibing koolaid drinkers that manufactured this in the first place?

[Frank Booth]

28. What's so ridiculous is that Hillary's shooting herself in the foot.

Even if her strategy of racializing the electorate works to get her the nomination, it will backfire in the general election. She'll lose the swing voters in the general election.

NO Democrat benefits from tense racial relations. That a Democratic campaign would be built on stirring up racial resentment is beyond ridiculous.

[Kaylee]

39. Spot on.

[Eurobabe]

55. those that buy that BS on here

are probably RushBOTS or Freepers. I have watched the video by Wright, and there are two sides to every story. Some of what he says is probably true and part of what he says may be false. But to say that Obama is "like" him because he sat in that Church (guilt by association) is a load of horse pockey. Does everyone believe every word they hear in Church? I doubt it.

Those who live in glass houses should get dressed in the basement. That's for the shills pushing this meme.

Just my 2 euro cents. :shrug:

[EffieBlack]

57. You're right. There's no problem sitting in church even if the pastor occasionally says something

you don't agree with.

As long as the pastor doesn't say anything that might make white people uncomfortable. If he does that, you'd better damn well get up and storm out.
:sarcasm:

Funny - many of the same people who make this claim with a straight face are the same ones who constantly tell black people that we're playing the race card whenever WE'RE offended by something that a white person says and demand that we "GET OVER IT!"

Hmmm.

[Eurobabe]

59. I don't see those same white people storming out of their

Churches when their pastors say things they don't agree with. Do you?

Little hypocrisy involved there? Uh, yeah.

[grantcart]

22. HRC strategy 'If I alienate every black person in the US- that proves Obama is playing the race card

[GhostofSandpiper]

25. And it proves every black voter is sexist

You forgot the sexism.

[JVS]

33. yup

[Frank Booth]

27. Meanwhile, many pro-Hillary posters cite with glee Obama's declining ratings among whites,

like it's a good thing that the ridiculous racial themes during this campaign have dredged up old anger and resentment.

That's the way to unify the country and help the Democrats!! Polarize it among racial lines!!

[anonymous171]

29. Interesting take...

[jackson_dem]

31. Clinton gets 93% black Dem support against McCain; Obama gets 75% white support against McCain

You are comparing apples and oranges. What happened with blacks is they, apparently, like Hillary but prefer Obama. Obama has a far deeper, and larger due to numbers, problem with whites. If he loses 25% of white Democrats to McCain can you say Mondale?

[UALRBSofL]

36. Mondale actually stole that election in 84

Hart had 50 more delegates then Mondale but the SD's pushed Mondale past Hart.

[Frank Booth]

37. What do you think the reason is for Obama's recent decline among white voters?

Do you think that attempts to polarize this primary race along racial lines have anything to do with it?

[ZombieHorde]

38. It could just be that they polled different people....

and got a different response.

[jackson_dem]

43. We are going by the results in Texas and Ohio

NAFTAgate was a big reason he was in trouble in Ohio and one reason why he did 10 points better with whites in Texas than Ohio.

In Pennsylvania he has consistently been in the high 20's with whites--and this was before pastorgate...

[Frank Booth]

44. No. I believe that there has been a decline in white support for Obama.

I just don't think that it's a reason to be happy, unlike these three posters, who along with about five other pro-Hillary posters on this website seem to post 5x as much as anyone else and spend most of their time trying to imply that "Obama hates white people" or "We shouldn't vote for Obama because white racists won't vote for Obama, and we don't want to lose the white racist vote."

Then they argue that it's for the good of the party, because it would have been brought up in the general election.

The problem is, these racist attacks have more legitimacy in people's minds when coming from a Democratic opponent since Republicans are seen as the party of racists; hence, people more easily discount Republican race-based attacks. When Democrats make these pernicious racial attacks they leave a deeper impression. Like this guy up above me a few posts pointed out, Hillary still has +90% black support in a race against McCain. Many of these pro-Hillary posters, who are extremely savvy, know that they're playing with fire with this race issue, but they seem to delight in it.

[jackson_dem]

42. No since race wasn't a factor between Wisconsin and Ohio and Texas

He won the white vote in Wisconsin and Virginia (although he lost white Democrats in both states but enjoyed 70-30 rethug and overwhelming indie support). He lost among Latinos as well. The reason it looks racial because he consistently gets 85-90% black support in every state except for the special cases of New York and Arkansas. It looks racial because blacks remain firm while his numbers with others decline.

Texas

White Democrats: H 62, O 37
White indies: O 51, H 45
Latino Democrats: H 69, O 30
Latino indies: H 61, O 35

Overall whites: H 55, O 44
Latinos overall: H 66, O 32

He won blacks by 68 points in Texas.

Ohio

White Dems: H 70, O 27
White indies: H 53, O 45
Whites overall: H 64, O 34

He won blacks by 74 points.

Racializing the primary perhaps has had a delayed response. He initially benefited, going from losing blacks to 85-90% but the constant use of the race card may have produced an eventual backlash. It also seems Edwards supporters who initially went for Obama after he dropped out have swung to Clinton.

His bigger problem is he was a pristine candidate until after Wisconsin. Now he has gotten a bit of bad press, some criticism and he is having trouble standing after taking a few light punches. His numbers will fall among whites, Latinos, and Asians as this happens. It only seems racial because we don't have data for Latinos and Asians in most states and because he keeps getting 85-90% black support it looks like race is motivating his decline among everyone else.

[Frank Booth]

46. Either I'm just missing your point or you're contradicting yourself.

You keep posting that Obama's support among whites is plummeting. Does the concept of race have nothing to do with your posts (which seem to revolve solely around the issue of race)? Are you saying that Obama's decline among whites is all based on the NAFTA issue (which, I'll admit was horribly played by the Obama campaign)? That seems like a stretch.

On a personal note, before I started posting here, I always enjoyed reading your posts because I thought you offered a unique, relatively objective perspective on the issues. I believe that you were an Edwards supporter before he dropped out. Now, it's like you fell in with a bad crowd or something. Now, if I see an "Obama hates white people" thread I assume either you or HM started it. What happened? Why all the relatively recent anger toward Obama and fervent support of Hillary?

[jackson_dem]

47. We don't have much info on Latinos and zero on Asians after Super Tuesday

So when we see numbers about him declining and then look at the crosstabs what we see is it is happening among whites. His black support is solid as a rock. Due to this his decline is by default among whites. For whatever reason nothing that hurts him with other groups can shake his 85-90% black support. It appears racial for this reason. The little info we have on Latinos--he lost them by more than 2:1 in Texas--suggests the same thing that is happening with whites is happening with Latinos too.

The polls focus on race (and even there only whites and blacks) and gender. There isn't as much info in polls before the actual vote on things like income and age. He struggles with seniors and working folks as well.

I became a Clinton supporter after Edwards dropped out because I concluded she was the most electable. They are the same on the issues so I couldn't decide between them on that. Now I think Obama is a potential disaster in November, not just less likely to win.

Are we to ignore the crosstabs? Obama's coalition is the rich, young people, and blacks. He particularly and consistently struggles with the elderly and working folks. He now is doing poorly with whites instead of getting a decent share (let's say 45%).

[Frank Booth]

48. Well, I guess we'll just have to hope that those numbers don't keep slipping

since it's nearly a certainty that Obama will be our nominee. I just don't buy the "well the Republicans would have done it anyway" line of thinking.

[2rth2pwr]

35. I take it you think the white voters are playing the race card or

engaging in bloc voting?

[johnnydrama]

45. there is no slip

Mississippi & Texas aren't the same state as Virginia and Wisconsin.

There is no slip in white voters. Different states vote different ways.

He got very similar numbers in Alabama which has very similar demographics.

[BumRushDaShow]

54. Agree with this...

I think this so-called "slip" is nonsense and if it really exists, is regional. This country is not a monolith and different regions/states have different perspectives/attitudes. One cannot discount the results of those states with < 1% black population and their enthusiastic votes for Obama. Wyoming is one recent example. That would do a disservice to their community.

[blogslut]

52. no shit

great point