Dean under consideration for VP

[Carolab]

For those of you who didn't know, there is a website designed to help draft Dean for VP.

They report today: "We're having an impact! Communication with someone who prefers to remain anonymous inside the Kerry campaign tells us that Dean is under consideration -- because Nader is polling double digits in some battleground states. Recent Fox and Zogby polls showed a Kerry/ Dean ticket taking votes away from both Nader AND Bush. Momentum is building, but we can't stop now."

More info at the website: http://www.draftdeanforvp.org.

[jpgray]

1. Won't happen

Strategically unsound, and Dean would be a poor ideological fit for Kerry's campaign thus far, though I would appreciate Kerry having the chance to adopt a few of the man's better stances, and of course the excitement Dean brings in general wouldn't hurt. :D

[expatriot]

13. I am a Deaniac and tend to agree

nt

[Tight_rope]

2. YESS! Dean for VP! n/t

[delhurgo]

3. He's not even on the list.

Its completely out of the question: he's too identified with the far-left; he doesn't bring anything geographically; and then there's 'the scream'. I know it was overblown, but it would cause people to question Kerry's judgement.

I did see a poll tho recently, on Fox, that showed a Kerry/Dean ticket would win by one point. But the same poll showed a Kerry/Edwards ticket winning by around 7.

[theivoryqueen]

6. and a Kerry/McCain ticket by 12 - but it's OUR party, yes?

not poooolsters. Beware the shallow end..............

[delhurgo]

14. The talk about McCain is just politics;

its Kerry attaching himself to McCain because of how popular he is, and because it makes Kerry look bi-partisan - and more centrist. He's not serious about having McCain as vp; he knows it won't happen.

The talk about Dean, I expect, is the same. The Kerry campaign is throwing the Deaniacs a bone, but he isn't serious about choosing him as veep. Thank god.

[JI7]

7. there are others on the list we don't know about

while the campaigned has confirmed a few they are looking at there are some others that have not been revealed. this doesn't mean dean is also on the list. it just means there are others besides clark, edwards,gephardt and vilsack on the list.

[delhurgo]

15. I think its pretty clear who's on the list.

Those you mentioned above, plus Gov Richardson. There could be a surprise, but it wouldn't be someone like Dean - for all the reasons I mentioned above.

[Carolab]

8. Excuse me, but

I haven't seen John Edwards building a powerful grassroots organization since he suspended HIS campaign.

[JI7]

11. Edwards is still Senator and Kerry is asking Edwards to do a lot of things

remember that edwards is still senator so he isn't very free. but even with that he is still doing a lot of things that kerry is asking him to. much of it involves going around the country campaigning in various states.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. Edwards isn't really a senator anymore

He's a lame duck and thus doesn't really bother doing work in the senate. I'm sure that he shows up for important votes but other than that, he spends most of his time working for Kerry.

[delhurgo]

16. I wonder how much of a grassroots org he actually has.

They didn't turn out for the primaries did they? Don't get me wrong I like Dean. But I assure you, it aint gonna happen.

[madfloridian]

22. What primaries? Iowa picked Kerry.

I voted for Dean in our Florida primary, but it did not count because he was out of the race. The states Dean would have carried, many of them larger, never had the chance to vote. Like CA.

Just to let you know, DFA meet-ups are over 165,000 and growing again. Mailing list is over 500,000.

[MontecitoDem]

25. I attend the DFA meetups!

We actually renamed ours here - it's the Progressive Coalition. And we are not all "Dean people." Lots of us (Dean, Kucinich and Clark people) wanted to join together and we did it somewhat under DFA - that doesn't mean we support him for VP!

[no name no slogan]

26. Have you heard about ProgressiveVote.org?

DFA is mostly organizing around candidates (so far), and PV is working on influencing the Democratic Party from within.

PV was put together by Kevn Spidel, who worked for DK. It's an organization of progressive voters all across the nation from various constituencies: Dean, Kucinich, Greens, ex-Naderites, etc. Their main effort is starting/working with progressive caucuses all around the nation to push for progressive issues in the Democratic party.

The website (www.progressivevote.org) has some interesting stuff about what's happening. Worth a look, IMHO.

[MontecitoDem]

31. Yes, thanks!

We are doing this on our own. Our last meetup we split in discussion groups to cover this very issue.

[madfloridian]

27. Why not have your own meet-ups? Ours grew here because of Dean

and his speeches and activism. I have nothing against the others, but why not form your own groups proudly?

[MontecitoDem]

30. Umm, we did "proudly" form a group.

Progressives here who supported various candidates (many from Dean, but others from Clark, Kucinich, Nader and greens) decided that we could accomplish a lot by working together rather than maintaining the divisiveness of the primaries which is still so evident at DU. We did it before DFA formed, and we are doing great things in our community.

Last thing we need is one more group! We need to coalesce, not keep splitting ourselves apart.

[madfloridian]

32. I agree that we need lots of activists.

My point is that you should not form under the DFA name, as that is associated with Dean, not the others. Kerry supporters here in our area tried to take over our Meet-up, thinking we were going away. That is what I meant.

The more activists the better, but if it is under the DFA name it should adhere to a certain loyalty standard. As far as the ones you mention, I like them all.

There are so many guidelines to follow for PACs like DFA. If we truly were to unite, they should all link to each other's sites. That makes more numbers.

Remember, a lot of Dean supporters still remember the vote switching in IA....though we are working on forgetting. Kucinich, an avid anti-Iraq war person sent his delegates to Edwards, who proudly voted for the war. It should be over, but I see some anger on the blog still about this.

[MontecitoDem]

35. I'm not worried about it and you shouldn't either.

We formed our group the month that Dean and Clark dropped out, well before DFA arrived. We decided that the two meetups should become one because we had the same agenda, continuing our organizations to create positive progressive change in our community. We named our group at that time, and many others have joined including every local progressive organization, plus Greens, Kucinich, Nader supporters, and some Edwards and Kerry people. We usually have 50 or more people attending each month.

We are not a Pac - we don't raise money or do anything like that. We don't use the DFA name for anything, except that the DFA meetup is planned for the same night, and our meeting basically replaces it. We occasionally use some DFA ideas for our agenda, but more often that not we already have the entire agenda filled.

We are not a Kerry group. There is a separate Kerry meetup.
I'm not the least concerned that we are doing anything wrong. We are local activists coming together to make positive change. I have no idea what you mean about "adhering to a certain loyalty standard." It seems kind of offensive, but maybe I just don't understand what you are getting at.

I also don't understand this: "There are so many guidelines to follow for PACs like DFA. If we truly were to unite, they should all link to each other's sites. That makes more numbers." ????

Personally, I think each of the candidates we supported would be proud of our efforts.

I'm sorry you feel bitter. Coming together as a group is the best way to get over it. We have lots of tension at our meetings, especially with the Nader people - but we treat each other respectfully and understand that overall we have the same goals for our country. Healthcare for all. Good jobs at good pay. Affordable housing. A clean environment. A safe and peaceful nation and world.

It's time to Move on!

[madfloridian]

39. No, I just wanted clarification. Thanks.

That is all I asked for. You just had to add the Move on. That was not my issue.

I have never treated anyone here other than respectfully. I even used your quote that you renamed. I have NO gripes with many progressive groups working together, I just had a gripe with your statement about renaming.

I think it was uncalled for to add the "move on." That is just as distasteful to me as Get over it, quit crying in your tea cups, etc.

Of course we have moved on....to supporting the candidates you mentioned. Since the 2000 election, I get almost livid when I hear words like move on in that context or get a life. or get over it.

[MontecitoDem]

41. Didn't mean to offend

Here's what I said:

"I'm sorry you feel bitter. Coming together as a group is the best way to get over it. We have lots of tension at our meetings, especially with the Nader people - but we treat each other respectfully and understand that overall we have the same goals for our country. Healthcare for all. Good jobs at good pay. Affordable housing. A clean environment. A safe and peaceful nation and world.

It's time to Move on!"


I was talking about how we are all trying to get past this stuff and work together, including us with the Nader people. I wasn't trying to belittle you or bring up something that makes you "livid." I am not interested in separating progressives from one another and that was my point. I also never said you were acting in a disrespectful way. I'm a bit confused because instead of focusing on the substance of what I wrote, you seem to be taking things I said defensively. I hope that's not what's happening, because it certainly isn't my intention.

Anyway, I'm off to play with the kids. Peace and good luck. Hope we can connect again.


:)

[madfloridian]

33. You *renamed* DFA meet-up to Progressive Coalition? Is that ok?

QUOTE: "We actually renamed ours here - it's the Progressive Coalition. And we are not all "Dean people." Lots of us (Dean, Kucinich and Clark people) wanted to join together and we did it somewhat under DFA - that doesn't mean we support him for VP!

Should you be renaming the DFA meet-ups to become your own? I would think that should be cleared with DFA and Meet-up? Or am I reading this wrong?

Dean specifically requested that the meet-ups continue, changing the name from Dean to DFA. This is in writing. How could you just change the name of your DFA group?

[MontecitoDem]

37. You and I seem to have a different understanding of "grassroots"

we are do-it-yourself here in SB, and accomplishing a lot. We don't need to "clear it" with anybody, as far as I know.

[madfloridian]

38. You said you "changed" the name of the DFA meet-up.

That is my issue. Not the activism progressive part, but that the DFA was supposed to remain as that name.

It was the "changing" part that bothered me. Dean specifically requested that the Dean meet-ups continue as DFA groups.

[MontecitoDem]

42. I guess my point here is

it doesn't matter to me what Dean requested. We as a community are not taking marching orders from any one campaign or group. We are a coalition and charting our own course. We use the DFA meetup site to help keep people connected. That's all.

[madfloridian]

43. "It does not matter to me what Dean requested" you said.

That is really a shame. I had heard these things were happening.

Why didn't the Clark people continue theirs, the Kunicich continue theirs?

Should you being using the DFA name if you don't care what Dean requested?? I really mean that.

If you were called a Dean Meet-up, and you changed it to another name than DFA.....I find that objectionable.

It is like the Kerry folks here asked us why we were still meeting, and a couple made an effort to turn our group into a Kerry meet-up. It did not succeed.

No one can stop you from doing it, I guess, but I think it is wrong.

[MontecitoDem]

44. "That is really a shame" - Aargh!

You said - "That is really a shame. I had heard these things were happening. Why didn't the Clark people continue theirs, the Kunicich continue theirs?"

Huh? Yeah, That's really a shame that we all decided to work together on progressive causes that we all care about, cause God knows you can accomplish more by continuing incessant fighting about what did or didn't happen during the primary than choosing to work together and get shit done. !

You know, it seems you'd rather see us all continue a knock down drag out than work together. Whatever. I am convinced we are doing more for progressive causes by combining than any one group could do by itself. None of our hard-core Dean folks have the slightest problem with it. The organizers of the DFA we met in LA and the 21st Century Dems were impressed and pleased with our group and all we've accomplished.

Be upset with it - that is your choice of course. But it's counterproductive and clearly misses the point of forming a coalition.

And not only do we have Clark, Dean and Kucinich people. We have Nader people, we have "Healthcare for All", we have "Veterans for Peace", the People's Coalition, DemWomen, SB Democratic Service Club, SB Women's Political Committee, SB County Action Network, the Green party, the list goes on.

How you see this as "a shame" is both mystifying and ridiculous to me. Isn't this what we should all be doing??!!

Sorry you think the words of Howard Dean are commandments, I see them differently. There's no reason he would object to what we are doing, it is very much in the spirit of DFA.

[madfloridian]

45. We have those people in our group, but we kept the name.

You act as those you feel I think Howard Dean is god, with your mention of commandments.

No, that is our granddaughters who think that.

My issue is with the name change. Not with what you do or who you do it with.

[MontecitoDem]

46. Great.

But Clark and Kucinich people don't want to be under the Dean monikor, and why should they? It changes nothing about what we do.

[madfloridian]

47. Then they should NOT be under the "Dean moniker."

I was concerned that the Dean meet-up name was changed to something other than DFA. It is a legit concern. Perhaps a new group entirely could have been formed with the new name.

[MontecitoDem]

48. I give up!

We formed our group **before** DFA existed. We are not just Dean people. We call ourselves the SB Progressive Coalition. What else do you want?!

[jsw_81]

50. Nonsense

The fact is that Dean was getting trounced from coast to coast, even in liberal states that he was supposed to win like Washington and Wisconsin. It's silly to say that Dean would have won larger states like California had he stayed in the race.

[fujiyama]

4. I would have no problem

with Dean as VP. It would make a very interesting ticket to say the least. However I don't think he's seriously being considered. Dean's main problem isn't necessarily which state he's from (neighboring state with no chance of going to Bush), but the fact that he's already been defined by the media (however untrue as it may be), as an angry far left liberal.

Nader isn't polling double digits anywhere in any poll I've seen -- and I've been keeping track of polls regularly. That's not to brush the threat from him aside -- even a 1-2% Nader vote could lose Kerry a state as we know all too well from '00.

I think this is mainly the Kerry campaign trying to make it seem that they are still very opent to different possibilities and choices -- a way of trying to get Dean supporters on board.

[theivoryqueen]

5. Okay - this actually fills my heart with hope

I had a mixed reaction to early democratic candidates... liked Kerry, grew to love Dean. It would be fun - more - inspiring! Forget all the naysayers and critics who would be kingmakers. This would be a positive step forward for a progressive democratic agenda. Plus - it would be extraordinarily engaging!

[tritsofme]

9. No he's not.

Its really as simple as that.

[Carolab]

10. How do you know? n/t

[tritsofme]

18. Because I think Kerry wants to win... nt

[silverweb]

12. Fantastic!

Petition signed and forwarded. This is a ticket that could generate some real excitement!

:bounce:

[Moderator]

17. moving to General Discussion: Campaign 2004

This is not LBN, although it is a legitimate topic of interest.

[displacedtexan]

19. domain name not registered

If you want to know who's NOT being considered, check out the domain name combinations, which have been registered and which ones haven't been.

No combination of "kerrydean" has been registered as of yesterday; however, every .com, .net, and .org combination has been registered for:
kerryedwards
kerryvilsak
kerryclark
kerrygephardt

[bklyncowgirl]

20. Very Interesting displaced Texan! I would never have thought of that.

As someone who supported both Kerry and Dean in the early primaries, I would love to see this ticket--but it has to make strategic sense. In addition Dean would have to be able to work well with Kerry and do the job once in office.

If it's true that internal polls are showing Nader polling high in bettleground states, there's some strategic justification to choosing Dean if he can pull liberal independents away from Nader. The Bush machine will smear him like crazy but that's true of whoever the Democrats put in the #2 spot.

As far as being able to work with Kerry, the two seem to have kissed and made up and some reports have them even becoming friends. Politically they're not too far apart. Whether the outspoken Dr. Dean is right for the #2 spot, who knows. Since withdrawing, he seems to have had no problem minimizing differences with Kerry.

I doubt it's gonna happen but could be interesting.

[cosmokramer]

21. Pure fantasy!

You can't convince me that you actually believe this? Come on, these are the same people who called Dean's confederate flag flap a "brilliant Clintonesque triangulation".

It is simply fantasy--he isn't even being considered.

[zulchzulu]

23. Nope...He'll be Sec. of Health/Human Services

VP it won't be...

[Cheswick2.0]

24. yup

It may not happen, but not choosing him would be just one more dumb move by Kerry.

[MaineDem]

28. I'll be shocked if this ever happens

First of all, two people from new England? Nope, never happen.

[Nazgul35]

29. the south isn't politically mature for this yet...

give them time....

After all, northerners voted for two guys from the south....twice....

But forget about southerners voting for two guys from New England....they had one party rule for too long...we need to give them time to get use to the idea of democracy....once they understand that we can offer such a ticket...hey, maybe even add a mnority or two to the ticket...

yeah....at the rate we're going, that should be about 2048 or so....

[madfloridian]

34. Some of us here are very intelligent and mature.

.

[ibegurpard]

36. I would lose a lot of respect for Dean if he ran with Kerry

It would indicate to me that his position of trying to fight the power brokers and moneyed interests in the Democratic Party was just an act. I prefer that he continue to put his efforts into the organization he started to try to replace the "Lieberman-liberals" in the party, unencumbered by being too closely tied to someone who feels they can't speak out because of electability.

[jsw_81]

49. No chance

Putting Dean on the ticket would be by far the biggest mistake of Kerry's career. Not only would it doom Kerry to a landslide defeat (think 1972), it would also cost us a few dozen House and Senate seats, too.

The best Dean can hope for this cycle is Surgeon General or Sec. of HHS in a Kerry administration. And that ain't bad at all.

[dusty64]

51. Dean was my first choice

and I hope there is a bright future for him, but two Democrats from New England would sadly be an electoral disaster. Like it or not, regional bigotry would keep this from happening.