How severe are the brawls over Kerry's VP pick in here?

[WilliamPitt]

Poll question: How severe are the brawls over Kerry's VP pick in here?

I realized I almost never come in this forum anymore. When I do come in, I see a lot of threads about VP preferences. I'm wondering if the arguing over these is as harsh as the primary fights were.

How severe are the brawls over Kerry's VP pick in here?

[janx]

1. I returned here recently as well and was amazed to find

the level of ridiculous argument taking place day and night. It's not as bad as it was last February in the amount of vitriol, because there are fewer candidate supporters involved.

But the level of incivility is just as bad.

And it's doubly ridiculous since the decision is up to John Kerry, not us. It's almost as if people are posting on this board in the hopes of changing hearts and minds, as if we have anything to do with the decision.

We don't.

So the quantity is not like that of February, but the quality is identical--maybe even worse given the circumstances.

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. Insane.

Same shit, different day. It's February all over again.

[spooky3]

3. my perception is that it is a small minority of people who persist in

making silly, unsupported, repetitive statements, and/or push as far as they can in insulting others. The majority of people are being civil and posting reasonable comments, IMHO.

[Cuban_Liberal]

4. I agree.

There's a small contingent of asshats who just can't get a grip...

[JohnKleeb]

5. its annoying

its like the days of the primaries.

[Bryan]

12. Yep, it's bad and I think it's gonna get worse

If Kerry picks Clark over Edwards or vice versa, it is going to be a zoo in here. If Kerry picks neither, and if his choice isn't to his left on the war or populist issues, it's going to be like 11/06/02 all over again. I'm only half kidding. The morale will be so bad that Terry McAuliffe shooting Howard Dean in the head on live television would seem like a glorious respite. Sure, it'll pass after a week, and our resolve will be strengthened etcetera, but it's gonna be a long week.

[JohnKleeb]

13. things will calm down man but its annoying

People want everything to go their way, and its not gonna happen likely.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. I disagree

The zoo builds in intensity as the waiting drags on. The worse flame wars in here during the Primaries were while the outcome was in doubt. If Edwards or Clark gets the pick some people will be unhappy sure, but they won't have any further purpose for pushing their guy as the best VP. Some will start talking about roles they think they should get in the administration probably, but that's different. That's not a perceived competition.

Actually I just read your post more carefully lol. OK, maybe for a few days some people will piss and moan, but that's nothing compared to the many weeks we have gone around on this one here so far.

[Padraig18]

6. They're not bad, except for a handful of total jerks

On the whole, most posters are quite civil, but a VERY few make up for it by being absolutely VILE in their attacks...

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. Yes, and honestly

The vilest attacks of today tend not to be quite as vile as the vilest attacks during the primaries. Still, I can't wait for Kerry to make his pick known.

[Padraig18]

8. I agree, Tom.

It will be a huge relief. :)

[chimpymustgo]

9. Agreed. We will all pull for ONE ticket.

No more slander, no more wishful thinking, just dig in and work for the team.

[sandnsea]

11. Kerry/Porky Pig

I love them all. I hope all the negativity can stop. We've got WORK TO DO!

[sandnsea]

10. Unnecessary divisiveness

I just don't see the point in it. It's one thing to have your favorite VP choice, but when you start attacking other candidates or Kerry himself, then it's harmful to our entire cause and we really don't have time for it. When it spreads supposed "weaknesses" in Kerry, then it's especially bad. It's like the Greens around here who can't just advocate for their own candidate, but have to make supposed impartial "informative" posts on the Dem candidate. I'm just tired of fighting off attacks from the left, right and in-between.

Which led to my sig line. If I can feel like surrendering, how many others will just give up and sit this election out.

[Scoopie]

15. If someone without FP experience is picked

I'm outta here.

You're right - the Dems will be doomed. And this Independent will be sitting here vetting third party candidates. Shit.

I'm not asking for much - there are so many Dems with FP experience I could really roll up my sleeves and work for, but there are a couple of Dems, regularly mentioned, that I don't even know if I'd vote for as president of the PTA.

Sorry, but you guys really should look at the perspective of the Independent: the person disillusioned by today's politicians, the person who believes we should vote for what's best for the country, not what's best for a party and the person who simply cannot be pigeonholed into a cornor.
While, I admittedly lean to the left on social issues, in particular, and vote mostly Democrat, I have also been known to get fired up by some Republican candidates who I know will do well.

I just hope Kerry tries to include us all and not who "Democrats" think is best for the ticket - if you know what I mean.

[JI7]

16. Kerry has foreign policy experience

[Scoopie]

17. Kerry needs to concentrate on the homefront

which is where he polls best - on the domestic issues.

His VP needs to get our back doors in order.

[sandnsea]

22. Oh bull

If Kerry gets a homefront candidate, he can stop focusing on that and go to foreign policy himself. I was sold on his foreign policy long before his domestic or environmental stances. The President is the one the country expects to lead foreign policy. Kerry is going to have to bridge that poll gap all by himself, regardless of the VP choice. Maybe he can do it best if he doesn't have to worry about shoring up economic issues, so maybe a homefront VP is the best choice. Point being, it's for the campaign to decide the strategy that will win and the winning requires appealing to the majority of voters, not appeasing your personal peeves. Or mine.

[Skwmom]

29. The president and VP should be qualified to do both.

Is a substantive Democratic ticket to much to ask for?

[Darkamber]

33. A winning ticket is what we are asking for...

Kerry will be looking at the numbers and deciding what and who he needs. He is smart and he will make the right choice and I'll support whoever that pick is.

And I agree that the President is the one who should be leading this country on Foreign affairs not the VP. The VP is more for the home front and making visits to foreign heads of states on smaller matters.

We have all the experience that is needed at the top of the ticket and that is what will make the different. The bottom of the ticket will either compliment the top or bring in a few crucial voters.

[AP]

34. I think Edwards has a ton of substance.

[janx]

18. Yes indeed he does.

And so do scores of people who are possibilities in his general campaign.

[Skwmom]

28. What if something happens to Kerry?

Long gone are the days when a lightweight could be put on the ticket.

[janx]

30. Why do you ask this question?

n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Gotta say this, sorry

I know your feelings. I know you feel strongly. I understand the logic of your position. But I honestly don't think this is a good thread to be raising them in. This isn't a thread to debate the wisdom of what choice Kerry should make. It isn't even a thread to discuss what we will do if he makes the wrong one.

I conceed that I opened that door with some of my comments above about how the reaction to the VP choice is likely to play out. I accept responsibility for opening that door, and I am sorrry that I did. We can start a thread to talk about that stuff if we want to. This one is for expressing how we all feel about the VP debates as they have unfolded so far, not to actually have another one on.

[Scoopie]

27. And, as you can see

There are a few Democrats who don't want to hear that their perspective isn't the only one, either, even if I do agree with them that Bush sucks.
I was ABB the FIRST time, voting for McCain in the primaries and Gore in the general. I wanted Gore, but I could live with and do fine under a McCain Administration. Gore and McCain are smart, caring people - not like that dolt of a selected ape we have up there in our house.
Look, the VP wars have been flame bait from the beginning.
I have particpated because I view the top media pick as being a liability - and I'm in a part of the country that this person allegedly could win. I'm giving them a perspective the media doesn't give them and it's an HONEST perspective, even if they don't want to believe that. So I get flamed.
Yes, this is a place to discuss the heat of the VP discussions, but, in part, those discussions have centered around the very soul and direction of the Democratic Party.
There seem to be three factions:
1.) The Dems need to take back FP from the GOP; thus pick Clark, Biden, Graham or some other FP heavy weight to beat the GOP at its own game.
2.) Edwards - because he smiles a lot and is the best campaigner. Nevermind what he could or couldn't do in office - we gots to win.
3.) Same-old, same-old meat and potatoes candidates.

I happen to fall in the first category and have made no bones about it. I'm a product of where I live and, if the Dems want to take it all back from the neo-con grasp, then I am almost postitive that security is where the heart is in the heartland in this election year.
The pocketbook will always be for want, but the heart - well, it's still stuck under a pile of rubble 220 stories high (that's 110 X 2).

[JohnLocke]

20. Get over yourself already.

To say that you in some way represent independant voters with your ridiculous demands is absurd.

[Scoopie]

24. What in my statement was ridiculous?

That I don't like partisan politics? That I vote for a person and not a party?

Duh... I believe that's why most Independents are, well, independent.

[JI7]

25. many independents voted for Edwards, and Kerry

[Darkamber]

38. Exactly the point they are Independent...

They can not be considered in a group. What moves one might be totally different then what moves another.

Put a group of 100 independents in a room and you might have a hundred different things that they are looking for. You can play the percentages and go for the largest generality the most of them are looking for, but you can never label all of them in one group. It's why they are hard to poll.

You represent yourself and no one else.

[sandnsea]

21. Or the perspective of the left

or the green or the purple.

It's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to consider every single solitary point of view. And those who think it is are the ones who are dooming the Democratic Party and I'm sick of it. If you're just going to take your toys and go home if you don't get your own way, then this country deserves George Bush.

35. Scoopie, what's best for this country is

to get rid of Bush.

No third party candidate will/can do that.

I know there is some disillusionment, but if you want to help your country, then help the Dems de-throne the would-be King George.

You may feel like you're getting your hands dirty, but at least your conscious will be clean. :)

[Scoopie]

37. Thank you for your nice reply

This is the better way to "handle" (ha ha) someone like me who is so disillusioned with this whole process I'm nearly to the point where I just want to throw up my hands and say, "Cheney it!" (Ahem... LOL!)

I'm still not full court in the Dems' corner, but I'm definately NOT in Bush's end of the world.

I think Kerry's a smart man and I hope he goes for substance over style... or, if I had my druthers substance AND style. ;)

[Protected]

23. Well if we don't want to be devisive...

...why don't we all drop the Kerry thing and vote for Bush?

Sorry for the trollish comment, but the election is still months away. I'm sure once the VP slot is finalized we'll have a week of bickering and then we'll get down to uniting behind Kerry and his running mate. If it were late October and we were still moaning about why X wasn't chosen as VP, then I'd agree with you that there's a problem. At this point in time I really don't think it matters.

[flaminbats]

26. I agree...

Bush just doesn't have a prayer of winning. Voting for him would be the compassionate thing to do!

[Forkboy]

31. LMAO

You asked and the same cast of characters showed up to fight in this thread too :crazy:

Anyways,as you can see it's basically the same people over and over and over and over,arguing the same thing over and over and over and over.A lot like sports talk radio :)

[AP]

32. You can't say anything nice about Edwards without hearing certain people

brag about talking other people out of liking him.

36. It's not that its nasty...

it's just getting redundant. To frustrate matters more, its not even productive.

How many Clark vs Edwards polls can we run? What can be said about eithe of these candidates that hasn't been said numerous times?

Some amount of speculation is fun, but I think DU has had its fair share on this subject.

[janx]

39. That's putting it mildly.

;-)

[democratreformed]

40. Yes, it is really tiresome.

Of course, some will say just don't read the stuff. So, I try to stay away from it as much as possible. But, still, you just can't help it sometimes.

And you are right. It is not the least bit productive. Not at all.