is Howard Dean really being considered for VP ?

[JI7]

with these polls out and other info some are saying he is under consideration. maybe he isn't up there with some others so far but they say he is at least in consideration. kerry wont confirm or deny it so we don't know from that. but the strategy for picking dean seems to be to forget about the south other than west virginia and florida . and make up for it by the gain in support in swing states. although there isn't much evidence to show dean would help in those swing states any more than someone like edwards would. and at least with someone like edwards other parts of the south may have a chance at being competitive. i'm not sure it's a good idea to go with two northeasterners on the ticket this time around because of the prejudice against it. dean himself said it probably isn't a good idea although he never ruled out accepting if offered.

[Cuban_Liberal]

1. More seriously than most would admit, I wager.

Depends on how much of a gambler Kerry is, IMO.

[JI7]

6. i think it will depend on the south

as long as kerry seriously considers competing in the south he wont put another northeasterner on the ticket whether it's dean or anyone else.

but if he feels the south is a lost cause he might consider dean especially if he feels he can help more in the swing states than most others.

for now it looks like kerry will compete in the south. but he has about a month left to make final decisions on which strategy he wants to go with his vp pick.

[BootinUp]

2. Not only did he not

rule it out, he released a statement that he would accept it back in February I believe.

But seriously folks, ain't gonna happen. Kerry is going to pick a moderate, or someone who looks moderate. And Dean blew that chance when he started attacking the DLC and Clinton and talked about re-regulating corporations and made a lot of other controversial comments that didn't sit well with middle Americans who think Bush is doing a good job on the war on terra.

[WI_DEM]

3. Dean was always respectful of Clinton

I agree he took lots of shots--deservedly so, imo, at the DLC.

[RogueTrooper]

4. Dean is a moderate

He would be a good bet of Kerry in the mid-west, where he was polling well before his collapse ( and where a great deal of his support came from ). His position on guns would play very well with a great many Americans. His fiscal record in Vermont would be an exceptional sell especially in contrast to the Bush Administration economic incompetance.

As Govenor of Vermont Dean usually won election with a coalition of moderate Democrats, Independants and Moderate Republicans. In addition he would pull the rug out from under the feet of Ralph Nader. Dean's electoral advantage comes form both the left and right. Dean has also fought ( and won ) 5 Gubernatorial elections against Republicans ( including the last one, which was particulary nasty and had a strong challenger from the left ), making him one of the most experienced Democratic campaigners in contemporary politics.

[Cuban_Liberal]

5. Excellent points!

:thumbsup:

[BootinUp]

7. I don't think he looks the part at this point

Dean was weaker than Clark for instance with moderate dems nationwide. Also, you missed where I said someone who looks moderate. Because of the campaign Dean ran, he lost some of his moderate image in a trade for the (somewhat angry) populist image.

[RogueTrooper]

9. Populism is winning at the moment

it has in the last two special congressional elections ( and they were both in Republican leaning states ). I think Clark's major drawback, and it may be equal to Dean's regional drawback, is his lack of campaign experience.

[Cheswick2.0]

10. He did worse than Clark with moderate Dems..do you have proof?

I do believe Dean got more delegates nationwide than Clark. that means that amoung other things more moderates voted for him.

PS...populism isn't right or left.

[BootinUp]

12. One correction...I meant conservative Dems

It was in Gallup polling back in early January I believe.

Self proclaimed conservative dems were going Clarks way by a margin of around 10 pts.

Sorry about the error.

While populism is not necessarily right or left, it certainly isn't always moderate either. My point is that in order to get the anti-war angry Dems on board he certainly did move to the left.

[Cheswick2.0]

8. Clark was praising and raising money for republicans 2 years ago

I guess nobody is perfect huh?

Dean is a moderate. I don't believe he ever attacked Clinton and since the current leadership of the DLC is the equivalent of a republic trojan horse I agree with everything Dean ever said about them.

[RogueTrooper]

11. I think of the DLC as Saruman Democrats

they were once good but they used the palantir and Sauron ensnared their souls.

[BootinUp]

13. Then why did he apologize

for the Clinton remarks when he bashed the DLC?

Why did you bring up the Clark/republican thing? Ohhhh, you wanted to show that he would probably appeal to moderates/swing voters more than Dean :evilgrin:

[Crunchy Frog]

15. Can you provide any documentation

for that statement about Clark?

I mean, I could say the exact same thing about Dean, and without the requirement of providing documentation for statements, mine would be just as accurate as yours. This is exactly the same game that the Repukes play, making assertions about their opponents without any corroboration. It really saddens me to see Democrats behaving in the same manner.

If you are willing to provide reliable documentation that Clark raised money for Republicans in 2002, I will back off my statement.

By the way, Dean was praising Bush 2 years ago. On the war in Afghanistan, and the War on Terror in general.

22. Middle americans who think Bush is doing a good job

on the war on terra aren't going to vote for Kerry anyway.
If they still believe that this far along, they're lost causes.
Why pander to them?

[BootinUp]

23. One word answer: politics -eom-

24. yep

& it makes me think of that quote

"Politics is the art of the possible"

Which is what I'm saying. I don't think it's possible to get people who still think Bush is doing a good job to vote for Kerry, so why bother?

edit -- maybe there are still a few on the fence I admit, but not enough to worry about -- this is a matter of opinion of course

[BootinUp]

25. Its one issue

and the campaign ain't over. There are still some votes that can be gotten there. At least I'm not ready to write them all off. :shrug:

27. No argument here really

check my edit.

The question is a balance.
Is there a way to get a large enough percentage of the 3% who are leaning to Nader to vote for Kerry? Would that percentage outweigh the last vestigial middle americans who haven't come to their senses about Bush?
That would be one argument in favor of Dean. & Clark too actually who is not that far from Nader on the polticial spectrum.

[trogdor]

14. I still wonder how Kerry/Hillary! would work out.

Lots of women just LOVE Hillary Clinton. She's not up for re-election, so that's a definite plus. If she's elected VP, George Pataki (R - Useless) would get to name her replacement (D'Amato restoration anyone?), and that would be a BIG minus.

The wingnuts would go stark raving NUTS, though, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Lots of wingnuts going stark raving NUTS scares the living shit out of sane people, who might be more motivated to go to the polls.

I told a NY Post reporter last Labor Day I would watch a Hillary! - Cheney debate on pay-per-view. I still would; I think Hillary! would shred the old bastard in a debate, especially if he tries to bring up that bullshit about Saddam having links to al-Qaida.

A not-so-well-known possible plus is, she's originally from Illinois, a swing state, and is somewhat associated with Arkansas, another swing state. That midwestern accent she has is definitely NOT from anywhere in New York, that's for sure.

All in all, JK could do a lot worse, that is, if she wants the job.

[Demobrat]

16. No way.

There is no way Kerry's ego could take the hit the excitement of Dean on the ticket would create. It would all be about Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean then, and we all know how he feels about that.

[janx]

17. Nobody really knows. Nobody knows anything about

how Kerry is dealing with the V.P. stuff right now.

It's ALL speculation. The television "experts" don't even know what the heck is going on.

Kinda fun, ain't it? ;-)

[Anarcho-Socialist]

18. Howard Dean would be an excellent VP...

As would John Edwards and Wesley Clark.

With either of the three, I think Kerry will win the popular vote.

[eridani]

19. Dean should displace McAuliffe n/t

[quaker bill]

20. He should be considered

Trying to compete in the south is vastly over rated. Losing a southern state by 10,000 votes has the same effect as losing it by 500. Short of resurrecting George Wallace, there is no one Kerry can put on the ticket that would change the electoral vote outcome in the true south. Some choices, like Dean could put Florida and West Virginia more in play.

Kerry needs to focus on the midwest and the southwest, where he has an actual chance of capturing some states Gore just lost. Dean would be a reasonable choice as well as a few others recently mentioned.

[goddess40]

21. Dean and Nadar

Dean would bring in the Nadar voters and that would be enough to win the swing states. Forget the south, they will never vote Dem no matter who is on the ticket. As far as Dean's "anger" we should all be grateful for it as it got the Dems off their butts and energized them. It was a righteous anger. I saw him in person three times and never saw anger. He is a speaker who gets the crowd cheering and on their feet. Kerry should take a lesson from him as Dean has the ability to speak clearly and simply but get complex ideas across.

[mzmolly]

26. Exactly, exactly and exactly.

;)

:hi:

[mzmolly]

28. Actually I think the data is there. Dean appeals more to Nader supporters

then Edwards ever would. And, Nader may the THE KEY issue in the coming election :shrug:

29. I read recently on DU that the "KerryDean" domains were still open -

If that was true then, it aint now!

KerryDean.Com, .ORG, and .US have all been snatched up.

Read into that what you will... :)

[mzmolly]

30. LOL. Hmmm?

;)