Is Clark a Dino??

[windansea]

Based on his policies and positions I don't think so but a lot of Clark's opponents like to call him a DINO because he voted for Reagan or because he praised the Bush admin in 2001.

For those curious to read some thorough debunkings of some "myths" about Clark...please go here.
http://www.ex-deaniacsforclark.com/The%20Debunker/TheDebunker.htm

Even though several other candidates have also praised Bush in the past...that's not where I am going with this.

What "election" garnered the most press in 2003...the California Recall...who won it resoundingly?...a RINO...a self described fiscally conservative but social liberal named Arnie. He got more votes than Davis did in the official election a year previously and did it with a true conservative (McClintock)dragging in 13% of the votes.

Arnold Schwarzenegger Rep 4,203,596 48.6
Cruz M. Bustamante Dem 2,723,768 31.5
Tom McClintock Rep 1,160,182 13.5
Peter Miguel Camejo Grn 242,169 2.8
Arianna Huffington Ind 47,486 0.6
Peter V. Ueberroth Rep 25,125 0.3
Larry Flynt Dem 17,446 0.3
Gary Coleman Ind 14,235 0.2
George B. Schwartzman Ind 12,370 0.2
Mary Cook Ind 11,174 0.2


So a popular action hero with zero political experience shellacked an experienced Dem in a state with 44.4% registered Democrats and 35.2% Republicans.

We can debate why this happened but not the results...but does this have anything to do with the upcoming battle? There are many reasons why Davis got terminated...but the theme Arnie ran on was on being an outsider...not a partisan...promising sweeping changes in "politics" as usual.

Nationwide we have a bitter divide and partisan bickering between Dems and Pubs in Washington. It's early days but the Dem primary may come down to the two "outsiders" Dean and Clark.

It's fair to say Dean holds the edge in political experience and domestic issues...while Clark has better defense and foreign policy credentials. Dean also has more political baggage succeptible to rovian attack.

Rove will direct a massive campaign running on defense/war on terror and the economy. The election will be decided by the middle 20% swing voters. Clark can defuse the defense/terror issue easily...opening up the debate to more democratic themes.

I think Clark, having less political baggage, can run a less partisan type campaign...the 527s can handle the attack ads...and he can run as a non partisan bring America together type candidate....and WIN.

be back in a bit to see if I am flamed, praised, or ignored.

[mandyky]

1. Maybe, maybe not

All I know is that if I had the history Clark had (voting for Nixon, etc), I think I'd have registered as a Dem prior to announcing I was running as one. Instead Clark waited a week or longer before bothering. I understand being Independent - I am a very independent Democrat, but it did not sit well with me that he announced before he was a Dem - he also bumped Edwards that day with his announcement.

I like Clark, just not sure I trust him to be a Dem. Not sure I think he is a DINO either.

[windansea]

29. right

this can hurt in the base...but help in a GE

he's working with some of the best aces from Clinton admin...I think you are going to see some great new ideas this week

[unfrigginreal]

2. "I'm running on Patriotism,faith,family and bringing the Country together"

Why would you ask a question like that?

[KittyWampus]

11. What Is Your Point?

That Patriotism, Faith, Family and Unity are the sole domain of the GOP?

Democrats must cede all this to the Right even though the Right uses empty rhetoric?

You are against all of the above?

You want a Candidate who against all of the above?

[unfrigginreal]

17. Nope not the sole domain of the GOP - just THEIR favorite issues

Democrats shouldn't cede anything to the Republicans but we should champion the issues that are most important to us. Rather than running a campaign on why we're better on GOP issues, I'd like to see a campaign on why the GOP is worse on ours.

[Turkw]

20. The GOP's favorite issues are wedge issues where everyone to the left of

Arnold are painted as liberal, if not ultra-liberal.

[KittyWampus]

21. People CARE About Their Families-Ultimately MORE Than Their Jobs

As I've said before, "It's not JUST the Economy, Stupid" (altering a known phrase).

Just out of curiosity... Why do you think Dean found a carpetbag under the Christmas tree with the baby Jesus inside?

[unfrigginreal]

26. I agree that Clark isn't running a Clinton-like campaign

Clinton stressed many of the issues important to the base. Clark is running a campaign more similar to the 2002 midterm efforts. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

[KittyWampus]

27. The 2002 Midterm Efforts Were Compliant To Junior

In what way has Clark been compliant?

Clark is to the LEFT of Dean.

He simply manages to project a moderate image.

[windansea]

36. this is national

2002 was local...

[windansea]

34. dig your new pic! n/t

[windansea]

33. yes

to do it you have to nuetralize defense/terror issue

[windansea]

31. why would I not

pretty basic american themes

[windansea]

52. just data

http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm

[HFishbine]

3. I will say this

People evolve.

[maddezmom]

12. I agree.... they do

and sometimes they even change their opinion or stance on certain topics. I want to know how they feel now and what they are going to do to defeat bush*.

[windansea]

41. what do you think

Clark's been doing??

need some more ammo??

http://www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html

[KittyWampus]

14. Yes, Clark & Dean Are Perfect Examples.

Although Clark's exemplified excellence his entire life.

[HFishbine]

16. Although?

"Although." The implication, I guess, is that Dean hasn't.

[windansea]

37. yep...

specially salamanders and politicians

[virtualobserver]

4. I agree that it is the time for an outsider

I think that all candidates are 'succeptible to rovian attack' but I also think that any of the Democratic candidates could decimate Bush with a strong attack strategy.

Not to be contrary, but I do believe that the Dem. nominee needs to do the attacking, whoever it is.

Rove is exposing an extreme weakness if he focuses on the "war on terror".

[Egnever]

Yes I think he is

Arnold didnt win Davis lost.

Arnold was just the most atractive option left so won by default.

Very wild spin to try and make clark apear to be just what we need.

Thinking on it though the situation is sort of similar. Like davis bush beats himself. All that remains to be decided is who is the most atractive alternative. I hapen to think that person would be Dean. Aparently a lot of other people agree with me.

[seventhson]

5. I do not know about a Dino, but I know that I think he is wolf/BFEE in Dem

clothing.

The wolf in the sheep clothing will have lots of fun with the sheeple.

[Closer]

6. Of course he's a Dino

but he damn sure looks like an alien.

[HFishbine]

10. For better of worse

I think he looks like Macbeth in that pic.

[windansea]

43. LOL

even a handsome fellow can take a bad pic

[democratreformed]

22. BT

:)

[imhotep]

7. if Clark wants to be non-partisan

then he needs to get the fuck out of the Democratic primaries and run as an Independent.

[Lefta Dissenter]

23. yikes,

I have an idea - if you don't like him, don't vote for him! No need to be quite so nasty about it, though. This life-long Democrat wants the opportunity to vote for him!

[Killarney]

25. I think the fact that he was non-partisan for much of his life

will help him in the GE. Talk to the 40% of the country that is independent or swing voters. They hate the partisanship of US politics. They want someone they can trust who doesn't vote a certain way just because his party tells him to. I think they would inherently trust Clark because he has been on the other side, he was voted Republican and then he came to our side and voted Democratic in the last three presidential elections. He's not deep into the system that many Americans hate. I think he has that going for him.

PS - He's a registered Dem now, not non-partisan. ;)

[windansea]

45. top of the mornin Killarney!

thanks for summarizing my jumble of words succintly!

as Carl Spackler once said


"he's got that goin for him"

:thumbsup:

[wndycty]

32. Well I am sure if he is not the guy for the Democrats he won't win. . .

. . .why do you want him out? Are you afraid he might beat your pick?

[The Zanti Regent]

8. I want Bush and De Lay GONE

Clark is the best hope to get rid of those clowns!

[windansea]

46. zulu

The greatest sin GOSSIP.
The greatest crippler FEAR.
The greatest mistake GIVING UP.
The most satisfying experience DOING YOUR DUTY FIRST.
The best action KEEP THE MIND CLEAR AND THE JUDGEMENT GOOD.
The greatest blessing GOOD HEALTH.
The biggest fool THE MAN WHO LIES TO HIMSELF.
The greatest gamble SUBSTITUTING HOPE FOR FACTS.
The most certain joy in life CHANGE.
The greatest joy BEING NEEDED.
The cleverest man THE ONE WHO DOES WHAT HE THINKS IS RIGHT.
The most potent force POSITIVE TBINRING.
The greatest opportunity THE NEXT ONE.
The greatest victory VICTORY OVER SELF.
The greatest handicap EGOTISM.
The most expensive indulgence HATE.
The most dangerous man THE LIAR.
The most ridiculous trait FALSE PRIDE.
The greatest loss LOSS OF SELF-CONFIDENCE.
The greatest need COMMON SENSE.

[deminflorida]

9. What he is actually is a viable choice to Howard Dean...

That's how the voters are going to see him, if they aren't seeing him as that right now.

[mzmolly]

13. As they say "lifes a crap shoot"

vote for Clark to find out ;)

[cally]

15. Please don't imply that Arnie is a RINO

He is not. His budget is a typical Repubican response. Favors corporate interests and hurts the poor. Workers will suffer. The only ones who will benefit are the elites. He's a Republican and his policies reflect it.

I do think an outsider has an advantage in this race.

[windansea]

47. depends on your point of view

how do you think a conservative got 13.5% in this race?

[janx]

18. I don't have anything against Clark's former votes, or

anything against Clark, really. I admire him even though he's not my first choice for Pres.

Edit: It would help greatly if we could refrain from using adaptations of freep language here. Thanks.

[windansea]

48. prefer spanish?? n/t

[NV1962]

19. Clark's no partisan hack - and that's his winning ticket

A year ago, Joe Lieberman rode the polls on the thought of a "viable" Dem running against B* with a strong enough profile to even take him on the "unassailable" national security issue.

Then, along came the General.

It's going to be a very long and nasty year - but this time, I'm convinced we're going to see aptly named "General Elections"

It's not for nothing that there's a forum here on DU named "General Discussion" :evilgrin:

More seriously... I agree with the premise of the initial post: Karl Rove surely isn't looking forward to running a defensive campaign against Wes Clark.

Chaaaaaaarge!

[Rowdyboy]

24. Yeah, there are a lot of us "DINO's"who have voted for

every Democratic candidate on the ticket for the last 31 years since McGovern. We're DINO's who'll vote for whoever our party nominates, we just prefer Clark. But because we don't join you in your primary preference, we CAN'T POSSIBLY be REAL Democrats

Thank you all so much for the name calling. I hope it comes back to bite you guys in the ass.

[windansea]

49. oops

this is a pro Clark post...did you read everything or just the title??

[Rowdyboy]

54. Sorry...

I'm become accustomed to seeing those words (DINO) used to attack me and other centrists for some time. Actually, we'd be a lot better off if we admitted that differing views are acceptable in the Democratic party. People like Evan Bayh, Joe Biden, Diane Feinstein, and (gasp) Joe Lieberman are not DINO's. They are centrist Democrats who should not be pigeonholed as the enemy because their voting records aren't perfect by the standards of the left.

.

[windansea]

55. no worries

:thumbsup:

[windansea]

28. wow!!

what a plethora of responses..I am stoked for ALL your righteous opinions...going to go back through them now

:thumbsup:

[Monte Carlo]

30. I like Kerry, but I could easily see myself voting for Clark...

... because he strikes me as a man who can get things done and look good doing it. He also knows the tactics of war - that's a plus in Washington.

[adamrsilva]

35. Clark's a DLC democrat

His only major difference with Bush is on the war and that's why he's in the race. His social policies are constructed by former Clinton-Gore staffers, and include repealing only the upper class tax cuts, school vouchers, and support for the flag burning ban. He's not a Republican, but he could be if it weren't for Bush. I actually find Dean's moderate positions more refreshing and necesarry, namely support of gun rights and socio-economic affirmative action.

[maddezmom]

38. welcome to DU

:hi:

[democratreformed]

39. ? Al Gore as member of DLC

I have read that Al Gore was one of the founding members of the DLC. I have read about him on the DLC website. What does that make him? Does that make his endorsement of Dean something bad?

[adamrsilva]

40. Gore turned his back on the DLC

when they went from moderate to outright conservative.

[democratreformed]

44. Thanks b/c I have seriously wondered about this

As a reply to your post below, I have always felt that Clark came up with his party affiliation by seriously studying the values and beliefs of each party and choosing the one that most closely paralleled his own.

I don't have anything to base this on - it's just something I came up with on my own so I could be entirely wrong.

From seeing how his issue papers have stacked up, though, I really don't see how he could have been a Republican.

[windansea]

50. take a look here...

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

u might be surprised

[Lefta Dissenter]

53. Just curious why you think

that the average Joe on the street should be able to own semi-automatic weapons? Isn't that what Dean supports? That the fed. government should stay out of it?

While I personally don't like guns at all, I feel much better with Clark's views on guns.

http://clark04.com/issues/gunsafety/

I am a gun owner and a hunter, and I believe that law-abiding adults have the right to own firearms. But like all rights, gun rights come with responsibilities. And we need responsible gun laws that are designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals without unduly infringing the rights of legitimate gun owners.

snip

Do a better job of enforcing existing gun laws. George Bush has broken the only promise he ever made on gun safety - that he would vigorously enforce the federal gun laws. Under the Bush Administration, only 2 percent of federal gun crimes are prosecuted, and 20 of the 22 major federal gun laws are almost never enforced. The laws that John Ashcroft's Justice Department is ignoring are the very ones they should be most focused on - laws against illegal gun trafficking, selling guns to minors, selling guns in a school zone. As President, I would vigorously enforce the laws that keep us safe.
major snip


Renew the assault weapons ban. These weapons are dangerous and designed for one purpose: military assault. We don't need them on the streets of our cities. We use assault weapons in the army; folks who want to use them should enlist.

Make sure that guns are designed with safety as a priority. For example, trigger locks on handguns would prevent a substantial number of the accidental shootings that occur every year. And such locks are no more of a threat to liberty than are seatbelts in cars. In addition, guns should feature indicators that show when they are loaded. Design features like these cannot take the place of training in gun safety, and the need to secure guns from children, but they will make all gun owners and their families safer from accidental discharges.

Please go to Clark's website and read his policy on guns. In order to comply with DU's rules, I really couldn't post the whole page here, but I think it's a very wise approach from a man who enjoys the use of guns for sport.

[adamrsilva]

42. Just for the record, I wasn't attacking Clark

by saying he was a DLC Dem and that he could have been a Republican had it not been for Bush and the war in Iraq, I just think that's clear from what he has said.

[windansea]

51. that's right

he could have...or maybe he's just the man in the middle

want to win??