Nader is a dangerous egomaniac and should be imprisoned.

[ulysses]

There.

Now, let's discuss the reasons he was ever relevant in the first place.

Founded in the mid-1980s with essentially the same purpose as the Christian Coalition--to pull a broad political party dramatically to the right--the DLC has been far more successful than its headline-grabbing Republican counterpart. After Walter Mondale's 1984 defeat at the hands of Ronald Reagan, a group of mostly Southern, conservative Democrats hatched the theory that their party was in trouble because it had grown too sympathetic to the agendas of organized labor, feminists, African Americans, Latinos, gays and lesbians, peace activists, and egalitarians.

http://www.progressive.org/nich1000.htm

After four straight election cycles of campaigning on an agenda pretty much limited to promising the moon on prescription drugs and attacking Republicans on Social Security, it's time for the congressional wing of the party, and the political consultants who have relentlessly promoted this message as an electoral silver bullet, to bury it once and for all. It has always conveyed the impression that Democrats had little to say on the entire domestic agenda of the nation beyond pandering to seniors, and it has never succeeded in securing a majority.

We agree with the many Democrats who are saying that the party needs a bigger, bolder, clearer agenda and message. But we disagree with those who are saying the party should achieve that clarity simply by moving to the left, creating partisan differentiation at any cost, and engaging in more negative campaigning against the President and Republicans in order to energize the Democratic base.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=250995

[eurolefty]

1. Why he should be imprisoned?

What sort of crime has he committed? Sorry, I'm not up to date with the American minor party politics.

[ulysses]

2. well, because he's the worst sort of traitor, of course.

I mean, imagine the gall! Running for president? Honestly, he should probably be shot.

Of course, we'll never, ever get to discuss why he was relevant in the first place, but so what?

[eurolefty]

11. democracy, anyone?

Over here we usually have something like six candidates. We call it democracy. It's kind of cool, maybe you guys should try it too. :evilgrin:

[ulysses]

12. see, we don't believe in that kind of thing.

We're perfectly happy with two parties, and in fact we've sent a lot of our kids overseas to die in defense of the two-party system. They've done it happily.

[LoZoccolo]

3. Oh yeah, progressive.org's paraphrase of their agenda isn't biased at all.

And yeah, the DLC's first win didn't do anything for gays and lesbians.

:eyes:

[ulysses]

6. did you even bother opening the link?

Neither John Nichols nor the Progressive make any claims towards non-bias. The DLC shouldn't.

And what, exactly, *did* Clinton do for gays and lesbians?

[LoZoccolo]

8. Gays in the military.

That was one of the first things he did.

[ulysses]

10. erm..."don't ask, don't tell"?

Thanks for playing.

[ibegurpard]

25. Oh, Good God!

What a fucking useless waste-of-political-capital-fiasco! It would have been better to do nothing! To be fair, however, I blame gay lobbying groups for putting pressure on Clinton to try to do this. Why on earth does it makes sense to try to change the most homophobic institution in American Society when, at the time, half the states still had sodomy laws on the books and there were very few state and civic employment and housing protections (and NO federal ones) for gays and lesbians? Americans also would have been much more supportive of these things than trying to force the military to accept gays and lesbians. I'm still pissed about this.

[LoZoccolo]

4. P.S. Your entire post says nothing about Nader...

...nor does it respond to the numerous weird unstrategic things he's done that have been pointed out.

[ulysses]

7. sure it does!

"Nader is a dangerous egomaniac and should be imprisoned"

I thought that was pretty clear myself...

[ulysses]

19. P.S. you haven't addressed my point

about why Nader was relevant in the first place. Not that I expected you to do so.

[LoZoccolo]

21. Because you were acting arrogant and dodging, I gave up.

You know as well as I do that Nader seems to have myriad problems outside of anything that the DLC does.

[ulysses]

22. please forgive me.

We're agreed that Nader is a terrible waste of good carbon. Was the arrogance in the suggestion that his candidacies might actually have been in reaction to something? I have more sackcloth and ashes should that be the case. I am your penitent.

[LoZoccolo]

23. Phone's for you, ulysses...

...some guy named Dick Cheney.

[ulysses]

24. gee, that's clever.

:eyes:

C'mon, Zoccolo, we're all united here to beat soundly upon the corpse of the left. Surely you can be more clever than that in the service of centrism!

[LoZoccolo]

30. The two things - Nader, and what his candidacy stands for - are linked.

You can't be sure if his candidacy is in reaction to anything because:

- He doesn't make much sense, so you don't know how to appease him.
- He tells a lot of lies, so you can't really tell where he stands or what he's really trying to do.

Seeing there's all this ambiguity in his run, I can't really say much about what he's reacting to, or even if he was reacting to the DLC, I can't figure out what he's trying to accomplish doing what he's doing. Of course there's this alternate egomaniac explanation which may cover some of that. So the two things are linked. I'm sorry I took this long to say anything about it and misunderstood that you agreed on that. But they are almost the same thing.

[LoZoccolo]

5. P.P.S. Give me one reason you'd vote for Nader instead of me.

There isn't one.

[ulysses]

9. since I'm not voting for Nader this year

your question seems moot.

13. Hey I knew that

responses to your post kind of make me remember when my father used to teach and he'd have people read A Modest Proposal and people would get all pissed off at this guy who was advocating such terrible things.

[ulysses]

14. gotta love Swift

:D

[GreenInNC]

15. sounds very Republican

Maybe this is in the Patriot Act somewhere--- "A person may not exercise their First Amendment right to free speech and/or run for President even if said person has such right spelled out in the Constitution. Such person shall be deamed an egomanic and thrown in prison"

I don't plan on voting for Nader but he has every right in the world to run for President. Says so in the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

[ulysses]

17. no, friend. you missed the part

of the Constitution where it says that a candidate for president can represent only one of the two major parties. It's in there somewhere. Trust me.

Nader must be imprisoned for the good of the country.

[ibegurpard]

16. You wimp!

He should be crucified!!!
:P

[ulysses]

18. emasculate the bastard!

Nothing's too good! Rrrawr!

[ulysses]

20. no hallelujahs from the choir?

I mean, c'mon - I'm trying to get with the hip crowd. Surely someone would like to testify about how those freaks on the leftist fringe should shut up and be happy with what they get!

[ulysses]

27. come now, noble truth-bearers!

There's nothing to fear in a discussion of The Evil One relative to the DLC, surely.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. Oh, now stop this nonsense! *little slap on the wrist*

:D

[jpgray]

28. Told you.

;-)

[ulysses]

29. EEEEEVIIIIIILLLLLL!

:)

[mzmolly]

31. I haven't an issue with Nader running for Prez. I have an issue with the

lying hypocritical BS about why he's running.

In 2000 he ran to "punish the democrats." This year he claims on the one hand that he's running to send Bush back to Texas. And on the other hand he says he's running as an alternative to Kerry.

One week he says "Go to my rallys, but vote for John Kerry" and the next he criticizes Greens for a safe state strategy?

My issue isn't with Nader running for office, it's with Nader period. There are MANY third party candidates running, they have my blessing. But, Nader shall be called on his shit as long as I'm alive and kicking. ;)

[zulchzulu]

32. Instead, ask him to join the team to beat Bush

Rat's chance in hell...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I Just Wish He'd Go Away....

I find his vanity run kind of pathetic...


I can live through four more years of Bush but I shudder for the prospects for our nation...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. I Don't Really Understand The Schism Between Hyphenated Democrats....

Besides our opposition to the Simian In Chief I doubt there's very much that holds us together...


I am a market oriented Democrat who favors a unilateralist foreign policy...On social issues I am practically a liberterian...

[Mr.Green93]

35. not prison

a re=education center would be more appropriate

[GreenInNC]

36. reeducation center

and they worked so well in China, Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea

[lojasmo]

37. This thread isnonsense N/T