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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:02 AM Original message |
My Honest Feelings Why I Believe Dean Would Be a Very Weak Nominee (LONG) |
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Zomby Woof
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:11 AM Response to Original message |
1. Very sound, astute, thoughtful... |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:22 AM Response to Reply #1 |
11. Thanks Man |
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Raya
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:31 AM Response to Reply #1 |
19. Amazingly On Point. Thougthfully argued. How Come its not Locked? |
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quinnox
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:36 AM Response to Reply #19 |
25. LOL |
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xultar
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:31 AM Response to Reply #19 |
117. teee heee heee...That was funny as hell n/t |
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Name removed
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:13 AM Response to Original message |
2. Deleted message |
quinnox
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:43 AM Response to Reply #2 |
36. Looks like your prediction came true |
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dfong63
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:16 AM Response to Original message |
3. if Dean's weak, then the rest of the pack must be complete feebs |
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WiseMen
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Sat Jan-03-04 04:01 AM Response to Reply #3 |
145. Way to win is for Party to LIFT UP their best leader. Primary Process suck |
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Hawkeye-X
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:16 AM Response to Original message |
4. OK. Here's my short version of the defense for Dean.. |
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BobbyJay
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:19 AM Response to Reply #4 |
7. IMO it's easier for Clinton to present himself as a centrist than it is |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:34 AM Response to Reply #7 |
23. I think Dean's record in Vermont *5 term Governor and all* will |
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BobbyJay
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:18 AM Response to Reply #23 |
88. Don't believe me? Just wait |
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xultar
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:34 AM Response to Reply #4 |
118. If you think Dean is a centrist then why does most everyone else |
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Nadienne
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Fri Jan-02-04 11:59 AM Response to Reply #118 |
136. lol, good point |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:17 AM Response to Original message |
5. You don't like politicians who lie for any reason? |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:21 AM Response to Reply #5 |
10. tell me one lie Kucinich has told |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:28 AM Response to Reply #10 |
18. Remember, you asked for it, man |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:32 AM Response to Reply #18 |
21. links... |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:36 AM Response to Reply #21 |
27. If you insist. . . |
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diamondsoul
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:44 AM Response to Reply #27 |
39. So you've got- |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:53 AM Response to Reply #39 |
52. exactly...no lies by Kucinich |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:13 AM Response to Reply #52 |
82. Kucinich just HAPPENED to turn pro-choice day he launched campaign |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:26 AM Response to Reply #82 |
94. show me links |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:44 AM Response to Reply #94 |
99. The announcement of his position came out day of start rally |
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Mairead
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:49 PM Response to Reply #99 |
143. Check your facts--you're wrong. |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:55 AM Response to Reply #39 |
57. The argument that Kucinich has never, ever lied is a hoot |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:06 AM Response to Reply #57 |
74. Oh I'm sure he has lied sometime in his life...who the hell hasn't? |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:10 AM Response to Reply #74 |
79. Kucinich has lied about policies |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:21 AM Response to Reply #79 |
92. how is it dishonest? |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:52 AM Response to Reply #27 |
49. your point has NOT been made... |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:56 AM Response to Reply #49 |
60. Wow, never doubt the power of the true believers! |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:01 AM Response to Reply #60 |
67. You're a Dean Supporter, and You're Criticizing KUCINICH for Evolving?!? |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:04 AM Response to Reply #67 |
72. No |
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ErasureAcer
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:10 AM Response to Reply #72 |
78. you have still failed to show any Kucinch LIES... |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:11 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. So some lies are important, others aren't |
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Hawkeye-X
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:44 AM Response to Reply #78 |
119. You want proof? You got it! |
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Nadienne
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:38 PM Response to Reply #119 |
139. 'scuze me, but |
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oasis
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Sat Jan-03-04 10:03 AM Response to Reply #139 |
147. "We need more troops in Iraq now" Thanks for pointing that out. |
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Zomby Woof
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:15 AM Response to Reply #60 |
85. what a fallacy |
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Scott Lee
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:40 AM Response to Reply #10 |
32. "....no really, it's huge....." |
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diamondsoul
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:45 AM Response to Reply #32 |
42. ROTFL |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:27 AM Response to Reply #5 |
16. Aside From, "I Did Not Have Sex With That Woman," Please Post |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:32 AM Response to Reply #16 |
20. Bill Clinton, claimed he would fight for gay equality |
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sangha
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:38 AM Response to Reply #20 |
29. Clinton did fight for gay equality |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:43 AM Response to Reply #29 |
37. If you call signing DOMA "fighting". . . |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:39 AM Response to Reply #20 |
31. I'm Not Quite That Cynical, and There Is Also a Difference |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:45 AM Response to Reply #31 |
44. You don't fight for equality. . . |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:48 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. I *Am* the Original Poster, and You Are Badly Mistaken |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:59 AM Response to Reply #46 |
65. You don't like politicians who "lie for any reason" |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:03 AM Response to Reply #65 |
70. Please Point Out Where CLARK Has Lied |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:08 AM Response to Reply #70 |
76. Oh, man. . . |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:15 AM Response to Reply #76 |
86. None of These Are Lies, Not Like the Dean Quotes, Anyway |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:47 AM Response to Reply #86 |
108. Just like I said. . . |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 10:52 AM Response to Reply #108 |
128. There's a Difference Between Unambiguous Lies and Subjective Opinions |
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Bread and Circus
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Sat Jan-03-04 11:00 AM Response to Reply #108 |
151. The big problem with Dean's lies... |
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dd123
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Sat Jan-03-04 04:41 AM Response to Reply #70 |
146. Wasn't Clark accused of seriously overcounting number of |
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arewethereyet
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Sat Jan-03-04 07:23 PM Response to Reply #5 |
158. OK I'm curious, what did Edwards lie about ? |
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arewethereyet
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Sat Jan-03-04 09:57 PM Response to Reply #158 |
159. one kick and then you apparantly cant provide one |
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quinnox
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:18 AM Response to Original message |
6. Excellent points |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:21 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. Thanks! I Also Note VT Will Go Dem No Matter What. |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:23 AM Response to Reply #6 |
12. "If that doesn't scare you, nothing will" |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:25 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. I Advise You To View All Candidates With a VERY Critical Eye |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:02 AM Response to Reply #14 |
68. I don't act out of "fear" |
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Mairead
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:04 PM Response to Reply #12 |
144. Dean is the angry advocate of No Real Change At All |
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billbuckhead
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:27 AM Response to Reply #6 |
17. So facts are Dean is an opportunistic DINO and is also unelectable. |
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quinnox
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:38 AM Response to Reply #17 |
30. Yea, those things too |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:50 AM Response to Reply #17 |
109. How sleazy |
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MIMStigator
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:21 AM Response to Original message |
8. your first sentence SAID IT ALL |
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sangha
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:23 AM Response to Reply #8 |
13. I prefer |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:26 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. I Prefer That Too |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:32 AM Response to Original message |
22. Trying to find what part of this is an original thought? |
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BobbyJay
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:35 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. Yeah, screw well-written artistry |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:37 AM Response to Reply #24 |
28. Artistry? |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:40 AM Response to Reply #28 |
33. I Repeat |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:48 AM Response to Reply #33 |
45. Your right DTH, it's what *we* do |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:50 AM Response to Reply #45 |
48. Feel Free |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:53 AM Response to Reply #48 |
53. I'm sorry your ABD I think that's a really short-sighted view |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:55 AM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Unlike You, I *Will* Work and Vote for Dean If He's Our Nominee |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:36 AM Response to Reply #22 |
26. Some Issues Have Been Raised, IMO None Have EVER Been Dealt With |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:42 AM Response to Reply #26 |
35. Your right the issues have been raised... |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:45 AM Response to Reply #35 |
43. If It's So Easy, Please Feel Free to Repost Your Counter-Arguments |
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mzmolly
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:52 AM Response to Reply #43 |
50. Nah, I'm totally bored with the subject matter. |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:53 AM Response to Reply #50 |
54. How Convenient |
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Scott Lee
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:58 AM Response to Reply #43 |
64. How many times? |
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dsc
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:40 AM Response to Original message |
34. On point 3 |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:43 AM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Raising Taxes on the Wealthy and Cutting Defense Are Far Preferable |
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dsc
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:49 AM Response to Reply #38 |
47. Dean would raise the taxes on the wealthy |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:53 AM Response to Reply #47 |
51. Dean Wants to Raise Taxes on the Poor and Middle Class, He Admits It |
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dsc
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:04 AM Response to Reply #51 |
71. First no candidate is raising taxes on anyone |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:21 AM Response to Reply #71 |
91. WHAT SPIN! "Restoring" Taxes? Come On! |
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dsc
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:52 AM Response to Reply #91 |
100. If we call them tax increases we will lose no matter what |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:56 AM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Which Is WHY We Should NOT Increase Taxes on the Poor and Middle Class! |
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dsc
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:55 AM Response to Reply #101 |
113. Mondale and Clinton both tried |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 10:54 AM Response to Reply #113 |
129. Mondale Admitted Famously, "We Will Both Raise Your Taxes" |
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dsc
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:39 PM Response to Reply #129 |
140. Every candidate is using the exact same spin |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:41 PM Response to Reply #140 |
141. But It's Not Just the Wealthy With Dean! |
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dsc
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Sat Jan-03-04 07:16 PM Response to Reply #141 |
157. If it is spin in case a then it is in case b to |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Sun Jan-04-04 11:43 AM Response to Reply #157 |
161. Big Difference Between "Restoring Taxes" on All vs. Just the Rich |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:14 AM Response to Reply #51 |
84. "Raise taxes on the middle class and poor" |
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BobbyJay
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:21 AM Response to Reply #84 |
90. My "middle class family" received a tax cut. |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:52 AM Response to Reply #90 |
110. You've received advances against your refund |
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BobbyJay
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:54 AM Response to Reply #110 |
121. Don't fucking tell me what I got. |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:22 AM Response to Reply #84 |
93. I Received a Tax Cut, and Dismissing the TRUTH as a RW "Talking Point" |
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Brian_Expat
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:54 AM Response to Reply #93 |
111. If you received a sizable tax cut, you are in the wealthiest class |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 10:55 AM Response to Reply #111 |
130. Umm...I Think You Need to Re-Read My Thread-Starting Post |
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Scott Lee
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:44 AM Response to Original message |
40. Beautifully stated. I think I may cry. |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:45 AM Response to Original message |
41. Paul Krugman wants you to can it |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:54 AM Response to Reply #41 |
55. I Never Once Said Dean Has "No" Chance |
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MIMStigator
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:56 AM Response to Reply #41 |
59. Paul Krugman said "it would be nice if Mr. Dean were a decorated war hero" |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:58 AM Response to Reply #59 |
63. Nice Quote! What Do You Say To That, Dean Supporters? |
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MIMStigator
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:59 AM Response to Reply #63 |
66. waah waah POOP! POOP! |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:07 AM Response to Reply #63 |
75. Yes, It's a great Krugman piece |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:17 AM Response to Reply #75 |
87. Umm, This *Is* an Issues Discussion |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:35 AM Response to Reply #87 |
96. NO NO NO... DON'T go there! |
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Scott Lee
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:13 AM Response to Reply #63 |
83. I say Krugman's a helluva writer |
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Walt Starr
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:55 AM Response to Original message |
56. Well that's it then! Pack up camp and everybody give up |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:57 AM Response to Reply #56 |
61. Sorry Walt, "Proof by Blatant Assertion" Doesn't Fly With Me |
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Walt Starr
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:20 AM Response to Reply #61 |
89. It's been hashed and rehashed all over GD2004 |
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BeyondGeography
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:57 AM Response to Original message |
62. Dean is his own worst enemy |
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Leilani
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:55 AM Response to Reply #62 |
112. Great Point |
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Jerseycoa
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Sat Jan-03-04 11:03 AM Response to Reply #62 |
152. "America will not always have the strongest military in the world." |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:02 AM Response to Original message |
69. I'm going to let Krugman respond to most of this attack piece |
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MIMStigator
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:05 AM Response to Reply #69 |
73. "Dean not less electable than rivals with the possible exception of... |
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BeyondGeography
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:08 AM Response to Reply #73 |
77. To quote Krugman n/t |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:12 AM Response to Reply #69 |
81. Thanks for Trying to Respond, Here Are My Rebuttals |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:31 AM Response to Reply #81 |
95. Reply to attack piece... |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:38 AM Response to Reply #95 |
97. You Didn't Answer My Points |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:05 AM Response to Reply #97 |
102. I certainly did answer... you just didn't like responses |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:28 AM Response to Reply #102 |
104. Perception Is Everything, in Elections |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:25 AM Response to Reply #104 |
115. Too bad yours are wrong. |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 11:06 AM Response to Reply #115 |
131. You Are Desperately Trying to Defend Your Candidate |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 11:19 AM Response to Reply #131 |
133. You've proven you can't discuss |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 11:27 AM Response to Reply #133 |
134. I Certainly Will Declare Victory, Thanks |
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Hawkeye-X
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:52 AM Response to Reply #95 |
120. An addendum to #3 |
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wtmusic
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Fri Jan-02-04 01:41 AM Response to Reply #81 |
98. Oh come off it |
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cyclezealot
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:25 AM Response to Original message |
103. As a Kucinich supporter. |
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mouse7
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Fri Jan-02-04 03:30 AM Response to Reply #103 |
116. But you "conveniently"don't demand "purity" on choice? |
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stickdog
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:33 AM Response to Original message |
105. A short reply. |
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cyclezealot
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:45 AM Response to Reply #105 |
107. I again repeat as Studs Terkel says. |
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stickdog
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Fri Jan-02-04 06:20 AM Response to Reply #107 |
124. Studs speaks the truth. DK has the best platform. And the problem is with |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:43 AM Response to Original message |
106. AS I GO TO BED, I LEAVE YOU WITH A PARTING THOUGHT |
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imhotep
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Fri Jan-02-04 05:11 AM Response to Reply #106 |
122. destroying your entire "propositions" |
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TLM
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Fri Jan-02-04 02:56 AM Response to Original message |
114. Same old stuff... so much hate on the Clark side. |
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jonnyblitz
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Fri Jan-02-04 05:29 AM Response to Original message |
123. the shrinking left? sounds like wishful thinking on your part |
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Cheswick2.0
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Fri Jan-02-04 09:04 AM Response to Reply #123 |
125. I don't think the DLC is even this far right |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:32 PM Response to Reply #125 |
137. I'm Sorry, WHO Has No Understanding of Political Dynamics Again? |
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Hep
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Fri Jan-02-04 09:10 AM Response to Original message |
126. You talk about pros and cons |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 11:10 AM Response to Reply #126 |
132. I'm Sorry You Feel That Way, Hep |
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Hep
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Fri Jan-02-04 11:32 AM Response to Reply #132 |
135. This is the thing |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:35 PM Response to Reply #135 |
138. It Is Our Duty as Voters to Do Our Due Diligence |
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Hep
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Fri Jan-02-04 12:47 PM Response to Reply #138 |
142. Fair enough |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Sun Jan-04-04 11:44 AM Response to Reply #142 |
162. Any Time, Thank You for Having a Civil, Intelligent Discussion With Me |
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paulk
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Fri Jan-02-04 10:13 AM Response to Original message |
127. thanks for taking the time to put this together |
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molly
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Sat Jan-03-04 10:24 AM Response to Original message |
148. I am incredibly impressed by your well thought-out post |
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Bread and Circus
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Sat Jan-03-04 10:45 AM Response to Original message |
149. DTH, you reign supreme. |
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mbali
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Sat Jan-03-04 10:47 AM Response to Original message |
150. Beautifully written,well-thought-out, outstanding post. |
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RUMMYisFROSTED
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Sat Jan-03-04 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
153. So you're afraid of what Rove will say. |
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Duder
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Sat Jan-03-04 11:06 AM Response to Original message |
154. I'll leave it... |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Sun Jan-04-04 11:54 AM Response to Reply #154 |
163. Umm...Huh? |
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David Zephyr
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Sat Jan-03-04 07:08 PM Response to Original message |
155. Enjoyed Your Post, DTH. |
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Sun Jan-04-04 11:55 AM Response to Reply #155 |
164. It's All Good, David |
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dodgerartful
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Sat Jan-03-04 07:13 PM Response to Original message |
156. Yeah they might, and monkeys might |
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Clark4VotingRights
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Sun Jan-04-04 01:40 AM Response to Original message |
160. Great post DTH, thanks. |
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DU
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