John Kerry being "Nadered" is the Real Dark Tragedgy of Campaign

[WiseMen]

Paul Krugman “Who is Nader Now,” criticizes Ralf Nader for attacking Al Gore in 2000 “even though Mr. Gore, however unsatisfying to the Naderites, was clearly a better choice than the current occupant of the White House,” and then draws parallels to Kerry and Lieberman’s current attacks on Dr. Dean credentials.

However, even Krugman who has been trying to both advise the Dean camp as well as build a bridge to Clark, has to comment regarding Dean: "That's not to say that a candidate's qualifications don't matter: it would be nice if Mr. Dean were a decorated war hero . . " Yes indeed, it would be nice if the front-runner for the Democratic Party was still John Kerry.

Sadly, it is not. And,while I tend to agree with much of what Krugman says as an economist, a fatal flaw in his argument here is that his campaign analysis begins somewhat late in the game. From early last year it was John Kerry who was the presumptive nominee of the party and was aggressively taking the fight to Bush. It was Howard Dean who played the “Nader role” engaging in the most ferocious and insidious attacks against Kerry saying the he was “not standing up for democratic principles” and referring to him as “Bush Defender,” “Washington Insider,” and in bed with “Washington Lobbyists” with his surrogates referring to Kerry as “aloof,” “out of touch,” and “a Jerk.” It was Dean, not any of the other candidates, that repeatedly charged that the then front-runner could not win, because he was Bush-lite.

Most insidiously Dean used the bi-partisan IWR vote as a wedge issue to separate Kerry from his natural progressive constituency. While Kerry’s IWR vote was unpopular with his base, it was Dean who transformed a position which was held by many respected democrats (as well as the Syrians, the French, the Germans, the Russians, the Mexicans, etc. , who voted unanimously for U.N. Resolution 1441) into a monstrous act, equivalent to a declaration of war, repeatedly using it to demonize and discredit Senator Kerry in the harshest of terms.

Even, more so than Nader’s characterizations of Gore, Dean’s caricatures of John Kerry have been deceitful and contrary to Kerry’s record and his life of commitment to service. Kerry has made his own mistakes, but it has been Dean who has “Nadered” our chances for 2004.

In summary. While I agree with Krugman’s disparaging of the Nader role in 2000, I have felt for the last year that it was Dean who was tragically playing Nader (even to the point of petulant threats regarding the support of his “people”) and, one way or the other, we are in danger of a similar result in 2004.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/02/opinion/02KRUG.html

[Hep]

1. It's good that we see this right up next to that thread about the RW

media not being assholes anymore or whatever. Because Dean opponents could not reference Krugman ENOUGH when he was criticising Dean's economic policies. Now suddenly he's a Dean shill.

What a world.

[Octafish]

11. You missed the point.

As a Liberal Democrat, John Kerry has the best chance since RFK ran in 1968 of winning the White House. That's why the BFEE and VRWC fear Kerry. He'd clobber Bush in November and have the US Attorney General readying charges on the lot of them. Unlike '68, the assassins use smear and innuendo, instead of bullets.

[mouse7]

14. Kerry is NOT a liberal democrat any more

He might have been at one time, but he's been switching his current and past record so fast that nothing is sure except his IWR vote. Kerry defended THAT the day Saddam was captured and he trashed Dean.

[blm]

28. By pointing out that Dean has NO grasp of Iraq

because Dean's positions were inconsistent and his statements reflected a basic ignorance - Kerry was doing this nation a favor.

[mouse7]

37. Kerry pointing that out did do the nation a favor

People figured out what Kerry was and how much he would savage someone to be President. Kerry's campaign has been in freefall ever since. Kerry is hemorraging a full percentage point A DAY in NH now. Kerry is done thanks to that display.

[Padraig18]

38. "Basic ignorance" of Iraq.

back that up with some in-context quotes, will you? :eyes:

[Raya]

47. Just liike "Dean only one to oppose the war,:" Beautiful

[mouse7]

2. Kerry earned it. Live with it

When Kerry said Dean "wasn't fit for govern" for saying capturing Saddam didn't make US safer, then Dean was proven absolutely correct when Tom Ridge stepped out on the platform 7 days later to increase the alert level, Kerry earned getting savaged by the whole party.

On edit: Also, Kerry chose to vote for the IWR. Stop blaming everyone in the Democratic Party but Kerry. Blame KERRY for Kerry's IWR vote.

Sorry Kerry has sucked. It's not anyone's fault but Kerry.

[Hep]

4. And then some

Couldn't believe when I saw that.

[blm]

16. Too bad Dean lied when he called Kerry, "Bushlite" and so many believed

him even though Kerry has a 30+ year record of progressive advocacy that Dean couldn't match in another 30 years.

Too bad the Dean campaign spread lies that Kerry is a "corrupt Washington insider" when NOONE alive today has a greater record of exposing government corruption than Kerry.

Too bad for this nation and all those who CARE about real government corruption that Dean can succeed with his lies that betray those efforts of all those who fight to expose corruption.Dean made a mockery of those years of battle.

Shame.

[Padraig18]

19. Ummm...

:nopity:

[blm]

20. Too bad you find that Dean's lies are so attractive

and those who point that out are to be mocked.

You do know that's how the GOP treated us in 2000 with that exact same tactic, don't you?

[Scott Lee]

22. I'm so happy that "lies" are only your opinion

and stop there. You know blm if you stopped playing the broken record for awhile, you might get a glimmer of some current political realities - one, being that John Kerry's time in this race is rapidly coming to a close. He's not a bad man. He is a good Senator.

His only problem is that he is an ordinary politician in an extraordinary time. The two just don't mix.

[newsguyatl]

56. damn well said scott

His only problem is that he is an ordinary politician in an extraordinary time. The two just don't mix/

[Padraig18]

23. Your opinons are not *facts*

You do understand the difference, don't you?

[mouse7]

33. No, her opinions ARE facts.

Don't even try, padraig18. Move on. It's not worth the effort.

[WiseMen]

63. I Agree. Dean Campaign is well oiled -- very slippery

[mouse7]

25. Yeah... everyone lies but Kerry

Dean lies, the other candidates lie, the progressive press lies, the voters lie, the voting records lie, the...

[JI7]

3. comparing a primary to a general election

bush isn't in this election.

[WiseMen]

12. Note: that is the Premise of the Krugman

[Toucano]

5. To see one's name turn into a verb.

...who has “Nadered” our chances...

What a tragic honor. It just amuses me.

[cosmicdot]

43. you nailed that! anyone bushwhacked?

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. John Kerry has only himself to blame for his failures

He chose to vote as he did. He hired the people to run his campaign. I am so sick of the excuses and trying to transfer the blame everywhere but where it belongs. Dislike of Kerry's IWR vote existed before Dean even mentioned it. It was Kerry's vote and he voted against what his constituents wanted. It was HIS choice, he made that call and now he's paying for it...end of story. Howard Dean didn't hold a gun to Kerry's head and make him vote yes on IWR, so stop blaming him for something Kerry did of his own free will.

:eyes:

[WiseMen]

61. Kerry Did what He though Best for the Security of the Nation. Not campaign

[Monte Carlo]

7. This isn't very contructive, WiseMen.

I'm behind Kerry, so I can sympathize with what you are saying, but I don't know if this is the way to do it. I have my feelings about Krugman's column, but I think you're largely appealing to the wrong crowd.

[Padraig18]

8. 23 Democratic senators knew the IWR vote was wrong.

We knew it was wrong. Sen. Kerry is reaping what he has sown, as are Sens. Lieberman and Edwards and Cong. Gephart.

:nopity:

[Monte Carlo]

13. Kerry voted how he had to...

... based upon the information provided. Kerry is no eager warrior like Lieberman was in Iraq, but in matters of national security it is best to err on the side of caution.

[Padraig18]

17. That may well be how he felt.

But the political consequence of opposing the party's 'base' are as merciless as the Law of Gravity; he gets no 'symapthy' from me.

:shrug:

[sandnsea]

24. Cut off your nose to spite your face

That's what has happened with Kerry. Way too many people have said he'd be the nominee and the BEST President. His reasons for that vote, which has already been pointed out were in sync with the rest of the world including Howard Dean, ought to be the decisive factor.

[Hep]

27. Ignoring 23 people who voted the right way

is no way to conduct onesself in a debate of this nature.

Why were those 23 people wrong to vote against the war? If we did what was popular, Baywatch would have won emmy's. I'm all for keeping the bar high.

[Padraig18]

30. When Biden=Lugar failed...

... which is the version Howard Dean did, in fact, support. Sen. Kerry should have jopined his 23 Democratic colleagues in voting against the IWR.

Nice spin on your part, though.

:nopity:

[sandnsea]

41. Biden-Lugar was a war resolution

There's no two ways about it.

The majority of the world agreed that inspectors had to go into Iraq and that Saddam would suffer serious consequences if he did not comply. War was the serious consequence. That is what everybody agreed with in the fall of 2002. Kerry's vote was not in conflict with the majority opinion in the fall.

Neither were his statements regarding Bush's handling of the diplomacy or his deploring the fact that Bush had taken us into the way the way he did.

There's no reason to hold this over his head, none whatsoever. It's a trumped up issue and I'll never understand why people who would vote for him otherwise let it get in the way. How anybody can think Dean is a viable alternative to Kerry is mind boggling.

[mouse7]

42. One line is pretty key

When Kerry said he believed Dumbya, everybody laughed out loud at Kerry.

[Padraig18]

45. You've got it ass-backwards

How anyone who opposed the war CAN vote for Sen. Kerry is what's mind-boggling.

[sandnsea]

49. I Want A President

It's pretty damned easy actually. I know what he'd do, it isn't any different after the stupid vote than before the stupid vote. He's the same person, with the same vision, the same intelligence, the same character. He voted because threat of military force was the only way to get inspectors into Iraq. It's that simple. I don't find the need to complicate it in order to "be heard" or vent frustrations or whatever it is that single-minded anti-war people think they're accomplishing. All that's going to be accomplished is a lost election and 4 more years of Bush. If I thought Lieberman could beat Bush, I'd throw my support behind him. I flat don't give a shit about the goddamn war vote when it comes to putting up the best candidate to beat Bush. If it was all about my personal views, I'd be for Kucinich. It's not. It's about getting Bush the hell out of office. Kerry or Clark have the best chance of doing that. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

55. You might want to look at the latest CNN/Time poll, then.

Kerry is NOT the candidate who runs best against Bush--DEAN is.

[Hep]

18. How he had to?

He suported Biden Lugar. But when it failed, he supported the IWR. As far as I'm concerned he HAD TO vote no. He was clearly opposed to it. Voting yes went against his ideals AND mine. It's hard to forgive that.

[Monte Carlo]

32. If you'd care, his speech he gave at the time explains a lot.

He was in no eager rush for war, but he had to balance the odds, and it came out on the 'yes' side of things.

[Hep]

36. That's fine,

but it is contrary to what I believed our country needed in a D leader. I know he wasn't a hawk about the war. But he erred on the side of safety.

[Lobo_13]

60. Kerry voted how he thought he had to

to keep his chances for the White House alive.

For a guy to be such a "progressive" candidate to turn around and side with the enemy in the most important Senate vote in a decade, that tells me that he was watching the White House when he should have been watching out for the people of Massachusettes.

I don't really hold that much ill will for him, I understand the climate at the time. He watched as Max Cleland was destroyed by a chickenhawk with the full force of the GOP leviathan behind him. He saw poll numbers solidly behind Bush for a war I'm sure he KNEW was wrong to begin with. It scared the shit out of a lot of Democrats, who all took up the novel strategy of appeasement.

[Upfront]

9. Nice Artical For Dr. Dean

I hope you all take the time to read the artical. It is very positive for Dr. Dean.

[sandnsea]

10. Well, that's one way

And if that's the kind of politics people want, then what are you gonna do. *sigh*

[TeacherCreature]

15. Poor Kerry

Nothing is ever his fault.
No one Nadered Kerry except Kerry. There is no dark tragedy here, no Shakesperean characters.

[adadem]

21. Not when

Fibber McGee distorts the truth. Trippi has made himself into a Rove clone.

[Hep]

26. How exactly?

It makes a good line in a post, but it means nothing if you can't explain it.

[WiseMen]

29. Kerry has blundered in many ways, but NOT by critisizing Dean

The sad litany of campaign attack “firsts” is this:
(1)Howard Dean was the first candidate to attack Democratic candidates on the stump;
(2) Howard Dean was the first candidate to run an attack ad against another Democrat;
(3) Howard Dean is the only candidate to repeatedly attack his own party's Congressional delegation and leadership.

[Hep]

31. Poll number suggest otherwise

considering the amount of energy he has devoted to attacking Dean.

[Padraig18]

35. "How the shoe doth pinch, when worn on the other foot."

Odd how it's an 'attack' on sen. Kerry when we point to his recorded Senate votes, etc., but it's simply 'fair comment' when pointing to Howard Dean's record ...

[Capn Sunshine]

34. Of course there's MORE to the story...

Bush lite, meet IWR.

[vi5]

39. I wish I could have more sympathy for Kerry...

I have always liked him. I think he is probably the candidate with the staunchest liberal record.

But I think his campaign woes have been the result of his own actions, inactions, and stumbles.

I think he has listened to too many of his handlers and reacted to polls rather than simply touting his extraordinary record.

I would have been a Kerry supporter but his primary campaign has led me to believe that he will make many of the same mistakes Gore made in 2000, and we just can't afford that this time around.

I will support him if he is the nominee, just as I will any of our current crop.

[Sensitivity]

44. I think he started fighting late. Who knows, he still doesn't get press

[Metrix]

40. Krugman making excuses for Howard

'To be fair, Mr. Dean's warning that his ardent supporters might not vote for a "conventional Washington politician" was a bit close to the line, but it appeared to be a careless rather than a vindictive remark.'

That's the same excuse the media makes for Bush.

[Raya]

46. Whoa! Though Krug Article was wierd. Guess he didn't attend and Dean

campaign rants like around Feb, march, april, may, june ....

talk about attacks!

[Hep]

48. YOU went?

I went to those rallies and attacks were few and far between. Oh right, if it's Dean everything he says is an attack, if it's anyone else, The criteria for a comment to be an attack are much stricter.

[Raya]

51. Of Course. Dean Derogatories are just "comments" on facts of the case

Even Mr. Krugman agrees with you: Dean should allways be given the benefit of the doubt.

"To be fair, Mr. Dean's warning that his ardent supporters might not vote for a "conventional Washington politician" was a bit close to the line, but it appeared to be a careless rather than a vindictive remark."

Of course, no vindictiveness in Governor Dean's remarks. He is just and inexperience campaigner. Just a little careless fun needed to get to the top, and keep others down. Right?

[sandnsea]

52. That one slayed me

If it had been the ONLY time he'd made that remark, or even the ONLY time he's made other "close to the line" remarks, maybe I'd say he was careless. If Howard Dean were my kid and made this many "careless" remarks, he'd be in his room for life!

[Hep]

53. 6-6 is a pretty impressive record

for a guy without campaign experience.

[Raya]

54. I am becoming resigned to fact the Politics is a Dirty Game. Hope for the

best.

[stickdog]

57. Kerry's campaign is truly a dark tragedy.

And Kerry is truly a tragic hero with a classic tragic flaw.

He suicided his own campaign with his pro-Bush attacks Dean.

[incapsulated]

58. The Trashing of John Kerry

It has been one of the most painful spectacles of this primary. I like and respect Kerry and I've been disgusted by the smearing of him by Dean. I will readily admit that Kerry has done much to bury himself in this primary run, but he does not deserve the character assasination that he has endured in this race. Dean seems to have driven him round the bend early on, and then Kerry finished himself off with his reactions. But I will not forget what was done to him and who started this.


 
 

[Leilani]

59. I admire John Kerry

and his record and positions.

I think so many people are angry at Bush, & about IWR that Kerry didn't stand a chance.

I think the entire campaign has been more negative than necessary, & at times dirty. This has turned me off, because I don't want a Dem version of Bush.

I support Clark, but I would gladly support Kerry.

[Raya]

62. I Think Kerry won't survive Dean. But seem as great man compared with Guv

[evil_orange_cat]

64. uhmmm Kerry didn't vote for Resolution 1441...

last time I checked, John Kerry wasn't a country... or a UN representative B-)