Calling all rebuttal experts. Help me smack the critic.

[funky_bug]

This was published in the opinion section of my local paper. After picking up my jaw, I had to admit that it's quite a shock to me:

"When will somebody ask John Kerry how he is going to bring back all those jobs that left the United States? He could start by bringing back the 59 Heinz operations they built offshore. Maybe Mrs. Heinz-Kerry neglected to give him that information before he made that TV ad."

So, obviously Rush is busy trying to get people to forget all he's forgotten regarding family values, and this is the new talking point. However, I can't respond because I can't find this info anywhere. PLEASE HELP! We are a predominantly red county in FLORIDA, but a lot of my republican co-workers have expressed disgust with Bush, and I want to counter this to keep them on track.

[katusha]

1. bush call centers in india

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FE19Df04.html

Indians are contributing handsomely to Bush's campaign funds while, until recently, there was a band of more than 100 dedicated call-center executives who were handling Bush's fundraising and vote-seeking campaign for the Republican Party from the outsourcing hubs of Noida and Gurgaon, which adjoin the national capital Delhi.

[KC21304]

2. Go to Snopes. com. The Heinz family hasn't run the Heinz company

for many years. They have been an international company for over 100 years. This idiot obviously does not know the difference between an international company and someone who incorporates off shore to avoid taxes.


edited spelling

[funky_bug]

4. Snopes rocks

but it's blocked by my employer. I will check it out when I get home tonight. Thanks for the info! I knew this was one of those ditto-head bits.

[Warpy]

12. Not only that, but check out their foreign subsidiaries

You won't recognize most of the brands they produce. They're obviously owned by Heinz, Inc. but geared toward consumption in the region they're located in, not consumption by the US market.

The difference in other "offshoring" is that US jobs are being exported but the main market for the goods and services remains the US. This is the part that is unsustainable, not the purchase of foreign subsidiaries that create products for the foreign market.

[Richardo]

3. Easy: Heinz offshore locations do not send stuff back to the US

It's for "local" consumption in that country.

It's perfectly reasonable for a food manufacturer to make products for a foreign market in that market with domestic ingredients. Indians know how their curry should taste, for example.

[NMDemDist2]

5. sigh

Heinz didn't "offshore" any jobs, they make their products in many countries for the local markets

and even if Heinz did, Mrs. Kerry has no say in the day to day running of the company.

see the facts here

http://heinz.com/jsp/presidential_statement.pdf

[Monte Carlo]

6. They're counting all international business as offshore...

... in other words, they're counting all the factories in other countries that make the ketchup for those other countries as offshore... which they are, but its a word game.

[tandot]

7. LIES, LIES, LIES ...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp

<snip>
the Heinz family trust which Mrs. Kerry inherited sold most of its shares of Heinz stock back in 1995 and currently holds less than a 4% interest in the company
<snip>
Heinz is a U.S.-based global business which sells its products in dozens of other countries, and like other food companies it has to localize some of its production at factories located in its foreign market areas. (It makes little sense from either an economic or a freshness standpoint to be shipping fruits and vegetables and/or finished food products halfway around the world rather than producing them locally.) One wouldn't expect, for example, every can and bottle of Coca-Cola sold anywhere in the world — whether it be Australia, China, or Portugal — to be produced by U.S. bottlers.)
<snip>

[mturnerRNNTV]

8. Another urban legend...

This one's easy. In fact, the great urban legend-debunker site snopes.com has a pretty comprehensive piece on this. Take your pick of how you'd like to smack the idiot...Here's the link:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp

[Kahuna]

13. It's not an urban legend. It's a deliberate wingnut lie.

There's a difference. I actually heard Rush and Hannity bleating out this lie. The lie was then dutifully perpetuated on Drudge.

[patrice]

9. One of the reasons I'm on board with Kerry in re jobs is

that I expect investment in alternative energies and alternative technologies to create new jobs here. These jobs perhaps could potentially outweigh any Heinz is exporting.

[Hoping4Change]

10. Answer posted on Kerry site by healthcare wrokers for Kerry

The following is on the John Kerry site (Town Meeting). In response to a question about Heinz outsourcing jobs, healthcare.wrokers.for. Kerry posted the following response

"A lot of those who come to this website are not aware of the lack of relationship between Sen. & Mrs. Kerry to the Heinz company. We can provide our own personal text here- but I thought for the new people who haven't built that trusing relationship with us yet - I would use the Urban Legends/Snopes website as a neutral source to explain this falsehood"


http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp

[rfranklin]

11. Probably apocryphal statistics about Heinz...

But, number one, she doesn't run the company.

[funky_bug]

14. You guys are the BEST!

So, to sum it up, I have written the following:

"In response to Mr. Landahl in his June 13th Letter to the Editor, I can only say that you, Kind Sir, may want to refer to a popular little website known as “Urban Legends” at www.snopes.com. You see, along with the flurry of not-really-missing children, razor-wielding interlopers concealed beneath parked cars, and free money from Bill Gates for e-mail forwards, there is mention of this fictitiously-based question you posed:

“When will somebody ask John Kerry how he is going to bring back all those jobs that left the United States? He could start by bringing back the 59 Heinz operations they built offshore. Maybe Mrs. Heinz-Kerry neglected to give him that information before he made that TV ad.”

Heinz is a U.S.-based global business, selling its products in several other countries. Heinz products made in other countries are not shipped back to the U.S., but rather, sold in the same country. Like other food companies, production is localized in its consumer market areas. It’s only sound business practice, both economically and from a freshness standpoint, to produce foods closest to consumption. (Why squash a tomato shipped half-way around the world, when you can grow it in your own back yard?) It's perfectly reasonable for a food manufacturer to make products for a foreign market in that market with domestic ingredients.

Additionally, Teresa Heinz-Kerry has no control over the day to day running of the Heinz Corporation.
In fact, the Heinz family has not run the Heinz Corporation in over 100 years, and the Heinz Family Trust (inherited by Teresa Heinz-Kerry) sold most of its shares of Heinz stock back in 1995, currently holding less than a 4% interest in the company. "

Did I get it all? Did I miss something? We LIE-BERALS (as the dittos say) simply MUST stick together.

[spooky3]

20. Beautiful letter! Inside is one more small point I didn't see in the

other posts, but maybe I overlooked it. It isn't as strong a point as those already posted but to me it is still relevant.

There is an implicit sexist assumption behind the question, that somehow John Kerry *really* controls the business operations of the assets that are (mistakenly) believed to be owned by Teresa Heinz Kerry. But marriages are made up of two whole persons--contrary to some Repug notions that women are basically appendages to the husband, who will do what their husbands tell them. Let's assume that Heinz had managerial control over the corporations, ***which we know she does not.*** (I am changing the facts to make my point clearer.) That would mean that she, who is NOT running for office, and not John, is to be held accountable for its management. *IF* she chose to manage the corporation in a legal way but that some people objected to, John Kerry could say in perfectly good conscience and without hypocrisy that he wants to change the laws affecting "her" corporation as well as any others.

[ACK]

15. A couple of things.... Heinz family does not run Heinz

They have not for years. This is a publically run and based company and if you want every type of catsup made by the company made in the US then that effort has to go through the shareholders not the Heinz family. As if John Kerry has some sort of magical influence on what the hell the entire Heinz family does anyway.

Also they make a food product silly you have to localize the manufacturing of food products in almost every case not just for cost or even not just freshness but also to accomodate and keep current on variations for local taste. This is not hardcore manufacturing they make a food product. I bitch about offshoring but never when I talk McDonalds which I dislike for other reasons because it just makes complete sense to localize the production of food based products.

Kerry has said he would repeal the law that gives corporations a break when they offshore jobs and he talked about no special exemption for the Heinz company.

He has also talked about a law that would reward companies that keep jobs in America.

This is a good solid carrot and stick approach to offshoring.

Remember as an aside to many Heinz family jabs, Kerry signed a pre-nupt and does not have direct access to the Heinz fortune as has been suggested.

I married into a rich family and my wife and I live a very typical but upper middle class life based on our incomes not the incomes of my wife's father.

This is all utter bullshit coming from an oil family with ties to the Bin Ladens and the Sauds who have fought two wars in the Middle East during two Presidencies. I am not drawing the connection. People like your Repug friends can do that for themselves.

_

[funky_bug]

16. Huh?

"People like your Repug friends can do that for themselves."

Repub friends? Ugh. Now I have to shower. I assure you, fellows of this sort hardly make up my social base.

[ACK]

17. I thought you said your co-workers .... Sorry

I do have a few friends who are Repugs and most of them are very disenchanted with *.

Most of them are McCain or Jack Kemp Repubs.
_

[funky_bug]

18. Ah yes... "co-workers"...

but again, none I'd grab a beer with after work, if you get my drift. Still, it's nice to see them ready for a new regime.

[AP]

19. Write that you're sure he'll do what it takes to encourage Americans to

be able to work in America, and won't let the tax code be used to send jobs overseas.

It's Bush and the Republicans who have encouraged business practices that have allowed corporations to cut costs with cheap labor (and not even pass those savings on to American consumers with lower costs!).

It's part of Kerry's platform that he wants to undo the damage Republicans have done.

Given that he has absolutely nothing to do with the management of Heinz Ketchup, it's odd to insist that he do something only about Heinz. But if you want to elect the person who protects the value of American labor, who will ask corporations to pay a fair share of taxes for the immense wealth they're able to accumulate thanks to the economic system for which our goverment acts as the referee, and if you want the economy to work, vote for Kerry.

The choice couldn't be more obvious and the differences between Kerry and Bush on this issue more stark.