The biggest problem I have always had with Senator Clinton was her IWR

[still_one]

and how for over a year after that vote she would not admit it was a mistake.

That vote over-rode the War Powers Act, which called on Congressional oversight if the executive branch involves itself in a military engagement with another country

There were enough Democrats who didn't vote for that resoluton.

The Kyle/Lieberman ammendment, though non-binding, also was disturbing. It effectively said that as long as Iran is considered a "threat", we will remain in Iraq.

Senator Clinon says she will get us out of Iraq, but how can I trust that position when she voted for the Kyle/Lieberman ammendment which contradicts that position.

It is because of those two votes why I didn't support Clinton as the nominee.

Hopefully, this should be a strong message to ALL candidates, that going to war is serious business, and not an act of political strategy because it is perceived that the citizens supported that action at the time.

Iraq DIDN'T have WMDs
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
There was no connection between Saddam and al queada

Those Democrats, and a few republicans in Congress who voted AGAINST the IWR, realized that to give the president the authority to engage in war without Congressional oversight was a travisty

There is no question in my mind, that it was those votes that turned me against Senator Clinton being the Democratic nominee

[book_worm]

1. that was always my biggest issue with her--until this campaign

and race baiting statements and saying that the GOP candidate was ready to be commander in chief but the fellow democrat wasn't. At that point I had had enough of her.

[lojasmo]

3. Yup. IWR, then Kyl, then this disasterous campaign.

She did herself in.

[still_one]

7. I agree that was disgusting, and the worst form of pandering to people's lowest values

I suspect those votes on the IWR and Kyle/Lieberman ammendment were also a form of pandering rather than conviction, but I don't know for sure, and I can only base my judgement on what I know

When bush said he would appoint judges like scalia and thomas, there was no reason not to believe him

mccain has made similar statements, and there is no reason not to believe him either

[Kahuna]

2. I totally concur. If not for that vote, she'd be the Dem nominee today. nt

[nevergiveup]

15. Absolutely

and without that vote for the war the ticket we would be all excited about today would probably be Clinton/Obama. But if we are honest with ourselves we must admit that her vote for the war really did define who she was and her race bating today further defines her. It is not a pretty picture. The question today is not whether Obama can defeat McCain but rather will Hillary have the dignity to bow out gracefully or will she drag Obama down with her. I do not feel very good about what is transpiring. We should all be celebrating our nominee but instead we are once again embroiled in Clinton drama. Damn, it is enough to make a good liberal a tad bitter.

[still_one]

16. Very well put /nt

[ingac70]

4. She needs to know that is what cost her....

her bid to be the Dem nominee. Someone needs to shout in her face loud and clear "If you weren't such a blood thirsty warmonger, you woulda been President!!"

[still_one]

13. Certain actions should have consequences. I hope we learn this time

The first thing that needs to be done when the Democrats take Congress back in 2008 is repeal the IWR

[TacticalPeek]

5. The biggest problem I have always had with your position

is that in 2004 you supported and voted for John Kerry. And John Edwards.

You did, didn't you?

[RazBerryBeret]

9. I did...

because I had no other choice. Had there been a Dem I could have voted for who didn't vote for the IWR, I would've. the same way I would've voted for Clinton if I HAD to....but now I have a choice.

[still_one]

10. Actually, I supported Howard Dean. Though when Kerry became the nominee

I did support him. Incidently, Kerry and Edwards BOTH admitted that the IWR was a mistake

[TacticalPeek]

17. Actually, you supported and voted for Kerry and Edwards, and both voted for the IWR.

The idea that their later apologizing for their vote would gain them support from the left, I find rather disturbingly close to 'denouncing' the right positions and people depending on the party line at the time.

[still_one]

18. They did more than just apologize. They also voted against additional funding of the war

Also, the last eight years, and my experience during the Viet Nam War has changed me big time

I have major problems rewarding someone who voted for the IWR, and yes, that includes Kerry and Edwards.

I can't tell you what I will do, but I am extremely disappointed that very little has been learned since Viet Nam

[JVS]

19. Same here. I also was not enthusiastic about Kerry/Edwards

[Tribetime]

6. This is my #1 issue also

in picking a candidate. My #2 issue was not taking campaign money from corporations. Obama is the obvious choice. BTW it doesn't hurt that he's young, energetic, good looking, inspires people, and is getting millions of new voters to join us.

[grantcart]

8. It seems as if it was done for political consideration to protect her right flank for the election

that perception whether true or not probably cost her the nomination very ironic.

[still_one]

12. I suspect that to, but voting to go to war to "protect your right flank" has consequences /nt

[SaveAmerica]

20. This is what I didn't understand: why didn't she take note of the polls showing 70% of America

against the Iraq war and for an orderly and timely withdrawal of the troops from Iraq? I, too, thought she was making a political move but if so, it was made without taking new data into consideration. Some have said they (the Clintons) still live in a 90's mindset, maybe that's how they could have underestimated the country's feelings on Iraq?

[tabasco]

11. The irony for the Dems who voted for the IWR.

They thought it would make themselves look strong but it made them look weak.

Morally weak. They caved in and took the easy wrong over the hard right.

They did what they did for themselves and voted against the People of the USA and the People of Iraq.

Every thinking person in the world knew that Bush was not planning on using diplomacy and was dead-set on having his war.

Completely unforgivable. For all of them.

I have regained some respect for those who admitted it was a mistake, but not a lot.

[still_one]

14. That is the most important lesson. I agree, those who came out within a year

realizing it was a mistake what they did, do deserve acknowledgement, especially since the game being played at that time was that the "war was a success"

[retread]

21. I disagree. I think her most grievous vote was against Senate Amendment No. 4882:

To quote

" Sec. 8109. No funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act my be obligated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or camps or groups of nomads."

Senator Clinton voted against banning the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. Her vote was not against banning the use of cluster bombs altogether. To be fair, she was not the only Democratic Senator to vote in this way.
Her opponent, Senator Obama, voted to ban cluster bombs in civilian areas.

I take the above vote as a major clue to how each would govern. One decided her vote on Amendment No. 4882 according to a political calculation. The other used a moral calculation.