Another Dean "I AM THE ONLY" mailing hit New Mexico today

[Gloria]

and I got one.

It says:

"Reclaim America with the only candidate who has the courage to be a real Democrat...." in bold caps.

There he goes again...

Sounds pretty divisive to me....and unecessary.

Apparently, his Kucinich ads are being generalized.....

I'm getting fed up with Dean, completely fed up.

[poopyjr]

1. I suggest

going here:

www.clark04.com

[Gloria]

7. I'm already there (I support Clark) ..

eom

[newsguyatl]

174. and what a big surprise THAT is

:eyes:

you sure you're not confusing "fed up" with "angry and bitter"? :shrug:

don't worry, i'd be too if i were a clark supporter... no really, i would... :hi:

[retyred]

180. I see you decided

to expose yourself to the land of DEANile, dean lies and his supporters swear by it, there has never to my knowledge been an admission of guilt by mr. dean or his members regardless of fact.

Getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar would result in it being the jars fault for containing the cookies of his liking.

Best of luck to you, I have been here, done that more times than I care to remember. With dean the lies become truth and the truth becomes irrelevant.


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[BJ]

2. Karl Rove thanks you!

:hi:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BJ]

12. Well, then you're ready for four more years of Bushshit.

Aren't you?

[Nadienne]

14. How can Dean beat Bush?

Please explain Dean's advantage that no other candidate has.

[BJ]

19. Why don't you explain how Kerry can beat Bush?

Or Gephardt? Or John "Milquetoast" Edwards? Or Lieberman?

I personally don't know why Dean's tapped into. I haven't understood it from the beginning and I don't pretend to now. Call it a "gut" feeling.

As far as I'm concerned Dean is "Mr. Zero Chrisma." I can't explain why his supporters though are so ardent.

And my gut also tells me that Messrs Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards, Lieberman and Clark wouldn't even come near beating Bush. They're all too tied to the military-industial complex, nor do I believe any one of them want to fundamentally change the way business is conducted in this country.

[auntpattywatty]

26. Charisma must be in the eye of the beholder, because I've always thought he

exudes charisma

[Nadienne]

37. Are you saying

You support Dean

because of ardent supporters?

Do you think Dean has the best chance?

(By the way, I don't know about Kerry, Edwards, Gephart, or Leiberman... I support Kucinich.)

[BJ]

51. No.

I fully intend on supporting Dennis Kucinich in this month's caucus. However, if there are not enough Kucinich supporters in my precinct to form a viable group I'm throwing in with Dean.

I've read all the candidate's issue statements and, except for Kucinich, there isn't an onion skin's difference between them. However, Kerry, Lieberman, Gephardt and, to a lesser extent, Edwards all represent ares of the country heavily dependent on Defense Department spending. This "war" is about priming the military-industrial complex's money pump.

[ozone_man]

153. Dean has charisma.

I guess you don't know Dean, LOTR.

[bearfartinthewoods]

31. here are two advantages that several candidates have

[BJ]

56. Polls are like assholes.......

...everybody's got one.

Anyway, what exit strategies do any of these young "Scoop" Jacksons proposed to get this country out of Iraq?

Kucinich's has one. Does Kerry? Gephardt? Edwards? Or Lieberman?

[Walt Starr]

128. He's does better than any other candidate against Bush

in the latest poll.

[MODemocrat]

68. Get serious pj

They're scared to death of both Dean and Clark,as they well should be.

[bitchkitty]

108. hahahahaha!

Sure he does, sure.

Rove starts a rumor and the media obligingly spreads it, starting with talk radio, on to TV, and all the while of course dutifully reported on message boards. I think that people who would believe this shit need to get their asses out from in front of the TV and read a book.

[Nadienne]

8. Ah, so unhappiness with Dean

is un-Democratic, just like disagreeing with Bush is unpatriotic?

[BJ]

17. Maybe you got something there?

Maybe it was better before the post-Watergate "reforms" when candidates were selected in smoked-filled backrooms!

Kerry, a Skull and Bones member, Gephardt, Leiberman and to a lesser extent Edwards all are from states heavily dependent on Defense Department largess.

If the Democratic Party doesn't unite behind a single, solid candidate soon, then all the doomdays scenarios will come to fruition.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of all the Kerry crap I get in my mailbox, not to memtion my e-mail, but I don't post it on DU. I toss it, and the Gephardt and the Dean and the Kucinich stuff in the recycle bin.

Lurkers from the oposition just love this kind of thing.

[Nadienne]

22. Hah!

"If the Democratic Party doesn't unite behind a single, solid candidate soon..."

Hurry up and join the bandwagon, eh? Rush people into make a decision? Are you sure you're not from the opposition? Whatever happened to democracy, representatives representing the people? What's the rush?

Besides, if we delay in chosing a nominee, Bush has less time to smear... Not a bad plan, actually.

[BJ]

39. Obviously you aren't old enough to remember McGovern.

Perhaps you don't remember Jimmy Carter either. Or Walter Mondale. Or Michael Dukakis.

"Besides, if we delay in chosing a nominee, Bush has less time to smear... Not a bad plan, actually."

You don't think BushRove's got plenty of smear grease on the rest?

George McGovern might have been a great Democratic president but there was this group running around calling itself "Democrats for Nixon" lead by the bellicose Henry "Scoop" Jackson. Also the defense contracts were coming in so well that the AFL-CIO turned its back on McGovern too.

[Nadienne]

62. You found me out.

And I wasn't much into politics until 4 years ago. But I'm not a fool. I'm not interested in letting fear dictate my actions, at least not at this point. (Lucky Iowa, we're first.)

And I think the media might be more to blame in dividing the party, than any candidate now running.

[BJ]

73. I've been caucusing since 1976.

The first one I went to was in a neighbor's house. My first presidental ballot was cast for George McGovern.

What really p.o.'s me about Kerry is that he was a co-founder of Vets Against the War and he voted for the Iraq War Resolution in 2002. He should know better. It was the bogus Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that sent his skinny, white ass to Vietnam.

[lariokie]

40. Right!

Karl is laughing his elephant off.

[curse10]

3. Is being a real democrat mean being a moderate centrist

that panders to the right?

News to me.

[AntiCoup2K4]

177. Being a real Democrat definitely does NOT mean

having any ties to Skull & Bones and PNAC, the very criminals who have systematically destroyed this country since the 1930's.

[Sagan]

4. I hate it when Dean does this!!

Geez Louise! You'd think the guy was campaigning for something and trying to set himself apart from the guys he's running against. How viscious! How unheard of!!

Well, at least the other candidates aren't all ripping into Dean because he's the frontrunner, like has been done in just about every single primary battle in American history.

[blm]

6. The only Dem candidate who supported illegal wars in Central America

and could not bring himself to denounce Reagan and Bush's illegal wars there as recently as last spring.

[Tinoire]

50. What are you talking about?

War issues are important to me. This is the first I hear of this.

Thanks

[blm]

67. Ah...more of the TRUE Dean.....

How could ANY real Dem have "mixed feelings" about the illegal covert wars of Reagan-Bush?


"Such sentiments have been misinterpreted by assorted Beltway savants as a leftward lurch by Democratic Party activists; it seems more a reaction to the rightward lurch of the Republicans. Dean, who has been mischaracterized as the reincarnation of George McGovern, is certainly no traditional liberal or even a traditional dove. "I told the peace people not to fall in love with me," he told me over breakfast in Manchester, N.H., last week. He said he had opposed Vietnam, but he had supported the first Gulf War, the interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo, and the war in Afghanistan. In the 1980s he had "mixed feelings" about Ronald Reagan's support for the contras in Nicaragua and opposed a unilateral nuclear freeze. "I'm not a pacifist. I believe there are times when pre-emptive force is justified, but there has to be an immediate threat, and there just wasn't in this case."

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,464429,00.html

[maddezmom]

9. it's alright

Lots of our guys and gal have courage to be a "real" democrat. Bet it's just a dig on Clark, because he's running as a democrat after voting for........ fill in the blanks. No biggie. :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Will he ever learn?

I think not. It's obvious that the man has no principles, no compunction about lying. Unfortunately, most Americans who receive that garbage will believe it. :( Shame on Dean, again!

[stickdog]

28. Yes! How dare any candidate try to set himself apart for the field and

promote his strengths!

I mean, what's next? Spin doctors & damage control?

[Bread and Circus]

114. By deception? What has our party come to? Lying is ok?

[maddezmom]

148. Lying is never right

Isn't this why we loathe the repug party? The problem is some people see stretching the truth to their own benefit isn't really lying...it's just a way to get the publics attention. But to be fair, I'm sure if we dig hard enough most of the candidates probably have done it on occasion. Does that mean I think it's right, hell no and every opportunity I have I'll talk about the incidents. But most important ~ I'll remember when I have to place my vote. :)

[mzmolly]

11. I wonder why Mosely Braun and Sharpton

haven't spokent out against this atrocious add? Oh wait, they probably 'get it'.

I really wish Dean would say (I am the only candidate "with a chance in hell at being elected" who has the courage to be a real Democrat) sounds much less divisive.

[Nadienne]

13. Here's a possibility

to explain Mosely-Braun's and Sharpton's silence:

your source of information is biased. Therefore, you're not likely to hear what's really going on.

[no name no slogan]

23. When you get all your news from BlogForAmerica

that's bound to happen :eyes:

[mzmolly]

30. Actually I watch several news sources...

Hey, does Dennis mention Howard Dean in his campaign materials? Just curious :shrug:

I know he openly calls himself "THE ONLY TRUE PROGRESSIVE" in the race, but Sharpton and Braun have yet to take ussue with that? Imagine that. In fact, John Kerry has a much more progressive voting record, and he has not squabbled. Wonder why?

[Green4Dean]

38. Good points

I have heard Dennis say that he is the only candidate that opposed NAFTA...hmmm Gephardt, Braun and sharpton didn't?

I have heard Dennis say he is the only candidate to oppose the Patriot Act...He was ignoring Sharpton and Braun again...and no, he didn't use the word vote which would have been correct...they all do it ...stop whining...

I supported Dennis for a long time and would love to see him win...The problem is he won't and dean is the best hope to beat bush...

[Nadienne]

52. Dennis mention Dean?

Dean would probably accused Dennis of trying to leach popularity off of the "front-runner".

"True progressive" is a subjective argument, meaning "progressive" is determined differently by different people. Is it indeed a fact that Kerry has a much more progressive voting record?

[Green4Dean]

60. well Dennis is more progressive than Kerry...but Sharpton? Braun?

As for the voting records, Kucinich has a weakness on abortion...Kerry on the war...prior to the war vote though Kerry was very liberal...more liberal than dean...I admit that, but Kerry ran a bad campaign and made a mistake voting for the war, and Dennis has not connected with voters like Dean has...

[Tadah]

21. they know about discrimination

and what wealthy white boys do for power

[revcarol]

15. "The only one from a farm state, the only one against the war from

the start,"now "the only candidate who has the courage to be a Democrat,"

Pretty soon his Pinocchio nose will be longer than he is tall...
LIAR.

[stickdog]

33. Among the major candidates, he's not lying.

Once again, I don't agree with the slight of Kucinich because DK is my second favorite.

But among any candidate polling over 3% in any national poll, he's right.

[bearfartinthewoods]

83. don't forget the one from the "democratic wing of the democartic party"

i still gag when i think of Paul's words coming out of his mouth.

in fact, that was the day i said "what the fuck?" for the first time about dean.

[Gloria]

102. Yes, the "democratic wing" bit is a joke....from a guy who had to

depend on Republicans to pass many of his initiatives, over the protests of what, I guess, would be ...."real democrats"???

[LWolf]

16. The courage to be a "real" democrat?

When I look at the other candidates, I see plenty of courage in evidence. They are all "real" democrats. This is a slimy statement.

[ErasureAcer]

18. Can all people upset with Dean

unite against him and support a 3rd party candidate if Dean is the nominee?

I would love that very much so.

Dean is slimier than Donald Rumsfeld's hair.

[BJ]

29. Again, music to Karl Rove's ears.

Or actually balm for his eyes.

Look, as a guy who fully intends casting my lot with Dennis Kucinich in this month's Caucus, I find a statement like that appalling.

I looked over all the candidates' issue statements and I'm more in accord with Kucinich's than with any others. However, if in my prcinct there aren't enough Kucinich supporters to make a viable group, I'm throwing in with Dean.

I suggest you look closely at Kerry and Lieberman especially. Talk about slim. Kerry, who was an important figure in the anti-Vietnam war movement, and I believe a co-founder of Vets Against the War, voted for that hogwash IWR in 2002. It was based on as much garbage as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution of 1964 that sent his skinny, white ass to Vietnam! He should have known better.

[bearfartinthewoods]

92. slimier than Donald Rumsfeld's hair.?????

slimier than Donald Rumsfeld period

[stickdog]

20. How dare Dean try to set himself apart from the other candidates!

That's unheard of in the entire history of political campaigning!

[Tadah]

25. probably not...

probably not... it's distracting everyone and causing them to fight instead of stay focused on their campaigns...

he's getting a rise out of everyone and that's what he wants...

that's what bush does so successfully.

[revcarol]

27. How dare he adopt the sleazy Republican tactic of lying?

He might as well say: "I am the only Democrat who will lie and smear my way into office because this tactic worked so well for Bush against McCain."

[JNelson6563]

34. hatred is unbecoming to you

not a good look for you, not at all.

[Desertrose]

43. just because revcarol is tired of more misleading spin

from supposedly one of our "own"...and she voices that.... and you go after her...again...reflects back onto the candidate unfortunately....

why shouldn't we all be sick to death of it? Is there a rule that says we cannot speak out against the great Dean?

and please...it is not hatred...it is more like disgust & frustration....
we are all still entititled to express our feelings, right?

Peace
DR

[revcarol]

47. I don't hate him. I will vote for him

with clothespinned nose. Dean is the one who is lying, and this is a Republican tactic.He is just at the bottom of my list of candidates, right down there with Lieberman.I am just so disappointed in the man, whom I used to admire and respect. He has morphed into one of our worst candidates.

Will he keep doing anything to win?

[_NorCal_D_]

35. Indeed

Save the lying for the 'compassionate conservatives'. B-)

[stickdog]

42. He's not lying about Kucinich nor smearing him. He's IGNORING him as

irrelevant.

This is what gets your goat, and I can see why. It's very disrepectful.

On the other hand, it's simply the cold hard truth of the matter. Even though DK should be a major candidate, there is no objective measurement of candidate strength that indicates that he'll win a single delegate.

[Desertrose]

53. wait a minute..."ignoring"?

IGNORING?? Honey this is a bit more than ignoring and you know it.... more like misleading? outright lies?

Yes, very disrepectful on Deans part...and the campaign sets the tone for the way the man will be President...doesn't this remind you of what is already in the white house? When do we get a candidate who can take the high road? who can change the way we are doing things here on the last spiral before we go down?

Oh wait- we have one- Dennis Kucinich...and people STILL choose a misleader over truth...that is what scares me more than ever about this country. You have a good guy and you choose the same old....unreal.

Peace
DR

[stickdog]

58. "THE ONLY TRUE PROGRESSIVE CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT"

Whoops.

Try again, DR. I assume you have actually witnessed other political campaigns before this, right?

[Desertrose]

94. please show me where this is stated

I have yet to see "only" anywhere on the website.....

and yes...I have seen a few campaigns...why thanks for asking....

I've seen enough to know that things need to go in a different direction than Dr Dean is taking this one.

Peace
DR

[babzilla]

137. here you go

http://www.kucinich.us/whichway.php

Only Kucinich has a plan for our nation to join other advanced democracies with genuinely universal health coverage --

I'm sure the CMB campaign will be emailing her supporters to complain about this mistatement anytime now.

Which Way for the Democrats?

Federal budget priorities, global trade and criminal justice are not side issues. They are fundamental issues for the Democratic Party. Only a vote for Kucinich in the primaries will be counted as a vote for a Democratic Party with progressive vision and real solutions.

[_NorCal_D_]

32. Set himself apart with deception and

literally bold faced lies? Outrageous.

[stickdog]

48. No. Promoting himself, comparing himself positively to his opposition and

ignoring fringe candidates in doing so.

It's just SOP for any winning political campaign and you know it.

Dean plays to win. Sorry if that game's too tough for you.

[Desertrose]

57. tough isn't the point....more like integrity

and if Dean doesn't show it now- he sure as hell won't show it *if* he gets elected either.

Something you either have or you don't- not a part time thing....


Fringe candidates...hmmpf...by whose definition...the *media*? puhleese...

Peace
DR

[stickdog]

59. "THE ONLY TRUE PROGRESSIVE CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT."

Why are we still even discussing this, DR?

[Desertrose]

95. why are you repeating yourself, stickdog?

Please show me where this is stated-by Dennis or his campaign...not supporters.....

Peace
DR

[stickdog]

124. This wasn't sent out by Dean's campaign, either.

You have no argument here, DR.

http://www.neighborsforpeaceandjustice.org/KucinichIsTheOnly.htm

And I respect you enough to know that you realize this.

Peace.

[MaggieSwanson]

112. promoting himself by demoting others? Nice...

And then whining when they correct him.

[Desertrose]

24. but...but...if we become part of the *Dean collective*....

:eyes:
.....then we will accept all Dean words as the gospel scientific backed by all kindsa facts truth.....
and then, we will understand the meaning of "real Democrat", right??

It would really really suck if Dean, because of his wonderful innovative campaign like no others ever ever before in the known history of all campaigns, won by "misleading" and then lost it to the biggest liar of all ...." * "



ahhh, the irony....

sh*t...its depressing as hell...especially when we could have Dennis Kucinich- an honest caring intelligent courageous progressive......


sigh


Peace
DR

[BJ]

64. Let me ask you, as one Kucinich guy to another.

Are you prepared to throw your vote away or will you support, however tepid, the Democratic Party's eventual nominess?

[Desertrose]

89. Guess I am not ready to look at it that way....

I don't want to have to consider my vote as a throw away. Guess I am one of those who will decide when the time comes, since I don't have to make that choice right now.

I can tell you that I will do everything I can to stop Bush from stealing another 4 years in the WH if that helps.

Will most likely vote the Dem - regardless...not any other option, is there? ...write-in? no point on that really.

Peace
DR

[mzmolly]

36. Does "THE ONLY TRUE PROGRESSIVE CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT"

sound familiar?

It's politics and Dennis plays the game too folks.

[stickdog]

54. OH MY GOD!!! Dennis Kucinich is a politician, too!!!

Thanks, mzmolly.

Well, there goes DK's chances for DU beatification.

[_NorCal_D_]

74. I've searched his website,

and I haven't found a single instance where Kucinich declares himself to be 'the only true progressive choice for President'.

Perhaps you could show me some proof?


http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=THE+ONLY+TRUE+PROGRESSIVE+CHOICE+FOR+PRESIDENT&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt :shrug:

http://www.kucinich.us :shrug:

[Mairead]

81. You beat me to it. I haven't seen that anywhere either

I think we need a cite or a retraction, don't you?

[mzmolly]

84. He must have removed it.

smart move.

However, this discussion is about flyers and info being circulated in general via the campaigns. Search for again, I found a bunch of stuff.

[mzmolly]

91. Oh wait, here it is...

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:kucinich.us+progressive+choice&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N

Stated in several ways as "THE" Progressive Choice. Shouldn't he say "ONE of The Progressive choices for President"?

[_NorCal_D_]

101. Are you referring to this link?

http://www.kucinich.us/endorsements/endorsements/cliff-pearson.php

This Cliff Pearson fellow is merely explaining the reasons that he supports Kucinich.

However the Kucinich campaign does not explicitly proclaim that Kucinich is the only progressive choice or "THE" Progressive Choice for President.

[mzmolly]

104. No

see post 100 for more information. Dennis has those quotes all over his website. People claiming Dennis is the "ONLY" Progressive.

Also read post 100 where Dennis leaves out a few people in his comments.

The Dean campaign did not send out the "I AM THE ONLY" statement as noted above. In fact no one used the words "I am the only" if you'll note:

Here is the quote from AFSCME: "Reclaim America with the only candidate who has the courage to be a real Democrat...."

Dean did not send the letter, nor did his campaign. The word "I" is no where in the original statement that this thread was based on.

[Mairead]

150. That's fairly sad, you know.

There's quite a difference between random people writing in to give their assessment of DK and a mailing by a campaign making some outrageous claim. You do see that, don't you?

[mzmolly]

163. What's sad is that people are saying Dean's campaign mailed

the flyer in question when they did not.

Additionally, Dennis's campaign decides what's on his website. Surely someone who writes "I support Dennis because he will protect me from Space Aliens" would not make the grade.

However, I never took issue with Dennis's campaign website until all this rhetoric started. See post #137 and then some for more contradictions from Dennis Kucinich.

[Mairead]

149. You'll have to narrow it down. It looks to me as though you're pointing

at his supporters saying he's a progressive choice, not at his campaign claiming he's somehow unique in being progressive.

[mzmolly]

157. This thread is about ones supporters making claims

namely the AFSCME. The Dean campaign did not send the flyer in question.

Additionally, if you see post #100 and others here, Dennis himself claims in speeches again and again, to be "the only candidate" to do such and such, while leaving out others in running who share his agenda.

I want to add that Dennis's website is directly associated with his campaign and there are numerous claims made their about DK being the "ONLY" progressive in the race.

Peace M

[mzmolly]

41. BTW, was this sent from the Dean campaign or Dean supporters?

just curious. ;)

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

45. molly

if you have simultaneous messages, don't psot them in a row- go back and edit your original. it seems like a waste of space to devote two consecutive threads to the same topic.

[mzmolly]

99. Are you moderating now?

*

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

140. Nope!

Just trying to keep the thread clean so that dial-up people don't have trouble loading all these threads. :)

[mzmolly]

145. Im dial up people

thanks for your consideration. I am aware of the edit option, and opt to use it generally speaking :)

[Gloria]

55. It came from AFSCME PEOPLE, NM

The people, if they got a tax cut, who will probably lose it if Dean has his plan enacted if elected....

[Green4Dean]

69. then it wasn't approved by the campaign

I have seen Dennis say he was the only candidate to oppose NAFTA and the Patriot Act...Sharpton and Braun would disagree with that...but Dennis was ignoring them...again thats politics...

[Gloria]

77. Then, once again, Dean's tactics are being used....and the campaign

is apparently giving it a wink and a nod. This union endorsed Dean and he gladly accepted it.

It reeks of the Dean style. It is projecting the Dean persona to the public the way Dean wants it projected. Including the big image of Dean in sepia tones on the front. It's the only picture. I don't see any union member with a quotation being used.

It is all Dean's message there....

[revcarol]

87. Gonna call all the AFSCME members here and complain.

I know many of them are supporting other candidates with money, even though Dean got the endorsement.And I'm going to call up the local AFL/CIO organizer and let him know about this demeaning brochure.

Just because the Dean people who have been touting "the only" since the first TV ad against Kucinich try this using a union's money,...doesn't mean they have to get away with it.

[Mairead]

85. Cite, please? Kucinich is very careful about how he phrases things.

So I'd like a cite for any claim that he overstates the case.

[mzmolly]

100. Here you are.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=site%3Akucinich.us+only+progressive&btnG=Google+Search

I've recieved much literature to the effect that Dennis is "The only true progressive in this race" from Kucinich reps in different states.

Edited to add:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=site%3Akucinich.us+only+progressive&btnG=Google+Search


"As a candidate for President, I offer a different vision for America, one which separates me from the other candidates. I am the only candidate who will take this country away from fear and war and tax giveaways, and use America's peace dividend for guaranteed health care for all, ending health care for profit. I am the only candidate who will stop the privatization of social security and bring the retirement age back to 65. As President, I will cancel NAFTA and the WTO,restore our manufacturing jobs, save our family farms, create full employment programs. I will repeal the Patriot Act to regain for all Americans the sacred right of privacy in our homes, our libraries, our schools."(Presidential Debate, ABC News, 5/3/03)

I think he's leaving out a few other candidates here.

[Desertrose]

107. but where does it say your quote.." I am the only progressive...."

quite honestly I don't see any misleading statements or lies.....

I am the only candidate who will take this country away from fear and war and tax giveaways, and use America's peace dividend for guaranteed health care for all, ending health care for profit. I am the only candidate who will stop the privatization of social security and bring the retirement age back to 65.

What is your argument ...?

Peace
DR

[mzmolly]

115. You musn't be familiar with the platforms of the other candidates in the

race?

Additionally, how on earth can he claim to 'remove fear' from the country for gosh sakes!? That's another topic in and of itself though.

However, the claim I noted is all over Dennis's website. He is "THE ONLY, OR THE TRUE, OR "THE" PROGRESSIVE CHOICE.

I assume Dennis has the same standards as those he critiques? I assume his supporters should hold him to those standards. The flyer that started this thread is in no way associated with the Dean campaign. However, Dennis's website is directly associated with his campaign and indeed the claims I noted are made *on the Kucinich website*

[Mairead]

156. Are any of the statements you cite coming from the campaign itself?

I couldn't see any. I see supporters who are not representing the campaign saying he's progressive, but I don't see anyone speaking for the campaign saying anything like what you're claiming. Please be more careful in checking your facts.

[mzmolly]

169. They come from Dennis Kucinich "himself"

again see the posts I referenced. There are more amongst this thread as well.

Also, campaigns are associated with their official websites.

And, the Dean campaign is not associated with the AFSCME.

[_NorCal_D_]

113. In many ways,

these are honest statements, particularly the portions regarding ending health-care for profit, and bringing the retirement age back to 65. Perhaps Sharpton and CMB would also work to achieve these goals, however Kucinich would certainly be the most determined of the three. B-)

[mzmolly]

126. CMB has committed to these goals.

However saying you can 'end fear' is a bit of a stretch, dont-cha think? I mean claiming to "end fear" is quite a promise to keep.

Additionally, Dennis forgets to mention Sharpton/Braun when he calls himself "THE" Anti-War candidate.

[_NorCal_D_]

131. Perhaps.

I'll admit that claiming to end fear is political rhetoric at work. B-)

[mzmolly]

133. I'll admit that I'd vote for Dennis if he could indeed 'end fear'

:) he he

[Mairead]

151. Please check your facts. What you're pointing to and what you're claiming

are two completely different things. Your 'cite' doesn't at all back up your claims!

[mzmolly]

166. Please demand the same from your fellow Kucinich supporters

my 'claim' is demonstrated time and time again on this thread.

Post 100
Post 137
Post 125

etc...

[corporatewhore]

44. Dean sent kerry Flip flops lets send him a copy of Pinnochio

[_NorCal_D_]

49. LOL

Not a bad idea! B-)

[stickdog]

63. "THE ONLY TRUE PROGRESSIVE CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT."

While we're at it, let's send Kucinich a black pot.

[Mairead]

82. Cite, please?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Desertrose]

79. if it has turned in to a flame fest....

you are the one who mentions about all the hate and how we all hate Dean....

I don't hate him...I am not emotionally invested in Dr Dean-period...do I like the way he is campaigning? NO. but I can tell you I would feel the same way about any of the candidates who would do what he does.

What in the world difference does it make if Gloria has disliked Dean for awhile...so frikkin what?? Her post was based on a fact and that is what has your dander up. I am amazed how many Dean supporters can't see the real man through all his hype.

Like I said...unreal.
Maybe you need to take a few deep breaths.....??

Peace
DR

[JNelson6563]

109. yeah that's it

I am a Dean supporter, a supporter of a Democratic candidate, coming to a Democratic discussion board and yet....

I come here to discuss politics and what do I see? Hate-fests directed at a Democratic candidate.

That is damn sad.

You all say you'd vote for Dean if he wins the nom. I cannot imagine loathing someone so much and then bringing myself to vote for him.

Yet, according to you, perhaps it will all make more sense if I just took a few deep breaths.

Whatever.

Julie

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

61. Can't let this go.

I was going to let this thread slide, like I do most Dean threads... but am I the only one who is utterly sick of Dean's constant rhetoric? My candidate is Kerry. Yes ok, I said it. I couldn't watch this one go by without saying something. Now usually I avoid flamefests at all costs but I needed to say this. Dean is not the only one with the "courage to be a real democrat". Up on the podiums during debates I see all fine Democrats, who have all contributed in some way, shape or form to the Democratic Party. For me to sit and watch Howard Dean attack candidates not on their policies or stances on the ISSUES, but on their CHARACTER as a member of our party is disgusting. I find it courageous to even begin the run for the Presidency. For Dean to attack this courage and resolve ALL the candidates share in common is ridiculous.

[stickdog]

70. How in the hell do you think Dean became the frontrunner in this race?

It wasn't through smoke and mirrors.

He stood up for us and said the emperor has no clothes when Saddam's statue was being pulled down and everybody else (save DK & Sharpton who ARE NOT major candidates and didn't get nearly the same attention) was either hiding or kissing Caesar's ring.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

76. The reasons I support Kerry

Aren't really regarding the war. They are regarding the issues I feel strongly about. I was disappointed in IWR but Dean disappointed me in a lot of areas too. We're never going to have a perfect candidate no matter how much the Dean supporters think he is.

[Green4Dean]

71. AFSCME said it not Dean...drop this

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

97. Doesn't matter.

Not as far as I'm concerned. It still echoes clear the mentality of the Dean campaign.

[ErasureAcer]

123. where is Dean coming out against this lie?

AFSCME is freaking huge and people listen to them...they shouldn't be lying on Howard Dean's behalf.

If Dean has objection with this...for the good of his own campaign he should come out against the flyer claiming he is the only true democrat.

[stickdog]

160. 1) Supporters will say supportive things about their candidate.

2) The flyer did not contain the words "only true Democrat." That was disinformation purposefully posted to spread false outrage against Dean.

3) Where is your outrage against the original poster for LYING about this? Have you no integrity?

[Gloria]

172. STICKDOG--I did not use the words "only true Democrat" in my

original post...I used the words from the flyer...to repeat--

"Reclaim America with the only candidate who has the courage to be a real Democrat."

I hope you made a mistake in quoting me. If that is it, I will accept an apology in advance. Otherwise, I will have to assume you are emulating your candidate.

[mzmolly]

175. You said "Another Dean : "I AM THE ONLY" flyer

when the flyer doesn't contain the words in question, nor was it sent from Dean.

[revcarol]

75. Bravo.

This is not just against Kucinich & Clark, but an insult to every candidate.Lieberman who walked for civil rights as a Democrat, Kerry who fought BCCI, Kucinich who walks with labor on the picket line, Edwards who speaks up for the little guy, Sharpton who digs into Bush with pinpoint humor, CMB who fights for women to be in the political arena,Clark who testifies before Congress against the war, and so on.

Courageous Democrats all.

[blm]

93. Plus these GOOD Dems were fighting centrists like Dean for years

and Dean is one of those on the right wing of the party who they had to pull against. NOW he wants to pretend that HE was the one on the left?

What a CROCK. How stupid does he think all of us are? Some of us WERE paying attention the last ten years, Howie.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

96. Yes. Absolutely.

Many of these Dems were working hard fighting some of Dean's more centrist positions. I think some people have forgotten all about that.

[Zomby Woof]

110. you are very wise and perceptive

That is EXACTLY one of the traits that makes Dean abhorrent, is his hypocritical attacks on the Democratic 'purity' of his opponents.

His reputation as a loose cannon and cheap-shot artist is growing each day. I admit I will enjoy it when it bites him on his ass for good, for the sake of the nation, not merely the party.

Great job, Maggie. Wish you would risk getting dirty in here more often. :hi:

[blm]

173. I will be disgusted that it took so long

to bite him in the ass, and that so many issues of the others were dismissed because of Dean's deceptions.

Fucking media hype of the WORST candidate.

[Gloria]

65. Dear Julie....

The words are what came in the mail.

I think it's the same tactic as is being used in NH with Kucinich

I have a right to express my opinion of Dean's tactics.

I have a right to be a Clark supporter.

So, tough. It took me quite awhile to get fed up...so now I am.
Deal with it. Thin skinned Dean supporters seem to abound...sorry, if you're so sensitive. Which is surprising, because the candidate doesn't seem to be...

[Cheswick2.0]

72. Thin skinned? Let's discuss who looks more thin skinned.

The manufactured outrage here is ridiculous.

[KC21304]

88. Yes Gloria, you should be ashamed of yourself. Don't you know we

are all supposed to be helping to raise the Dean supporter's self esteem ? They have been through so much, poor dears.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=49114

[Desertrose]

98. snork...

good one kerryfan
LOL

Peace
DR

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

66. I am glad there are a few men posting here

because this thread is humiliating to me otherwise. It reminds me of the impeachment boards on AOL, where all the women would spend the day screaming "KLINTOON IS A RAPIST!!!!!!! It has been a long time since I saw such anger over nothing.

[Lefta Dissenter]

78. OHmigosh,

who was it in the other lying brochure thread who is obviously a clairvoyant... predicting that the next brochure would claim that Dean is the only Democrat???

Gotta go back to see who that was, and I'm taking that man/woman to Vegas with me!

on edit: Jim4Wes wins the prize! I'm taking that man to Vegas!!! (Ok, so that was a lie, too. It seems to be contagious, I guess... I can't really afford to go to Vegas... but if I could afford to go, I'm sure my husband wouldn't mind my taking you along for good luck :( )

[_NorCal_D_]

80. You bet!

All of the other candidates are Repub-lite. B-)

[TrueAmerican]

86. I am confused?

I thought he said he was a new type of Democrat. And now he is the only true Democrat running?


The spin never stops. I am getting off this ride, I have to throw up. Six Flags need to hire Howard Dean to design some new spin rides.

[lurk_no_more]

90. Another one huh?

The man is a real piece of work. With dean, Nader was right, There is no difference. Pathetic.


” JAFO”

[BootinUp]

103. I think I predicted this yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=49199#50013

[Lefta Dissenter]

105. Jim

If you'll look at #78 above (I think it was 78), I have promised (ok, lied) to take you to Vegas because of that prediction! You're the MAN!!!

[blm]

117. OMG...you DID!

Jim4Wes  (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-01-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
226. Dean is the only major candidate thats a democrat!

I am just predicting the next lie

[ErasureAcer]

118. OMFG!!!! Great call...

holy shit.

wanna go double or nothin? ;)

edit-typo

[Renew Deal]

127. I never thought it would actually happen

:toast:

[_NorCal_D_]

129. What is your next prediction,

oh seer? B-)

[BootinUp]

135. It's becoming clearer :-)

Seriously, anyone can predict Dean's tactics. He's been running a massive misinformation campaign. Expect more of the same. Clark needs to get on the airwaves bigtime. My prediction is that when more people hear Clark, they will come to believe he is the man to be our next President.

:party::party::party:
:toast:

[mzmolly]

136. Predicted what, a thread about Dean based on total mis-information?

interesting, I predicted it too. ;)

[stickdog]

159. Wow! You predicted that another bullshit, deceitful, trumped up post

filled with manufactured outrage against Dean would appear on DU?

And you were right?

Move over, Miss Cleo!

[mzmolly]

106. Gloria your post is misleading at best. Dean did not send this flyer

the AFSCME did. Additionally, you said another "I am the only" in your post when the literature you recieved does not contain these words. Would you mind editing your post to correctly reflect the subject matter.

Thanks :)

[Capn Sunshine]

116. Thank You Molly for pointing this incorrect post out

It saves the national campaign from having to chase down these malicous individuals.

Hopefully the Mods will see the logic in removing this post as it is a clear violation of DU rules.

[molly]

119. Geeeeezzzz - that's NOT ME !!!

my name is Molly - her's is MZmolly - big diff!

[ErasureAcer]

122. hahahaha

not very careful with the details...are they?

[mzmolly]

132. Big diff is right. However being he replied to my post, it's safe to

assume he was directing his comment to me.

I've considered changing my user name so as not to be confused with you. I'm sure you understand ;)

[mzmolly]

120. My pleasure Cap'n

sure made for a fun flame fest though ;) And ... after all, we can't pass those up now can we? :)

[zulchzulu]

121. It's like trusting a sneaky rat

[stickdog]

125. Wow! Was it anything like this webpage?

http://www.neighborsforpeaceandjustice.org/KucinichIsTheOnly.htm

[mzmolly]

130. Seems the "Neighbors for peace and justice" are not concerned

with truth via their flyers. They should really check out the other candidates positions. I think they'd be left with "The only candidate to form a department of peace." ;)

Nice Job SD :yourock:

[Green4Dean]

162. Many of those claims from Neighbors for Peace...are false

I support neighbors for peace...But Sharpton and Braun share many of those positions....ohhhh they are not major though....O8)

[Scott Lee]

134. I really don't see the issue with this one.

I mean, every candidate is going to work the same theme - THEY are the only ones to save the nation, THEY are the only ones to get the country back on track, etc.

Making the claim in regards to being a good "Democrat" is no more horrifying. This is politics.

[Monte Carlo]

139. Of course you wouldn't.

Dean never does a single thing wrong - that's all the other guys' problems.

[mzmolly]

143. Dean is not associated with the flyer in question.

:hi:

[Monte Carlo]

144. He absolutely is.

Unless the union DIDN'T throw their support behind him, that is. I am sick and tired of St. Dean.

[mzmolly]

146. He absolutely isn't ... And I bet your tired of Dean

Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean...

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

165. It's a shame when you have to stoop to slamming one's supporters

because you don't have a case.

[AntiCoup2K4]

179. If you're tired of Dean then...

Maybe you should tell your candidate to quit whining about him constantly? :)

[Monte Carlo]

138. Is Dean lying, or just has no control of his campaign?

Zealotry soon wears thin.

[mzmolly]

141. Neither, the thread is based on misinformation. Deans campaign

has nothing to do with this flyer. The flyer was sent out by AFSCME and didn't contain the words "I AM THE ONLY" any where.

In other words it's flame bait, and it has served it's purpose well.

[Monte Carlo]

142. It's said Dean's a 'real Democrat' which is nonsense.

He's a regular Democrat. Not particularly liberal, but knows EXACTLY what people want to hear.

[mzmolly]

147. Real vs. Regular

hmmmm, interesting "nit pick" Monte. Do call the AFSCME and tell them to correct their flyers immediately.

[Monte Carlo]

154. Words mean things.

And politics tends to nit pick words. Wrong wording leads to wars.

[stickdog]

164. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery.

Subjective Linguistic Nitpicks are Seminally Important.

[stickdog]

155. Dude, even the straws seem to be well outside your grasp on this one. (nt)

[Gloria]

176. MZMOLLY--I am holding the 1 page flyer in my hand and I am quoting

from it---

"Reclaim America with the only only candidate who has the courage to be a
real Democrat."

"The only candidate" refers to whom??? It is Dean, and this flyer uses his terminology, which he has used repeatedly, to promote himself.

This union leadership endorsed Dean. Do you think they made this approach up??? It has Dean's image on it (not a photo, but sepia tone rendition) which takes up one entire side, with the words "Let's reclaim America /Howard Dean for President."

The reverse side says at the top: When Howard Dean Wins/America Wins. etc. The last line is Howard Dean for New Mexico.

This is not a generic union ad urging voters to vote in the Dem caucus. It is a Dean ad. And I do not see a picture of a union member, with a quotation saying "I support Howard Dean."

Without looking at the very small print at the bottom or happening to notice the little return sticker on the envelope, I wouldn't know it was from a union at all.

Because nowhere in the ad body itself is the word UNION mentioned, as in "AFSCME supports Howard Dean."



The " " around my original post title was to indicate a reference to the earlier Kucinich thread which also involved the "only" comments by Dean. Maybe I should have only quoted "only" for you people...Get real, you are obsfucating the real issue here. Which is that Dean is proclaiming the other candidates "non-Democrats." And that's the real issue, not where I put my "" marks in a descriptive title referencing back to previous Dean statements in which he DID say "I am the only..."

[mzmolly]

178. I fail to see the news story here Gloria, and your OP states something .

else. Your OP claims that it says "I AM THE ONLY", it does not.

Also, what on Earth is so interesting/different about the typical piece of campaign literature you received?

As you said the Dean campaign did NOT send this out. Now, what do you think of post # 125. Surely this organization endorsed Kucinich, and they make much more blatent claims then the typical propaganda in the flyer you received from the AFSCME.

We have a real battle ahead, I suggest we spend our time on real issues here?

[revcarol]

158. Why are we being hypocritical here? If we can hold Gephart's campaign

responsible for the Osama ad that the union paid for and an "indpendent" organigation put out, why can't we hold Deans's campaign responsible for this insulting brochure that the union paid for and put out?

But wait, Gephart disowned that other ad(well sorta) and had it pulled.

Will DEAN disown all these brochures from Iowa, NM and NH? And will he send out corrected flyers to all the homes that got the first ones?

Hey, Dean, we're waiting...

[wndycty]

161. Exactly

. . .you can sure as hell bet the Dean campaign approved of the copy. . .I say its not a lie, worst case its not entirely factual. . .but a long way from an inflamatory lie. Given the relationship between Dean and AFSCME he could have rejected it outright.

[stickdog]

167. Reality intrudes on this little festival of manufactured outrage.

http://www.muhajabah.com/muslims4kucinich/archives/007772.php

Rep. Kucinich: I am the only candidate who voted against the war on Iraq and who consistently opposed it. I am the only candidate who sued the President to try to prevent him from going to war without a declaration from Congress. I am the only candidate who will repeal NAFTA and withdraw from the WTO, replacing these agreements that have cost us so many hundreds of thousands of jobs with fair bilateral trade agreements that protect jobs, workers' rights, human rights, and environmental quality principles. I am the only candidate with a single-payer plan that provides every man, woman, and child with comprehensive health coverage from whatever doctors they choose, and does so through a tax on employers that is lower than what employers who now provide coverage pay on average. I am the only candidate who voted against the "PATRIOT Act" and who has introduced a bill to repeal major sections of it. I am the only candidate who will redirect our priorities from war and tax cuts for millionaires to peace and education, including free college tuition. I am the only candidate who will make 20 percent of our energy use renewables rather than fossil fuels by 2010. I am the only candidate who will focus on breaking up monopolies, including agri-business monopolies and media monopolies.

[mzmolly]

170. LOL

Thanks Stickdog. Reality bites at times ey?

:)

[mzmolly]

168. You asked the question. Read post 125 and get back to me with your

answer.

Also, I'd say calling someone a real democrat is a bit different then the Bush/Osama add.

[Rose Siding]

171. The ad ran its course and wasn't pulled

*Tiny fact there, just so it's recognizable in this very bizarre thread.

A union or two that supported gep complained about it, not dick.

To see the osama ad compared with a question about whether "major" should be in the text or the title when the brochure wasn't even sent by Dean is just plain funny.

No one cares about this tea pot tempest except for the fascinating individuals (a few dozen?) right here.

[incapsulated]

181. Is there a "Democrat" gene?

Because then we could do DNA tests on all the candidates before the primaries start and resolve the issue of who is and who isn't from the start. ;)

 
 

[EarlG]

182. Locking

Too many complaints. 180 posts worth of crap. Waste of my time. And before any of you complain, yes, we're biased against your candidate.

Thanks,
EG