How Dean can beat Bush

[LiberalBushFan]

Ok, first I'll say that I personally think we all need to unite behind LaRouche, otherwise you're just doing Rove's work for him. But in case Dean does win the nomination, in light of his statement that Cheney would be his model VP, despite disagreeing with almost everything he says (http://www.gaypasg.org/Press%20Clippings/July%202002/Is%20It%202004%20Yet.htm), there's one way we can win this.

So, here's what I think of the Dean/Cheney possibility:
1. Would Cheney accept?
Well, if he doesn't, then he might end up with no power if Dean somehow wins. If he does, he's VP no matter what! So of course he'll accept!

2. How does Cheney help Dean amongst Repubs, swing voters, rich snobs?
Every swing voter who's uncomfortable with Dean's foreign policy image would be soothed in this case, and rich people would be less wary of voting of Dean knowing that two of their own are on the ticket.

3. How would this team attract Dems?
One common myth is that the majority of registered Dems are really Dems. But if you look at the total number of Clark, Kerry, Gep, Lieberman, and Edwards supporters, who are all closet Republicans, the number of REAL democrats like Howard Dean is rather miniscule. So this ticket would be in GREAT shape!

Now, do we start making the new Dean/Cheney signs or what!!

[KC21304]

1. I would say yea ! Go ahead. Get right on that.

Is it possible you mispelled your name ?

On second read you make a lot of sense. Sorry I didn't take it as seriously as I should have. Your're a hoot.

[Jerseycoa]

2. "Cheney would be his model VP"

I can't imagine Dean said this.

[Jerseycoa]

3. You're right!

I can't believe he said that, but he did. Sorry I doubted you. :)

[BeyondGeography]

4. I'm starting to like this Howard guy

I mean, he's capable of saying so many things that can be misinterpreted and used against him. What a standard-bearer he'll be!

[Geeky_boy]

5. The Party of Drunken Sailors

Could the Democratic nominee steal a philosophy of fiscal responsibility from the Repugs just as they stole massive increases in Medicare spending and became the party of Big Government?

"It was probably inevitable that a big central government would look better to Republicans when they got control of it."

"Late 20th-century Republicanism was an uneasy alliance of social conservatives, who were comfortable with government intervention in citizens' lives when it came to morality issues, and libertarians, who wanted as little interference as possible. That balancing act ended on Sept. 11, 2001."

"The modern party's key allegiance is to corporate America, and its tolerance for intrusive federal government ends when big business is involved."

"Republicans have always enjoyed their reputation as the champions of business. The difference now is that they no longer couple their business-friendly attitudes with fiscal tight-fistedness. Discretionary spending has jumped 27 percent in the last two years; budget hawks complain that congressional pork is up more than 40 percent. Some of that money has gone to buy the loyalty of wavering party members in the closely divided House and Senate, but much is directly tied to the demands of big business."

Read: A new Republican style
http://www.iht.com/articles/122978.html

[Nicholas_J]

6. Well given the data in the latest CNN poll comparing Dean to Bush

CNN/Time Poll conducted by Harris Interactive. Dec. 30, 2003-Jan. 1, 2004. N=604 likely voters nationwide. MoE ± 4.





All Voters

Bush 55 %

Dean 35 %

Depends 3%

None/Wont Vote 1%

Dont Know 6%


Republicans

Bush 91%

Dean 3%

Depends 2%

None/Wont Vote 0%

Dont Know 4%


Democrats

Bush 20%

Dean 70%

Depends 2%

None/Wont Vote 1%

Dont Know 7%


Independent


Bush 57%

Dean 28%

Depends 3%

None/Wont Vote 1%

Dont Know 11%


http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

So overall, If Dean is the nominee, 20 percent of registered Democrats would vote for Bush, but only 3 percent of Republicans would vote for Dean.

More than twice many independent swing voters would vote for Bush
as would vote for Dean ( 58 percent Bush 28 percent Dean).

Even if all of the depends/none..wont vote and don't know voters among independents went over to Dean:

Bush would still get more of the independent swing voters...


And if all of the depends/none..wont vote and don't know voters among Democrats went over to Dean:

Bush would get 20 percent of the Democratic Voters.


And if all of the depends/none..wont vote and don't know voters among Republicans went over to Dean:

9 percent of Republicans would vote for Dean...


It does not appear that Dean does not have a substantial grasp on the independent swing voter, and that right now, this group prefers George Bush to Howard Dean.

And one out of five democrats prefers George Bush to Howard Dean.

Really one must justify that statement that all registered Democrats are not Democrats but really Republicans if they do not support Dean.

One must also remember that Dean had a great deal of Republican supprt as Governor of Vermont, and out of all of the Democratic Presidential candidates, only Dean has ever had a formal group "Democrats for Dean" established to support his past political campaigns:

Some Republicans back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER - Democratic Gov. Howard Dean got a boost from the other side Thursday when a group of prominent Republicans turned out to support his re-election bid.

Led by South Burlington attorney William Gilbert, a core group of 11 Republicans said they believed Dean has proven his ability to lead the state in a fiscally responsible direction and for that reason, and his nine years of experience, he is their choice over GOP candidate Ruth Dwyer...


Even Dean acknowledged that his fiscal policy was the common ground he shared with the nine men and two women at the table, most of whom admitted to voting for Dean in the last election.

The group, known as "Republicans for Dean" represents the first organized GOP endorsement for Dean in any of his five campaigns.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html

Top GOP will stick with Dwyer, but some back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

...Meanwhile, a group of Republicans headed by William Gilbert of Burlington is expected to announce their support for Dean this week.

"An awful lot of moderate Republicans feel as I do, that the best candidate is the person with the most experience and the capacity to govern Vermont - that person is Howard Dean," Gilbert said. "It's the people of Vermont who come first, not the party..."


Carl Spangler, another veteran of the Snelling administration who served as commissioner of housing and community affairs, is one of them.

Spangler, a vice president with the American Skiing Co., said he joined the committee because of Dean's record on issues such as travel and tourism.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/gop_dean.html


William Gilbert was an executive for a Vermont Energy Utility and was the head of the group of Energy executives who Dean reputedly had advising him on Vermont Energy policy and was involved in the decision to suddenly change the sale of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Plant to Entergy/Koch Industries when this company placed a last minute bid to but the plant.

Spangler was involved with some of the decisions that resulted in Dean's purge of the Vermont Environmental Board of four of Deans own appointees after they began to disagree with Dean's methods to get around standard procedures for meeting environmental regulations when getting permits for new projects.

But it seems that what applied in Vermont, Dean getting a great deal of support from Republicans (and a good deal less from Democrats, as by 2002, when Dean left office, about 45 percent of the registered Vermont Voters left the Democratic Party and joined the progressive party which has pretty much prevented Democrats from winning any high level offices in Vermont)

Perhaps rather than long term Democrats who have been attacked by Republican based organizations, and have been given the worse ratings by various conservative based organizations(After the death of Paul Wellstone, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry are considered the most liberal and anti-conservative elected officials in Washington, and have been given the poorest grades by conservative organizations for their entire politica careers, while Howard Dean was given "B" ratings by the conservative Cato Institute got most of the years he served as Governor. Kerry has been given F's by the Cato Institute for his entire political Career, as well as Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt and Dennis Kucinich).


Those Republicans who supported Deans campaign in 2000, also gave lost of support for the Bush campaign in 2000, so the same people who backed Dean for governor, backed Bush for president, and it looks like that given the choice, those Republicans who supported Dean for Governor, are not supporting his presidential bid.

And finally a last at An opinion voiced by Deans own long time economic and political advisor:

"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.

(St. Petersburg Times, July 6, 2003)



http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/DVNS_Howard-Dean.htm


Harlan Sylvester has been Deans economic and political advisor for nearly 30 years backing Deans entire political career from the first time he ran for office.

[Moderator]

7. Locking.......

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