Dean endorses Lynch in Dem Gov primary over more progressive opponent

[JI7]

<KEENE, June 29 – Former Vermont Governor and one-time Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean endorsed John Lynch’s gubernatorial campaign over his more progressive opponent.

In an interview with PoliticsNH.com, Dean said he thought Lynch (D-Hopkinton) was more electable than State Rep. Paul McEachern (D-Portsmouth), who backs a state-wide income tax.

“I’ve supported Paul McEachern in the past, but the fact is that we need to win this race and John can win it. I think we saw what happened in the past with a pro-income tax candidate,” Dean said. “Craig Benson is as bad for New Hampshire as George Bush is for America and we need a change this time.”

Besides his teaching duties at Dartmouth, Dean will be back campaigning in the state July 15 to keynote the Carroll County Democratic Committee’s annual Grover Cleveland dinner. >

http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2004/June/6_29dean.shtml

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

1. Smart Move...

...and I am sure some old friendships may be strained by this, but we need a democrat landslide so we can begin the real clean up of America. I am sure many of the overly excitable will be screaming "traitor" and "fake friend" over this, but when all is said and done, real politics are what have to be used.

[Dookus]

2. Good for Dean

pragmatism trumps idealism any day.

[WI_DEM]

3. Dean is and always has been a pragmatic politician

he wasn't in his race for president running as a far left candidate. He stressed his credentials as a budget balancer--always--in every speech. The press made him the favorite of the left because of his opposition, righful opposition, to a ill-conceived war--and because many anti-war progressives backed him because of it.

[mzmolly]

6. Yup.

:hi:

[Padraig18]

4. I dont see that supporting a statewide income tax makes one 'progressive'

I disagree with the author's completely subjective characterization.

[Zynx]

5. The author might have the opinion that high taxes are a "liberal" idea.

I honestly can't really explain it.

[mydawgmax]

11. A progressive tax structure

Usually, income taxes are referred to as "progressive" (I don't mean in the political sense) assuming that the tax rate increases with income. Taxes like sales tax rates don't increase with income and are considered regressive buecase the burden falls heaviest on those who consume more of their income - i.e. low income and middle class. A lot of progressives/liberals favor progressive tax structures as a more equitible way to distribute the tax burden.

[Sean Reynolds]

7. The writer is just feeding the notion that liberals are high taxers....

Tax and spend liberals, which isn't the case.

I'd like to see where these candidates stand on other issues, but one issue doesn't make one a progressive, or a conservative.

[LoZoccolo]

8. Can't make much "progress"...

...whilst not getting elected.

[JI7]

9. RIGHT

[AP]

10. One of the few things Gov Dean and P-Cand. Dean had in common

was that they both weren't all that progressive on the issue of taxation.

Gov Dean had an extremely regressive property tax structure and gave lots of tax breaks to IBM. Candidate Dean didn't see much need to allocate the tax burden more fairly.

I'm not saying that this might be his reason for not liking the guy who wants an income tax. But it's worth noting that he doesn't seemed like a guy who places taxation very high on the list of what makes a liberal liberal.

[dsc]

12. Please don't repeat things that have been debunked

I have repeatedly and over and over again pointed out how Dean made property taxes more, not less, progressive. You have answered many of those posts, as you well know. You should know better than that.

[AP]

14. The top 10% of VT income earners paid something like 1/13th the

effective rate of property taxes that the bottom quintile paid and there was a clear trend -- the richer you were, the lower your effective property tax rate at every income step.

I just deleted that .pdf breaking down property tax rates after having it on my computer for months.

IIRC, the only thing that our debates proved is that you an I interpret tax date differently. I don't think you proved anything more than that.

I believe that if you're an income eaner in the top 10% and your effective popertly tax bill is x/13% of your income and if you're income is in the bottom quintile and your property tax rate is x% of your income, then the property tax structure in your state is regressive. (The relative income brackets and that number --13 -- are from memory.) IIRC, there was also a document that showed that that denominator got higher while Dean was governor.

[dsc]

18. I am having massive computer problems

or I would prove you wrong. The last thing I can do is look at pdf files at this point. I am lucky to get one window open at a time due to being in pop up hell. The fact is you are dead wrong as to what Dean did. If you wish to find it fine, if you don't then I guess it is over since I have no real way to look without threatening a shut down.

[MontecitoDem]

13. Hmm. Interesting item

I remember a lot of folks saying that "electability" shouldn't be the issue in a campaign. Now, ... who were those folks?

[Darth_Ole]

15. You're probably referring to the Dean folks...

But Dean was the most electable...

Besides, we're going back to arguments from about 6 months ago, and it's ridiculous.

[MontecitoDem]

17. Sorry, you're right!

It should be water under the bridge. Apologies.

[LoZoccolo]

16. Well /I/ wasn't saying electability shouldn't be an issue.

But I thought the "Dean is unelectable" meme was bunk.

[dsc]

19. Please site one, just one, time

where I said electability wasn't an issue. Or failing that please site at least 10 Dean supporters who said that. I am tired of people like you pulling crap like this. Back it up or withdraw your post.

[Dookus]

20. nobody needs to withdraw any posts...

it's just a discussion.

Many Dean supporters did vehemently resent the argument that "electability" was important. Of course, they believed Dean was "electable" despite the evidence.

But I distinctly remember many Dean supporters sneering at Kerry voters because of the electability issue.

[dsc]

21. Those are different things

but evidently lying about Dean's supporters is still acceptable. I would like a citation of Dean supporters saying what you are dishonestly claiming they did. There were well over a hundred Dean supporters on this site. I am asking for 10, not even a tenth, of them saying what you and a previous poster claim they did. Several people, including me, claimed Dean was electable. But I don't recall any Dean person saying electability didn't matter. Back it up or withdraw.

[Dookus]

22. again, calm down with the "withdraw" stuff

it's a little over the top.

I never said Dean supporters don't think electability matters - but they DID strongly resent the argument when applied to Kerry.

[dsc]

30. Yes you just did

You claimed it was common for Dean supporters to discout electability as a criteria. I have now asked three times for some link to back it up. As usual you have provided none. Yet, it evidently is perfectly OK for you to lie about Dean supporters and I am wrong to think that you should stop it.

[Dookus]

31. You really are a little overwrought

I haven't lied about anything, and to be frank, what you think I should do holds little interest to me.

And yes, many Dean supporters DID sneer at the "electability" quotient. I'm surprised you don't remember that.

But really, friend, calm down a bit. Demanding apologies, calling people liars, and demanding people "withdraw" their statements is over the top.

[sandnsea]

23. On another note

That's the same poster who argued with me yesterday that there were no snide remarks made by, uhm, certain candidate's supporters (unrelated to Dean). Then turns around and makes a snide remark. Hmmm.

We have to get this primary stuff put behind us. I'm tired of the "Democrats are doomed" garbage because this candidate or that candidate isn't the nominee or VP.

I want my sig line back! :-)

[Larkspur]

24. I don't make snide remarks about Kerry.

I just come out guns a blazing and shoot him down.

[sandnsea]

25. Your love for Bush

is underwhelming. :eyes:

[MontecitoDem]

27. Your post is inaccurate

I did not say, nor have I ever said, that "there were no snide remarks made by certain candidate's supporters." I think you need to re-read our thread.

[sandnsea]

29. Maybe you do

You were highly insulted that I should point out candidate bashing and mention that Clark folks seem to be the worst offenders, at least towards Edwards. Your post seemed to indicate that you were not among the bashers. Seeing your most recent snide post in this thread, I guess I misinterpreted the previous post as you stating you were among the Clark supporters who only posted positive messages. Sorry for the mistake.

"Most of the folks who worked on the Clark campaign with me are working their butts off for Kerry. And have only posted positive Kerry messages here on DU. Being lumped together like this is offensive."

[MontecitoDem]

32. Your quote from me proves my point.

the thread yesterday was about your generalization that Clark supporters were somehow viciously tearing down Kerry. I said you were wrong, as you were. Kerry is our nominee and I am all for working hard towards the goal together. That is what I have been doing, as have most democrats here (regardless of who we supported in the primaries).

This thread was about Howard Dean's choosing a less progressive candidate (according to the poster) because of the issue of electability. That was a major source of discussion between many of us during the primary. I didn't intend my comment to be "snide" and I in fact apologized for it before all your crappy posts trying to stir up trouble with me. Guess you didn't read that one?! You are interested in having a fight as you proved yesterday. I'm not interested in fighting with you.

[MontecitoDem]

26. See my post #17

I've already apologized before you made your post. Did you see it?

My worst impulse got the best of me, and I've already acknowledged that.

[MontecitoDem]

28. And what does "people like you" mean, exactly?

Gee, I apologized and "people like you" don't even read the apology before freaking out all over me!

And by the way, I DO remember many conversations (I didn't ever say you or that it happened on DU) with supporters of various candidates who hated the idea that "electability" was driving democrats to choose their candidate, and that it should not be the issue. So, yes, I found it interesting that Howard Dean is more pragmatic than many of us were during the primaries. Feel free to be offended - that's your right. And it's mine to say what I said as well.

It was also my right to say I was sorry for offending folks, which I was.

[JI7]

33. kick