Listen up, Whitey SPEAKS!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

I have been absolutely stunned the past week or so at what I have witnessed unleashed by the Rev. Wright/Obama speeches, both here on DU and in my real life.

Whatever small doubt that racism -- serious, deep-to-the-bone racism -- is alive and well here in the United Stated of America has been utterly demolished.

For much of the last 20+ years we have lived with a veneer-thin social belief that much of our problems with race are a thing of the past, that we have moved significantly beyond the hatred, the bigotry, and the ugliness of pre-civil rights America.

Well, I think we just found out how wrong that belief was!

I live here in very liberal San Francisco, was raised by a very liberal Mom, and work and play among very liberal people. In the last 48 hours, I was shocked to have heard the following from "friends":

1) "I think that there is something in the black race that makes them not want to be educated -- they want to be criminals because it is easy than working." (from a gay, white male)

2) "I think Obama is a hypocrite for supporting that Wright guy -- after all, Obama is getting all of his support from the rich, white people Wright is complaining about." (from a straight, white male)

3) "Ferrarro was right -- if Obama had been a white guy there is no way he would be where he is today." (from a straight, white male)

4) "It's really hard being a white guy these days, it's not 'hip' to be white now." (from a gay, white male)

5) "I don't know what they are complaining about -- things are so much better for them now." (from a straight, white female)

And so, the mask is removed and there we have it, the face of bigotry -- the blatant variety and the quieter, more insidious kind -- is revealed.

As a white woman in America, I have always been aware of the bigotry towards people of color from White America. Though I am biracial (NA and European), people see my pale skin and light eyes and see "white" -- and they feel comfortable saying the kinds of things to my face they only feel comfortable saying among fellow "whites". (The Daily Show had it 100% right last night -- there are some things only said when you are "among family".)

I have been told jokes that utilized the word "nigger", including one that ended with the punchline: "There are niggers hatching in the truck, run!" I have watched as relatives exited a room as soon as a black man entered it. I have been told the person who scratched my car in a parking lot "was probably a Mexican." I was informed that Chinese people can't drive worth a shit and that since they moved into the neighborhood, it has really gone down hill. I was startled when a coworker exclaimed out loud "The fucking nigger!" when the OJ verdict was read. It was made clear to me by a homeowner that the value of her house was in danger because a black man had moved in three houses down from her -- after all, when "they" move in, the neighborhood goes into decline. I sat stunned when my own brother-in-law and SFPD member started spouting White Supremacy crap at the dinner table on night. And on, and on and on....

They say this because they see a white face and feel they can "let their hair down" a bit.

And I can attest to their surprise when they find out this white face doesn't share their view. When I do make my own views known -- forcefully -- they get red-faced, stammer a bit, and start backpedaling faster then a boater headed over Niagara Falls. But it is out there now -- their bigotry is out there, and every time they see me after, they know that I know.

I am very, very glad that, in his speech, Obama acknowledged and reinforced the Truth that the anger is real for the African-American community. The anger is real because the racism is real. Just ask

James Byrd, Jr.
Abner Louima
Amadou Diallo
Sean Bell
Kathryn Johnston
The Jena Six
The residents of NOLA

And ask this white person -- I am here to tell you it is real, it is real on DU, it is real even here in liberal San Francisco, and it is just below the surface, always, just waiting for something like the Wright/Obama speeches to "let its hair down".

But, this also is a great opportunity.

When the Truth is out there, then -- and only then -- it can be dealt with. It can be examined, it can be corrected, it can be healed.

One of the things I found most compelling about how Mandela handled the aftermath of the Afrikaner government was his use of the Truth and Reconciliation panels. He understood deeply that healing cannot occur without completely exposing the "infection". The Truth was heard. The pain and anger was acknowledged. And it was a beginning -- a baby step on a new path for a country.

We took out first real baby steps back in the 60s, and have been tottering along ever since, gathering steam here and there, falling on our asses more than once -- but still tentative and unsure of ourselves after 30 years.

It is time we had our own national Truth and Reconciliation dialogue -- such a move is long overdue, and I am hoping an approach such as the one Obama is taking is a new beginning for our own country.



(Please do not think I am forgetting sexism and bigotry against women and the GLBT community, I wanted to focus strictly on racial bigotry in this post.)

[Mags]

1. I have been called racist right here on this board today. I am Not.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

25. What were you saying that made them say that?

eom

[yardwork]

38. If someone calls you a racist, hit alert. It's against DU rules.

Nobody should be called a racist for choosing another candidate to support.

On the other hand, if you are being called a racist frequently and consistently, by a variety of posters, maybe your message is being misunderstood.

[LostinVA]

44. You KNOW I'm not a racist, and yet I've been called one many times

The last few months, only because of my avatar. I always alert, but not all of the attacks were deleted.

And know what? Their tactic worked: it's stopped me from commenting in certain threads.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. I think both the "racist" and "sexist" things...

have been thrown around mighty freely here, a little too freely in many instances. :hi:

[LostinVA]

66. If someone says something racist or sexist they should be called on it

Like calling HRC a "hag," or some of the racist stuff posted by trolls. I always alert on everything.

But, the amount of times it's been heavily implied that I'm racist because I'm voting for HRC (not counting the actual accusation of "racist") is sickening. Good grief, even an AA poster who doesn't like me defended me from that lie.

[yardwork]

68. It is sickening. Some posters here behave very badly.

There are some Obama posters here whose posts routinely make me wince.

[yardwork]

49. Don't give in to the bullies.

It's absolutely against DU rules to call anyone a racist. Please continue to hit alert and continue to post, even if some of the posts aren't deleted.

It's important. We will not be silenced!

:pals:

[Voice for Peace]

117. Is it against the rules to accuse someone of being sexist?

[spoony]

85. Yes, too often it is a(n effective) method of shutting down

opposition. I hate that not only because it slurs people with one of the nastiest labels out there, but also because it dillutes correct and honest use of the term. It belittles everyone. Sorry you've had this happen.

[TheDoorbellRang]

122. OK, I must be dim

Why would someone call you a racist because of your avatar?

[Tyler Durden]

148. Because she's NOT supporting Barack Obama.

THEREFORE, she must be a racist.

I get that ALL THE TIME, and the ALERT button is starting to feel like this one:

[ejbr]

107. And lo behold, maybe, just maybe...

you're replying to a racist!

[Tyler Durden]

147. Bullshit.

I'VE been called a racist, numerous times, I have alerted EVERY TIME, and no one has done DICK.

My crime? Not being an Obama Supporter.

My friends from SNCC in 1971 would be very surprised to hear what a racist I am.

[slampoet]

158. People who complain about being called racist don't realize that minorities go through worse ....

...every day.



You just got called a racist? So frikkin what.


If you got called a racist ever day for the rest of your life in front of people, it still wouldn't equal the relative demonstrable suffering the average minority goes through in this country.


If all you can contribute to this discussion is that, you really don't know much about your fellow human beings and their plight.

[PinkTiger]

171. That is not necessarily true.

You don't have to be black to understand it.
And not all white people are racist.
Don't call me a racist unless I come out with racist talk.
And you can get out of my face right now.

[Seabiscuit]

172. "So frikkin what"????? GMAFB.

EVERYONE knows that suffering racism is worse than being called a racist (even when nothing in your words or conduct merit your being called a racist). Don't insult our intelligence with such bullshit. That will never justify falsely calling anyone a racist, and you know it. Changing the subject is never a defense to wrongful behavior.

Even far more than the Obama campaign itself, Obama supporters here and in the media in general have FALSELY AND DISHONESTLY been playing the racism card to falsely portray any criticism or questioning of Obama's record "racist". And THAT is morally and ethically reprehensible and no way to run a campaign with any dignity at all.

Shame on you and shame on every one of Obama's supporters who have been indulging in this ugly, divisive, and thoroughly despicable charade against your fellow Democrats.

SHAME!

[slampoet]

182. This thread started about the secret racism today and y'all turned it into something about YOU

'cause we all know this is really about how the people in power feel.



Oh and BTW I never mentioned Black or White



Most of the racism i see everyday has nothing to do with with or black people. Funny how you thought it did.

[Seabiscuit]

199. Could you be any more obtuse?

Talk about changing the subject.

I was responding to your words in your previous post where you said "so frikkin' what" to another poster complaining about falsely being called a racist.

Stick to the subject matter and get off your phony high horse.

I wasn't talking about "Black and White" either.

And I wasn't talking about "me".

What an absolute crock.

[frogcycle]

2. kick

can't add anything of substance, except to confirm I have heard all those lines and seen all those occurrances many, many times. It is there, it is real, and it is in many, many more people than most people realize.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

I never get used to it.

That it why I posted today -- I heard some serious shit today at work and was just stunned. I just tool along in my own little world most days and then I get smacked in the face with it -- and by someone I (used to) respect. :cry:

Same ol' tired, usless shit....

[RichKay]

104. Here's a thought . . .

maybe they were just being honest and calling it the way they see it. I would not consider one of those comments a racist comment. Stop the belly-aching and grow up.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tatiana]

121. You're a class act. n/t

[EFerrari]

135. Are you lost? n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

170. That comment tells me all I would ever need to know about you, Dick. n/t

[mtnester]

194. Ewww

[mtnester]

195. Ewww

dupe...DU burped in a weird way on this post, but the above post was certainly worth an extra Ewww.

Or maybe a YUCK

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

3. kicked and reccccccccccccced

[Greyskye]

4. To the greatest w/ you.

:kick:

[Georgie_92]

5. Sadly I have heard a lot worse.

Racism is very real.

[thevoiceofreason]

6. Well said

[UALRBSofL]

7. OP, thank you for posting your experience

However, I have do agree GLBT's are much more discriminated against then anyone else. I could make a long list of things but you know that already. So if you are suggesting gay people have more rights then african americans I have to say you are wrong.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. I was suggesting no such thing...

...just leaving it for another post.

[EFerrari]

20. You're off topic. Is that deliberate? n/t

[yardwork]

27. I'm queer too.

Just as I was angry with Obama's campaign for using a homophobe to win South Carolina, I am angry with those who use racist fears to attack Obama.

Obama's campaign made a big mistake in SC. I will give them this - they haven't done it again. It would have helped them in Ohio to pull out the homophobes (believe me, I know - I grew up in Ohio) but they didn't do it. Obama's website include strongly pro-gay rights promises. I believe him.

Yes, us queers are the last to get a ride on the bus. I've been furious with DUers who dismissed our concerns about the McClurkin incident. In fact, it kept me from supporting Obama for months longer than I would otherwise have done.

However, that doesn't make it ok to agree with the foul attacks on Reverend Wright, the Black Panthers, and Obama. No, no, no. I will not sell out my beliefs in an effort to somehow "even the score."

I'm Pagan, but I believe that Jesus was right to remind us to turn the other cheek. I can't live up to that goal very often, but I will try.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

45. That McClurkin thing had me steamed....

I felt Obama had a chance for genuine leadership and blew it. I wish he had done with the McClurkin thing what he's done with the Wright thing. Sadly, it was an opportunity missed -- I hope if it comes again, he has the courage to run with it.

[yardwork]

51. I agree with you. I've concluded that his use of McClurkin was deliberate.

McClurkin helped Obama win South Carolina and become a contender for the nomination. It was a cynical use of bigotry.

However, he hasn't done it again. I understand that he can't apologize now - it's much too late and it would just stir up the homophobes against him. He shouldn't have used McClurkin, but once he did, the best he could do was to stop using him.

I've gradually been won over to Obama, and then this stuff happened with Wright and I'm just so angry about the blatant racism. I'm impressed with the way that Obama has handled it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

55. Yes, I have been impressed as well.

I am not an Obama supporter (I'm Kuch/Edwards), but he has said a few things that amde me really take notice. I liked that he would engage all world leaders, not just our allies, and appreciated that he didn't throw Wright under the bus -- that would have not been to my liking. His speech on Wright I found thoughtful -- I felt it struck the right notes.

He's got his shot with me -- I'll keep watching... :hi:

[yardwork]

63. I was for Kucinich, then Biden, then Edwards, then Hillary, now Obama.

Hell, I'll vote for the Democratic nominee.

[ekwhite]

105. I'll agree that Obama should not have used McClurkin

I didn't really pay that much attention at that point, because I was supporting Edwards. My nephew pointed that out to me, however. I was pleased than in his recent speech that one of the things Obama used to defend Rev. Wright was his work with HIV/AIDS.

[Baby Snooks]

113. It's not the beliefs, it's the attitude...

It's not the beliefs, it's the attitude. I don't know that Barack Obama has ever really shown a negative attitude towards gays and lesbians or towards the ideal of equality for all under the law.

He certainly hasn't taken the "don't ask, don't tell" attitude of the Clintons which doesn't seem to have changed any. About the best you might get from Hillary Clinton is a "don't ask" policy which still doesn't protect those who weren't asked.

Hillary Clinton of course is not a racist. She leaves the racism to staff members who she can fire if they get caught. But it's still there.

There is no place for "isms" or the "phobias" in this country. There really should be no place in the Democratic Party for people who believe there is.

[ekwhite]

102. I don't know if it is useful to measure who is discriminated against more

That is a zero-sum game, IMHO. Blacks, Latinos, Women, Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transsexuals are all deserving of equal protection against the law. We need to work together as progressives to eliminate all discrimination.

[Bluenorthwest]

162. Comparisons are odious

But frankly I do have to offer a clear winner, the group that is invisible to all, the ones most ignored by both communities in which they dwell, the group that no one mentioned during the McClurkin slanders, although they were the actual victims first and foremost and much more so than a person like me......Black Gay People. With Black Gay Women taking the unmitigated, most discriminated cake if you ask me. Ooops, no. The transgendered black people probably take the cake even from the Women...it is pointless to make a graph of oppression, but what I am saying is one way to spot the real victims, they sit silently in a corner and few remember to even speak for them.

[Catherina]

Thank you for fighting it and for that heartfelt post K&R

:hi:

[EFerrari]

8. Just today and in this "forum", someone started a thread to "tar" Obama with the Black Panthers.

No mention of all the good works the Panthers did.

No mention of their demonization in our media.

No mention of their assasination from our lying scumbucket government.

Just, ooo! Scary, white hating black guys endorse Obama!

That a post like that can exist on a "progressive" website should be proof enough that the Reverend Wright is completely justified in his anger. To then turn around and call him a racist for being angry is an old trick of bigotry.

I feel like starting White Black Panthers for Obama. Maybe TCC will give me a grant.

[yardwork]

15. Exactly! You said it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. Man, I saw that!

Like I said on that thread, they are the ultimate "angry black men" -- I'm sooo scared! NOT. :D

Yup, with Oakland just across the Bay from me growing up, I am aware of both the truth and the propaganda of the Panthers from that time.

I am having one giant acid flashback this past week. :hi:

[yardwork]

40. Many white people are astounded to learn what the Black Panthers actually did.

Those few who bother to actually learn the history of the BPP, that is.

[EFerrari]

46. After this smear of a good man and his whole congregation

that he built from scratch, it's just the last fucking straw.

And, I miss acid this week. At least that went away after a few hours. lol :hi:

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

39. Black Panthers killed in their sleep by the FBI.

[yardwork]

42. I know. I remember.

[EFerrari]

43. And the FBI LIED about it. The problem was all the bullets went one way.

So we know what happened.

Bastards.

[JuniperLea]

94. Those in power always seem to think the rest of us are stupid...

Kinda like BushCo...

Now we have the awesome powers of the Intertubes! Can you imagine if we'd had it back then?

I was just a kid... I'd probably just be goofing off on myspace anyway:)

[Bluenorthwest]

167. Plug for Panther

An easy refresher course in Panther history sits at good video stores in the form of the film 'Panther' written by Melvin Van Peebles and directed by Mario Van P. Filled with actors now more famous such as Chris Rock and also featuring Dick Gregory. Melvin's memories and skill made for a good film on a tight budget that got the story out there. I say rent it!

[JuniperLea]

93. Note my name...

X in honor of Malcolm X... copied from my b/f howardx... if I don't give him the cred, he'll tar me for sure... :o

I was a kid when Malcolm X was killed... and still a kid when the Panthers were doing their thing. I remember being quite confused at the hate I was hearing when the deeds the Panthers were doing seemed very good to my young mind. And history shows they did do a lot of good.

But I was called a racist a while ago, so what the fuck do I know?

:silly:

[ekwhite]

106. The assassination of Malcolm X is one of the reasons I hate Farrakhan

and the FBI.

[leftynyc]

160. I understand the FBI but

why Farrakhan?

[EFerrari]

136. I was called sexist because somehow I accidently hid my gender

with this damn keyboard. It's new and really touchy. I also put one of my friends on ignore for a month, lol, and didn't know it.

I grew up thinking the Panthers were a group of dangerous thugs because that's what the news said. Maybe that's why it's so upsetting to see that image still being used.

[MethuenProgressive]

9. I'm 1/4 white, and still get called racist here by the same few posters day after day,

How is "If you don't vote for Obama you're a Racist" going work out as a campaign slogan against McCain?

[displacedtexan]

12. 40 years of fighting for equal rights, and I'm a racist?

According to GDP, I am.

I chose to support Clinton because I felt she could
beat the R in November, not because of Obama's skin color.

[yardwork]

31. If someone calls you a racist, hit alert. It's against DU rules.

Nobody should be called a racist for choosing another candidate to support.

On the other hand, if you are being called a racist frequently and consistently, by a variety of posters, maybe your message is being misunderstood.

[Beacool]

164. Well, now you know how Ferraro feels.........

I understood what she meant, even if she shouldn't have used the word "lucky".

Gerry meant that, if another senator with only 2 years of experience in the senate had wanted to run for president, the party leaders would have told him to sit down and wait until he had built his resume.

The media until recently fawned over Obama as much as his fans and nobody dared to ask any difficult question for fear of being labeled "racists". After seeing how quickly both Clintons were thrown under the bus by the black community after decades of fighting for civil rights, then I can't say that I fully blame the MSM for not wanting to ask the hard questions. Only in the last few weeks is Obama finally getting grilled on issues that should have come up way sooner, and how did he react? He fled the room after 8 questions from reporters.

As for his florid speech on Tuesday, nice speech but a little too late. He should have given that speech weeks ago, not now when he was under duress thanks to his close association to Wright.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

168. The poor, poor Clintons. Being "thrown under the bus" by the mean ol' black community.

:eyes:

Talk about missing the point of the OP.

[Beacool]

169. And you missed my point........ n/t

[Limelight]

175. WE through "THEM" under the bus?!

Is that a joke?! Billy boy is the one who started the race baiting and that started what was an consistent pattern.

Bill says "Oh Jesse Jackson won here too." = "What do you expect from the niggers? They always vote for their own."
A valid question since black people are just too stupid to find substantive reasons to vote for him with the added thrill of finally seeing someone that resembles in the oval office just a bonus. (Kinda like many female voters probably feel, and justifiably so, about Hillary).

Ferraro tells us how "lucky" Obama is to be a black man in the race = "Ain't affirmative action grand?"
I don't give a shit if she "shouldn't have" used lucky. She did. Period. And here's a thought maybe the luck wasn't the color of his skin but that he's obviously been blessed with a God given ability to shape his words in such a way that an urgent sincerity rings true in the ears of most who hear him. Not all of us have that, lucky for him he does.

The Clinton campaign releases a picture of Obama in native Kenyan garb looking, *GASP* dare I say it.... Muslim! = "Muslim = Terrorist. I mean he looks muslim... and did you know his middle name is Hussein?!"
That one kinda speaks for itself don't it?

Hillary says she's sure Obama isn't a muslim... "I take him at his word." = "Cuz Lord knows he could be lying. I mean did you see him in that Kenyan get up? And did you know his middle name is Hussein?!"
Again, self explanatory.

The Clinton campaign asks who can protect the country in the middle of the night. Sure they could have used stock footage of the twinkling skyline of major cities and suburbs, pictures of your national monuments bathed in blue and moonlight... you know all those things that say America as a country. Instead she uses footage that could basically be a peeping Tom or burglar looking through your windows plotting to get into your house (rather than into the country) and murder your kids. I don't have any equals interpretation here. I do video production, make commercials all the time. There are a million different ways to get your point across. BEfore when people were pointing out this subtext I thought the were reaching, but as I sat back and thought about how I might approach the same message never once did the thought of people walking through their houses at night represent the whole of America to me. All it said was "They're coming.... for you... for your kids... ready to break into your house... and who breaks into your houses more? The blacks or the muslims?"... Huh, guess I did have an equals comment.

As a black man, any one of these individually I could have let go as a momentary lapse or some nit wit just running off at the mouth. But you know what all of this together is? It's called a Pattern. Lord knows it's a whole lot of burden to try to speak for the entire black community due to the diversity within it that Senator (soon to be President) Obama described in his speech, but I think I speak for a great many when I say... We didn't throw them under the bus... they through us under their campaign bus! And if that's all they think of us then good riddance!!!

[immoderate]

186. You are just wrong.

Obama is a unique talent. He's got a special charisma, and charm. He's also got the intellect and education to make it work. None of his success is because he's black, or we'd have had Shirley Chisolm, Jesse Jackson or Carol Mosely-Brown in the white house before this. He's in a rare league that JFK and (gulp) Ronald Reagan can claim because of the totality of their personality. If Barbara Jordan were around she'd be there too.

--IMM

[LiberalLovinLug]

193. You can't even SEE the bigger point

You say, "if another senator with only 2 years of experience in the senate had wanted to run for president, the party leaders would have told him to sit down and wait until he had built his resume."

and that you "understood" what (Gerry) meant.(ie. you agreed with her)

But why isn't Al Sharpton the front runner then? You assume that there is a large chunk of the Democratic public who would vote for a black candidate either because they are black themselves, or whites somehow feel sympathy or suppressed guilt for black people in general and that is the sole reason they voted for Obama.

I would expect that black people would overwhelmingly vote for Obama. First off African Americans typically vote Democrat, and here is someone who is closer to their own experience than any other candidate. So what? The black vote is clearly overwhelmed by the white voter, and other races voting, anyway, so that argument is moot.

As far as white people cutting Obama a break because of his skin color? Give ME a break. You think Democrats or any American for that matter, when making a choice on who will be the President of their country, would overlook everything else because they feel some kind of general un-addressed debt to the black community, and vote for the only black candidate running? In a decision THAT important, you honestly think that this is the reason for Obama's success?

Obama is of mixed heritage. At what point would you consider it a fair fight? If his percentage of whiteness was 70%?....80%?.....90%?

I know you've been told this before and it may never sink in, but its not his skin color that's his main appealing feature.....its his power to lead in a positive, uplifting way, his oratory skills and the message of hope. A president doesn't have to have decades of Washington insider experience to lead. Look back on former presidents and you'll see thats true. Its about his judgment about who he picks as advisers and administrators.

You and Gerry exude the same type of subtle racism that exists in most all of us, including me, the kind that Obama talked about. We don't even know it's there. I'm sure that Ferraro doesn't consider herself a racist. But its time we all stared admitting its underlying existence and talk about it.

[Mags]

19. I've been asking that all day. No one will answer.

[EFerrari]

21. What have you been asking all day?

[Mags]

26. why some one on this board called me a racist. I disagreed with

their opinion on BO and the Rev.

[EFerrari]

28. Without calling anyone out, what was the issue?

What did you say?

[Mags]

37. I have emailed the person, maybe they will tell me. I

was certainly not raised as racist. Maybe I just don't get it. I sure not trying to be racist.

[EFerrari]

41. Good. Maybe you two can have a good discussion. n/t

[yardwork]

33. If someone calls you a racist, hit alert. It's against DU rules.

Nobody should be called a racist for choosing another candidate to support.

On the other hand, if you are being called a racist frequently and consistently, by a variety of posters, maybe your message is being misunderstood.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

If someone calls you a racist, hit alert. It's against DU rules.

Nobody should be called a racist for choosing another candidate to support.

On the other hand, if you are being called a racist frequently and consistently, by a variety of posters, maybe your message is being misunderstood.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

52. As mentioned above...

I do think the "racist" (and "sexist") tags have been overused here. With that said, there have been some seriously bigoted remarks made by many posters. And they always need calling on it.

[Texas Hill Country]

57. me too.

[Pawel K]

108. can you show examples of where you were called a racist?

[Ka hrnt]

126. It depends on what the definition of racism is...

The use of the word "racism" has been allowed to slip from:

"The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. "
http://www.bartleby.com/61/71/R0007100.html

to

"2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race."
http://www.bartleby.com/61/71/R0007100.html

to

Saying anything negative about a group of people.

to

Saying anything that could even possibly be (mis)construed as racist (remember David Howard being fired for using the word "niggardly"?)

This sloppiness (to be polite...) has finally come around to bite the hand that fed it, so to speak.

Fortunately, there's a cure. Quoting Mike S. Adams (yes, a conservative):

"I have a form-response to spurious accusations of racism taken from the brilliant criminologist William Wilbanks. It involves asking the accuser these two questions: 1) “What is your definition of racism?” and 2) “How does it apply to the situation at hand?”"

[kwassa]

10. There has been so much near-racism in regards to Wright on this very board

which brings out the idea that the liberal left is a mixed bag, and some of them don't know anything about black America and and are willing to judge it based on no knowledge or information. These whites have only their pre-existing and unexamined personal beliefs, which may hold quite a bit of bias against blacks and black culture.

I think Wright is so harshly judged simply because he is so alien to their own personal life experience.

[EFerrari]

16. What do you mean, near racism?

Ignorance doesn't ameliorate bigotry. It informs it, ironically.

[kwassa]

50. I was trying to be nice.

They really don't deserve it, though.

[EFerrari]

53. You're a nicer person than I am.

:)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

78. Screw "near racism", another poster straight up said that it was not racist to fear black men

it was just practical, or some such bullshit. And another poster agreed.

[mortfrom]

150. And Jesse Jackson

is just a dark skinned cracker.

Why is it so hard to have a reasonable discussion about race?

[ekwhite]

152. Try being reasonable first

I happen to have supported Jesse Jackson back in 1988. Operation PUSH and Operation Rainbow have done a lot of good. Yes, Jesse Jackson is in love with his own mirror, but he has done a lot of good.

[ekwhite]

151. That's funny - I worry more about the white kids in my neighborhood NT

[DeadElephant_ORG]

11. kick!!!

[yardwork]

13. Ugliness and fear coiled like a snake.

I've read things on this board in the past couple of weeks I never expected to see on DU.

My conclusion is that some white folks are so used to privilege they can't accept the possibility that someone else might have a little power for a change. I'm a white queer woman, if that matters.

[Malidictus Maximus]

146. And some of us just don't give a shit what color someone is

I'll work for, hire, or vote for the best person regardless of color or gender (or, of course sexual orientation, etc). According to some people that's 'racist'. I don;t even think about, or give a crap bout, race. Yes, I'm white and raised upper middle class. My dad had a saying when I asked about people of different colors as a youngster: "The only color that matters in America is green".

[Hell Hath No Fury]

191. That's why she phrased it "some white people" --

-- an important distinction she correctly made.

When I hear Rev. Wright and others talk about about "White America" I understand 100% what he is talking about and I don't take it personally -- I know he is talking about the white power structure of this country, not me as an individual. :shrug:

[ekwhite]

153. I'm a white straight male, and I agree with you NT

[stillcool]

17. and some of those responding...

are the first to post inflammatory, divisive posts, and the first to claim "I am not a racist".

[EFerrari]

18. I love ignore. n/t

[stillcool]

60. Me too! I don't know why...

I was so hesitant to use it. I've been blocking Fox News for years.

[Cha]

134. Because most of us didn't use

it until this primary in 2008 and then I felt I had to or I wouldn't come on and that wasn't going to happen.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

22. This country, culture has a very hard time dealing with the truth,

just look at our view of the world, we see "evildoers" everywhere ready to attack us, where's the truth in that? We have been conditioned to fight from cradle to grave, where's the truth in that? We have been told that we have the best health care, where's the truth in that? We have been told that we honor human rights, where's the truth in that? And that this country wants peace, yeah, right.

[EFerrari]

30. Omg! Your post count is 777!

Should I call someone?!

:)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. An interesting side note

since you said you were part NA--there have been a few cases where people who assumed they were black had DNA tests to find out how much African blood they had--and found out they had Native American blood but no black blood at all. Tina Turner, if memory serves, is at least 1/8 Navaho, though I believe she has African ancestry as well.

Thank you for pointing out racism and bigotry. You are braver than I am. When the big white Southern men in my office start talking, I just get very quiet. I need my job.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. My boss was the one...

who told me the joke involving "niggers hatching'! I had only been on the job a few months and he let that one drop -- I was 1) stunned and 2) unsure as how to answer it. I opted for shaming him -- I just looked at him with sadness and disappointment on my face and told him that wasn't funny. He got embarrassed and then shut up. Over the years we have had many discussions about race -- I can now openly challenge him when he says something even remotely bigoted.

Strangely enough, he voted for Obama in the primary!

[pdxmom]

97. Your story makes me wonder why so many here don't get it. You had

a job with a bigot, you expressed your opinion, and over time, after much discussion, you appear to have made a change in his thinking.

I doubt anyone here would insist that you should have quit and walked away, finding a new job, due to his hatefulness.

What would accomplish more - quitting or staying and making a change.

I see it as fairly comparable to Obama's situation with Wright.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

177. I tend to agree with you --

I think of it as water wearing a rock away -- all it takes is time and energy. :) I remember one story about a (gosh I hope I am remember in this rigth!) about a Jewish guy (rabbi?) who befriended a skinhead. He just stayed in there with him, inspite of the bigotry and hatred, just hung on and kept challenging the man's beliefs. Over time, a breakthrough was accomplished and now the two lecture together on race/religion relations.

I think people fear the "unknown" -- and that goes for races and religions. If you have never been personally exposed in a deep way to other cultures/people/faiths I think it is to easy to believe the hype and become afraid of them.

My Mom's best friends while I was growing up were an African American woman and a gay man, I grew up in an Italian and African American neighborhood, went to school in a Latino neighborhood, and went to school with people from every every racial/ethnic background you can think of. This was my normal -- this is how I came to view how life is/should be. In fact, it was so normal for me that when I visit very white areas or areas that are very segregated, I tend to get very nervouse! :D

[loveangelc]

24. well hopefully we're done with the wright stuff for a while at least i havent seen

anyone talking about it anymore....

[hfojvt]

29. I've lived in the conservative midwest

and almost never hear white people "let their hair down" like you described. I'm not so quick to reject a person or pigeonhole them based on one remark, any more that I believe Jesse Jackson is anti-semitic because of his H-town remark.

[EFerrari]

35. Whenever I used to visit my dad in MO, no one said anything overtly.

But, if he was picking up barbeque from a black restaurant, I was expected to wait in the car.

Discussions of crime usually devolved to discussions of black crime but oh, so slowly and indirectly.

I felt like I was on a different planet. And, I've had the same experience here in CA as the OP has had. Asians are greedy and can't drive. Blacks drive down property values, Latinos are dirty and stupid and criminal. If I were ten years older, I'd probably remember slurs against the Irish and against Italians, too.

[hfojvt]

91. probably part of that is my being in small towns and far north of Mizzou

they are so white that there is rarely any discussion of race, although now I do remember a bunch of kids that I had to reign in from using the n-word at the youth center. I probably have heard more remarks than I remember, but probably just wrote off by considering the source to be an ignorant bozo.

[yardwork]

36. I grew up in conservative Ohio, and there were cross burnings twenty miles away.

Ohio has one of the largest numbers of Klan groups of any state in the nation.

Now I live in North Carolina. Fewer Klan, but lots of other white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups. I've heard things from white people that have curled my hair. I've heard these things from middle school principals, office managers, police officers, accountants, and many other "community leaders," as well as from housewives, soccer moms, and nice church ladies. Horrible things.

Reverend Wright is ok with this whitey. I don't blame him for his comments. Like you, I won't pigeon hole somebody based on a couple of sound bites culled from a 20-year career doing good.

[SoonerPride]

56. Most people let the bigots get away with it.

They don't want to start a fight or have cross words in polite company.

Well, I got sick of it.

I tell them their attitudes and comments are ignorant and grossly out of line, and excuse myself from their presence.

If more people told people that it WASN'T OK TO BE A BIGOT then maybe more people would get the idea.

[yardwork]

67. Good for you! I heard something horrible the other day, come to think of it.

I had to take my car to the dealer for some work and I used their shuttle to get to and from work. The shuttle drive, an elderly white man, started talking about a recent murder. Suspects have been caught. They're black. The bus driver started fantasizing about lynching them, in very graphic terms. It was horrible. I found myself alone on a bus with a psycopath.

I told him that I strongly disagreed and he changed the subject.

[ekwhite]

156. You live in North Carolina?

That is where I was born. I remember when the KKK had a sign up on highway 301 going in to Fayetteville. "The Knights of the Klu Klux Klan welcome you to Fayetteville." It was complete with the hoods and the burning cross. Quite a welcome for your black passing through town. I also remember the 'whites only' signs when I was growing up, and the 'whites only' fountains.

I too have heard stuff that would curl your hair from my own relatives. Rev. Wright is OK with me too.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

61. I gguess I can only speak for...

what I experienced when I have spent extended time in Virginia, Maryland, New York, Texas, Colorado, and my home state of California. :shrug:

And the folks who have said such things to me have tended to be salt of the earth, church-going Christians who were the nicest people who you would want to meet. Which made it all the harder to hear.

You are apparently very lucky. :hi:

[hfojvt]

98. probably I just don't get out of the house much

and don't converse much with strangers. We don't have that crap in my family (that I know of) and wouldn't tolerate it from my friends either. Really though I think it is from being 99% white that the issue is barely on the radar. Most people in the "great white north" (a song which was really talking about all the snow in Canada, don't have a problem with black people because they almost never see any black people. At least in the small towns. Which really probably means the racism of some is hidden and would surface if there was more contact.

[ziggysane]

32. See no, speak no, hear no

I understand why white people in my 20-40 agegroup don't think racism is as much of a problem anymore: they've never been exposed to it. Not in person, not on the news, never. My white friends (I'm actually Sephardic Jewish, so in the summer I sometimes get confused as being either Latina or Arab since I live in Seattle and no one here has ever met a J-O-O before) just simply don't get it. I don't claim to understand what it's like to be black or hispanic or even of Arab descent, but I do know what it's like to be called a racial epithet, an experience that is unique among my group of friends.

No one talks about race anymore -- well, unless it's the right screaming about the A-RABS and how evil they are, or how less-than they are -- so most people in my generation and the generation before us don't see what racial minorities experience STILL. Unless you are a racial or ethnic minority, you don't see it and no one really wants to talk about it because it's uncomfortable and scary (or when you do talk about it some loudmouth white boy will say something about how much he "gets" what it's like to be harassed because of the color of his skin). The bottom line is that, yes, bigotry is alive and well, but unless you're paying attention you don't know it. Hell, schools only address the issue when they are forced to, and even then everyone thinks it's a joke, or that it's boring.

My junior year of college, some theater majors did some racially insensitive performance in one of their classes (think "blackface") and the school responded with a letter to all of the students talking about how we (the school) don't tolerate racial stereotypes or bigotry of any kind, and while that is technically true, the response by the administration was a total joke. It was that letter and some sort of teeny tiny teeny little meeting that maybe one semi-important administrator attended, and said meeting wasn't even advertised around campus. The lack-of response on behalf of the institution and zero-response from the student body as a whole was because our 99% white student body of (at the time) less than 800 students DIDN'T GET IT and no one bothered to explain it to them. Most of the people I talked to thought that even the letter from the Provost was too much of a response -- because they simply did not get it. I'll admit that I wasn't as affected by it either, but I still had some grasp of the issue at hand, and I could empathize with those who had been hurt by the performance itself... I could also understand that the would feel at least a little anger at the response or lack thereof.

But, you know, I live in Seattle. White, Christian/Atheist/Agnostic Seattle, where most people I meet will guess until they're blue in the face about my ethnicity because they've never met a Jewish person before and don't even have the idea in their heads that there is a Jewish ethnicity, let alone that there are two completely different types! (And the only people I meet who even know the difference are either Jews themselves or are history nerds.)

Give credit where credit is due though. There are a lot of people who aren't racial or ethnic minorities but still try really REALLY hard to understand the issues that those who are screamed at because of the color of their skin face. I think that if Senator Obama becomes President Obama more people will try harder to understand it, and racial and ethnic minorities might start to try to understand the confusion that white people feel over this whole thing. And the harder we all try, the better things will become... eventually.

[EFerrari]

58. Welcome to DU, ziggy.

:)

[toys4kitty]

83. I second you on the vibes in Seattle

I am pretty darn white. My husband on the other hand is bi-racial. (AA/Italian) We have 2 anglo kids from a previous marriage(me) and 4yr old together.
Anyone who says that racism isn't a factor is sadly mistaken. Even living in Seattle- we have had many painful experiences as a couple and as a family.
We have been talked about, avoided, pointed at, seated at the back of resturants.... and because of my obvious whiteness... I have also been on the flip side of hearing people talk insensitivly about racial issues without knowing that it's something that I hold very dear to my heart. (it's after hearing a rant or tasteless joke, that I offer to show a picture of my family)

I appreciate your struggle and your openness to share your experiences here in Seattle. Thank you. It's important to remember that it's not just the AA community that suffers as a result.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I hope everyone will re-read your last paragraph. It speaks volumes.

[Laughing Mirror]

47. A superb and beautiful post, because it is so deeply deeply honest & true

I am starting to see how those of us who are bi-multi-racial really can be the "bridge" to bring the healing of the separation of races in our society. This concept has been fuzzy to me until now, but somewere in my mind and with me all my life, passing for white in a black world, but in the white world feeling black.

We have a unique perspective Hell Hath No Fury, and with it the responsibility to share it. What you have just posted is what few others could have posted. Thank you for saying this, and I think the healing process has finally begun.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

181. "Zeleig" --

Do you remember that older Woody Allen film where he played a fellow who was a human chameleon, who found himself fitting seamlessly in a variety of odd situations? That's kind of how I feel -- all my life I have found myself accepted into the worlds of other races/cultures/religions, and that has given me a very unique view into those worlds -- the good, the bad, the whole mix.

I think you are right about bi/multi-racial people -- we are a bridge made real between two "tribes" -- we have allegiance to both and to neither. It is a powerful position to be in, with a great deal of responsibility attached to it. Once the "tribe" stops being "us" and "them" and becomes instead "we" -- what then? How on earth do you war against "we"? :)

[EFerrari]

54. Kick

:kick:

[2rth2pwr]

62. Who would sit in judgment as to who or what is racist?

[EFerrari]

64. People with a brain and a conscience?

[JuniperLea]

89. Well said!

:applause:

[Danger Mouse]

71. If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...chances are it's a duck.

[JVS]

183. Wow. That is one stupid post.

[cooolandrew]

65. Supreme post.

[Utopian Leftist]

69. Excellent Post

Thanks for sharing that.

[Danger Mouse]

70. mm..yes...indeed, the hoods and sheets are coming off...

the racism and sexism on du is at times quite discouraging.

[Irishonly]

72. It Has Been Shocking

To take snippets out of a sermon and play them over and over and over has been disgusting. Rev. Wright received an award during the Johnson administration but there was no mention of it. The Black Panthers created day cares and not only fed breakfast to children but took care of their communities. No one reacting to the post on the Obama for president page took notice of it. Nor did they note the entry was waaaaay back and wasn't highlighted by the campaign.

I thought we had come further than we have. It's very sad. UCC has been targeted by the IRS because Obama spoke at their convention while neocon churches have kicked members out for not voting republican and putting voting guides in bulletins have been left alone. Obama had the nerve:sarcasm: to speak about his faith and health care. And I always thought the health and welfare of fellow human beings and living things was one of the tasks Christ charged Christians with.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danger Mouse]

74. the underside of the bridge misses you, troll.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

76. Okay, now THAT...

was just plain weird. :crazy:

[Danger Mouse]

84. don't worry..just a troll that i am sure...

has been sent scurrying back under the bridge from whence it came.

[blues90]

75. I don't know how anyone could not know racism exists

It always has , where were people who thought it suddenly vanished ?

Maybe it's me but I have seen it all my life and I know it never went away .

I also don't know how anyone can completely separate racism and sexism when they both contribute to some of the same problems .

I needs to all be addressed and fixed .

[Bluebear]

77. (I read this as WHITNEY SPEAKS!)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

79. Ha!

:hi:

[rucky]

80. We're still evolving on the issue...

and I think yesterday really did open the gates for a new, more honest perspective on equality.

I'm not going to fault these people, the same way Obama didn't fault Wright or his grandma - as people. He addressed those specific words and actions, but didn't make a blanket judgement about their whole being. This is what's making heads explode around here.

When I studied to be a teacher, we learned (half-smiling) that "there are no bad kids, only bad behaviors"

If a kid says that something is "gay" or "retarded" - we tell him that it's a bigoted and unacceptable thing to say. But we don't call the kid a bigot. See the difference?

[spoony]

86. Very well put

If we can all stop trying to label each other like a giant game of tag; trying to win points instead of making progress, then there's good reason to hope for unity. Obama really won me over. I believe.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

88. I kind of have the same thoughts about that.

I have seen many (what I call) ignorant people -- I include my grandparents in that category. They grew up in the midwest in bigoted times, with bigoted language and opinions all around them -- they absorbed that mindset and it was 100% normal to them. It took them a long time to understand that their views were racist and indeed wrong. They both got there eventually -- it took a lot of education and exposure, but it did happen.

And there are others who know better -- who know what they say is 100% wrong, but make the choice to hang onto their beliefs. Two such people I knew were a former coworker and his partner who had some of the most bigoted views I have ever heard. They knew it and they didn't give one shit about it. I would be completely comfortable calling them bigots.

[elixir]

82. I believe the term racism is used very liberally on this site w/out proper application.

According to the following definition, many of the comments on this board are not necessarily racist but observations of factors, factors which are not a measurement of superiority or dominance but of uniqueness and individuality.


"The belief that one 'racial group' is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group. Often defined as a combination of power, prejudice and discrimination."

[bigmonkey]

92. There's different levels of racism!

-There's overt, in-your-face racism, which needs to be actively, publicly opposed.

-There's covert, but conscious racism that needs to be confronted when it surfaces.

-There's institutional racism, the kind that Obama obliquely referred to when he discussed the very different starting points for African-Americans and whites in an economic sense. This includes political, material and social circumstances that stem from the slave (slave!) status of most African Americans just about 140 years ago. This needs to be fought with knowledge and action both.

-Then there's unconscious racism, attitudes that anyone holds that they've never really brought out in the open, and may never have really thought through and rejected. The problem with this one is that you have to encourage it to be expressed in a safe way so that it can be consciously rejected. It has to be expressed in a way, or in a context, that's safe for the people it's expressed to as well as safe for the person expressing it. This is why the notion that you fight racism by banning and shunning all racist behavior is, to my mind, misguided. It encourages hiding attitudes that need to become conscious in order to be thought through and dispelled. I don't think anyone should be penalized for being willing to work through this stuff - working through it is what we want to happen.

I don't know where I got this self-test from, maybe years ago hearing Malcolm X on TV. Think to yourself these two phrases: "armed black man" and then "armed white man". For evaluating your own unconscious racial attitudes, look at your reaction to each. Why are the reactions different, if they are?

To my mind, we often confuse all these levels of racism when we discuss it. Lots of the "white anger", I think, unless it comes from a clandestine conscious racist, comes from a person who's getting inflamed because they believe that they are being charged with conscious racism, even if it isn't that at all.

[EFerrari]

96. This from someone who approved using the Black Panthers to damage Obama.

What a crock. Your thoughts on racism are about as credible as Dobbs.

[krkaufman]

87. Ask ... Genarlow Wilson.

I've been thinking a US Truth & Reconciliation effort wouldn't be such a bad idea, but not just on the racial front. We may need one to uncover and move beyond BushCo crimes as quickly as possible.

[npincus]

90. K & R

[roseBudd]

95. I heard a white man yell at 3 teen girls crossing in a crosswalk "get out of the road n****r" I can

not imagine what that must have felt like.

[Spiffarino]

99. I think we all have to embrace our inner racist

...then pull him out and kick his ass.

We all have one inside. Some are huge, while others are tiny, even microscopic. The healing comes when you recognize him and renounce everything he tells you.

[MH1]

100. A huge KICK & REC

Thank you for saying this.

[ekwhite]

101. Great post

I am a redneck born and bred, and I have heard plenty of racism in my family. Your post reminds me of what Obama said about his grandmother. It is really uncomfortable when someone you love says something racist.

[BlooInBloo]

103. Pfft. As long as white folks don't admit it, it doesn't exist. You must be new to this country....

EDIT: Everybody knows that the foxes guard the henhouse here.

[Baby Snooks]

109. Those people...

Democrats are just as good with the "those people" attitude as the Republicans. For some reason, they think they are more intelligent about it. There's something intelligent about ignorance?

Not just about African-Americans. About anything-Americans. And of course gays and lesbians. Everyone's favorite "those people."

Americans love to feel "greater than" and usually the only way to feel "greater than" is to find someone "lesser than" and point out, usually in a smarmy way, how "less than" they are.

But the "lesser thans" do it as well. We are a nation divided. Which is why we are falling.

[pengillian101]

110. After his speech...

I didn't care for him before this speech, and now I care for him even less.

[DiverDave]

111. My FIL grew up in Chester PA.

Then it was a wealthy suburb of philly.
Now it's predominantly black, run down, blighted.
My kids go to his house after school and he just cannot seem to stop putting down black folks.
I told him, in no uncertain terms, that if he EVER used that word around my kids again, they would never come over again.

To his credit, he has honored my wishes.

Look, he really is a good guy, just not of this era, no excuses, just a fact.
Do I throw him under the bus?, nope, I'll try and show him that people are just people...like I'm teaching my kids.

Oh, straight white guy here.

[Politicalboi]

112. Very good post

To a very real problem in America. I can only imagine what America would have been like had JFK, RFK, MLK, hadn't been assassinated. The hope that was going through the black community who finally had someone to speak for them only to be shot down.

[Oldtimeralso]

116. I Admit to Being Prejudiced

I dislike ignorant people

[Auntie Bush]

115. I think this is a good subject that needs dicussion...but NOT NOW.

I want this election to be about Dem issues...like health care, getting out of Iraq, education etc. I'm sorry but I want the discussion to be on those issues...as we've waited 8 long years to fight about them. Now Obama has taken us off of our message and substituted it with his own personal issues...race. He's changed the subject for personal reasons...not for the good of the party.

After he got in office...would have been the appropriate time to bring up how prejudice Americans and people around the world really are. I would much rather have him give that speech as president! That would really have been awesome! I'm afraid I feel he brought it up now for political reasons.

[aaronbees]

127. What? Racism and economic inequality are DEM issues

Now and as long as they plague this country. And Obama didn't take on the subject for personal reasons (though he certainly can speak to it eloquently because of his personal experience, but that is something separate); he did so because they came to light with the Wright uproar and he chose now as a good teaching moment to lead the country. The moment chose him and he responded. Sounds like a president acting as he should. Sounds like a leader to me.

[Rex_Goodheart]

118. Wow. Obama's mentor calls us the "US of KKKA" and

all you can see from this affair is white racism against blacks.

ETA: and if all you can see in the Jena 6 affair is one-way racism you obviously don't know much about the affair.

I'm not denying that's there white on black racism, but blasting "whitey" for his angry reaction to Wright is an odd place to point it out.

[kwassa]

125. and you have no idea what the mentor relationship was, or much else

you, like many others here, are basing your entire anti-Wright argument on completely unsupported suppositions. No evidence whatsoever.

[EFerrari]

133. Nope, it's exactly the right place to point it out.

Wright has every reason and history on his side to rail against an abusive white government. Can you dispute that? No, you can't

What do you know about Jena? Do you know what integration meant in Jena?

I'll tell you what: when our government stops backing white supremacist groups like Blackwater, then I'll personally go ask Reverend Wright to reconsider his position.

[ekwhite]

161. Maybe there is a reason for him to say that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_klux_klan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_racism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_crow_laws

[OwnedByFerrets]

119. Damn son, you need to move to Mobile Alabama....

Its been years since Ive heard that much racism even here in the deep deep south. Sounds like you need new acquaintances.:)

[texpatriot2004]

123. Great post. Thank you for posting. nt

[Laelth]

124. Powerful, and true.

But for all its flaws, America is the least racist country I know. Seriously.

At least, here, we can talk about racism. We're dealing with it in a way much of the rest of the world can hardly fathom. We are the most racially-diverse and culturally-mixed nation on earth. And, believe it or not, on the issue of race, we are the most advanced.

For that, I am proud to be an American.

And that Barack Obama is a serious candidate for President proves how far we have come.

-Laelth

[Fresh_Start]

128. racism is out there

pretty much any combination of us/them to divide is out there

I will admit to shuddering when I answer the front door to find Jehovah witnesses come to save my soul.

As wrong as it is for your 'white liberal' acquaintances to say that about blacks/mexicans/chinese/indians....it is also wrong for the blacks to blame all white America.

White America is composed of some people that are bigots maybe even descendents of slave owners, and other people who are not.
Blaming all whites is as prejudiced as blaming all blacks or all Mexicans or all anything.

The biggest source of problem is between those with power (usually also includes money) and those who don't have power.

And the power is happy to throw 'too little cheese' into the cage so that the powerless attack each other for survival.
Even George Bush was smart enough to recognize that he could not win against the powerful and thats why kissed their asses and screwed us every way he could.

If we cared for every member of our society because they were human beings deserving of a modicum of decency in their lives, we would go a long way to resolving many problems.

Race is only one facet of this problem.

[Jamastiene]

179. Great post.

It's more than just black and white and not ALL people of any race are racist. There are always those who want to make things better. Rather than letting the negativity in any group shine out, why not build a coalition with the positives and make the world a better place?

[virgdem]

129. Racism still exists..

and it is very real and quite institutionalized in our country, especially in the South. I live in Virginia and I know several acquaintances who are quite racist. Today was a real stunner for me. A woman I have known since 2001 is a rabid Republican and an admitted racist. She asked me what I thought of Obama's speech. I told her I thought it was a good speech about a subject that needed to be brought out into the open and discussed. I then got the standard diatribe about how horrible Rev. Wright was, how Obama was probably going to win the election and how she feared what he would bring with him to the White House. I got grilled about Hillary and why I thought Obama was the better candidate. She even threw the Obama Hussein crap at me, to which I stopped her cold and told her not to go there. Now I normally like this woman, but this is an aspect of her that I cannot tolerate. I'm glad that I see her only two times a month because if I had to sit through a daily diet of her racist crap, I don't know if my association with her could continue.

I really don't object if someone has a different view point from my own, but when they tell me to go look up information in the assumption that I'm utterly uninformed to their view point, that pretty much frosts it for me. I spend more time acruing information from various websites than this woman ever spends on the computer- period. I was able to refute much of her garbage, but I don't enjoy dealing with people who are only interested in spewing racially incendiary garbage.

Such is life in a very red part of Virginia.

[Barack_America]

130. Sounds like you need to stop hanging around so many Hillary folks.

;)

[file83]

132. ...

:popcorn:

[Chovexani]

140. Oh, fucking stop it.

This would be why people call you cultists.

But I suppose my entire family is racist since we're all black and support Clinton.

[Wetzelbill]

131. I'm an American Indian who looks white, you should see the change

in some people when they find out that I'm Indian. Prejudice exists and it still matters, much more than we like to admit. Look at the bigotry involved in the immigration debate. Or the bigotry against Arabic or Persian people ever since 9/11. It doesn't take much for it to well up and it's ugly.

[yardwork]

166. I'm a lesbian who is very feminine looking. You should see the change when I tell folks I'm queer!

[Wetzelbill]

197. oh I bet!

:)

[nikto]

137. The rightwingers and the Corporatists...

...will never want to give up pushing racism on the American People.

It is too useful a tool in keeping The people divided and weak.

Any progress on race relations we can make as a Nation, even led by Obama,
will have to take place in a maelstrom of racist innuendo and inflammatory
attacks via the Corporate Media and surrogates.

It's going to take a miracle.

Racism is one of the best remaining weapons (along with war and
trashing the Constitution) to keeping control of our society by
The Elites. They are Evil;They will never quit.
Just look at Cheney--HE epitomizes Them.

We shall have to overcome them too.

[Chovexani]

138. I understand what you mean about the "letting their hair down" thing

I'm majority black, though I have a fairly weird mix of ethnicities (see my sig line). I look like I'm black, but I don't speak with AAVE (African American Vernacular English) unless I'm with other black folks. I definitely "code switch" and it's not intentional at all. I sound like a WASPy white girl, so when I'm on the phone with people, they generally tend to assume I'm white. This has led to a number of humorous, maddening, and eye roll-inducing exchanges with various people, especially considering most of my jobs, including my current one as a financial aid rep for a tech school, have been very phone intensive.

The funny: I deal with all my students over the phone, I never meet them in person because we have campuses nationwide and all of them get supported from here in Phoenix. Our school is the Official Tech School of the National Hot Rod Association, so we always have a booth at the races and invite our students out for a VIP experience. I worked the race here a few weeks ago, and got to meet one of my students who is local to the area. He was there with his mom, and when their admissions rep introduced me, the mom's face was literally: :wtf: It wasn't a malicious thing, she was just genuinely surprised because I was not what she was expecting at all. :rofl:

The not so funny: at my last job, customer service for a major credit card company, I had a redneck in Texas call in one day wanting to dispute a charge on his account. Apparently he'd been double billed by accident for a Home Depot purchase, and proceeded to start ranting about "that ole black gal" that was the cashier and how "that's why you never let a n***** near some money". I told him, "a 'black gal' happens to be servicing your credit card account right now, so you may want to show a little more respect, sir." I can't really express just how venom-laced that "sir" was. :P He STFU and I transferred him to the disputes department.

I'm actually looking forward to meeting my newest admissions rep--we've only communicated via phone and emails so far--at our training event tomorrow, because he doesn't know I'm black either. It'll be comedy gold.

[EFerrari]

141. When Gwendolyn Brooks first publisher read her first submissions

they loved them and told her to keep sending in that "negro material".

They had no idea either.

lol

/OOPS

[Chovexani]

143. You know what they say about assuming

Wild, isn't it? :rofl:

[quantass]

139. Thank....YOU!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

142. K and R.

[cameozalaznick]

144. I learned during this primary...

that my usually liberal white mother has a racist streak. This is a woman who used to fight with her parents in the 60s about their racism. And there it was one day when I was telling her to give Obama a chance. "I really think you might like him," I said. She said "No, he's just a N-word (only she used the actual word). And if he were president he would just get a bunch of n-words in his cabinet." She made it sound as if the Obama White House would be some sort of Tobacco Road.

I could not believe it. I had never heard her utter these kinds of comments. But there it is. She's pissed because he didn't "wait his turn." I just know she thought, but did not say, "uppity n-word" (probably thinking the actual word.

[Leopolds Ghost]

145. Hear Hear! I live in one of the most liberal towns in America -- no patience for

genteel white racism that goes by the name of "bourgeois bohemianism".

[bluerum]

149. When major news outlets givet racist commentators air time,,,

you help them spread their message of hate and fear.

Obama's Speech on Race

Ashbrook hosts a Republican pollster (Whit Ayres - why does this remind me of white aryan,) who says "This speech will hurt Obama in the general because it will be used to link him to Wright, and not denouncing Wright is like McCain not denouncing David Duke". (I paraphrase)

Ashbrook does not call him on this, nor do any of his other guests.

Two simple obvious points:
Wright is a pastor who rails against racial injustice and discrimination.
David Duke is member and leader of hate group.

How is this in anyway a valid comparison? And why are racist pigs like this given NPR air time?

[ekwhite]

163. I know what you mean

It pisses me off when I hear a racist bastard like Buchanan passed off as a 'commentator,' or when I see that vile Joe Scarborough or Lou Dobbs on my screen. It's a good thing I don't keep my guns loaded, or there would be a bullet hole through my TV set.

[Mezzo]

154. serious to the bone racism...as displayed by you in "WHITEY SPEAKS"

judging anyone by the color of their skin, and no the content of their character is racism and bigotry through and through.

[keith the dem]

155. Why didn't Hillary take the high road?

The Clinton's have had tons of contact with Black Churches, She knows the sermons and the issues raised there.

If she had defended Obama against these attacks, She would appear diplomatic and presidential, a president for all people and a team player for our party. It would have reduced Obama to her little brother that she had to defend.

Instead, with nary a peep from her and supporters jumping on the bandwagon with the racist Fox News Channel, she looks small, petty and weak.

I think this is a major gaff in her campaign, even if she wins the nomination she will have alienated a necessary part of her base.

[Mira]

157. What a powerful post and true to the core, I made a batch of

bumper stickers once for a customer: "Don't assume I share your prejudices"

[PassingFair]

159. I heard worse than that from a table of old white guys on St. Patrick's Day...

I finally told them, rightfully so, that
Obama was not going to "get" the BIGOT VOTE,
and that these particular BIGOTS were not
going to vote for a mere WOMAN, so WHAT was
the point in discussing the presidential race
with them AT ALL?

I wished them luck with their 100 YEARS of
war in Iraq, and expressed SYMPATHY for their
flagging INVESTMENTS and called it a day.

[lumberjack_jeff]

165. It surprises me what events validate people's belief systems

Whatever small doubt that racism -- serious, deep-to-the-bone racism -- is alive and well here in the United Stated of America has been utterly demolished.

This validation comes in the form of a black person being poised to become President. :shrug:

By itself, that's a good thing, and I think it makes apparent that belief in the inherently predjudicial character of americans is overstated. I just wish it were a black person who embodies better policy.

If we're going to have your "truth and reconciliation dialog" it's going to include some dialog that you don't want to hear. Such as, perhaps Ferraro was partly right. Perhaps Obama is benefiting from his racial background. I don't see why this is all that controversial. Exit polls indicate that people for whom race is important vote primarily for Obama. I don't see that this viewpoint is any more inherently racist than the (up till this year) prevailing view that that candidates succeeded because they where white.

"The Speech" is a good start on evaluating our attitudes - including the attitudes that overstate our flaws.

[jonestonesusa]

185. So, what Ferraro really meant was this...

I'll paraphrase what I think is defensible about what Ferraro said:

As a candidate for President, Senator Barack Obama benefits from the strong support of African American voters, who feel that he is personally inspiring, that he shares both their social identity and their core values, and can represent their political interests more effectively than Hillary Clinton or John Edwards. Exit polling has shown that while African American voters voiced early support for Senator Clinton before the primaries, after they became more familiar with Obama they supported him strongly and helped his candidacy greatly.

But here's what Ferraro said:

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

The difference is clear between these two statements. Am I being fair to the "facts" of what Ferraro said?

BTW, here is Obama's response: "I don't think Geraldine Ferraro's comments have any place in our politics or in the Democratic Party. They are divisive. I think anybody who understands the history of this country knows they are patently absurd...And I would expect that the same way those comments don't have a place in my campaign they shouldn't have a place in Senator Clinton's either."

Note that he doesn't call Ferraro a racist. I do not see anything excessive about this response from Obama in terms of "playing the race card," to use once again a vague and overused phrase.

I should add that not enough people have noted that Ferraro's statement is a conditional statement - we don't really know what Obama's track record would be as a woman or white man, because Obama is neither of those. Obama is a first-term senator with experience in the Illinois statehouse, with his years of experience being comparable to Abraham Lincoln, John Kennedy, and Bill Clinton (not to imply that he is any of those individuals).

Also, you mention that speaking about Obama's racial identity is as uncontroversial as speaking about the whiteness of previous candidates. I do not think that either is uncontroversial - and in fact, part of the privilege of whiteness is the lack of a need to engage in an overt discourse about racial identity. So we haven't had many presidential candidates in the past talking about their whiteness - much of the overt discourse about whiteness, in fact, has been confined to the domain of white supremacy. And, this is also why we have so many white citizens who have not thought about racism or reflected much on their own racial identity, even as African Americans are twice as likely to be unemployed compared to the national average, have one-seventh of the wealth, and are much more likely to be imprisoned, at least the last time I looked at the stats.

Finally - I think that the term "racism" is best used to describe an attribute of the social structure - that racism is systematic because of how power is distributed in our society, and the higher you go in the hierarchy of any social institution, the more power will be concentrated among whites. This is also true of sexism - the higher you go in social institutions, the more power will be held in male hands.

My hope is that we all vote our conscience but do so thoughtfully. I'm an Obama supporter, but I'm working my way through Clinton's biography (written by Bernstein) and I am also reading Obama's first book. I want to be informed as well as an active agent of change, goals we all share, I hope.

[lumberjack_jeff]

189. Well said, and welcome to DU.

:hi:

I'm no mind reader, but if what Ferraro meant was:
"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position.
- because americans today are looking for a break from the past and many feel that Obama's ethnic background enables him to deliver.

... then I am inclined to agree.

She then goes on to say

And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position.

A sentiment with which I disagree, and is the paradigm around which our circular firing squad is constructed - 'my victimhood is more valid than yours' or 'how fair is it that women got the vote 50 years after black men?'

He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.

He is lucky to be who he is, and (rightly or wrongly) the country is caught up in the phenomenon.

[jonestonesusa]

192. Hey, thanks for the welcome! I appreciate it.

Thanks for your greeting and comments.

I would agree with the first statement on the break from the past - this is part of Obama's appeal. However, we'll have to wait to see how the Wright issue unfolds before we can evaluate the last statement. We are starting to see how divisions in our racial politics will affect his candidacy negatively. I was just reading through today's Washington Post article (Will the Answer Outlive Questions) on the aftermath of the speech, and the comments after the article show that being a "novelty" - an African American serious candidate for the presidency, only goes so far in terms of public opinion. The Wright controversy was just the opportunity for those who universally oppose a black president to hone in on Obama.

It's not the first or the last time we'll see this.

Also, Rev. Wright is going to receive an award from TCU's School of Divinity, sure to be controversial too, but it hasn't gotten much play yet in the MSM. I think I'll post in the comments about Wright from their web site...I think that's ok with DU copywriting. I wish that the discussion about Rev. Wright wasn't so one-sided.

"Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright, Jr. has served as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago since 1972. While the congregation size at Trinity was at 87 adults at the time of his call, Dr. Wright’s leadership and theological conviction helped the numbers to grow to over 8,700 members today. Trinity UCC provides a wide number of ministries ranging from Food Share, Dance and Math tutorials to its Africa ministry and cell groups...Trinity Church tithes its annual budget each year by giving one tenth of its revenues to other churches, other agencies and denominational missions (as well as agencies supporting mission work in Liberia, Haiti, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil and South Africa...Trinity has also “birthed” four new congregations in the United Church of Christ – two in Atlanta, Georgia, one in Gary, Indiana and one in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. After six years in the military, Pastor Wright transferred to Howard University where he completed his undergraduate studies and received his first Master’s Degree. His second Master’s Degree was from University of Chicago Divinity School. His Doctorate was received from the United Theological Seminary under Dr. Samuel Dewitt Proctor. As a first-rate homiletician as well as civil rights advocate, Dr. Wright gives thanks to God for giving him parents who lived what the Gospel of Jesus Christ really means."

Meanwhile, I'll try to get some work done today!

[bpeale]

173. just found out that racism isn't dead! where the hell have you been the last 8 yrs?

bushco have been about nothing but race the last 8 yrs. otherwise, how could you look at New Orleans & not feel that was about race? how could you witness people being turned back to die by white people with guns & not see racism? how could you witness the homelessness of New Orleans & not see racism? how could you not read about the Jena6 & not see racism? where the hell have you been living? racism is alive & well in good ol' Amerika. we would all like to think that its a thing of the past, but it's not. welcome to the real world. i'm white and i see racism everywhere. i'm a woman & i see sexism everywhere. wake up & smell the coffee people!

[NedSchneebly]

174. OK, Whitey. you've sited several examples of white idiocy ...

none of which is condonable. What about the "stick it to whitey" mentality that was spouted by Rev. Wright? That should be just as distastful to us as white racist attitudes. I think Wright is just a black David Duke.

[Iggo]

176. I hate being called "Whitey."

I'd never call anyone "Blackie."

Either one disgusts me.

[NedSchneebly]

180. I can relate ...

Really

[BlooInBloo]

184. Yah - it's EXACTLY the same...

... White folks lying based on grammatical similarity might be my new favorite - taking over the #1 slot from the colorblind racists.

[jonestonesusa]

187. Show me where Wright advocates violence against whites

and I'll agree with you that he compares to David Duke. Show me where David Duke has a degree in divinity and is a minister for a Christian Church. I suspect as well that there are more white members of Wright's church than there are black members of the KKK.

What do you mean by "stick it to whitey" mentality? How carefully have you looked at Wright's career and statements in order to make these judgments? What have you listened to or read by him?

[NedSchneebly]

198. I don't know that he advocates violence against whites ...

He does have a certain smug delight in this country's suffering at 911, which I find despicable. He blatantly blames a multitude of troubles that the black community is plagued with, like the drug problem, black prison population, etc. on whites. It seems to me that he is inciting a lot of anger (if not violence) aimed at whites. To me it seems like a "stick it to whitey" mentality.

And I don't know how Hillary got dragged into this. Exactly how does Hillary never having to have been called the "N-word" make her less qualified to be president? Believe me, Hillary has been called some pretty nasty things.

The Duke comparison may be a little harsh, but the similarities are there.

[jonestonesusa]

200. I appreciate the response - a couple of points...

I think it's fine to call someone out on their "smug delight" at what happened on 9-11 if that's what's being expressed. But frankly, this sentiment is widely distributed on the left, the idea that 9-11 was "the chickens coming home to roost" after American foreign military exercises for so many years. I agree with you in that it's a moral quicksand to play that game of equivalency, speculating for instance, on whether 9-11 is some kind of compensation for what "we did to them," etc. The game of equivalency is also expressed in the Hillary Clinton reference in Wright's speech, but it goes both ways. If one person says that Obama faces racism, it's almost a reflex for someone else to say that Clinton faces sexism. I will say that sexism did not keep her from spending 8 years in the White House, part of the 35 years of experience that she's running on. This is access to power that so far in U.S. history has been confined to white women.

Another point you mentioned was the troubles in the black community and who's responsible, another topic that needs dialogue. What has been the impact of discrimination over centuries on the black community? My feeling is that most whites hesitate to answer that question, even if we look at it as a sociology question. On the moral side, what would you say is the appropriate emotion for African Americans to have towards the white power structure - and in the end, who gets to decide how righteously or forgivingly one should respond to that history? Think about how strongly George Bush is opposed on the left - even when Bush is the same ethnicity as many white Americans, how strong the feeling is among many people that he doesn't represent us, he's not legitimate, he's a crook? Is it wrong for moveon.org to be so righteous in their opposition to Bush? That same intensity of sentiment is multiplied among African Americans, given the huge gaps in income, wealth, education, health, imprisonment, etc. that have endured. Racism has only been illegal in the United States for 40 years or so, following 400 years (since the 1660s) of legal racism, slavery, discrimination, etc. Who was responsible for the maintenance of American racism, and what role has historical racism had on the status of African Americans today? Has racism disappeared - is it true for me that as a black man there is no impact of discrimination on my life? That's where our dialogue should go in my opinion. It seems to me that many whites today believe that no living white person is complicit in the status of African Americans today - do you agree? This difference in perspective needs thoughtful discussion - and Obama gave it at least some of that in his speech.

David Duke did not suffer from any kind of systematic oppression by African Americans as a part of the American political structure. He has not built a church that serves 8,000 parishioners and gives 10% of its income to service programs abroad. Wright is not part of an organization that systematically targeted African Americans for vigilante violence from the 1860s the 1960s.

Thanks for the dialogue - anytime...peace.

[Political Heretic]

178. Did I kick this already? Kicking again.

[Swamp Rat]

188. k&r

[noiretextatique]

190. aside from using the word "racist" as a tactic

to support obama and/or tarnish clinton, there are some very racist posts and posters right here. i will continue to out them as racists when i see it here. and thanks so much for pointing out that "liberal" does not necessarily = not racist.

[northzax]

196. so your friends are a bunch of bigots

what do you think that says about you?

[Willo]

201. I think a Truth and Reconcilation dialogue would be great.

This past week I've recalled several past racial incidents I've lived through. I've been thinking over the people involved as well as my responses/reactions in those situations. Dialogue would be great. It won't always be good but it's needed and we'll all get where we need to be in the end.

I also think we have to be more careful to use words accurately to define what we intend, aloud and in posts.
Words are being misused so often, thrown around so loosely that their definitions are becoming blurred. Words such as:

Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Bias, Prejudice, Discrimination, Hate, Love, Like, Dislike, Prefer, For, Against, Need and Want.

A speaker or writer may not say what they actually meant. But, when we hear something that sounds racist, sexist, etc., the speaker/writer should be given an opportunity to clarify their statement without being boxed in for having said it. It is disquieting to not allow a person to get further than "but...but...that's not what I meant..."


There are others on DU who can word this post much better than I have here. Please have at it.

Thanks for sharing this OP.