Triple Bad News Day for Bush: Mosque Attack, FBI after Rove, Dean 5% poll!

[Dems Will Win]

At the Sunni Mosque attack yesterday, soldiers ripped the pages of the Koran and left food-maybe with pork products--at the mosque after they turned the whole place upside down in a SWAT team search.

This was just plain stupid, even if they did find some weapons. This is going to inflame the Sunnis and make governing it impossible. If Bush wanted to have them Bring It On, he is going to find out now what they do to soldiers who are not only infidel Crusaders in their eyes but infidel Crusaders who rip up the mosque, arrest the top clerics and leave Western food in the sacred place (really a no-no).

FROM DEFENSE.Link:

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040102-1084.html (read down)

-snip-

Regarding the operation at the Al-Tabul Mosque, on 1 January, coalition forces, led off by Iraqi Civil Defense Corps personnel and the Iraqi police, conducted a cordon-and-search of the Al-Tabul Mosque. The following equipment was seized from the mosque: five sticks of high-explosive PE-4; three packages of TNT; one case of blasting caps; three bags of gunpowder; eight improvised grenades; a small roll of detonation cord; one case of 155-millimeter artillery primers; improved -- improvised explosive device materials, to include nine-volt batteries and unidentified propellants; 11 AK- 47s; two SKS rifles; two RPG launchers; a 60-millimeter mortar tube; various mortar sights; a 120-millimeter mortar bipod and base plate; an SA-7 missile trainer; 20 AK-47 magazines; 3,500 7.62 rounds; and additional items of intelligence value.



Over the last several months, the 1st Armored Division in Baghdad has received numerous reports from local Iraqis that pointed to the Al-Tabul Mosque as being used for criminal and terrorist activities. Led by Sheikh Mahti Sumadi, the Al-Tabul Mosque is believed to have been a hub of anti-coalition and anti-Iraqi activities, with various cells using the mosque as a meeting location and weapons cache.



During this operation, 32 personnel were detained, and based on their dialect, several of the detainees were suspected to be foreign nationals. Confirmation of the suspects' nationalities and any possible connections to foreign terrorist organizations has not yet been established. Despite the clear use of this mosque for criminal, terrorist and anti-coalition activities, the greatest care was taken by coalition forces to uphold the sanctity of the mosque and to use the minimal amount of force necessary to conduct the operation. There were no casualties during this operation.



MR. SENOR: We're happy to take your questions. Yes?



Q Erhud Gandi from CNN. When we went into the mosque this morning, the officials of the mosque took us in and showed us not just broken chairs and tables and doors, but they also showed us the holy book, Koran, pages torn, and they blamed the coalition forces for that.



GEN. KIMMITT: We're aware that there were some allegations that coalition forces in fact tore open a Koran. There is no evidence to support that. And the coalition forces have been asked that specific question, and all deny taking any activities against some of the artifacts inside the mosque. They repeated time after time after time that their clear rules of engagement was minimal force, minimal disruption to a holy mosque.

-snip-

Then the FBI demands that Karl Rove release Bob Novaks and Chris Matthews from their confidentiality agreements they signed with him! We now know first that they do seem to be investigating Rove (Matthews said Rove told him Plame was "fair game")! Just as good, since this is post-9-11 and we are dealing with the outing of a CIA NOC agent (the most secret of the secret agents) and the one who was tasked with keeping NUCLEAR WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF TERRORISTS! this means that Chris Matthews and Bob Novaks and the 4 other media whores will be threatened with real jail time and THE PATRIOT ACT by the Special Prosecutor!!!! And the judge will likely oblige!!!!!!!!

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,570189,00.html

-snip-

FBI investigators looking into the criminal leak of a CIA agent’s identity have asked Bush Administration officials including senior political adviser Karl Rove to release reporters from any confidentiality agreements regarding conversations about the agent. If signed, the single-page requests made over the last week would give investigators new ammunition for questioning reporters who have so far, according to those familiar with the case, not disclosed the names of administration officials who divulged that Valerie Plame, wife of former ambassador Joe Wilson, worked for the CIA.

While irregular, the move is not unprecedented. Various officials were told from the start that such a request might be made. Along with the recusal this week of Attorney General John Ashcroft, this suggests that investigators are ready to enter the next stage of the probe. U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has been named special prosecutor to oversee the inquiry. The FBI has already extensively re-interviewed some White House officials using emails and phone logs from their search to press for the identity of the leaker. “They are taking this very seriously,” says one close to the case.

Lucy Dalglish, executive director of the Reporters' Committee for Freedom of the Press, says asking people who are in the universe of possible suspects to sign such a document is unusual, though not unheard of. "From the prosecutors' point of view, it is likely a precursor to subpoenaing journalists to testify before a grand jury, and then asking a judge to hold them in contempt if they refuse to do so," she noted.

It's plain that White House officials are under some pressure to sign the documents. "They can't refuse," said one individual who's familiar with the case. "The worst thing to be accused of here is not cooperating with the investigation." But reporters are not likely to feel the same pressure. Journalists rarely divulge the identities of confidential sources even when threatened with contempt citations so the releases may make little difference. Still, in a post-9/11 world, a case involving the disclosure of a covert agent's identity could be taken very seriously by a judge, who would have the power to jail a member of the press for refusing to cooperate with a grand jury.

-snip-


And then Dean is now 5% behind Bush in the latest CNN/Time poll because everyone realized he was right about the US not being any safer with Saddam in the pokey!

http://www.pollingreport.com

NEED A BUSHECTOMY?? CALL DR. DEAN!!

DR DEAN! DR. DEAN! PLEASE REPORT TO THE OPERATING ROOM FOR YOUR NOV. 2 BUSHECTOMY APPOINTMENT!!! STAT!!

YE HAAA!

[jonoboy]

1. you have just made my day

why don't the military film these big important raids so they can prove it if they are conducted legitimately.?
I get so pissed off when I hear soldiers maltreating the Iraqis because they are then putting in danger their comrades.

Who are the commanders in Iraq ? dont they have any training ?

[meow mix]

3. rofl

love that last part =)

"NEED A BUSHECTOMY?? CALL DR. DEAN!!"

[Sir Craig]

15. This may make me unpopular...

I feel I need to say something here, in defense of the military action...

I am a member of the military, and it is easy for me to see why, as Jonoboy asks, they don't film these raids: Who is going to be the genius that will storm into an unknown, very possibly hostile situation armed with a camera instead of a rifle?

Yes, I know that cameras can be mounted to helmets, and if every member of the unit had such a set-up there would be no question as to what happened. Sadly, we are talking about a military whose funding for this fiasco is so dicked-up that they cannot get anything better than Vietnam-era flak jackets for protection; where the hell are they going to get cameras?

And allow me to play advocatus diaboli for a moment, and ask if it might not be possible that the soldiers really didn't desecrate the mosque and its belongings? That maybe this is hype very similar to what Fonda experienced on her much-discredited trip to Hanoi? There are no limits regarding who can play the sympathy game in this battle, and all it takes is a very gullible, easy-to-impress reporter to see pages torn from a Kuran and somebody telling him or her that the "evil American military did it" to create the story we now see. It's called PROPAGANDA.

I know that in my time over in the middle east, we were told in no uncertain terms what would happen to us if we ever desecrated any of the religious temples or customs. It was called General Order One (GO1), and punishment could be meted out for even the appearance of defiling local religious customs. (We were not even allowed to bring Bibles into the country.) Does that mean it isn't possible for it to happen? No, of course not, but given the situation in Iraq, I am willing to give those grunts the benefit of the doubt, because frankly, as was observed, it doesn't make sense for an American serviceman to deliberately try to piss the locals off.

So in answer to your question, Jonoboy, yes, there is plenty of training, and there are plenty of good soldiers and decent commanders over there, doing the best they can in a seriously crappy situation. And yes, there are undoubtedly attrocities going on on both sides, but this is going to happen with war (that may be no excuse, but until you've been shot at on a daily basis, in a country you would rather not have any part of, by people you are slowly but surely not giving a damn about, you may want to keep in mind what kind of stress these people are dealing with), and I'm sure there will be some form of accounting later on.

That is my two cents on this matter.

[Rose Siding]

16. Reasoned and plausible

It usually takes a long time to find out what really happens, if ever at all. Very interesting about the Bibles. Were you there recently? I'd be very surprised if they kept that reg during "war".

Welcome to DU, Sir :hi:

[Sir Craig]

19. Greetings, Party Line

In answer to your question, yes, I was there not too long ago (though I am not at liberty to say exactly where or for what purpose - the military frowns on that kind of thing), and GO1 is still very much alive in many parts of the Middle East. As to whether or not it is being strictly enforced is hard to say, although from personal experience it is still taken seriously.

As Iraq was not strictly Muslim (or at least to the degree that Saudi Arabia is), they may be allowing Bibles into the war zone, but the mosques are still verbotten. In this case, it was clear that the non-violability of the mosque was compromised by the presence of weapons, but the local authorities were still the ones to lead the raid into the mosque.

[TacticalPeek]

22. Welcome to DU, Sir Craig!

:toast:


The initial report is always wrong.

Of course, there are always the few crazies:

Pool dip offered in return for baptism

:)

[Sir Craig]

25. I remember this idiocy

I thank you for the warm welcome, TacticalPeak...

When I read about that, I wanted to go straight to the chaplain's office and DEMAND that they file a grievance on that bastard. But, being an atheist, I have experienced all too often the low opinion the chaplains' office has for non-believers.

(True story: Once when I was making my way through the deployment line on my way to go overseas, the chaplain viewed my dog-tags, saw the "No Religious Preference" that was stamped on them {code for "atheist"}, and asked me if in the event of my death I'd want to be buried face up or face down. Needless to say, my reply to him very nearly ended up in me being court-martialed.)

[Dems Will Win]

21. The sandwiches were broadcast on CNN, as were the ripped pages of the

Koran, as was the ENORMOUS SEA of enraged Sunni Moslems demanding their cleric back and the Americans out.

Even if it isn't true, the Sunnis believe it is so it is actually a moot point. They don't care what you think or I think, the clumsiness of the raid has in short turned 5000 resistance fighters into 50,000 or maybe more.

Believe me, no matter whether pro or anti-war, today was a complete disaster for Bush in Iraq and the troops are the ones in the line of fire.

It didn't have to be done this way.

[Sir Craig]

24. Again, it is called "propaganda"

I have no doubt that these images were broadcast (I personally have not seen them), but the question remains (moot or not) where did the sandwiches/damage originate from? This weighs very heavily on anyone who is in the military, because none of us wants to see that kind of abuse; our jobs are hard enough without the extra headaches.

As for the raid being done some other way, I'm afraid there are few options available when dealing with what amounts to guerrilla warfare and tactics. And until someone can come up with a way to simply "spirit" the weapons cache out without a need to physically enter a building, all raids will appear "messy" and "clumsy." Sadly, as Bush has never been one to follow news that hasn't been thoroughly sanitized by his staff, I doubt seriously the raid will have much of an effect on him, and the American public has been shown to have a woefully short memory.

For the record, I have always been dead-set against this war. I knew when the war started that Bush's reasoning was a complete fabrication (something the world has also discovered), and that this "messiness" should never have happened. But now that we are stuck in it, I am going to give every bit of support that I can to all those that share a uniform with me and try to nip as many of these snide and/or unproven accusations as possible, because I've been there. And if in the end it turns out that there is truth to the story, I hope they burn the bastards responsible.

All I ask, as someone who has spent far too much time in the Middle East fighting for bullsh*t reasons, is please give our troops the benefit of the doubt and a little support.

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. I tend to agree with you here

It's wrong to hold any kind of animosity towards our troops simply because our president's policies suck and he's an asshole. Our troops should never have been sent to Iraq in the first place, and Bush would rather give huge tax cuts to people who don't need them than pay our troops what they deserve and give them the equipment they NEED while he has put them in harm's way. Bush is a debacle. I'm so glad the Dean campaign has rallied Dean supporters to put together care packages to send to Iraq for our military men and women.

It's entirely possible that some of the ones attacking our troops went in after our troops left and did that damage just to incite muslims. Al Qaida wants a holy war and they WILL pull shit like this to anger other muslims to the point where they can recruit more people. The Iraqi police went in there too and there is no way they would sit back and let the Koran be torn up. I think this is propoganda too.

[Andromeda]

29. Thank you for your two-cents, Sir Craig...

and welcome to DU.:hi:

[BeyondGeography]

2. Lieberman's only down 6%

in the same poll. Does that mean we can run Bush-Lite and do just as well as Howard?

[BobbyJay]

4. I agree. The poll is skewed.

[Dems Will Win]

7. THis poll is causing shock waves in my political consultant circles

I'm a consultant and this poll is no fluke. After he wins NH handily, the Good Doctor will be ahead of Bush and the pundits will weep and whine! People obviously agreed with Dean's Saddam statement, especially after the TV then went nuts screaming: ORANGE ALERT! ORANGE ALERT! OH MY GOD, ORANGE ALEEEERRRRRTTTT!!!

NEED A BUSHECTOMY? CALL DR. DEAN!!!!

[BobbyJay]

10. I'm waiting to see another poll display the same feedback

[lariokie]

18. Another poll?

What, you're waiting for a poll that tells you what you want to hear? Sheesh, no wonder we get the sox beat off of us politically.

[lancdem]

13. What are consultant friends saying about the poll?

Could you elaborate?

[Dems Will Win]

23. The county chairman of the Dems just told me on the phone that

this means the Dean is Unelectable mantra is kaput! No more!

It's Bush that's unelectable, he said!

Another consultant in NY agreed with me that Dean will be even or ahead of Bush after NH and roll into South Carolina primary on Feb.3 and be unstoppable. He also said Kerry or Lieberman or Clark could beat Bush but except for Clark, none of them have any money or real support and if they did manage to stop Dean, they would be helpless against the Bush onslaught of $$ and TV ads that will start soon, whereas Dean will have plenty of money on hand to respond all through the Spring.

This means he said that Dean is way more electable all of a sudden than the rest!!!

He also agreed that Clark will be Dean's VP by April--that Dean will not wait until the convention--and that if the poll questions were Bush/Cheney vs. Dean/Clark, the Dems would be tied or ahead today!

Also said the Rove/Plame scandal is huge, that Novaks and Matthews and Andrea Mitchell going to jail for Karl Rove would be a bigger story than the capture of Saddam Hussein and makes the whole year of 2004 a nightmare for Bush--and will heavily distract Rove from detailed control of the campaign.

It suddenly looks very bad for Smirky....

DR. DEAN! STAT! CALLING DR. DEAN!!

[windansea]

28. re Clark VP BS

I understand the Dean campaign is STILL TRYING TO FLOAT THE CLARK VP rumor...but sorry...Clark's not going to plug that donut hole for you

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/002/politics/Clark_says_he_wouldn_t_be_Dean:.shtml

Retired General Wesley Clark said Friday he would not be ''Howard Dean's Dick Cheney'' if front-runner Dean wins the Democratic Party's presidential nomination.

Clark said he's running for president, not vice president.

''I'm not going to be Howard Dean's Dick Cheney,'' Clark told reporters. ''We've already tried that model of government. That's what's misled America thus far.''

Clark said President Bush was a former governor, inexperienced in foreign policy who surrounded himself with experienced advisers, like Cheney.

''He tried to reassure the American people by having a lot of highly experienced and competent advisers around,'' said Clark. ''And we see the results right now in our presence in Iraq and the alienation of people around the world.''

[stickdog]

11. No. That one percent difference is critical.

Who am I imitating?

[lancdem]

12. I think Lieberman still benefits from name recognition

[coloradodem2005]

5. Looks like Bush hit another trifecta.....

...against him. Too Bad.

[quaker bill]

6. Beat me to the one liner.

Oh well.

[Dems Will Win]

9. LOL! A negative Trifecta!

[killbotfactory]

8. I'd like to see Rove behind bars...

Of course, Bush would just pardon him, but it would still be cool.

[Toucano]

14. Gotta love the "Time" dismissive headline:

The CIA Agent Flap: FBI Asks for Reporters to Talk

flap: an excited state of agitation.

That's all it is. Just excitement and agitation. Making a fuss.

Such a relief to know it isn't a matter of national security and illegal use of power by a white house insider.

Why, it's nothing more than two old ladies arguing about a panty sale at Wal-Mart! What's that flap all about over there?

Move on, folks. Nothing to see here.

[benddem]

17. Help me out

Where was it published that Rove asked Novak and the other guy to sign confidentiality agreements. That strikes me as in itself a criminal offense. This guy is not god..he wasn't elected to anything. Well neither was Bush but any way.
Also as a Veteran...I would wait till the smoke clears over the claims of destruction done by the soldiers. This kind of thing can be done later.
:kick:

[calimary]

20. Your "Need a Bushectomy" line is GREAT!

Long may it be repeated!

The patient is sick. GRAVELY ill. Don't you think it's time we called the Doctor?

[PlanetBev]

26. November 2, 2004

Calling Dr. Dean, calling Dr. Dean. Bushboy is ready for his hot lead enema.