Clinton supporters, if you feel Obama is disenfranchising MI and FL voters...

[goletian]

What do you think about Hillary encouraging the disenfranchisement of virtually every state's voters by touting that pledged delegates aren't obligated to vote in accordance with election results? How do you guys feel about that?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/26/clinton.delegates/index.html

[anonymous171]

1. psst- people who don't vote for Hillary don't count as voters.

[goletian]

9. lol, i know, i just now got the memo... n/t

[Blue_State_Elitist]

2. Technically they don't have to vote in accordance with election results.

But I highly doubt Hillary's campaign believes that they can sway pledged delegates who consist of intense Obama supporters and volunteers.

The campaigns choose their delegates. If a good deal of pledged delegates switch from Obama to Clinton it would be a result of a failure of the Obama campaign to pick good delegates.

[DerekJ]

5. I don't get it. So are you saying that you have no problem with that?

No honest, I can't figure it out from your answer.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

11. My post was without opinion.

Just a discussion of the process.

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. It's called nominating delegates to a national convention. Party politics

What I feel is irrelevant. You're outraged @ the existing rules.

[DemzRock]

4. Maybe we should throw out the Electoral College and the Party conventions.

Just have a big primary.

Whoever wins the primary wins. No caucuses either. Just vote directly.

And throw out the electoral college too.

But, then, as I've been trying to remind people, America is not a democracy.

Why do you think we have delegates and electors?

So the people don't have a direct vote.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. That's not disenfranchisement

[goletian]

8. Technically, it is.

Disenfranchisement is, by its broadest definition, the deprivation of a privilege. But I see what you're saying. Don't get to vote = HORRIBLE. You can vote but it counts for nothing = Legitimate.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. I support her right to lobby Super Delegates, Obama does also

I would not support her lobbying pledged delegates, nor would I support Obama doing it. But though there was a little back and forth about this months ago, how one side may be forced to if the other side did first, both campaigns claim they are not going to do this.

The thing is, this isn't something that can safely be done in secret - it would involve talking to people with known associations to the other side for either candidate to attempt it, which let's just say is risky. It is controversial enough when either campaign tries to get a super delegate to change sides after they endorsed.

I think Hillary was making a point about how out of order it is to assume that Super Delegates must vote to follow the lead of whoever has the most pledged delegates, since even the pledged delegates are legally free to change their minds.

This is not somewhere Hillary would want to go even if you do not trust her. That can of worms would more likely work against her than for her. She has no reason to believe that she would get more conversions than Barack would, especially if people got angry at her, as they would, for trying to win conversions of pledged delegates.

[msallied]

10. What it basically comes down to is this:

If superdelegates were automatically expected to vote with their respective districts/states, then there would be no reason to HAVE superdelegates, which were designed to prevent the party from nominating someone who was "anti-establishment." Certainly, it is something akin to political suicide if they DON'T vote for the person who is deemed most electable by the constituents who voted for a particular candidate, but they certainly don't HAVE to. It all comes down to which candidate can lobby the most of them.

I'm willing to bet that most of them will ultimately swing for the person who goes into the convention with the most electability, and that person is generally the one who has received the most votes and delegates.

What this particular primary season has taught us is that the notion of superdelegates should be tossed out the window once and for all, because it gives the entire process a complete lack of democracy.

[LWolf]

12. I feel that Michigan and Florida voters have been

disenfranchised by their state party leaders and by an undemocratic primary system.

I think both Obama and Clinton are willing to take advantage of that right now.

I'm a supporter of neither.