Naderites - did you attend GLBT pride parades this month?

[LoZoccolo]

Poll question: Naderites - did you attend GLBT pride parades this month?

I just got back from watching the pride parade in Chicago, and was glad to see that participants were standing up against Bush*. I am wondering if Naderites came out to see the pride parade as well.

[JohnLocke]

1. Prepare for snide comments that don't address the issue from Naderites ...

[Forkboy]

3. Nah,you've already provided the snide comment

that doesn't address the issue :hi:

[JohnLocke]

4. LOL.

There's nothing to address. I agree with LoZocco! :hi:

[Prodemsouth]

2. You left out a choice, "No, Iike Nader believe GLBT rights is "gondola"

politics".

[Dr Fate]

5. If that was not a typo...

...then it was funny as hell!

[Prodemsouth]

6. Oops, What a screw up, no he called it gonad(al) spell check did not

recognize that word so I changed the spelling during spell check. The point is Nader is no big friend of Gays and Lesibans. He said when asked about Gay Rights "I don't do 'gonadal' politics." Do a google and you should find it.

[Dr Fate]

7. Natch!! I just thought the image of politics involving Venice canals...

..was a funny image!!!

Anyway- I've always thought Nader was a jerk for dismissing gay-rights & pro-choice issues as well...

[IndianaGreen]

8. Does Kerry support equal rights for GLBTs, including same sex marriage?

The answer is an resounding NO!

The Socialist Party USA, the Communist Party USA, the Green Party USA, and the Trotskyite Socialist Equality Party support equal rights for GLBTs, including same sex marriage!

[LoZoccolo]

9. Do any of those parties have a chance of winning?

Or maybe even, what would the majority of GLBT voters want you to do?

[IndianaGreen]

10. That's not the point!

The point is that the only electorally viable alternative to Bush doesn't give a rat's ass about GLBT rights, and may be suffering from the Catholic homophobia that the current Pope spews from time to time.

Guess what? Marriage is a contract between two parties. The marriage license is a secular document, just like a teaching license, and a pilot's licens. If we are going to say that it is okay for a state to deny a marriage license to same sex couples, we are giving a green light for the state to deny a teaching license to gays and lesbians.

[LoZoccolo]

11. Not necessarily true. Here's how it could happen.

1. Kerry does not try to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay marraige.
2. Three supreme court justices retire and are replaced with liberal justices.
3. A state gay civil marraige case goes all the way to the SCOTUS and the SCOTUS rules in favor of it on the grounds of equal protection.

Ta da. Note this scenario could happen even if he doesn't advocate or campaign on this issue. And the Bush* alternative is just the opposite - I don't see this coming close to happening with four more years of him.

Now what's your plan? Anything that can't happen is purely academic and the people affected by this issue won't appreciate it being so.

[IndianaGreen]

12. It is a question of principle, not on depending on focus groups and polls

If we had to depend in focus groups and polls we would still have segregation in the South and de-facto segregation in the North (Hello Boston!).

Why don't we stand for liberal principles anymore is one of the biggest failures of the DLC-led Democratic Party. Case in point: Kerry's refusal to include the transgendered as a protected class under ENDA.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Uh, obviously anti-segregationist activism worked to some degree.

Otherwise things would be the same as the fifties.

Now what I'm asking you to do is something that works. I think that's principled because I think the people affected by these issues would want you to do something that works rather than possibly putting the issue off the table indefinately by getting a constitutional amendment passed. Yes, that's principled. And actually more selfless.

[IndianaGreen]

14. The Democratic Party was not part of the desegregation movement

The Democratic establishment did not want to offend its Southern base. Democratic Presidents such as JFK ordered FBI taps on desegregation leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King.

To his credit, President Lyndon Johnson broke with his own past, and his own party, and pushed for the 1964 Equal Rights Bill.

[LoZoccolo]

15. Well yeah. Where's the socialists in all this?

Eventually the issue got enough support that the Democratic party couldn't ignore it.

Actually, what would have happened if the abolitionists would have said around the time after the civil war that they're gonna let the Republicans lose because they supported the emancipation proclamation but not desegregation, affirmative action, busing, and preference for minority-owned businesses in government contracts? What would things be like if they kept letting the Democrats win because of that?

[IndianaGreen]

16. One of the top organizers of the Washington March was gay and red

If you read on the history of this country, you will quickly find out that the Socialists were at the forefront of the fight for equal rights for women, minorities, and immigrants. It was their struggle, paid in blood on American soil, that paved the way for the modern civil rights and women's movements of today.

I will also point out, as I often do to my jingoistic compatriots, that Soviet women had more reproductive rights in 1920 than American women have in 2004.

Democrats gave us Social Security, which was a watered down version of the Socialist national pension plan which provided for a full standard of living to pensioners.

Democrats gave us Minimum Wage, another watered down version of the Socialist Living Wage.

Democrats have yet to give us free universal health care, as all socialist societies have done for their citizens.

[LoZoccolo]

17. I still haven't seen your plan.

How will we get closer to gay marraige and not further away from a lot of other issues by letting Bush* win? I don't see any Bush* scenario where this could happen, and I outlined a very probable Kerry scenario.

With conservative SCOTUS justices, this issue is likely to be on hold for twenty years. Please be here now.

[IndianaGreen]

18. I wouldn't sacrifice anyone's rights in order to gain a bigoted vote!

That's what you are asking here. The shame of this campaign is that considering Bush's extreme weakness, we have a Democratic candidate that stands for nothing other than "I am not Bush"! Perhaps our hetero middle class friends are quite satisfied with that, but to the rest of us, it falls short of a real opposition.

You will get a taste of real opposition next year when you will find out that many that voted against Bush will demand that Kerry abandon the GOP-Lite DLC agenda. What will you do then? Raise the boogey man of another GOP victory if we oppose the DLC legislative agenda? It won't work!

[JI7]

19. Do the Palestinians support same sex marriage ?

we shouldn't support a state for them unless they support same sex marriage. after all, it's about principle and we should not sacrafice anyone's rights to get the support of bigots for an agreement for a state.

[IndianaGreen]

20. Israel doesn't support same sex marriage either, and they are a state!

Let's cutoff all aid to Israel as you suggested!

Sad strawman!

[JI7]

21. sure why not. so you will now only support a palestinian state

if they support same sex marriage ? no more advocating for a state unless they support same sex marraige ?

and israel is a lot more supportive of gay rights than the palestinians are.

[IndianaGreen]

22. Israel opposes gay rights, here in a name is why...

Dana International

[LoZoccolo]

23. You would sacrifice someone's rights in order to avoid a "bigoted vote".

What you call a "bigoted vote" anyways. So because I vote with the Democrats I'm responsible for any views someone else might have that you consider "bigoted"? Weird.

I guess when Bush* appoints some SCOTUS justice that believes that you can't have gay sex anymore and that ruling on sodomy laws from last year gets overturned or compromised or something, and forget about gay marraige, you can tell all your gay friends that you avoided that "bigoted vote" just for them! I wonder how much they'd thank you.

(This is the mentality that got Hitler elected. Please be here now.)