McCain -- WTF!!! How many more straws can Kerry pile on?

[Armstead]

If these reports that Kerry asked McCain to be his running mate are true.....&^%&^%(*&&^%$#!!!

It's bad enough that Kerry has denied that he is a liberal; ignored the concerns of the liberal and progressive base and distancerd himself from them while courting the pro-corporate centrists.....

Now he considers McCain for VP????

I hope this news report was in error.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=4&u=/ap/20040612/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_mccain

If true, it makes me wonder how many straws Kerry plans to pile on the back of liberals and progressives. At some point they will start to streain the back of his support....He had better stop taking the support of ABB for granted if he wants to win.

I like McCain. I respect him. He's a decent Republican.He is more reasonable and ethical than most Republicans.

BUT HE'S A HARD CORE REAGAN CONSERVATIVE AND A HAWK! A Kerry/McCain team would havce been a thumb in the nose to every liberal, and would have further blurred the distinctions between the Democrats andf Republicans.

WTF is Kerry thinking? I support him because I am ABB to the max, but this is getting depressing.

[freetobegay]

1. oy vey.

[ezee]

4. Agree wtih you

[LandOLincoln]

2. There are at least 2,375 other threads on this subject.

Surely you could have found at least one of them, instead of starting another?

[Armstead]

6. There weren;t when I posted. Or I missed them...

nt

[Skinner]

3. Here's one theory:

Kerry knew that McCain was not appropriate VP material for a Democratic presidential ticket. But Kerry also knew that McCain would say no if he asked him.

In other words: This could have been a political act. Which is what politicians do -- that's why they're called politicians. :) By publicly reaching across the aisle, Kerry gets to look all bipartisan and moderate to those swing voters out there. And he might even get some of that McCain mojo to rub off on him. But in the end, he's not stuck with a conservative republican on the ticket.

It's a freebie.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. And it makes Rove go ballistic, which may have been Kerry's...

...#1 goal anyway.

[Armstead]

7. I don't think it's politically smart

Bush has made this a contest between himself as a Princiupled Conservativce vs. Liberalism, as exemplified by Kerry.

Bush is simultaneously painting Kerry as a flip-flopper with no principles.

It's an odd, paradoxical strategy on the surface -- but it could be successful.

Independents value principles. The ones who are truly "swing" voters value backbone more than anything. They are less conserned whether it is coinservative or liberal backbone.

They will look at Kerry and wonder if he does have any core principles. If they decide he is a flip flopping liberal, or a flip flopping person with no principles, they'll say "Why bothehr?" and either vote for Bush or stay at home.

IMO the only way Kerry can get out of that box is to be a principled liberal, and stop trying to blur the damn lines. Give the independents a real choice, and defend it. Kwerry doesn't have to go so far as Dennis Kucinich, but a moderate with more elements of DK, and Dean and Wellstone would suffice.

[Skinner]

9. I think independents also value something else...

John McCain.

It's as simple as that. In 2000, they all thought he was Jesus.

[jpgray]

14. Open your eyes--people who like to think themselves 'above' partisanship

LOVE John McCain. Jon Stewart, who is not an ignorant fellow, loves the guy. I know his record and so do you--he's nobody I'd want within twenty miles of our ticket, but the media image of McCain, and his perception among independents is extremely positive. The time to get this upset over this would have been two months ago, since the story hasn't changed much since.

edit: Toned it down--your concerns are perfectly valid, I'm just trying to explain why I don't think they apply to the majority of voters. People do NOT know what McCain is about, they only know his 'straght-shooting, no-nonsense' image.

[Selteri]

12. Political card trick

It's just a political card trick, the rumors were flying heavy last month and now it's been confirmed that the rumor was true.

1 - It looks good for Kerry because if he were claiming to be a hard core Liberal then the Conservative attack dogs would be trying to eat him alive for that. Instead he can say that unlike the republicans that he tried to create a truly bipartisan ticket.

2 - It looks good for McCain who said no to Kerry so that his own Republican Party won't label him as a traitor and he can use it to strengthen his own Presidential bid later down the road if he chooses to run.

3 - It makes whoever Kerry does get as his VP be whoever he wants since he now can claim that he was aiming for a balanced ticket, thus allowing him to have a greater argument against Bush's own ticket.

It's just another case of watch what one hand is doing while the other one hides the quarter.

[BringEmOn]

15. Damn......wimpy Democrats have been reaching across the aisle

ass-first for too long. I don't see how that's appealing to "swing" voters. Why do we put a catcher on the field when we need a fastball pitcher? McCain mojo? Crap! How about some homegrown liberal Democratic mojo...we have plenty of it.

[ibegurpard]

19. Here's another one

Kerry looks like a loser when reports come out like today that imply that McCain was asked but turned him down. McCain gets lots of great PR that helps McCain. The Democrats who thought this was the cat's meow are fools, in my opinion.

[Donna Zen]

26. A free black-eye

The headlines are not reading like a terribly cleaver ploy for Kerry; rather, they read like a rejection of Kerry by McCain. Rejection is the word my paper used. Furthermore, the Kerry campaign has now managed to demean to whomever the vp nod should go. IOW, if it looks like a back fire, smells like a back fire...then just maybe the Dems are sporting a new black-eye after getting to close to the exhaust.

[wurzel]

8. Not all Kerry supporters are "Liberals".

He cannot win with the "Liberal" vote alone. I am a conservative. This is why I despise GWB, his entire administration, and the spineless clowns running Congress. They have conserved nothing. Never again do I want to see any single party, Republican or Democrat, control all four branches of government.

[HooptieWagon]

10. Just a guess

but suppose Kerry really has a cabinet position in mind for McCain, SecDen for example. He can hardly start announcing his cabinet before the convention, and that would really leave McCain hanging in the wind should the unthinkable happen and the Chimp get re-elected. So Kerry inquires about a VP mate, and McCain has previously agreed to turn the spot down. The message is out there for the swing voters. The door is still open for the SecDen when Kerry wins - yet both can deny any deal was struck should Chimp win.

[jfxgillis]

11. WTF? You ask? You answered your question ...

Kerry in concerned with this:

I support him because I am ABB to the max,

but not with this:

but this is getting depressing.

As well should he be. The feeling you have when you cast your ballot has no bearing on the vote totals.

[Armstead]

18. Feelings matter

"As well should he be. The feeling you have when you cast your ballot has no bearing on the vote totals."

The feeling people have before they cast their ballots does have a bearing on the vote totals.

Kerry needs tro both rally the faithful, and get the "swing" voters to make the effort to get out and vote for him.

If too many of his automatic supporters are depressed by his candidacy, they are not going to inject the enthusiasm into the body politic that is required.

Anotehgr way of putting it is that negative emotions (ABB) will motivate the faithful to vote for himn, but it's not enough to generate solid momentum, or to convince those who do not think Bush's re-election would be a disaster....That requires something positive.

[jfxgillis]

25. Look. This is excruciatingly obvious:

Kerry needs to both rally the faithful, and get the "swing" voters to make the effort to get out and vote for him.

The question is how to do that so as to maximize his vote total.

Tending to one's base and appealing to swing voters are frequently contradictory tasks that employ mutually exclusive tactics.

Kerry cares NOTHING about what I think because nothing short of my death will prevent me from voting for Kerry this November. He cares very little about what you think because you will probably cast an ABB vote. If he moves TOO far to appeal to swing voters that he alienates your vote, then he has a problem. Only at that point will the way you "feel" matter.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. D'OH

Yes feelings do matter. They have everything to do with vote totals. Progressives/liberals are on the fence with Kerry as it is and you can't get people to the polls in great numbers when you piss them off often enough.
Kerry is playing a very stupid game.

[jfxgillis]

24. DOH yourself. I do not think that is the case ...

... But if it is the case, or becomes the case, then Kerry will have to modify his approach.

Meanwhile, the pencil, stylus, lever or touchscreen you use to cast a ballot does not measure feelings.

[JI7]

13. this is why Kerry reaches out to the middle, those on the left jump at

every little thing. it's already been posted that kerry never offered mccain the vp position. he only asked if he would ever consider if offered. since they are friends and talk a lot it's not surprising they would talk about this.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. What's A Congressional Record Next To Campaign Rhetoric?

Seriously, you are far too invested in labels. Kerry's record shows him to be the most liberal President since FDR, but hey, what's that compared to campaign speculation designed to appeal to swing voters?

[Armstead]

17. Kerry today vs. the old Kerrys

Labels do matter. Not just in this particular campaign, but in shgifting poiliutics back to a true center (where conservative is conservative and liberal is liberal, and they both slug it out on equal terms.)

Kerry's record can be interpreted in many ways. It's not consistently anything.

That's his biggest problem. Not that he's a "liberal" but that he's a flip-flopper.

It's a smart move by the GOP to box him in that way. IMO

Rightly or wrongly he's got to have a definition, if he is going to appeal to those who are not automatically ABB.

If there is anything to be learned from all the Reagan brouhaha this week is that people want strength and clarity. Paradoxically, those coveted independent voters can go either way -- but it matters who seems clearest and most principled.

(Moderate liberal is different than mushy centrist.)

It's a tricky balancing act I realize, but mushy isn't the way to accomplish that.

[dusty64]

20. I'd like to think this

was just an idea put out there to drive rove nuts and possibly appeal to moderates. I'd like to think it was never a serious plan. Kerry definitely seems to believe he has the left of center vote in the bag and is completely willing to cut us loose in the campaign thinking we have no other choice than to stick with him. While that may be true for the most part, they seem to have completely forgotten the fact that nader is running and their fingers in the eyes of the Left may drive many over to his side.

[liberalmike27]

22. Hurts Him

If this is true, and I take everything I hear these days with a grain of salt, then I think this hurts both Kerry and the Democrats politically. Not only that, but it strengthens the Green, and Independent threat of Ralph Nader. It further proves that there is very little difference between the Democrats and Republicans.

Never am I more convinced that Democrats as a whole have sold 40 or 50 million of us down the drain, the working and unemployed poor. They no longer fight for tried and true democratic values, and it is a sad thing when the Democrat asks a known Republican to be the Vice President, for whatever reason. He should be trying to reinterest the 50 million ignored, uninsured, and poor, but like the mistakes of the past, he simply ignores them.

I'm so sick of Democrats who act like Republicans. I used to speculate that Kerry's Skull and Bones duties might make him throw this election. It would seem, with each step he takes, that what I once thought was a possibility, is becoming more of a reality.

[Cocoa]

23. I question your reasoning skills

it makes no sense to get so upset about this, especially since you don't know what the fuck happened.

Unless, of course, you're intent on finding something to be upset with Kerry about, in which case, have fun.