Interesting argument for Edwards.

[JHBowden]

I am a Wes Clark for VP fan, but something just occurred to me which may be significant. Another DUer mentioned that today's Americans are desperate to feel good about something, practically anything. This supposedly explains Reaganpalooza. Edwards tends to be a "feel good" person who is focused on bringing out the best in us, not the worst. If the assumption that people are fatigued by all of the fearmongering and hate of the last four years has merit, wouldn't a V.P. like Edwards be what people are looking for? This may also explain why he did well in the primaries.

Whaddya think?

[phillybri]

1. I think Edwards fits that criteria perfectly...

He's upbeat, a fresh face...I hope he's the guy!!!

[shraby]

2. And smart.

[BootinUp]

3. This may start another side argument

but my problem with that theory is that Edwards did not do all that well in the primaries. He was second in Iowa because he didn't have to go against Clark, and Dean and Gep had kinda self destructed.

After Iowa, he was neck and neck with Clark for the most part and had the big media mo in his favor. He should have wiped the floor with Clark if he was the clear #2 choice but that is not what happened...IMHO.

edited second paragraph to clarify.

[Kilroy003]

5. At the MN caucuses, Edwards was the topic of conversation

Folks went for Kerry because they figured he stood a better chance of taking down Bu$h. It seemed like most favored Edwards on a personal level.

[Jai4WKC08]

11. Oh that's just plain silly

Some people liked Edwards better than the rest and voted for him. I won't speculate why.

But you have NO basis to assume that anyone who voted for someone other than Edwards really liked Edwards better. There are a WHOLE bunch of people who see Edwards as a smarmy, slick, empty-suit lawyer with not much experience at anything but talking.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. That is something Edwards offers, yes.

And it has value, sure. How much relative to other approaches? Once Clark and Dean were out of the race, the relative spread between Kerry and Edward in most cases increased, not decreased. Kerry generally got a distinct plurality of voters in a multi candidate field, in other words a minority of votes, usually between 35% to 40% of the votes (I'm winging it here, actual results may vary). When the field shrank to essentially Kerry and Edwards, Kerry picked up significantly more of the votes that were freed up than Edwards did.

Clark almost always was at least in double digits while he was running, for example. Most of Clark's votes went to Kerry. I think the message out of the primaries is that America wants seasoned leadership, but not lunatic leadership like Bush.

[loftycity]

6. Edwards attending the Bilderberg event has put me off.

Edward's spoke at the Duluth,MN convention and I thought his speech was great. It's second time I have had the opportunity to shake his hand.
I don't know what to think about Bilderberg.
Now, I see Edwards as scratching his way to the elite top.
And I feel different about the speech he gave, I now feel I was completely buffaloed at the state convention. The Bilderberg group have they ever done anything worthwhile?

[Skwmom]

14. Ding, ding, ding!

This is one of the reasons Rove wants Edwards sooooo bad (even Peggy Noonan was pushing for the phony). Edwards "feel good speeches" will be viewed in a much different light once you learn more about him. It will be so easy to define him as a phony, snakeoil salesmen. Furthermore, it will reinforce the meme that the Democrats talk the phony talk (about caring about the working class and poor) but they sure don't walk the walk. Once they expose Edwards they will try to smear Kerry by association (expect to hear you can tell a lot about a man based on the company he keeps - or in this case the person he picks as a running mate).

[Padraig18]

20. Link, please?

I wasn't aware that 'Rove wants Edwards sooooo bad'. Documentation, please.

[BootinUp]

22. not speaking for skwmom

but there was quite a bit of "talking up Edwards" coming from the right during the primaries, hence the connection to Rove since he does play a huge role in developing strategies for the Republican party. Its not that hard or unreasonable to make the connection, but opnions vary of course.

[Skwmom]

23. Do you watch much tv or listen to the radio?

The corporate controlled press has been rah rah the personal injury attorney for quite some time (even Peggy Noonan). Even Edwards wondered why the big Bush supporters on Imus were talking him up.

[Padraig18]

24. So, there's no link? n/t

[Scoopie]

28. Thank you

for this comment.
I'm glad others are finally seeing this.
And, as far as Bilderberg is concerned, I'm not sure they've done anything worthwhile for people who aren't millionaires (more likely multi-millionaires or billionaires).

[loftycity]

33. That speech at the MN convention now makes me disqusted

When listening and watching Edwards at the convention I had this disgusted feeling "this is not right, he's talking to delegates here not a 5th grade class."
And both times I've heard him and he has the same old line about the Repukes "What planet are these people from?"
John, Why not start talking about the Project for the New American Century or is that to close to the Bliderberg Agenda?
Thanks for your comments everyone....

[AP]

47. Since when? Since 3 hrs ago when you said you liked it?

[loftycity]

60. Bilderberg, Bilderberg and Bilderberg.

[AP]

61. Clinton went. Clinton went. Clinton went.

[Scoopie]

62. So what?

I don't like that Clinton went. I didn't know about it at the time or I would have b*tched, then, too!

Edwards is running on a "populist" message and then he turns around and attends this event? Sounds like a big hypocritical phoney to me.

[loftycity]

65. OK Truce! OK.

AP you made the day!
lofty

[AP]

46. scratching the way to the top so that he can protect people who work for a

living.

John, can I give you boost up to the top? Can I hold the ladder? Hell, stand on my shoulders. Please.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. A P.S. to Clark's campaign

Unless you went out of your way to catch his actual speeches, or read his campaign literature, many people never got how important a part of Clark's campaign his positive vision for America really was. Clark always talked about the need to look forward, not backward, and that he believed our best days as a nation lay ahead of us. He talked extensively about positive core American values, and how they are Democratic values etc.

The media wasn't good at multi tracking Clark, so they picked up on the obvious most important aspect of his appeal, his foreign policy expertise etc. But Clark is a pretty upbeat guy. He certainly isn't all doom and gloom by a long shot.

[Jai4WKC08]

16. Clark can play it either way

He's up-beat and optimistic when he needs to be. Kerry wants him to play bad-cop, he can do that too. Relishes it, to be sure. Hates Bush and what he's doing to the country. But you're right, he IS by nature a positive, forward-looking guy.

Personally, I'm not sure Edwards CAN play bad-cop. Or if he would be willing to, since he no doubt is looking mostly to 2008 or 2012.

Ya know, we've had this discussion before. Even before Clark and Edwards dropped out. About how it's the Presidential nominee who should be the positive, optimistic one, not the VP. I think Kerry may see that--you see very few negative ads from the Kerry campaign. He's letting MoveOn and some of the other anti-Bush outfits take that role. And I think he'll want his VP to as well. Lord knows he's had Clark on the attack for him already.

Speaking of which, wasn't it fun to watch Biden rip Ashcroft yesterday? Loved it.

[BootinUp]

17. Where did you see

Biden ripping Ashcroft, missed that.

[Jai4WKC08]

19. Oops, I guess it was Tuesday

With the 24/7 Gipper-fest going on, I sort of lose track.

But on one of the cable news channels they showed a small part of Ashcroft's testimony before Congress.

From Reuters UK:

"Ashcroft had one of his sharpest exchanges with Senator Joseph Biden, a Democrat from Delaware, who said the U.S. Congress had a right to ensure the administration was not abusing the Constitution or treaties.

" 'There's a reason why we sign these treaties: to protect my son in the military,' Biden said. 'That's why we have these treaties. So when Americans are captured, they are not tortured. That's the reason, in case anybody forgets it.' "

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=526134§ion=news

Biden was really pissed.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. I saw that exchange. The visual was priceless

Biden literally was speaking between gritted teeth, with an icy smile, speaking slowly with pauses between almost every word to let his obviously seething anger sink in. I would pay money to see that scene again in a movie theater.

[Jai4WKC08]

32. MUCH better description than

he was "really pissed."

I don't ever remember seeing Biden go off like that. From what I've read, Durbin launched too, but they didn't show it.

[dwilson]

66. I think Edwards can be pretty mean

when he wants to.

[Jai4WKC08]

67. But will he want to?

There's no doubt that VP is Edwards' means to an end, and his top priority is setting up for his next presidential run. Can you imagine his trying to run that "up-beat, positive, sunshiny" crap next time if he's been Kerry's attack dog this time? I doubt he'd risk it.

[Scoopie]

29. Personal comment to me

from a new media watchdog organization:

We created the site after being frustrated
with how uncritical CNN and the other big US news outlets were in the run up to war in Iraq.

I also noticed the media, as well as the main thrust of the Democratic party, being heavily in favor of John Kerry this past year. From watching the news, it was hard to find any significant coverage of Clark's message.

I don't consider this an affront to Kerry - just proof that there was not proper media coverage of Clark.

The author of the quote is Tom Staculp who runs www.cnnexposed.com

[displacedtexan]

8. Edwards is great, and he could win some Southern states, but...

I'd still like to watch Wes Clark kick Cheney's ass in a VP debate!

[AP]

45. Personal opinion, but I think Edwards was better than Clark in debates.

I think he did a better job of getting accross what he believed in and persuading people that his vision was the best.

I think he'd do pretty well against Cheney.

[Skwmom]

59. Debates?

Many of those so called debates were nothing but attacks against Clark. It's hard to believe Edwards has some great vision when he had a difficult time answering some of the simple questions he was asked in the debates (he's the Democratic version of George Bush).

[MontecitoDem]

9. I think an equal number of folks will

view Edwards as an opportunist, inexperienced and phony. That was my Dad's perspective, and I think he is your typical "swing voter." He is too "light" for these times, I think, and doesn't emphasize Kerry's strengths. Also, the trial lawyer persona is a negative to a number of people, although I know all the Edwards-true-believers see it as a positive. Just one person's opinion!

[Generator]

10. I HATE to say this because

I know how most of despise our whorish press. But I really noticed that the press loved Edwards when he was running. I mean open mouthed awe when he spoke. I was very taken with him as well.

He's boyish compared to Kerry's old man Lincoln style. Hell, I was shocked to hear he's fifty, he looks younger than me-dammit. So maybe he is too pretty and inexperienced looking combined with lack of foreign policy.

And he's staying close to Kerry, working it for Veep.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/06/10/once_a_rival_edwards_staying_close_to_kerry/


Eight years of Kerry, followed by eight years of Edwards.

A girl can dream.

[napi21]

15. Doesn't play to Kerry's strengts? Lawyer's a bad thing?

The best thing a candidate can do is to chose a VP who has the sstrengths that he lacks!

Do you realize that more than 90% of elected officials are LAWYERS!

I think Edwards would be a GREAT choice! Kerry is a good candidate, but he doesn't have the exuberence to rev up a room, and a Country, like Edwards does.

I also saww the poster who said Edwards is inexperienced and all he knows how to do is talk. Well, TALK is all you have in a campaign! The good BSer will win EVERY TIME! JE hasn't made all his money by losing court cases...he's won them! A good lawyer does that by convincing people he's right and the opposition is wrong.

[Darkamber]

21. Thanks for saying that and it will be important in the Senate...

I might remind people that if Kerry is elected and we all believe that he will, he will be facing a GOP controlled House and Senate. Have FP experience is great if you are spending your time out of the US or at the UN. How many times have you seen a VP talking in the UN?

But what Edwards can do for Kerry is talk to other Senators and bring forth Kerry's arguments and help to get some bills pass that might not go but for one vote. He can do it because he is a lawyer and knows the laws and can speak that language. Have you ever read a house bill or listened in on a session?

Edwards can help at home while people like Kerry and Clark can broaden their vision outside. And I do think that Clark will be on Kerry's team.

Edwards is also excellent at fund raising and helping getting more Dem seats this year and in the future...especially in the South.

I wouldn't want Clark spending his time in the Senate or running around doing fundraisers. But Edwards can do this and do it better then the other choices. And he can do it because he one of the best of his prior field as a Lawyer. He didn't pack court rooms with other Trial Lawyers to hear his closing argument because he couldn't make his case. He can and in this case, he would be making Kerry's case and our case. He is the best bet.

[MontecitoDem]

37. if you are comparing fundraising

I'd be curious to hear facts showing Edwards is better at it than Clark. According to opensecrets as of April 30, Edwards had raised only $3 million more than Clark, despite the fact that he was running for months and months before Clark entered the race, and stayed in longer.

facts, please?

[AP]

39. What he's best at is talking people into believing in what he believes in.

[Scoopie]

42. So he's good at brainwashing?

That's what you like?

Hoo-boy. I can see where this is heading. :eyes:

[Padraig18]

43. It's called 'persuasion' n/t

[Scoopie]

64. Well, judging from the contention on this blog

he's not very good at it.
In fact, it was when he opened his mouth that he lost me.
He was second after Kerry (pre-Clark) on my list when I was trying to decide who to back.
Then, he opened his mouth, sounded phoney (I'm from less than 200 miles from his hometown and I don't sound that hick!) and preached populist messages while raking in millions and causing MY kid's insurance premiums to go up.
Nope, sorry. No persuasion here.

[AP]

41. press d/n love him so much. he only got 1/2 to 1/3 the time

the top four candidates got from CNN, MSNBC, FOX et al in just about every debate up to mid December.

To me, they seemed afraid to let Americans get to know him. They really couldn't say anythind bad about him, so they tried not to say anythign at all.

They only place he made progress -- and it was EXPONENTIAL progress -- was in the last three days before every primary. He was often starting very low (in the 10% range) but when people decided to stop listening to national media and start listening to the candidates and to local media, THAT'S when you found that people loved him.

[Kahuna]

12. Well.. As a Clarkie, I'll admit, you have a point.

Kerry will wait as long as he can to get a sense of the mood of the country before he announces. We shall see if this Reagan-mania wears off.

[Jai4WKC08]

13. God I hope not

Kerry had better be thinking of what the mood of the country will be the last week of October, and not what it is whenever he decides not to wait any longer.

If he could put off the convention until Nov 1st, that'd be one thing, but it is when it is and he has to decide by then. But I gotta believe he's smart enough to be thinking ahead.

Fwiw, I think he's already decided and just waiting for the right moment media-wise.

[goodhue]

18. indeed

Edwards would likely bring much-needed Hope and Optimism to the ticket. In order to win the DNC must run a hope-based rather than a fear-based campaign. My problem with ABB all along has been that it is essentially fear-based. IMHO, Edwards is second to only one other democratic candidate in promoting a hopeful vision of one america.

I'll be surprised and disheartened if Edwards is not the VP selection.

[cosmokramer]

25. Doesn't make me feel good...

...and 'feel good' messages are not going to overcome the terror people have over terror. Doesn't work.

[Scoopie]

31. Amen

Kramer.

[GOPBasher]

26. I'm always back and forth between Clark and Edwards.

I can't decide. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

27. That's because they would both make excellent VPs.

Hard to choose, isn't it? :)

[VOX]

35. I've got the same dilemma -- Clark, Edwards; Edwards, Clark, etc.

And yes, it is hard to choose! But either one of these gentlemen would be a fine addition to the ticket.

[Padraig18]

40. I agree.

Which is why I don't understand the acrimony between certain partisans of each. The primaries effectively ended 3 months ago, but some folks just don't seem to be able to 'let go'...

:shrug:

[dogman]

34. That strategy calls for Sharpton!

Haven't you seen his James Brown impression? "Baby I Feel Good".

[Padraig18]

36. Yeah.

That cracked me up. :P

[AP]

38. Edwards's politics couldn't be more different from Reagan's, but if a lot

of American who don't know their left from their right looked at him and thought, "man, that guy makes me feel optimistic the way Reagan did", I would have no problem with that.

And, in fact, I do think that would happen.

[Scoopie]

44. I would be depressed

'coz then I'd have no one to vote for. :(

[napi21]

48. That's exactly what Americans vote for....someone who makes

then geel better. I'm sorry that more people don't pay attention to the issues, but that's just the way it is.

I think a Kerry Edwards ticket could be just the thing to smash the Bush "the world is coming to an end" and "the terrorists are gonna get ya" campaign.

Like it or not, a lot of winning depends on the TV image, and has since the 60's.

Edwards is a very good compliment to Kerry, and I hope that's his choice.

[AP]

49. "you can make people do anything if they're afraid": opening line of F911

trailer.

That's why FDR tried to make people less afraid. He didn't want them to be easily manipulated into giving up their political and economic power.

Hope triumphing over fear is a core requirement for a functioning democracy.

[Nashyra]

50. We can not afford a "Trial Lawyer"

on the ticket. I do not dislike Edwards but there are far too many avenues of attack on Edwards if he were the vp nominee. The repukes will go after "trial lawyers" for every added expense the american people are paying today, health care, malpractice, dr's leaving certain states etc. Also 2 senators is never a good thing, there records are too hard to defend in the sound bite media.

[napi21]

51. Not true. What kind of lawyers do you think make up congress now?

I know your not supposed to ask a question you don't know the answer to, but I don't know this one. I do know most of the House and the Senate are lawyers. Other than the few that might have been Corp. Attorneys, the rest were trial lawyers on one side or the other.

Sure, the opposition would throw daggers at Edwards, but they will do that at any VP candidate. IF they can't find anything real, they'll make something up.

I don't look at the trial lawyer issue as a negative, but as a positive. If you have a good one, he'll win his case!

[MontecitoDem]

52. Although you may not see it as a negative

LOTS of other people do and that is a concern. Besides, it's not just "trial lawyer" it's "personal injury lawyer." YOu are right that lots of politicians are also attorneys, many of them former district attorneys especially. That's a great way to get into local office.

The type of law Edwards practiced and the way he did it will bring positives AND negatives.

Ask any doctor paying malpractice insurance if he has a generally negative or a generally positive view of plaintiffs' personal injury lawyers. Ask virtually any employer - big company or small - the same question about plaintiffs' employment lawyers. For that matter, ask any attorney that ISN'T a plaintiffs' attorney and you'll probably get the same answer: generally negative.

I understand from posters here at DU that he accomplished some wonderful things. SO, this is not to say that Edwards is bad, or that what he does is bad. It is just acknowledging a fact of American attitudes today.

[AP]

63. Kerry was a trial lawyer.

Didn't he do white collar criminal defense work?

When people learn about what Edwards did as a lawyer they like him even more.

He had a 12 point swing from 10 pts down to vicotry in the last weeks of his '98 senate race when Faircloth started talking about his work as a lawyer.

People will not blame lawyers for health care costs. They're going to wish they had a lawyer like Edwards to protect them from too powerful corporations who take their money and ruin their lives just to increase their profits.

Senators tend to have a tough time because it's hard to build up a person built on a set of policies. I think Edwards has done a great job building up a persona based on a set of policies. I could write a three page essay on what he stands for without having to do any research.

[Skwmom]

69. Reagan had that press backing him up.

They won't be doing the same for the personal injury attorney if he's vp.

[deminflorida]

53. People will feel good....

knowing the guy who's No. 2 has the National Security Experience to take over for No. 1 (That's not Edwards...)

Democrats will feel better knowing that Kerry's not handing Karl Rove a can of gasoline to put on Bush's campaign fire...

A Trial Lawyer with no National Security Experience is paramount to a can of gasoline....

[ngGale]

54. Isn't the Senate Intelligence Committee...

regarding national security? Edwards is on that committee.

[dolstein]

55. Kerry can't close the deal on his own -- he needs a relief pitcher

And what better relief pitcher is there on the Democratic bench than John Edwards. Who better to convince swing voters that they need to elect a Democrat than John Edwards, who has been winning these people over his entire life -- first in the courtroom, then on the campaign trail. If independents were allowed to vote in all the primaries, Edwards would likely be the nominee, not Kerry.

[WLKjr]

56. I have said this all along

Edwards has to be and will be VP for Kerry. He brings out the feel good in people, right now in my personal opinion that is what the kerry camp lacks right now. Not questioning thier intent at all because I feel they will rise to the occasion eventually.

Clark never really seemed like vp material to me, ecspecially for Kerry '04. I would love to see him as say, secretary of defense or something, but I could not see him as vp. That's where Edwards comes in. He's a working class Dem to me. I even voted for him in Ohio's Primary when I found out Dean dropped out.

[robbedvoter]

57. I'll feel good with competence at the helm. Phony optimism + inexperience

is a GOP BS - it can only be sold when the media is in your pocket. Edwards had a free ride because the media wanted an easy ride for Dick. Once on the ticket they'll uncover all the Quayle feathers...
democraats had to put their best men - because their candidates actually have to withstand scrutiny. "Who is Itzak Rabin" won't cut it.

[Skwmom]

70. Great post Robbed Voter.

You really nailed it.

[Killarney]

58. I agree

He's an optimist. He makes people feel good. He's a man of the future, not the past (Gephardt).

I think he's going to be the guy.

[AP]

68. A kick for A.S.