The V.P. Game

[question everything]

I know that we have had many threads about this; after all, we DO have a nominee ;-)

I have said this on several of the threads and would like to repeat my thoughts, again, and invite comments, of course.

1. I don't think that choosing a former opponent will work. In recent elections I can recall of only one case where the nominee did so - when Reagan chose papa Bush. I think that this is stale. If he chooses Clark or Edwards, or even Bob Graham, most of the reaction would be hu-hum. This is Kerry's opportunity to excite all of us, to electrify the campaign and choosing someone that no one is thinking about will do it. Remember how Clinton surprised everyone by selecting a fellow southerner Gore, and what a boost the campaign got?

2. I don't think that a two-senator ticket will work. First, it will be bad enough that Kerry's replacement will be a pug (for how long, BTW?) but to lose two seats? OK, not if he chooses Edwards who has already relinquished his seat.. Still, as a long time member of the legislative body Kerry needs to balance the ticket with an executive - from the public or the private sector, of profit or non-profit organization. Had Clark not run in the primaries he could have been a good choice but now...

Clearly the choice of the running mate will be the first demonstration of an executive decision by Kerry. I hope that he grabs our attention and leaves us in awe.

[David Dunham]

1. Edwards will add the most to Kerry's chances.

The press absolutely hates Clark.

[LandOLincoln]

3. The RW shills in the press, you mean? And this is a bad thing how? n/t

[cosmokramer]

16. Bull crap!

That is a pipe-dream!

[Scoopie]

42. I don't

EOM

[LandOLincoln]

2. I'm not sure I understand why you think choosing a former

primary opponent is such a bad idea, especially given the fact that this is anything but a normal election.

I really don't see a downside, given that the former candidates--at least those seriously in the running like Clark and Edwards--have name recognition and thousands of loyal partisans who will work their behinds off for both guys.

Such a choice would only be "ho-hum" IMO if he were to pick someone like Graham or Gephardt.

[salonghorn70]

4. I Will Play The Game

For the sake of the game, let's assume that it will not be anyone who ran in the primaries. That leaves Richardson, Bayh, and Vilsack. I like all three, but I have the feeling that either of the three would not put you in awe. :) So, who are you thinking of?

[question everything]

5. That's the problem. I don't have anyone in mind

But I am thinking that there have to be some good men and women someplace besides the six names that we have been mentioning over and over..

I am thinking of a younger version of that president of the mill factory in Connecticut? or Massachusetts? Walden Mills? The one who gained notoriety for keeping his employees on the payroll and paying their benefits after the factory was destroyed by fire, and rebuilt it... A men of integrity who looked at his employees as assets, not as interchangeable pegs.

I am thinking of someone with a track record of actions, of accomplishments besides debating policies and laws. Someone who has been in the trenches and who knows what "real America" thinks and needs and feels. Sure, Kerry was like that 35 years ago, but since then he was a legislator.

[TexasSissy]

6. I couldn't agree more.

It might end up being one of the former candidates, but there are a lot more possibilities out there than the former candidates.

In the end, we want to win. So I hope the Kerry camp picks someone who helps that goal. I don't claim to know who that someone should be. I'm hoping they know.

I have a feeling it's not going to be one of the former candidates, though. The Kerry camp did a lot of checking out of Gov. Vilsack, I heard. And Kerry owes him a lot because of Iowa. And Americans like governors. And he's not a Washington insider. Sounds like a possibility. And there are others that have been mentioned that I know nothing about who might be good choices.

[JI7]

18. Mark Warner also

[AP]

7. The reason primary opponents aren't chosen is becaue they're losers.

You don't want to pick someone who's on the decline. You want to pick someone whose narrative arc is on the incline.

That's why it wouldn't make sense picking Dean. However, I (obviously) believe Edwards has come out of the primaries with an aura of "winning."

So the typical reason for not picking a primary loser doesn't apply, And, in fact, he's come out with so much heat, if people might think ho hum if Kerry doesn't pick him.

Bill Clinton said that Senators don't do well because they tend not to have a person that's identified with a set of policies. Edwards actually did a remarkable job of establishing a them and a person organized around that theme (class and opportunity) and his Real Solutions was quite a thing. He had that set of policies out much earlier than anyone else, he stuck to them throughout the campaign, and they were so good other candidates copied them.

Because of all this, I think most voters have a much clearer notion of what John Edwards stands for than they do in any other senator except maybe Hilary Clinton who benefits from the presumption that she must believe what her husband believed.

[question everything]

8. I, too, was an Edwards supporter, and a donor and a voter

and, I suppose, spending only six years in the senate he does not have all the track record - good or bad - of voting and changing his mind (we know this means someone is thinking but it is such an easy target for the pubs...)

Still, again, looking at recent history, only one sitting V.P. - papa Bush - went straight to the White House... for one term.

I really would like to see Edwards as a president sometimes in the future; in 2012 he will be younger than what Kerry is now and based on recent history, if he is the V.P. his chances of winning on his own are dim.

[DjTj]

20. ...If not VP...

...what do you imagine Edwards should be doing in 2012 to best position himself to run for President?

I suppose he could run for NC governor in 2008, but I can't see him then running for President rather than re-election in 2012. He could go for Dole's Senate Seat in 2008, but I don't get the impression that he wants back into the Senate. He could hold out for a cabinet post, but I don't see that as being better than VP - how many sitting cabinet members have gone straight to the White House?

If you really think about it, being VP is the absolute best position Edwards can be in come 2012 if he wants to run for President.

... and by the way, the last two sitting VP's have won their elections - Bush in 1988 and Gore in 2000 ... seems like a good track record to me.

[AP]

21. Edwards isn't your typical politician, so I'm not sure how the rules would

apply to him.

I do know that the more people get to know him, the more they like him (as they did with Clinton, but not with Gore, or Bush I).

What Edwards needs to win is to get more people to know him. If he does that by being VP, or by running as VP (if, godforbid, Kerry loses) then he will definitely be way ahead of the game when he heads the ticket.

Also, if I had to pick between a short track record plus a very consistent message, and a long track record with a lot of contradictions, I would take the former. A consistent message and identity is key for a politician.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. It's a good thing

that Clark is not a politician, ex Senator, current Senator, Washington insider and IS Brilliant, an economics major, ex Supreme Allied Commander (lots of foreign policy experience), he's the fastest learner I've ever seen, he's a Southerner and he has an awesome Grassroots following.....HUGE. There's nothing ho hum about Wesley Kanne Clark. He's exactly what Kerry needs to win this election.

[angryinoville]

10. Couldn't agree more...

I don't see it any other way. What's not to like about Clark?

[TLDHOME99]

11. Wes Clark is a fighter -- we need a fighter

But he is also a gentleman. When he conceded the race he graciously endorsed his opponent, Kerry. He campaigns for him now, and has taken on the role of "attack dog," saying things that others are afraid to say about Iraq. The Republicans hate him, because they fear him. They control the press a good bit, that is why the press doesn't like Clark. The people (especially me) LOVE Clark.

I'm not buying your theory that a former opponent won't work. Kerry has made it clear that he is seriously considering all of his former opponents. Why would he do that if he didn't think it would work? Worked for the Repubs.

What he needs is a strong VP who has tasted what the GOP throws at him and wants to fight back. Clark is pissed and fighting back. All of Kerry's other "former opponents" are too wishy washy for me.

And, the man is brilliant. We need a smart, articulate guy to debate Cheney. And we need his foreign policy experience to help clean up the mess in Iraq.

Problem is, does he even want it? I wish I knew.

[Auntie Bush]

12. Welcome aboard 99.

Good to have another smart Clark supporter.

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. Welcome to DU!

It's always nice to have another Clark supporter come aboard...glad you're here! I think Wes DOES want the VP spot and if asked, will accept it. Even if he didn't want it? he would take the job as a "duty" to his country. That's just Wes Clark. Country first.

[TLDHOME99]

14. thanks for the welcome, Incognito and AntiBush

I worked on Clark's campaign as a volunteer here in FL, and I was in on the tail end of the draft movement. I had to stop working on the campaign right before he conceded :cry:, and I was sad that he didn't make it. Love the guy. Can't find a darn thing wrong with him. He's just about perfect.

You are right, incognito, I think even if he didn't want VP he would do it out of duty. I hadn't thought of that before. Good point.

I have never been so obsessed with politics before, mostly because I've never come across a candidate like Clark before. It is all his fault that I spend my days trawling the DU boards now.

I so hope that he gets VP. I felt like he was our only chance as a Presidential candidate. Now I feel like without him on the ticket we still might lose in Nov. I like Kerry, and hope to God he wins in Nov. But I really love Wes Clark. I'd take a bullet for him.

We Clarkies gotta stick together.

:pals:

[Comicstripper]

15. Kerry's Running Mate...

... ought to be Bill Richardson. This one is an absolute no-brainer. First, let's look at the other possibilities:
a) John Edwards- A close second, but looks like a Ken doll.
b) Wes Clark- Talk about puppets. It was great to have him in the primaries, and he may help Kerry win if selected, but I sense ZERO sincerity in that man. I could see him going down in history for some sort of major scandal
c) Dick Gephardt- Zzzzzz....oh, uh, excuse me...

Richardson has EVERYTHING:
1) He's Hispanic. Hispanics are the LARGEST minority in the country, and also one of the ones with the lowest voter turnout. We are talking about literally MILLIONS of disenfranchised voters, all voting Kerry*Richardson 2004. Plus he has a nice, safe-sounding white name.
2) Midwesterner. Said to be the "swing region" this time.
3) International experience (worked with UN) AND Executive experience as Governor of New Mexico (two things Kerry lacks.)
4) He could smush Cheney in a debate
5) Progressive Democrat, though not liberal enough to scare people away.

There are more, but these are the biggest reasons. If we don't get a minority in the White House soon, the Republicans will (or a woman at least). Expect to see Bill Frist run with Elizabeth Dole in 2008, or a similar combination. Plus, he's an all-around good guy.

[faithfulcitizen]

19. Clark is who's puppet?

..."but I sense ZERO sincerity in that man" what???? that's a first! If anything, he can be too candid!

This man put his entire reputation on the line, to speak out against this war when few would and ran for President because we BEGGED him too, even though some of his closest friends urged him not to out of fear he would be smeared relentlessly. Some may argue Clark should not be VP out of lack of experience as an elected official, or whatever, but lacking in sincerity and heart he is not! :grr:

[LandOLincoln]

23. Say whut??

Clark = zero sincerity, and going down in history for a scandal??

Richardson = Midwesterner? Progressive Democrat?

Clark is a Boy Scout and a straight arrow (albeit a bit of a wiseass, bless his heart) and if you sense "zero sincerity" in him please do yourself a favor and stay away from used car lots and real estate salespersons.

Richardson is the son of a California businessman and a Mexico City socialite, grew up in Mexico City and Pasadena, went East to go to school, eventually came back to the West and became a congresscritter from New Mexico, where--after some perambulations in D.C. in various roles, most of which are fairly well known--he now presides as our governor. And while I like the guy and think he's done some good things for this state, there's no way he's a "progressive Democrat." He's a centrist to the bone.

And welcome to the DU, by the way. Hope you aren't too put off by my own wiseass tendencies.

[TLDHOME99]

24. to comicstripper

You don't read much, do you honey?

Since August 2003 I've read everything Clark has written, and everything that was written about him, including the bad stuff by the Republicans.

I've watched and/or read the transcript of every speech, watched and read the transcripts of every debate, and watched and/or read the transcript of every TV appearance he has ever made.

Nowhere in all that watching and reading did I get the impression he was insincere. How did you manage to come up with that adjective? :shrug: Nobody else has. If anything he is too sincere and will go to great lengths to make sure that people understand his point of view.


I'm going to link you an article written by a soldier who served under Clark when he was SACEUR.

http://cris.forclark.com/story/2003/11/18/185117/66

You read that and see if you can still tell me he is insincere.

Your guy Richardson sounds terrific -- is Kerry actually vetting him for VP?

Welcome to DU, by the way

[Jai4WKC08]

29. Clark's problem as a politician...

was that he's too sincere. And too honest and too open. He's learned a lot about being too open, but he's still sincere and honest. And he's busting his ass to get Kerry elected and the pretender out of the White House.

Mario Cuomo said: "Wes Clark is a man of whom you can ask a question, and he will look you directly in the eye, and give you the most truthful and complete answer you can imagine. You will know the absolute truth of the statement as well as the thought process behind the answer. You will have no doubt as to the intellect of the speaker and meaning of the answer to this question....So you can see, as a politician, he has a lot to learn."

MG Bob Scales, a Republican and FAUX news commentator (but someone who's known Clark since their West Point days) said, in reply to some typical sniping by Brit Hume, "Unfair. Again, like I say I've known him all my adult life. He is an individual who is committed to a higher calling... the word patriot only partially describes his commitment to public service. And for as long as I've known him, he's always looked, you know, beyond himself and he's been committed to serving the nation."

[TLDHOME99]

30. (heavy sigh) I know, I know. TOO sincere

As if that should really be a problem. But I guess it was. The man is a saint. O8) A BRILLIANT saint, though. And honest to a fault. There should be room for that in politics. If there isn't we need to make some changes.

I love the guy. I know I'm going to see him serving his country in some way, hopefully as VP. I'd love to see him debate the famous liar Cheney. He'd give him a heart attack for sure, tripping him up in his lies. Maybe that is why things happened the way that they did, because he is a better opponent to Cheney than he would be to Bush. Cheny is the real power in the WH.

I'm gonna hold out hope that he is VP right up until I hear different.

[Jai4WKC08]

34. If there even is a debate

I could see Cheney begging off at the last minute. Health problems. Or some excuse.

Otoh, Cheney may be arrogant enuf he won't realize what he's in for.

[TLDHOME99]

36. oh, they'll debate, if Cheney is still in office, that is

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. I expect a problem with Cheney's

Pacemaker the day before his debate with Wes Clark. or, like you say....his arrogance make take him to the debate with Wes. In that case......Go Wes! Rip him to bits!

[Kahuna]

52. A Wes/Cheney debate would be so delicious. We would expose..

that greedy war mongerer for what he is.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. A **** Star General, Rhodes Scholar, Supreme Allied Commander

is NO ONE'S puppet! (well, maybe Gert's :7 )I beg your pardon. That is one of the most ridiculous comments made toward Wes Clark that I have ever heard. Wes Clark is about the most sincere person you could ever meet! I met him 3 times and I can tell you he is the "real deal"....hardly insincere! Did you ever meet him...in person? in the flesh? If you had, you would never say those things about him.

[Comicstripper]

45. I know, I know

I have not met him, no. I was a big supporter at first, I was only saying he seemed insincere to me. Since my initial post I've clarified and even changed my position a number of times. Clark would be a welcome addition to the Kerry camp.

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. OK.

:7 That's better! LOL! Welcome to DU, BTW. :hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. I was in Nashville, TN the night he lost there.

My 11 year old son and I drove there to help with his Tennessee campaign for 4 days and I must say, it was one of the most depressing nights of our life! We knew that night he was going to quit the race. My son cried himself to sleep....he knows Wes and LOVES him. On the drive home, I heard he had withdrawn from the race. :cry: What a sad time.

The man is incredible. He just has to be our VP...has to be. He's exactly what this country needs in 2004.

You're right, he IS perfect. :loveya:

[Jai4WKC08]

50. I watched his Memphis concession speech on TV

I knew what was coming, knew what it meant, and it was like being kicked in the stomach.

But I still remember his taking the time to comfort the young woman who was crying. Maybe that made it all the harder to watch. She was so many of us.

[JI7]

17. joe lieberman was a surprise choice

i would have much rather had john kerry who most thought it would be. it wouldn't have been a surpirsing choice as lieberman was but i think kerry would have been a far better pick.

dick cheney picking himself for vp was also a surprise pick.

if not a former presidential primary candidate, i think kerr may pick mark warner of virginia.

[joanne]

22. You make a compelling case for Richardson

He would be an excellent choice.

However, I will be pleased with however Kerry does pick, AS LONG AS IT ISNT A REPUBLICAN. :-)

[Comicstripper]

26. About Clark...

OK, maybe I was a little too harsh on him, although I stand by my point. I was a big supporter at first, but the more I read, the less I liked. You even said he "ran for President because we begged him to." His positions are fairly unclear, and while I have plenty of respect for him, I just don't trust him as a politician. I was speaking only about my impressions of the man. That said, I would welcome him as Kerry's running mate, he just wouldn't be my first choice.
Thanks for your warm welcomes, by the way.

[TLDHOME99]

28. you gotta go to the old website, comic

http://clark04.com/issues/

There are dozens of articles re: his stand on all the issues. You MUST start reading, my dear.

Don't make an uninformed decision. If after reading all that stuff you still feel like you don't understand certain things, write him -- I bet he would be happy to tell you all about it, or at least refer you to his articles or speeches on the subject. He's a nice guy.

His new website is:
http://wespac2004.com

That one is the recent stuff he is up to since conceding the primary.

Welcome once again (I'm a newbie too) and happy reading.

:hi:

[Comicstripper]

31. Will Do

Thanks. But please, try to be less patronizing, "my dear."

[TLDHOME99]

37. patronizing, huh?

Nah, I'm from the south, I call everybody honey darlin and dear. Don't mean a thing. Unless you choose to make it mean something.

Darlin!

:hi:

[Scoopie]

54. We also say "sweetie" a lot down here

and it's not meant to be patronizing. It's just a colloquialism - like the first time my northern friend called me a "dude," I was perplexed. LOL!
:)

[Comicstripper]

56. Sweetie...

You are all forgiven!

[TexasSissy]

39. Richardson's out----Monica Lewinsky connection.

Albeit a tenuous one, but still, no one would want that name to come up during the campaign for any reason. Word is that Richardson's out, and I'd guess that's part of the reason.

[question everything]

27. Ooooo Kaaaay....

Who is Mark Warner of Virginia?

[JI7]

33. mark warner is governor of virginia

[louis c]

49. joe lieberman sucks

I'm am so sick of seeing asshole joe on Hannity. Other than that piece of shit dem. sen. from Georgia, is there another Dem. Sen who kisses bush's ass more then asshole joe of Conn.?

[Zynx]

25. Clark, Warner, Breaux, Landrieu all work.

[Comicstripper]

32. Clark (Again)

I like Clark more after looking at his site. He comes across as surprisingly articulate, in contrast to Kerry. Still not perfect, but what are you going to do?
One HUGE benefit of Wes Clark is the Republican factor. Many Republicans are fed up with Bush but wouldn't vote for Kerry. MAYBE, by selecting a former Republican who's a tad more "mainstream" than Kerry as his VP, we can sway some of those disillusioned Republicans to vote blue this time around.
Alright, he is now a close second on my VP list.

[Jai4WKC08]

35. Clark is NOT a "former Republican"

Clark was NEVER a Republican. He was a registered independent. That much is well documented.

Military officers on active duty traditionally don't align with a political party. Sadly, that has changed to a great extent, but Clark was "old school."

[Comicstripper]

38. Good Point

Sorry about that, I was just trying to say he had Republican appeal.

[sparrowhawk]

41. Thanks for giving Clark a second look ...

and welcome to D.U., Comicstripper.:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Pay very close attention to Wes the next time you see him on TV.

I guarantee, he'll impress the heck out of you. He's incredibly smart and he has the chimps #. He minces no words when he speaks against this adminisration. He knows exactly what the cabal is up to and is doing everything in his power to stop them AND help John Kerry at the same time. Please, make it a point to listen to him the next time he is on TV. You'll be VERY impressed. ;)

[TLDHOME99]

53. You have learned your lesson well, Grasshopper

And thanks for taking the trouble to do the research on Clark. I wish all the anti-Clarks would do that.

Clark wasn't really a Republican, I think he was registered independent. Arkansas is not a closed primary state (like Florida) so that left him free to vote however he wanted in the primary.

Don't know what his primary votes were like, but I think he voted for Reagan in the GE, and maybe even Bush Sr. the first time around. After that he voted for Clinton and Gore.

He is a great man. I just hope we get to see him in office. Pay attention to him, because even if he doesn't get VP, this man will do great things.

If he isn't VP he will certainly continue to expose Bush lies and arrogance. He is the Anti-Bush.

Welcome!
:hi:

[Auntie Bush]

58. "He is the Anti-Bush." No I am! LOL

Woo Hoo! I have something in common with Clark.

Sorry...I'm just bored with TV.

[TLDHOME99]

62. Sorry Anti-Bush. How could I leave you out like that?

We need to give you a cape and some tights. You can fly around to all the election booths in Nov. and stop the Bush thugs from interfering with the vote.
:yourock:

[Scoopie]

63. Just to note

As someone who was once in a field that required (well, USED to require) me to be impartial (yes, yes... I was in the media!) and as someone who lives in a state that allows me to forgo registering in ANY party, I can certainly understand Clark's position as remaining an Independent lo those many years.
I have voted for Republicans, myself (and, actually, intend to do so again when Jimmy Duncan Jr., one of the few Republicans with the balls to stand up to the deficit-monster Bush, runs for office again), but I generally stand with the Dems when it comes to social issues and voted for them more often than not for national positions.
I can agree with his appeal to Republicans like those who would follow Duncan or McCain, for example, except that they want the pro-choice part of the plank in tact.
Just call me a "security Mom" with a penchant for the choices that allowed me to BECOME a Mom. :)
And, please, please, please, John Kerry (my second choice, my bud!) put Clark on the ticket for me, for my son and for all those Republicans I know that think Bush is a faux GOPher!

[TLDHOME99]

64. to Scoopie . . .Clark said, "I want everything."

I Want Everything
"I'm an inclusive candidate. I want Democrats. I want Republicans. I want independents. I want people who have never voted before. I want everything." - Gen. Wesley K. Clark, November 23 2003

[TexasSissy]

40. No to Breaux.

He cosponsored the awful Medicare bill that Kerry and Kennedy fought against. Billy Tauzin, also of Louisiana, also worked for the bill and is going to work for big Pharma industry for $2M/year. We just don't know yet what John Breaux got for sponsoring and supporting the big-pharma giveaway bill.

I think Breaux is not a possibility, given the scandal surrounding the Medicare bill.

[Cuban_Liberal]

51. Edwards, Breaux and Richardson.

Any of the 3 would be smart choices, and each would bring something to the table, in terms of EVs, IMO.

[robbedvoter]

55. Clark - not ho-hum. Try as you may to ignore us, there's a draft movement/

dedicated support that would put a lot of energy if our man is on the ticket. Just because the media sez we don't exist doesn't make it so.

[TexasSissy]

59. We noticed, we noticed! Former Clark supporter here.

I don't get it. Why push and push one person in particular, rather than push the one you want but concede that another or others may fulfill the campaign strategy better? I mean, we want to win, right? Kerry's campaign staff has been making fairly good decisions so far, right? So why would you think they'd flub this big decision? Have the Clark supporters lost their objectivity, like some of the other candidates' supporters did during the nomination process? Say it ain't so!

BTW, I'd LOVE for the V.P. to be Clark. But I'm not a campaign strategist, and I recognize that Clark has some flaws that may be a problem, so if Clark is picked, I think that's great. But if someone else is picked (there are other choices out there who have different flaws and so may appeal more to the swing voters we need), that's fine. As long as we win.

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. Clark has flaws?????

You're kidding, right? The man is PERFECT in my eyes. :loveya: :hi:

[faithfulcitizen]

66. I hear what you're sayin' but....

any other person on "the list" has so many more...just don't see anyone who compares to Clark :shrug:

I'll support whomever is picked, but CLARK'S MY MAN! :loveya:

[Comicstripper]

57. Clark for VP !

It seems I've been drafted...
My one warning remains - if we hesitate to begin nominating minority members and women into positions of power, the Republicans will beat us to it. I think Kerry realizes this, and I'm sure he's got a top-notch group of aides telling him the same thing. Expect a record number of women and minority members as well in a Kerry cabinet.

[in_cog_ni_to]

61. Welcome aboard!

Nice to have you! WooHoo! That's so nice to hear.

If Wes Clark has anything to say about women and minorities in positions of power....they will be there. I promise you. His most famous spokesperson, who traveled with him during his campaign, was an African American lady from the military. She served under him and just adores the man and he loves her to death. I wish I could remember her name....nope...it's gone! :) Anyway, Wes Clark will do the right thing and so will John Kerry......we can count on it.

Welcome to the Clarkies! :bounce:

[faithfulcitizen]

65. Now, we'll have to...

teach you the secret handshake! he-he


:yourock: