Why would Obama want to raise corporate taxes...

[ginchinchili]

at a time when corporations, and American jobs, are already leaving our country in record numbers? Most other nations give their companies bigger tax breaks than we do American companies. Where is the logic in that?

[Eric J in MN]

1. Link to what Obama said? NT

NT

[mac2]

2. Let them go and see if we do business with them?

We are one of the largest markets in the world. The others have more people but we have wealth.

They live here and the CEO must be asked to leave if they don't want to contribute to the running of our country. No slackers here.

[ginchinchili]

8. China's GDP is at 10.6 %. Ours is at .6 % Think about it.

[Hutzpa]

24. Nothing to think about here

you guys have had nearly *yrs to make enough money and nearly
bring down the American economy.... no more, besides....
with all the low corporate rate tax they still took the jobs
overseas.

Loosing argument here...

[ginchinchili]

30. "You guys"?

It hasn't helped me any. We should all be looking as these issues strictly from the position of what is best for America. I'm certainly not concerned about wealthy CEOs making more money. I have big issues with that, and my argument is similar, give more money to the workers. But we don't want to encourage American corporations to leave the US and take with them our jobs. You shouldn't support any candidate on any issue simply because he or she takes that position. Oftentimes politicians take positions that might be wrong, but sound good and help them get elected. We need to encourage business to stay here in the States.

[mac2]

47. People worked longer hours, took less benefits and pay

but the CEOs (for their own profit) took them off-shore. It was plain robbery of American jobs, technology, patents, markets, and wealth. Nothing free trade about it. Nor fair.

[tabasco]

31. LOL. Let's be more like China.

Time to stop worrying about corporations and start worrying about PEOPLE.

Giveaways to the wealthy is what got us into this shit-hole, genius.

[FogerRox]

38. Correct, When corporate tax rates were higher, we worked our waqy thru the Republican Depression

won WW2, and built the best educated middle class in the history of the world, based on hi tax rates.

My Parents got thru the Depression with a progressive income tax, we won WW2 with a progressive income tax. The 12 million men & woman that served in the military in WW2 came home, the GI Bill sent vets to college, and they started families. This created the largest, most vigorous and the best educated middle class, in the history of the planet. Labor unions were at the zenith of their power, our educational institutions were the envy of the world, corporations made money, the wealthiest made money.

[FogerRox]

36. Those growth numbers are directly related to infrastructure spending, think about that.

...yawn...

[mac2]

46. Most of the Chinese are dirt poor.

The few elite not as rich as our billionaires but working toward it.

[hokies4ever]

51. China's corporation taxes range from 15% to 31%

'The Google' is your friend. Please educate yourself.

[mac2]

54. Under the Clinton tax increases we saw prosperity not

failures like under Bush tax cuts.

[wearethedream]

3. There is simply no logic in that

[Thrill]

4. Hillary and Obama have the same policy on this.

[mac2]

49. Ya they got theirs...just like those who came before them

since Reagan.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. its the right thing to do. corp are not starving. people are starving.

[ginchinchili]

6. How will losing their job help?

[tokenlib]

9. You are missing the point--the point is to remove incentives for them to go overseas...

Provide incentives for them to stay here in the USA. Right now the system makes it too easy for them to go for cheap labor...

[tokenlib]

10. delete

[union_maid]

13. Obama is interested in keeping jobs here

He's talking about tax incentives for companies that keep jobs here. At this time there is no incentive for that. Are you sure you're a Clinton supporter? 'Cause these talking points sound a lot more like Republican ones. I believe Clinton has seen the light on some of this. That would only leave McCain as the owner of that point of view.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. i agree and i support clinton. i dont believe american corporations are outsourcing

because they need to.

[ginchinchili]

32. Wanting to keep jobs in America is a Republican talking point?

It used to be considered a Democratic talking point.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. you are assuming corporations are outsourcing because they are not competitive otherwise

i dont think this is accurate

they are outsourcing because of greed. sure a certain amount of outsourcing might be necessary but mostly its a greed related issue.

[Lorien]

18. Can you PROVE that raising taxes on corporations FORCES them to cut jobs?

Most corporations are lean and mean to begin with-they pay millions in CEO salaries and benefits. The CEOs can afford to take a cut in their multi-million dollar pay. Services still need to be provided, products still need to be made, and tax revenues can be turned into new infrastructure and teachers salaries.TAXES pay for JOBS. How about slamming bad corporations with special offshoring taxes for those that ship jobs elsewhere, and giving good corporations a cut for job creation within the US?

[lligrd]

27. Exactly! And Great Idea About Offshoring Tax nt

[FogerRox]

40. corporate tax increases in the dpression helped create jobs

The Author is seriously lacking in history and civics.

[mac2]

57. Only a few Bush recruiting agencies find those CEOs...

It was in the WSJ. They raise the salaries, benefits, etc. saying those are they few can run companies. That is manipulation and fraud. It is not true. There are many CEOs who would take less salary and do a better job. CEOs aren't the owners or risk takers so they lose little if the company fails. Why the high salaries even if they fail?

[mac2]

50. Corporations are people and their labor.

They produce the product and service. They buy the service or product. The profit pays them. Lincoln worried about the power of corporations. He was a corporate lawyer back in Illinois for the railroads.

Lincoln may have been fearful of what we have today. Jefferson certainly was.

Corporations

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to
tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of
corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will
endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until
the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed."

Abraham Lincoln
Source:http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Abraham.Lincoln.Quote.4F97

http://soundingcircle.com/newslog2.php/__show_article/_a000195-000205.htm- Jefferson and Madison.

The revolution in America was about corporate abuse by Britain. How could we forget such an important enemy as corporate power?

[tokenlib]

7. I hope he gets the Cayman Islands address list as well.....

Every last supposed American company that "headquarters" in the Caymans and other tax havens needs to be prosecuted--and if the laws do not exist--they need to be legislated to get these bastards...

[mac2]

53. And our "friends" the British who are protectorates of the

Caymans reminded they are protecting criminals. Bush money laundered through the Caymans to pay off his election thugs. The least the British Queen could do for her cousin.

How would the Brits like it if we were tax havens for their big companies? Ya...let's start them in Hawaii.

They like our money in their banks. It's like stealing from the Spanish to destroy our democracy (British elite have always hated our democracy) and ruin our wealth and power. The British royals have always tried to get back their power since they are Empire Builders.

The EU (Europen royal elites) and the secret world government groups are out to destroy us. Our leaders belong to these groups. By allowing it we are giving them power over our future and democracy. The Logan Act prohibits it. Demand this act be enforced and representatives get out of them. In a democracy there is no secret meeting or plan. "We the people" run the country not we the few elites (many who prospered off our backs).

[DJ13]

11. It depends on what kind of tax you're talking about

Corporations (and their party, the GOP) think closing ANY loophole is tantamount to increasing taxes.

However, in an environment of increasing outsourcing does it make any sense to continue giving the corporations tax incentives to move their production offshore?

Of course not, but the corporations/GOP will try to claim thats a tax increase.

The trick is to be smarter than they think you are, and seeing through their bullcrap propaganda.

[billyoc]

12. If you give in to your fears, the terrorists win. Corporations CAN be forced to pay

their fair share, and if they move out of the country they can be hit with tariffs. We've done it before, we can do it again. If you make it too expensive for them to move to China, they won't move. It's not that hard to figure out.

[PM7nj]

16. Please turn off CNBC. nt

[rug]

17. A truly new politics would not allow corporations to hold jobs hostage to taxes.

[Cleita]

19. Because they don't pay their fair share and the jobs

are leaving the country regardless because there are no laws in place to prevent it. Please list the "other nations" because most likely they aren't any nations we as Americans would like to emulate.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. Don't worry. President McCain will give the coprporations all the breaks you think they deserve.

:eyes:

[Solon]

21. Corporations outsource jobs to keep profit margins up, not to remain competitive...

The way to deal with it, if I were president, is simple, keep the jobs here if you want to keep your charter. I would campaign for every AG of every State of the Union to begin revoking the charters of corporations that don't comply. They have that power, and they should exercise it and put these companies on the auctioning block and allow responsible people to take control of them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Democrats inveigjing against coporate taxes

Now I've seen it all...

:eyes:

[blogslut]

23. They're not leaving, they're offshoring/outsourcing

These companies headquarter on our soil and otherwise reap the benefits of our resources and workforce.

The fact is, that according to a 2004 GAO report, from 1996-2000 sixty percent of US corporations paid no taxes at all. Just because Widgets INC. moved it's "corporate office" to Malaysia doesn't mean that it's American division should be free from tax obligations.

In the meantime, America is rife with concern trolls, bemoaning the supposed financial burden of poor immigrants. Why do you think those immigrants come here? They come here because mega-companies refuse to pay a proper US wage and must import foreign workers, willing to toil for far less.

It's time that companies, residing on US soil, pay their taxes. Past time.

[tokenlib]

25. Agree, nail the bastards!!!n/t

[Sensitivity]

26. Some other Western Industrial Nations have MUCH HIGHER CORP TAXES,, AND WEALTH TAXES

[libodem]

28. Why should all the tax be on the backs of the little people?

As a recent example my friends hired a housekeeper for the day, for my house. This woman has never been able to drive because she has epilepsy. She makes nine dollars an hour for doing back breaking work. She has to to pay employer and employee taxes on herself which totals 33%. Does anybody know is this the going rate for any small business? It's horrible. 33cents of every dollar this decent honest woman earns goes to fund the war. I say what tax cuts? It's time for corporations to pick up their fair share.

Exxon/Mobil should pay 33% tax on the windfall war-profiteering quarterly profits. Pay for their own goddamn war.

[RainDog]

29. smells like troll in here

and since you NEVER offer any actual evidence to back up your claims (are you clueless about all of Europe, for instance, which is kicking the U.S.'s butt right now because they know checks and balances create healthy economies as well as democracies.)

Europe insisted that all cell phone carriers, for instance, should be nokia compatible. in this case, non-competition among corporations made business for everyone easier and cheaper. Go read The United States of Europe and get a clue, bridge underdweller.

[jillan]

35. I will vouch for ginchinchilli that he is a hard core Dem.

that is not happy with the remaining choices.

[FogerRox]

42. ginchinchilli needs to be taken to school

A Middle class is a rare thing, occurring only 3 times thru-out history. The first rising of a middle class occurred as a result of the Black Plague. The Black Plague killed about 30% of the worlds population, creating a labor shortage. This allowed that Trades & Craftsman to command a higher wage, which trickled down to the common yeoman, much as the unionization of US labor in the middle 1900's allowed non union labor to command wages akin to union labor. Some have written that the renaissance, without a middle class that had the leisure time to even consider art & music, let alone the time to paint, sculpt, write & perform music, would have never occurred.

The second rising of a middle class occurred in the US colonies in the middle 1700's. Once a few Indians were driven away from an area, there was free land available for farming. In an agrarian society this was a big deal in that you could own your own land, grow & sell your own crops & keep the profits, much as a family owned business does today.

The third rising of a middle class occurred during the Great Republican Depression of the early 1930's. FDR's New Deal brought forward tax progressivity, as well as labor rights earned thru the union movement, such as the Child Labor laws passed in 1937 & 1938, (Kids do belong in school after all). But I've gotten ahead of myself, let me backtrack a bit.


http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/2006/11/tax-rates-middle-class.html

[RainDog]

43. I wasn't originally an Obama supporter

but I also don't post threads with absolutely no back up for an unsupportable claim... such as this one about corporate taxes overseas. Since I was married to someone from Europe for 17 years and am somewhat familiar with life there, having visited my relatives frequently and having read about the decisions the EU has made...

...I suppose I find it hard to believe that a democrat would post something this clueless. Obviously I'm wrong.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[FogerRox]

34. It was the corporate tax breaks that lead to this, this is the result of 27 yrs of regressive taxes

Corporate tax rates have come down as job outsourcing grew.

[Heather MC]

37. He has also said he would eliminate tax breaks to US companies who moved over seas

[Heather MC]

39. He has also said he would eliminate tax breaks to US companies who moved over seas

And he only said he would move them back to the levels the were before bush took office.

the tax breaks didn't keep companies in the US they moved because of the cheaper labor and free trade agreements put in place by NAFTA you know the CLINTON's enacted that program
that's why American Companies have left the US

where was the logic in Bill Clinton selling off good jobs to foreign companies?????
ie Magnaquench

[last1standing]

41. That is a classic right wing talking point.

You suggest that by raising corporate taxes companies will leave this country to set up in another. This is possibly true, but as you said, they are already doing this because they can always get a lower tax rate in a country with fewer regulations. We will never be able to convince corporations to stay on American soil by reducing their tax structures.

Along with raising taxes on corporations, we need to institute a "fair trade" policy demanding that any company trading in the US offer similar pay structures, enact environmental standards and reject governmental subsidies. Failure to do so would lead to tariffs being applied that would balance out cost. This is not "protectionism" it is "fair trade", and yes there is a difference.

[walldude]

44. Is this a joke?

You're kidding right? I think this might be a DU first. A DU'er wanting to give corporations more tax breaks? Maybe we should give more money to Exxon/Mobile, just because they are posting record profits every quarter while we pay 4 bucks a gallon for gas doesn't mean they don't need more of our tax dollars. :eyes: How about Halliburton? Ripped us off for billions and then moved to Dubai. YEah lets give them more tax breaks...

Not going to get much sympathy for corporations on DU I should think.

[creeksneakers2]

45. Obama doesn't plan to cut the overall rate

He plans to cut loopholes.

One loophole is the break for income that is offshored, so eliminating that won't hurt companies who keep their profits domestically. That loophole closure is likely to cause fewer, rather than more jobs going overseas.

Another loophole is something called carried interest. I don't know what it is or how its calculated but I know its taxed the same way as capital gains at 15%. While some argue that raising capital gains rates is counterproductive, one cannot argue that the rate of 15% is far in excess of what other countries charge for corporate taxes.

Other loopholes for oil companies will be targeted.

Obama talks about rolling back the Bush tax cuts but I don't think Bush cut the corporate income tax rate. Its more likely lots of loopholes were put in the law.

[anonymous171]

48. Someone just graduated from Reaganomics 101.

[mac2]

55. Least we forget...

X-President Reagan suffered from dementia for a long time. His mind was mush. A friend of mine in the Peace Corps used to tell about the President falling asleep during meetings. He was a puppet for those around him...like Bush (Bush has learning disabilities).

Nixon let others around him mislead him too but he was an abuser of power.

I recently saw a photo of Charlton Heston and Ronald Reagan sitting together in the White House. They had so much in common. They had been actors (although Heston more successful and talented then Reagan). They were both now politicians (Reagan more than Heston). And they both were suffering from dementia.

[quaker bill]

52. Actually it is fairly simple

You collect taxes from corporations and give lower income folks a cut. They then use the cash to consume the products of the corporations. It all comes out in the wash, except that putting money in at the bottom makes the domestic economy grow.

Low corporate tax rates are good for exports, where we compete with foriegn companies on their turf, and where the savings are exported. Low tax rates on the workers benefits the local domestic economy, where the money is spent. Businesses do not make jobs because they have tax savings, businesses create jobs because they can sell more product and need the workers to make it. Giving consumers more money creates jobs. Giving businesses more money only promotes stock market games.

[mac2]

56. Low corporate taxes might be good for corporations dealing with foreign companies

on their turf if we produced anything.