Ask Dean campaign to please modify tax position.

[Eric J in MN]

I just filled out a contact-form and asked the Dean campaign to support Kucinich's Progressive Tax Act of 2003, which raises taxes on the rich and lowers them on the middle class for a net gain of $20 billion.

(The Progressive Tax Act is described at:
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/taxes.php
)

Ask the Dean campaign to please modify the position of raising taxes on the middle class. They could raise taxes on the rich more.

The Dean campaign contact form is at:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_contact

[poopyjr]

1. Absolutely, I'm reluctant to support Dean because of his tax policy.

[andym]

2. Very good idea

[poopyjr]

3. In fact, Dean should make it democratic. Have a poll on his website.

Have a poll on his website that asks whether he should modify his tax position.

[democratreformed]

35. After all,

he is reported to have strong grassroots support. He let his supporters vote on the matching funds issue. I wish he would reconsider the tax stance based on input from the public as well.

[Padraig18]

4. No, thank you.

Not unless Dennis is willing to switch his position on Iraq... This is an absurd idea, you know? :eyes:

[poopyjr]

5. Why is it absurd? Politicians change positions all the time.

Better for him to do it know than later IMO.


He can have his healthcare plan without raising taxes on the middle class. He needs to make it clear IMO.

[Padraig18]

6. It's absurd because he HAS a position, that's why.

Run your own campaign, thank you.

[poopyjr]

7. Excuse me?

I'm not supporting ANY candidate as of yet.

Dean seems to be the only one adamant about raising middle class taxes (a presidential election DISASTER position). Even the "true liberal" Kucinich doesn't want to do this. It just seems like political suicide. I'm all for Dean altering his position.

[mzmolly]

9. see here

www.bushtax.com

[HFishbine]

11. He may well

Dean's looks like a good shot for the nomination, but unless he has more people power than even his most optomistic supporters hope for, he won't dicate the party platform adopted at the convention.

Don't be surprised if the party platform on which Dean runs in the general is not identical to the platform he's proposing during the primary.

[Padraig18]

12. He's not going to.

Sorry if that's a deal breaker for ya, but Dean runs the Dean campaign, not Kucinich.

[poopyjr]

16. Well, I guess I can't support Dean.

I don't think I can support someone who wants to raise taxes on my mother.

[Padraig18]

17. Sorry to hear that.

Next!

[poopyjr]

19. It's unfortunate that you think this tactic

will win ANYTHING in a general election.


So, you expect Dean to become the first presidential candidate in the history of this country to win based on raising taxes? Good luck.

[mzmolly]

21. Think of it as returning to the Clinton tax code..

wouldn't you rather have a sound economy and health care for all? I know I would. I sure didn't get the whopping tax cut they are talking about, did you?

[poopyjr]

22. Clinton didn't run on raising middle class taxes

He wasn't that stupid. He knew doing so would be a one-way ticket to nowhere.

[mzmolly]

33. Allow me to re-explain.

Dean want's to return to the Clinton tax code. Calling that a 'tax-increase' is a R/W fear tactic *that unfortunately many Dems are engaging in*. You can call it a tax increase if you like, or call it what it is, repealing the irresponsible Bush tax cut. :shrug:

Allow me to phrase it yet again another way. Would you rather pay for what we do or 'charge it' and continue running defecits for your children to absorb? Would you rather that Americans have health care, adequate police/fire protection, head paper charade you received in the mail?

[poopyjr]

34. Think clearly for a moment

How do you think this will be spun in a GE? Dean will widely be perceived as wanting to raise taxes for everyone, and it will hurt him--just like it did for Mondale and Dukakis.

If you want to return to the Clinton tax code, fine, but be more intelligent about it, don't run on a position that will alienate many in the middle class-votes Dean will need.

[mzmolly]

45. I am thinking clearly. I refuse to let Republicans define the agenda.

If you'd like to do so, go ahead.

I realize lifes full of choices. Most Americans would rather be guaranteed Health Care, and a balanced budget along with the other things I mentioned then have an extra $300 to spend at Walmart.

[poopyjr]

49. I think you'd be surprised at those who would rather have the $300

[mzmolly]

76. That's where an education comes in...

$ 500 Tax Credit :)
- $ 200 *property tax increase :(
- $ 1,500 *college tuition increase :(
- $100 month for after school care :(

etc...

So far we have a deficit of ... $1,300.00

You get the picture. The tax credit was a farce, and it needs to be called such by Democrats. I don't know why they are so afraid to tell the truth. If we didn't have a record deficit, I might agree with you. But, Dean has said he'll revisit tax relief once we get a grip.


The people of Minnesota are paying more in taxes and it’s George Bush’s fault.

Here are some examples of the Bush Tax in Minnesota:

Property Taxes Soar: Property taxes increased 8.8 percent in 2003 and the proposed increase for 2004 is an additional 6.6 percent.

College Costs Skyrocket: Tuition for students attending the University of Minnesota-Twin Cites increased this year by $836 (18.2%) to $7,116.

Head Start Cut: Head Start funding was reduced by 9% in the 2004-05 biennium budget.

Family Programs Slashed: State funding for the Children’s Trust Fund was eliminated. The fund provides grants to nonprofits and public agencies for child abuse prevention, parenting education, respite care, fathering education, and adolescent pregnancy prevention programs.

After-School Programs Eliminated: After-School Enrichment Grants, which fund programs for children struggling with academic success, were eliminated.

[Padraig18]

23. 'this tactic'

This is the DEAN campaign; the DEAN campaign does not run on KUCINICH platform in the primary. Is there something about this concept that is hard to understand?

In the GE, the DEMOCRATIC candidate will run on the DEMOCRATIC platform, which may or may not be the same as the nominee's PRIMARY platform.

All clear now?

[poopyjr]

24. I'm not suggesting he run on Kucinich's platform

I don't even fucking LIKE Kucinich. I'm just suggesting he modify his potentially damaging tax position. Better to do it now and look more credible than later and look like a flip-flopper.

[Padraig18]

27. That's exactly what you're suggesting.

He has his OWN position on the tax cut. The PARTY's position may well be different in the GE, at which time THAT will be the nominee's position.

[poopyjr]

28. Whatever

I don't see the point of Dean having a different position right now anyway. I guess he thinks it will appeal to whacky primary voters.

[Padraig18]

29. His actual 'whacky' position:

"Repeal the Bush Tax Cuts and Reform the Tax Code

Financed by federal deficits and by shifting the burdens to states and localities, the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts benefited the wealthiest Americans while doing little or nothing for the middle class. In fact, the Bush tax policies furthered the administration’s goal of shifting the federal tax burden from income derived from invested wealth to the shoulders of working Americans. For many Americans, increases in state and local taxes, cuts in services, and falling incomes outweighed any modest decrease in their federal tax rate. The tax cuts are part of the long- term Republican agenda to starve the federal government of the resources it needs to meet our commitments to public education, Social Security and Medicare.

The first step in reversing this agenda, balancing the budget and putting the US fiscal house in order must be the repeal of the Bush tax cuts, and returning the tax code to rates that were in effect during the prosperous years of the Clinton-Gore administration.

The distribution of the income tax burden has changed dramatically. In 1973, corporations paid 40% of federal income tax revenues. Last year, the corporate contribution was down to 16.8%. Experts estimate that corporate tax avoidance schemes are costing the US taxpayers up to $100 billion a year. Senator John McCain claims that even a modest effort to eliminate unnecessary special interest tax preferences and loopholes would raise nearly $50 billion a year in increased federal revenues.

The current tax code is overloaded with special interest favoritism and stacked against working Americans. Unfair tax subsidies, shelters and loopholes abound. Corporations use foreign tax havens solely to avoid paying US income taxes. Tax cheats escape detection and prosecution. Abusive tax shelters are commonplace.

Governor Dean will make fundamental reform of the tax system one of his first priorities. He will crack down on tax shelter promoters and their clients He will pursue actions to impose hefty fines and bar further practice before government agencies by lawyers and accountants who certify abusive tax shelters. President Bush’s own tax commissioner testified that the IRS lacked sufficient resources to collect $30 billion in known unpaid taxes. The Governor will provide the Internal Revenue Service with the budget it needs to do its job.

The Dean economic program will strive for greater tax fairness for middle class working families. Closing corporate tax loopholes will help shift some of the burden off the shoulders of individuals. Ending unfair tax preferences will raise additional revenue to reduce the deficit and help set the federal budget on the road to balance."

http://www.deanforamerica.com

[poopyjr]

30. That's nice, but all I hear is "I will repeal all of Bush's tax cuts"

How well do you think this will go over in a general election?

"Hey Bob, this Howard Dean guy wants to repeal ALL of Bush's tax cuts. I'm having trouble finding a job as it is, the last thing I want is lower taxes! I think I'll vote for Dean!"


I'm sorry, I just think it's a disaster waiting to happen. he has to be able to appeal to some middle of the roaders and independents. I don't think this will fly. It hasn't in the past.

[mzmolly]

41. Perhaps the public has learned from the "Read my lips" incident?

let's hope so...

[dansolo]

74. Even if it meant getting health coverage?

This hypothetical unemployed person that you are talking about probably doesn't have any sort of health coverage. Don't you think that this person would take health coverage for him and his family (remember, only people with kids got a tax cut) in exchange for for tax cut?

[poopyjr]

82. The health coverage you speak of is hypothetical.

[mzmolly]

85. So is the tax cut you speak of.

[poopyjr]

89. It can be referenced and used to an advantage regardless

Who knows if healthcare would get passed.

[Eric J in MN]

68. Dean should be specify how he "will strive for greater tax fairness"

Dean should be specify how he "will strive for greater tax fairness" after repealing the Bush tax-cuts.

Otherwise, people will just think he wants to raise their taxes.

[Eric J in MN]

100. Dean supports other bills in Congress.This is one bill, not whole platform

nt

[readmylips]

31. Dean not raising taxes on middle class....NO, NO, NO

Because Dean wants to get rid of booshies' tax dissaster, pundits on Fox and dick limballs have turned it into 'Dean wants to raise taxes on the middle class.' Dean always points out how the middle class did not get a tax brake by boosh. Not when local and state taxes have gone up for the middle class. Including property taxes, school taxes, and college tuition. Even health coverage payments have gone up on the middle class. Dean has NOT said that he will raise taxes on the middle class. Dean points out exactly how boosh has fooked up the middle class.

[poopyjr]

32. You keep spewing this Dean line, but many DID receive tax cuts

substantive ones. Why do you think the GDP increase was so dramatic? SOMEBODY was getting money.

[Padraig18]

38. Did they?

Did their property taxes stay the same? Did their kid's tuition stay the same? Did their health-insurance premiums stay the same? Did their state taxes stay the same?

Any 'cut' was illusory, as any Bookkeeping 101 graduate would understand.

[democratreformed]

44. The key question is

will these things go down when taxes are returned to their previous levels? Will they? I doubt it.

For the record, I did enjoy my extra $600 child tax credit.

[poopyjr]

47. Um, MY FAMILY DID

Keep spewing the Dean line though, and watch him go down in flames.


You Dean people are stubborn. The thing is, I WANT to like Dean, but you guys make it hard.

[Padraig18]

50. So, all your family's taxes did NOT go up?

Not property taxes, not state taxes? Let me know what State you're in, since that's the case---I'm moving.

[poopyjr]

53. Nope. nm

[Rose Siding]

55. No health premium increase?

My *monthly* insurance premium INCREASE is equal to my *yearly* tax cut. I'll chase the tax man down the street to give it back!

[poopyjr]

59. Why not just raise taxes on the top 1%?

Or those that make 200K or more? I don't see the point in rasing the rates on working families right now. I hope he changes his position. I don't want another Mondale.

[Padraig18]

63. What state are you in?

I just can't believe your state didn't raise taxes in this, the worst year for state revenues since the Great Depression.

[poopyjr]

65. Florida nm

[Padraig18]

67. Florida raised taxes!

You had a HUGE revenue shortfall, just like Illinois did! :eyes:

[SW FL Dem]

116. What taxes did Florida raise?

We don't pay income tax, if you claim a homestead, your property tax increases are limited each year. Our sales tax rates didn't go up.

[Padraig18]

122. For starters:

The interest rate on umpaid property taxes doubled, from 4% to 8%. Your unemployment insurance rates went up, you now owe taxes on internet purchases...

More: http://www.state.fl.us/dor/

[Padraig18]

58. I know of NO state that has not increased taxes this past year.

Which one didn't? :eyes:

[poopyjr]

64. Even if it's true (which I'm not even sure it is), what is the guarantee

that state taxes will decrease under a federal tax hike? The fed govt doesn't tell states what their rate should be. This is a political no-win for Dean IMO.

[Padraig18]

70. Have you EVER studied government finance?

If Washington decreases block grants, etc., the state must STILL deliver services. How do you think they make up that revenue shortfall? (Answer: They raise taxes on the state's residents).:eyes:

[poopyjr]

81. Keep rolling your eyes

You don't think this situation could be altered by those who pay the MOST taxes? ie the top 1%????

[Padraig18]

86. I think pigs could fly, if they had wings.

I'm giving up. You're just not listening or reading to a thing I or anyone else has posted, so it's pointless. Good night.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SW FL Dem]

115. My family got a tax cut

We don't pay income tax, our sales tax remained the same, the property taxes are capped and can only go up a few percent a year. Our health insurance is private and unrelated to state revenue. The premiums increased only slightly. Dean's plan would cost us alot in increased payroll tax.

[bread_and_roses]

78. and any political 101 graduate knows

that Dean cannot guarantee a tit-for-tat reduction in State and Local taxes, Tuition, or anything else. State budgets run on their own timetables and Legislatures. Yes, Bush economic policies have hurt the States, but even if one thinks the Dean plan is sound and fair (which I don't) it could take years for the effect to trickle down. If ever. School tax funding on the local/State level has been an issue for years and is not going away.

Besides, I believe (and I admit this is not verifiable) that working and middle class people have a subliminal, if not articulable yet, understanding that they have been really screwed over these past twenty-five years or so by tax, economic, and trade policies of all the Administrations. Too bad they are still mostly fixated on laying the blame on the poor and minorities, not where it belongs. But they are highly unlikely to believe that any tax increase on them will benefit them in the long run, much less the short.

[Rose Siding]

42. This explains the Bush Tax:

http://www.bushtax.com/

It's smoke and mirrors- a shift- the money was *borrowed* from future tax payers. Tell people they get a tax cut and they dance like children. Hopefully, enough will realize they've been had.

[readmylips]

90. I'm middle class and got my $600.

We had three new births in the family, and we devided the money into USBonds for the three new babies. All our children are educated so we don't actually see such things as college tuition affecting us. But higher college tuition is affecting all our family members attending college. Even our community college doubled its fees, and put a hault to new building contruction. If all of America's young people cannot get an education due to booshie's recklessness, then we all suffer by not having an educated society.

[democratreformed]

39. State and local taxes will NOT be lowered when

federal taxes are raised. The result will be an overall increase.

[Rose Siding]

46. If they want federal assistance they will!

Lots of fed programs depend on how the states will use them.

[democratreformed]

48. I hope you are right.

[Eric J in MN]

57. The federal govt doesn't tell states how much property taxes should be nt

nt

[Padraig18]

60. No, the states do that AFTER they find out how much $$$ they get from DC

You don't understand how they inter-relate? :eyes:

[Eric J in MN]

72. I know that in Minnesota, they are cutting library hours and

I know that in Minnesota, they are cutting library hours and making other spending cuts.

Even if money from the federal govt increased, they wouldn't lower state taxes in the near future.

[mzmolly]

84. Viva le' tax cut!

The people of Minnesota are paying more in taxes and it’s George Bush’s fault.

Here are some examples of the Bush Tax in Minnesota:

Property Taxes Soar: Property taxes increased 8.8 percent in 2003 and the proposed increase for 2004 is an additional 6.6 percent.

College Costs Skyrocket: Tuition for students attending the University of Minnesota-Twin Cites increased this year by $836 (18.2%) to $7,116.

Head Start Cut: Head Start funding was reduced by 9% in the 2004-05 biennium budget.

Family Programs Slashed: State funding for the Children’s Trust Fund was eliminated. The fund provides grants to nonprofits and public agencies for child abuse prevention, parenting education, respite care, fathering education, and adolescent pregnancy prevention programs.

After-School Programs Eliminated: After-School Enrichment Grants, which fund programs for children struggling with academic success, were eliminated.


etc...

[Eric J in MN]

91. In terms of policy, that is a good point, but in terms of campaigning,

In terms of policy, that is a good point, but in terms of campaigning in the general election, Dean can't say he want to raise everyone's taxes and win.

Why not raise taxes more on the rich and maintain the child-tax credit or offer a new tax-break for middle-class people who buy a house or whatever?

[Rose Siding]

61. Nope. But they can attatch conditions to state assistance n/t

[democratreformed]

69. Or sales taxes either

I agree that if the same objective can be obtained without raising the middle class taxes, that would be a better alternative.

[napi21]

88. Bet I'm your mother's age.

I gotta tell you, under the Bush tax cut we got a whopping $6.00 a week. I'm retired, and my husband is going to retire this year. My property taxes increased over $100 in 2003, although we don't have to take advantage of any of the social services of Ga., the state has cut a lot of programs because they don't have the $$, and all of our public schools are hurting for $$ and laying off aides and certainly no pay raised for the teachers.

Would I agree to recinding the Bush tax cut? HELL YES!

Sure didn't do anything for us.

[Clark4VotingRights]

109. Rigidity is a deal breaker. Arrogance is a deal breaker.

Policies can change, unless a pol can't change.
And if they can't evolve and adapt based on the needs
of constituents, or potential constituents, it's a deal breaker.

[Rose Siding]

10. *Stuff* costs *money*

Once we're out of the hole and everyone is insured and educated, then look at raising the ceiling and the minimum on the payroll tax- hell, put it in a 3 or 4 year proposal but you can't promise ponies. It's a lie!

I almost CHOKED when Joe said we can't repeal the bushtax because people had to pay the high cost of health ins- that's the whole point!

[Alex146]

8. Sorry, it's Dean who runs Dean for America

not Kucinich.

[curse10]

36. LoL

Actually isn't Joe Trippi that runs Dean for America? And don't forget "you have the power" to decide if Howard takes federal funding. Doesn't seem that Dean does much in Dean for America...

[TeacherCreature]

13. ask Kucinich to change his vote on the flag burning legislation

Then ask him to get within five points of Dean in the polls. Then we can talk. This is the same kind of bullshit tactic Nader took in 2000. Same shit different candidate.

[Eric J in MN]

62. Dean deserves credit for his success. If Dean is the nominee, I

Dean deserves credit for his success. If Dean is the nominee, I want that success to go all the way to beating George W.

I don't think allowing himself to be easily categorized as wanting to raise taxes on everyone will help him beat George W.

[mouse7]

14. $500 billion deficit. You don't drop taxes with ludicrous deficits.

I'm a raging liberal, and I even understand that.

I think we are seeing a good reason why Kucinich hasn't evolved into a major candidate. Fiscal irresponsibility.

[poopyjr]

20. Yeah, but to RUN on raising taxes on the middle class?

How smart is that?

[Padraig18]

25. go read his actual position.

It's at http://www.deanforamerica.com . You will discover that the tax 'cut' is smoke and mirros, and was an INCREASE on total middle-class taxpayer burden, because of increases in propery taxes, health-care cost increases, tuition increases, etc.

[poopyjr]

26. Those increases aren't universal.

Some might have experienced an increase. Many DID NOT. I do not advocate raising taxes on the middle class right now. I just don't. In this current economy it boggles my mind why a candidate would promote something like this. Raise taxes on those who make $250,000+ and get the code more progressive.

[mzmolly]

37. Your using Bush speak here? Dean is running on fiscal responsibility

and adequate health care. Don't let "them" define the language/agenda. ;)

[poopyjr]

43. Edwards, Kerry, Clark et al. are all using Bush-speak?

They don't agree with Dean either.

Also, Dean can have fiscal responsibility without raising middle class taxes. It is a political LOSER issue.

Dean;s gotten the guns issue right, no get the tax issue right. I would feel all the more confident that he could beat Bush.

[mzmolly]

52. You got it.

They are doing so on several issues.

What you have hear is typical political pandering. You can choose a politician who makes promises he/she can't keep, or an honest one. Dean is telling you the truth. We have the largest deficit in our history, we are losing jobs, we are seeing increased property taxes etc... Something needs to be done about it.

He bases his position on the fact that most Americans would rather have health care and a healthy economy then a so called tax cut.

www.bushtax.com read it. Click on your state. If your like me, you'll come to the realization that you never got a tax cut. I know I'm far "poorer" then I was when Clinton was in office, you?

[Fleshdancer]

15. For those who don't know Dean's position:

from Dean's website:

Repeal the Bush Tax Cuts and Reform the Tax Code

Financed by federal deficits and by shifting the burdens to states and localities, the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts benefited the wealthiest Americans while doing little or nothing for the middle class. In fact, the Bush tax policies furthered the administration’s goal of shifting the federal tax burden from income derived from invested wealth to the shoulders of working Americans. For many Americans, increases in state and local taxes, cuts in services, and falling incomes outweighed any modest decrease in their federal tax rate. The tax cuts are part of the long- term Republican agenda to starve the federal government of the resources it needs to meet our commitments to public education, Social Security and Medicare.

The first step in reversing this agenda, balancing the budget and putting the US fiscal house in order must be the repeal of the Bush tax cuts, and returning the tax code to rates that were in effect during the prosperous years of the Clinton-Gore administration.

The distribution of the income tax burden has changed dramatically. In 1973, corporations paid 40% of federal income tax revenues. Last year, the corporate contribution was down to 16.8%. Experts estimate that corporate tax avoidance schemes are costing the US taxpayers up to $100 billion a year. Senator John McCain claims that even a modest effort to eliminate unnecessary special interest tax preferences and loopholes would raise nearly $50 billion a year in increased federal revenues.

The current tax code is overloaded with special interest favoritism and stacked against working Americans. Unfair tax subsidies, shelters and loopholes abound. Corporations use foreign tax havens solely to avoid paying US income taxes. Tax cheats escape detection and prosecution. Abusive tax shelters are commonplace.

Governor Dean will make fundamental reform of the tax system one of his first priorities. He will crack down on tax shelter promoters and their clients He will pursue actions to impose hefty fines and bar further practice before government agencies by lawyers and accountants who certify abusive tax shelters. President Bush’s own tax commissioner testified that the IRS lacked sufficient resources to collect $30 billion in known unpaid taxes. The Governor will provide the Internal Revenue Service with the budget it needs to do its job.

The Dean economic program will strive for greater tax fairness for middle class working families. Closing corporate tax loopholes will help shift some of the burden off the shoulders of individuals. Ending unfair tax preferences will raise additional revenue to reduce the deficit and help set the federal budget on the road to balance.

[Fleshdancer]

40. so is anybody reading Dean's position???

just curious.

[Eric J in MN]

51. The Dean webpage you quoted says the first step but second step is vague.

Step 1 is to repeal all the Bush tax cuts.

Step 2 should specifically raise taxes on the rich and provide tax relief to some of the middle-class.

The page says, that Step 2 is to "reform the tax code," but how?

It's fine to say:
"The Dean economic program will strive for greater tax fairness for middle class working families."

but unless he gets more specific about it, people will just think he wants to raise everyone's taxes.

[revcarol]

18. If I ever make it back into the middle class,

sez she, giving big sigh, this might be an issue.

Better that this be grass roots: tell all your super-delegates what you want in the DEMOCRATIC platform.

(Still think Kucinich's is more fair.:evilgrin: )

[Killarney]

54. I actually did email him

and begged him to change his strategy to repealing the tax cuts on those who make more than $200K. Promising to repeal all the tax cuts--though it's a good economic move--will lose the GE. The general public (not people highly into politics like us) does not understand much more than "taxes up" or "taxes down". We can preach to them all day about the deficit and property taxes, etc, but all they will hear is "Dean will raise my taxes" and they will vote Bush. Remember Mondale?

I really really really hope Dean changes his platform to those >$200K.

I agree with almost all of his platform, and this is the only part that I think will be unpopular amongst the swing voters.

[poopyjr]

56. Good work, hopefully we can get him to change it.

It would be a bad move not to.

[Padraig18]

66. Why would a non-Dean supporter CARE?

This is distinctly odd...

[Killarney]

71. I'm not a non-Dean supporter... were you talking to me?

If you're talking to someone else... someone that is a non-Dean supporter... they probably care because they want to win in the GE and if Dean is our nominee, he has a better chance to win in the GE if he modifies this portion of his platform.

Snarkypants. :P

[Padraig18]

73. I was talking to poopyjr.

the whole tone of the post is distinctly, ummm.... odd.

[Eric J in MN]

75. Because Dean is likely to win the nomination, this affects all of us (nt)

nt

[Padraig18]

79. Then you should support Dean.

If ypu want a say in his campaign. Sorta works that way...

[Eric J in MN]

94. If Dean the clear winner after the March 9 primaries, I'll support him nt

nt

[democratreformed]

95. Ya'll make me so sad.

How can you say something like this? It's like you don't really want others' support. Perhaps someone is really hung up on this issue and could support him if there was at least acceptance of an alternative view.

It really is sad that when someone tries to work on an issue so that they feel more comfortable with the candidate, you use this exclusivity line.

All those threads dealing with unity? - When I see things like this, I feel worse and worse about the possibility.

Or, maybe this is a personal thing between you and the poster above? If so, I'm sorry for butting in. But, this issue is very important to me as well.

[poopyjr]

96. I agree with YOU

How can I support Dean if he supports the tax hike? It's a chiken and egg thing.

[Padraig18]

99. So, he should abandon the rest of us?

THINK what you're asking him to do, for Pete's sake! Dean has the support of the people he has because of the positions he holds. Should he abandon them now, before the primaries are even started? :eyes:

[democratreformed]

101. No, I guess not - esp. if every single one of you hold the same position

Do all of his supporters think this is a good idea?

[Padraig18]

103. More do than don't. n/t

[democratreformed]

105. Okay, then

Thanks for the input.

[maddezmom]

80. if he is the nominee

it will matter to every democrat that is voting for him, not just his supporters pre-nomination.

[poopyjr]

83. Because this guy will in all likelihood be the nominee

and I want him to have the best chance to win in November. Do you have a problem with that?

[Padraig18]

87. I have a problem with someone who's not supporting Dean in the prim's...

...suggesting that he should adopt Kucinich's position. Yes, I DO happen to have a problem with that. Will you next suggest that Clark adopt Kerry's position on Iraq? Perhaps Gephart can adopt Edwards' farm policy? Carol and Reverend Al can swap positions on ANWAR and Nato expansion, maybe? :eyes:

Edit: typos

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

97. That's the best news I've had all night!

:)

[Clark4VotingRights]

113. Thanks Killarney.

I really believe that now is the time to influence our candidates.
Even it we think they're great, but dislike a couple of policies.
Tell them! They're supposed to be representing us.
I know that's an old fashioned concept...

[Sean Reynolds]

77. Thanks to Bush's tax cut we're spending $10 more on prop. tax.

My dad's veteran benefits were cut and my college tuition has gone up as well. All because he cut our taxes, but only switched the money over from different programs.

While one wouldn't think $10 increase isn't much for property tax. Times that by 12 and we're paying $120 more a year - more than we got back from Bush's tax-cut.

[bread_and_roses]

98. anyone who thinks Clinton's tax plan

was particularly wonderful please take a look at the charts and info at:

http://www.inequality.org/factsfr.html

Look at the concentration of wealth at the top - which continued to increase during the Clinton years, albeit at a slower rate. Clinton slowed the rate but did not alter the over-all trend.

Given the history of the past at least 25 years (not just the last two administrations) it is unconscionable to consider raising taxes on working and middle income people - most particularly for future benefits which cannot be guaranteed. It is most unconscionable to propose rescinding the child tax credit, a paltry sum that many working people rely on to "catch-up" on essential bills. (I still can't believe Dean proposes eliminating that...so if my memory is incorrect, I will be happy to be set right).

There is no comparison between the benefits reaped by the wealthy and the minor gains of middle income people under the Clinton administration. We do not need to return to Clinton's tax plan to be fiscally responsible - we need to tax Corporations and the Rich fairly and let working and middle-class people accrue some assests not owned by the bank to begin to rectify this gross imbalance.

And yes, most people would take guaranteed health care over a tax cut, but this is a false choice. False because Dean does not even propose "free" National Health for all, and second because they should be able to keep their cut as small pay-back for the robbery of the past quarter century AND get health care. And a progressive and fair tax can deliver that.

Working people are not sheep, not stupid, they know they've been screwed even if the demands of real lives don't allow them the luxury of reading the internet to find out how. And they've been screwed far longer than the three years of the Bush administration.

[Eric J in MN]

104. I agree. The child tax credit is very popular and Congress won't repeal

I agree. The child tax credit is very popular and Congress won't repeal it no matter who gets elected.

So why should Dean promise to repeal a popular tax-cut (the expansion of the child tax-credit from $600 to $1,000) when it will hurt his chances of getting elected, and the repeal won't take place even if he wins?

[stickdog]

102. I love the idea. But's it's too complicated.

Just repeal the Bush cuts, give us universal healthcare, raise the FICA threshold and lower the FICA rate.

[Eric J in MN]

107. That's not too complicted. Dean should say that. Please write

That's not too complicted. Dean should say that. Please write the Dean campaign and ask them to raise taxes on the rich by removing (or raising) the FICA threshold and lowering taxes on the rest of us by lowering the rate.

The Dean campaign contact form is at:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_contact

[Clark4VotingRights]

106. Good idea, thanks Eric. The time to impact a candidate's platform is

*During* the primaries. That's when they're flexible, scoping
voters out to see what they want. After the primaries they'll
be stuck with their platform. If they're so rigid that they
can't evolve, then it's a bad sign.

[Padraig18]

108. A TERRIBLE time to modify the platform.

You dance with who brung ya, as they say in IL; the time to modify a position such as this is at the CONVENTION.

[Eric J in MN]

110. You're welcome. I've contributed to three other candidates,

You're welcome. I've contributed to three other candidates, including Clark, but I haven't contributed to Dean yet because I don't think Dean's tax position would go over well in the general election.

[stickdog]

111. I like the simplifying aspects of it, but I wouldn't raise the income tax

rates any higher than they were with Clinton.

Just repeal the Bush cuts, give us universal healthcare, eliminate the corporate FICA threshold and lower the FICA rate.

Foe example, if you eliminate the corporate FICA threshold, and you reduce the FICA rate by 20%, that's a significant tax cut for every individual earning less than 80,000 a year. Meanwhile, the total effective FICA tax load is increased only for those earning over $145,000 a year, and even then the burden falls on the corporate side.

[farmbo]

112. Done...I've contacted them twice.

I for one, think he's right to repeal all the cuts, but it will be an albatross around his neck in the General Election...and I'm tired of losin'!

[arewethereyet]

114. catch-22

his position will defeat him but to change would cost him his supporters

[DFLforever]

117. I'm confident Dean will not allow himself to be defeated by any single

issue...and, most of all, his supporters want him to win.

I agree with him on the tax-cut issue but if he needs to adjust it to win, I will back him. I have the highest trust in his political instincts; in fact, I think they are what have brought him so far.

[shivaji]

118. Have patience DUers, Dean will have SIX long months to modify his

tax position after he locks up the nomination in March/April.
And I have every confidence, we in the middle class will love his tax policy.

[zulchzulu]

121. You don't think that's just a tad phoney?

Dean will slowly metamorphosize into having the Middle class keep their taxes...what makes you think you can trust him to do anything?

[Eric J in MN]

123. The sooner the better. He says that Step 1 of his tax

The sooner the better. He says that Step 1 of his tax plan is to repeal the Bush tax cuts, and Step 2 is to add fairness.

I may support him when and if he gets specific about Step 2, but I can't as long as his tax plan seems to raise taxes on the middle class. People won't vote to have their taxes raised in the general election.

[KaraokeKarlton]

119. www.bushtax.com

www.bushtax.com

[zulchzulu]

120. Hey, he's flip-flopped on everything else, so what the heck

The schtick Dean's been using on the tax cut rollback has been as much of a staple in his speeches as the line he stole from wellstone, so what the heck.

Dean could now say he's for keeping all the tax cuts and declaring April 3 "Lao Tze Poetry Day".