Dean in three-way crossfire

[quinnox]

Lieberman, Gephardt, and Kerry are all going after Dean in a big way. I will gain some respect for Dean if his campaign can survive this heavy artillery. If Dean starts to fade because of these efforts, as well as the recent barrage of negative news stories from the media which seems to have turned against him, then it will be a good thing for the Dem party from the standpoint of electing the best, most formidable candidate to take on Junior. If Dean emerges relatively unscathed, then it will be a sign his campaign can take the heat.

[Lobo_13]

1. The problem here

is that Dean has been taking this crap for months already. From flurries of press releases from the Kerry/Gep tag team to anonymous (although I suppose Gep wishes they were a bit more anonymous) tv ads.

No one can pretend that this is the beginning of anything. It's just the continuance of a failing strategy.

[MarkTwain]

4. And, Might we respectfully remind you...

... what he did when the heat got too hot in the kitchen ?

He demanded that the chef, one Mr. McAuliffe, turn down the gas. Didn't he? The chef politely declined.

Not a good sign, is it, because if he couldn't deal with the last three months can you imagine what is going to happen now that the restaurant officially opens on Monday and the hunters are going to be out in full force gathering that game (his ass) for dinner?

[BeyondGeography]

7. He throws the first punch

then he runs to the ref to say, hey, I'm way ahead on points, shouldn't we think about stopping this thing?

The single dumbest move of the campaign. It turned insiders like Carville against him. But, of course, Carville's a whore.

[mouse7]

21. No... Washington Dems earned their contempt from voters

"...They're angry because the Republicans are getting away with murder and the Democrats have spent most of the last three years on the ropes. This explains why the Beltway boys, John Kerry, Joe Lieberman, John Edwards and Richard Gephardt, are not doing so well in the polls and are having trouble raising cash. They're the ones who rolled over and played dead while George W. Bush looted the Treasury, turned the government over to polluters and profiteers and took advantage of 9/11 to attack civil liberties and launch a half-cocked invasion of Iraq. That Mr. Dean is actually gauche enough to point this out galls them immensely...."

"...In their desperate attempt to stop Mr. Dean, party leaders may wind up weakening their chances in the fall. If he emerges damaged from the primaries, or falters and gives way to a weaker candidate like Wesley Clark or John Edwards, George W. Bush may be able to thank a few Democrats in his victory speech."

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/Stories/0,1413,101~6267~1868013,00.html

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. The list of whores gets longer and longer by the day: Clinton, Begala,

Carville, Michael Moore, Kucinich, Sharpton, Rangel, Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards, Graham (until he made nice with Howard again), Hillary (she might endorse Clark and "secretly" likes him), Clark, James Clyburn (endorsed Gephardt), anyone who endorsed anybody except Dean, any journalists that have criticized Howard (including Will Pitt), and anyone who supports any of the above people. Gore's off the hook because he endorsed Howard.

How dare any of those people criticize Howard or endorse/say anything nice about another candidate. How dare those politicians act in a political manner? What do they think .... that they're competing in a political primary or soemthing??? Of all the nerve....

[Woodstock]

8. Dean didn't expect McAuliffe to DO anything - that would have been a first

He knows McAuliffe is Inept City. He merely used the opportunity to get a well-timed jab into McAuliffe, which I applaud. It's a game, and Dean played his card. McAuliffe is one huge failure. After 2002, he should have DEFINTELY stepped down. The Democrats will succeed in 2004 despite him, not because of him.

And I felt this way before I knew who Howard Dean was.

[BeyondGeography]

9. A well-timed jab?

That's absurd. Dean simply made a fool of himself. He also made a factually inaccurate statement about how Ron Brown never would have let this happen. Well many party leaders have come forward to say the 1992 campaign, which took place during Brown's tenure as head of the DNC, was much harder on Bill Clinton than this campaign has been on Howard. And Brown did nothing, nor did the Big Dog ask him to.

When you shut up and take your lumps, you have a much better chance to unify the party if you win. But party unity (they're all cockroaches and sellouts anyway, right?) doesn't even register on your radar screen.

[pasadenaboy]

27. the more you guys think he makes a fool of himself

the higher he gets in the polls.

[madfloridian]

32. A fool?

No, Dean did not make a fool of himself. He did not.

[LuminousX]

47. they're all cockroaches and sellouts anyway, right?

Yeah, all the congressional Democrats who have endorsed Dean have really bought into that rhetoric.

Keep spinning it, maybe one day they'll believe it.

[readmylips]

16. Yes...yes...yes... I Agree

That is exactly what Dean was doing. Pointing out to all democrats that McCauliffe is a jerk. I'm glad I was not the only one thinking like this.

[aldian159]

37. Agreed.

Whose more inept, McAuliffe or Daschle as a leader?

[Lobo_13]

33. Selective memory

or did you just not tune in until recently?

These attacks have been coming for months before Dean pointed out McAulliffs failures as the DNC head.

This has been going on since mid to late summer.

but this is just another example of how childish some people can be.

They push and push and push and push at Dean, then when he finally pushes back, they run to mommy crying about how Dean pushed them.

"The trouble all started when he hit me back."

edit: Mark Twain would have been a Dean supporter.

[Jerseycoa]

5. Dean's been giving crap, too

Why shouldn't he take it?

[hellhathnofury]

11. Will the general be joining?

I've got no problem with blood but I want it on everyone's hands.

[madfloridian]

2. Thanks for enjoying it so much.

.

[quinnox]

3. lol

Ha ha

[madfloridian]

15. Your laughter said it all, didn't it.

It shows the contempt toward us. I don't think that will go away. I think it probably won't.

[quinnox]

19. Not contempt, but amusement

Hey, I found your statement funny. Don't take things so seriously! It's a good thing to have some new year cheer.

And yes, I am enjoying the process of the political race immensely.

[chimpymustgo]

6. And considering how generously Dr. Dean dished it out...

it's stunning how he can't take it.

This a man who made his name kicking, scratching and attacking the other candidates.

[pacifictiger]

10. children please

dont get caught up in a sideline brawl and forget where the goalpost is.

[newyawker99]

39. Hi pacifictiger!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Scott Lee]

12. You must be thinking of some other candidate.

You see, Dean grows stronger with every attack - evidence his continued rise in the polls (see the most recent CNN poll), kick-ass record setting fundraising and continued frontrunner status.

That doesn't much look like a man who "can't take it" if you ask me.

[salin]

13. and were that to be the case...

(your final statement)... would or could you admit it? ;-)

[quinnox]

22. heh, we will see

n/t

[madfloridian]

14. You know, there is only so much heat any candidate can take.

No matter the frontrunner, the attacks will continue. When I said, I am glad you guys found this funny, I really should have said it was sad.

You can put me down, you can put the rest of his supporters down. You do it all the time.

What have you gained? You have gained more attacks from both sides on the frontrunner. The GOP do not attack their own, not like this.

There is hatred toward the Dean supporters here, and it began a while ago. Spin it anyway you wish.

There will be only losers this way. When things get this bad, there are no winners.

[BeyondGeography]

17. The GOP do not attack their own?

Another "I was born yesterday" moment from the Dean crowd...See the Bush/McCain files, South Carolina primary, circa 2000. If Howard rattles under Dem fire, why should we have any confidence about him going up against Team Rove?

[madfloridian]

18. Those were lies about McCain.

That is what I see happening here. There will be lies. McCain only had Bush he was running against. Everyone is staying in the race to attack Dean with impunity.

Thanks so much for putting me down again. Dean followers are so stupid, so naive, so ignorant.

You win for today. I bow out of the hatred.

You win.

[BeyondGeography]

23. A little sensitive?

Sorry about the slam. Look, there's winning and there's winning ugly. If Howard ends up taking this thing, his chore in the GE will be a lot easier if he starts displaying more class than he showed this week. Howard is not an island.

[madfloridian]

25. Sorry about the slam?

No, I doubt it.
There is a difference between being thin-skinned and having fears for our party.

There is a difference.

[BeyondGeography]

30. Howard cares about himself

over the party. All politicians do, and Howard is a masterful politician, among the most ambitious we have in the country. The little bit about "non-transferable" voters showed exactly where his heart lies.

[madfloridian]

31. I care about truth and honor now more than anything else.

Since our country invaded another country illegally in the eyes of the world, we have lost so much. I care about getting back the honor and dignity we once had.

You go ahead and make fun of us, you go ahead and attack him all you want. This is more than about just an election. It is about not letting Bush romp all over us anymore!

It may be a bumpy road ahead.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

20. You're right

This is where we will really start to see whether Dean is a strong enough candidate or not. If he survives the onslaught, I think it will make some people reconsider whether or not he can withstand the GOP barrage.

[Cha]

24. Stay the Course, Dean! Steady as

She Blows!

[chimpymustgo]

26. The truth about Howie...

He is revealing himself daily. It's almost self-destructive. Gaffe after gaffe. Stupid statement upon absurd charge.

But at least Dems are finding out now, rather than later.

[arewethereyet]

28. better watch the nicknames, its against the rules but you're right

Dr Dean is self destructing and the voters see it.

[MercutioATC]

34. Well, your "respect" for Dean's campaign doesn't concern me, based on

your previous posts. I applaud your ability to take a months-old situation (the Lieberban/Kerry/Gep....oh, and you left out Kucinich...attacks on Dean), wrap it in a "question" and keep the thread open.

Show me an attack that Dean hasn't effectively dealt with. His saving grace is that, whether you agree with ALL of what he says or not, he tells the truth and people FEEL that he's telling the truth.

I agree that we need the strongest Dem candidate to take Bush on and if Dean's campaign can't handle the attacks, they probably don't have what it takes in the general. I'm committed to ABB, and I believe that Dean is our best chance of making that happen.

[JNelson6563]

35. Hear! Hear!!

Well said!

Julie

[MiniMoog]

36. Respectfully, Dr Dean has issues with "correcting" himself

You said: "he tells the truth and people FEEL that he's telling the truth."

This is a story from Today's LA Times, Saturday, Jan 3
Section, The Nation - Page A16

Dean Wrestles with the Questions of Faith

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dean3jan03,1,7584112.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

I'll offer a brief quote as I haven't seen this posted. I do want to stress that I am not attempting to be cagy. I am, rather, mystified at this.

This story is about Dr. Dean's new openess regarding his faith. It was conducted on his campaign plane and the much reported stops in North Carolina to stump a less reservered faith-based message. He is recounting being moved on his trip to Galilee.

"If you know much about the Bible -- which I do -- to see and be in the place where Christ was...is an exceptional experience," Dean said.

"When asked about his favorite book in the New Testament, Dean first cited the Book of Job, which is in the Old Testament and is the story of a pious man whose possessions are stolen and children killed before God ultimately restores his good fortune.

"Dean corrected himself about an hour after the interview ended, returning to the front of the plane to tell reporters he misspoke when he said the book was in the New Testament.

"When pressed for his favorite book in the New Testament, he cited the Gospels."

On the surface this appears miniscule. A blip. But I would like your opinion on Dean's "truthfullness" here as an admitted person who "know much about the Bible."

With even a cursory read of the Bible this comment strikes me as peculiar. It is my "opinion" that he was winging it.

MiniMoog

[Rose Siding]

40. Another dang humanoid!

70 speeches a week, 24 interviews a day for months on end and the correct Testament doesn't roll, instantaneously, off his lips?! When will the man get his press game face? You know, the one where he can rattle on for minutes at a time without really saying anything, rarely accessed of course, for maximum precaution.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

44. the correct Testament? there are only 2!

Dean's either pretty dopey or he is BS'ing about his bible study.

[MercutioATC]

41. I guess I should clarify...

I completely agree that Dean misspeaks more than...well...any of the other candidates. I perceive most of these instances to be minor.

However, I think that it's his whole demeanor, INCLUDING his occasional mistakes, that make people trust that he's not reciting some canned rhetoric, but telling people what he really thinks.

He makes mistakes..yes. I cringe sometimes...yes. However, I know that I feel that I know what he really thinks. I feel that he's being straight with me, even if he has difficulties expressing it eloquently at times.

I guess the real issue is that I don't feel that it comes form any falsity on his part. I think that he speaks his mind...perhaps too quickly at times.

[stickdog]

38. Lieberman, Gephardt, and Kerry have all destroyed their own campaigns

with their relentless negative attacks of Dean.

So, other than helping Bush in general election, what exactly is the point of their incessantly strident negativity?

[creativelcro]

43. Dean's move was really smart

The one when he asked who would endorse whomever the nominee is and forced everybody to raise their hand. That was awesome.

[creativelcro]

42. Dean did very well.

The attacks did not stick at all...

[adamrsilva]

45. But see if Clark was being attacked by these 3

he'd be hurt too, so it doesn't really tell us anything about who can best take on Bush.

[LuminousX]

46. The other problem

if we rely upon the crucible analogy, if Dean does fade whoever replaces him won't have gone through the crucible.

[Hep]

48. Bunch o' Crap

I find it improbable that you will ever have respect for Dean, his campaign, or his supporters.