Despite Hillary's speech, the divisive message from Hillary surrogates continues

[ProSense]

Feinstein: Clinton won popular vote

By RYAN GRIM | 6/8/08 10:02 AM EST

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), a backer of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) during the primary campaign, reiterated on ABC’s “This Week” that Clinton had won the popular vote — an assertion that is not accepted by Illinois Democrat Sen. Barack Obama’s camp and one that, if repeated often, could harm Democratic attempts to unify behind him. “Hillary Clinton is well known, certainly she had the popular vote in this election,” she said according to a transcript. “That is something and that is something tremendous. Now, I believe the nomination is up to him. I can't tell him what to do. Nobody else can tell him what to do. All I can say is I agree with Ed Rendell, that if you really want a winning ticket, this is it.”

<...>

Feinstein said that while she waited, she and Clinton “sat in the living room and we talked a little bit, and she expressed to me the depth of her concern and caring, the fact that she had 18 million people who put their hopes and dreams in her ability to create new opportunities for people. She wants to continue that. She recognizes that it's over, and I think every instinct in Hillary Clinton is to help.”

Feinstein said the meeting went well. “She wanted to have that meeting. She didn't want to have to go out and make a press statement. She didn't want to be followed to the meeting. She wanted one opportunity to sit down with Sen.Obama, just the two of them, and I think establish a sense of rapport between them,” she said. “They were both very relaxed at the end of the meeting and when they said good night. ... I felt good about it and I think they did, too.”

Feinstein went on to make the case for Clinton as Obama’s running mate. “I think she has a movement. Trust me, from the e-mails I've been getting and people in California have been sending me, trust me, there is a movement. And it's formed from a number of different perspectives. I would have to say the head of the movement are women. Women were really invested in this candidacy, and they believe she got treated poorly, and I don't want to go into that now. I think to a great extent by the press, yes, I think she did. I read column after column which was personal and malevolent and to some extents even venal, and I don't understand why that was necessary. Maybe one column, but column after column after column, and I think that played a role in developing this strength among women that saw this kind of thing form a candidacy,” she said.

more

(emphasis added)

CLEVELAND (AP) — One of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s biggest boosters is now heeding the candidate’s call to support presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama.

U.S. Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones said Saturday that she would join Clinton in supporting Obama. She says Obama cannot win unless Clinton’s supporters rally behind him.

Tubbs Jones had been an early and fervent follower of Clinton, who suspended her campaign on Saturday.

She says disappointed Clinton supporters will eventually come around and vote for Obama, who should consider Clinton as a runningmate. She also says Clinton ran a strong campaign and now deserves a breather.

(emphasis added)

Note: Obama won, it's his show.

HILLARY AS VEEP?....Big Tent Democrat is happy that Democrats are finally united behind a candidate, but warns of stormy weather ahead:

I'd like to interrupt this Unity Day message with a small reminder to the Barack Obama campaign and the Democratic Party — unless he picks Hillary Clinton as his running mate — the day he announces his Vice Presidential candidate will be a day of disunity.

....Obama is in a tight race with John McCain and needs a unified Democratic Party and if he is set on NOT picking Hillary Clinton as his VP, I hope he has a plan for re-unifying the Party the day after he insists on NOT unifying, indeed, in dividing the Party by not choosing Hillary Clinton as his VP.

BTD has been banging this particular drum for a long time, and I happen to think he's wrong about it. The party will unite just fine around any reasonable VP choice as long as Hillary supports the ticket and rallies her fans to the Obama campaign — and I think she will.

But I have a different question: what makes anyone think that Hillary wants to be Obama's VP? I just don't see it. On a social level, it's hard to picture someone of Hillary's age, experience, and temperament being willing to play second fiddle to a young guy like Obama. On a political level, she has more clout in the Senate than she would as vice president. On a personal level, Obama and Clinton (and their respective teams) just don't seem to like each other much.

Now, maybe she wants the VP slot anyway. Who knows? But I think she'd be more effective in the Senate, have way more freedom of movement, have more career opportunities, and would do more for the party by helping to hold down a second branch of government than she would by being Obama's shadow. Anyone disagree?

I think that’s right, for the right reasons, but I’d add just one thing: when the President doesn’t especially care for the Vice President, the VP job can be pretty miserable.

Over the last 16 years, we’ve come to think of the Vice Presidency as being a great gig. The VP has power and influence, a key seat at the decision-making table, and is something akin to a presidential partner. Forget John Nance Garner and that “warm bucket of spit” stuff, being the #2 person in the executive branch is pretty sweet.

But it didn’t use to be, and it doesn’t have to be.

Put it this way: the VP has as much influence as the President decides to give him or her. If the President wants the Vice President to spend four (or eight) years going to ribbon-cutting ceremonies, then it’s an boring, mundane job. If the President wants to make the Vice President something of a co-chief executive (cough, cough, Cheney, cough), then it’s a great job.

And now apply this to Obama and Clinton. I think Kevin’s right about the nature of their relationship. I don’t know either of them personally, but my sense is they’re cordial towards one another, but have spent the last year and a half as fairly bitter rivals. Forget warmth and geniality, these two probably don’t necessarily trust one another a whole lot.

Now, I know what many of you are thinking: but JFK didn’t like Johnson! And Reagan didn’t like H.W. Bush! That’s true, and they made successful tickets anyway.

But what these responses miss is that Kennedy didn’t give Johnson anything good to do. And Reagan treated H.W. Bush like “the help.” No real power, no real influence, no policy initiatives to speak of. Just wait in the corner. Don’t call me, I’ll call you. You get to be heir apparent, but not until I’m ready.

If the President doesn’t like the Vice President, the Vice Presidency is hardly worth having. On the other hand, Clinton is a very successful senator, with influence and the respect of her colleagues. It’s easy to imagine Clinton taking the lead in the chamber, partnering with an Obama administration on major policies, most notably on healthcare. My sense of Clinton personally is that she actually enjoys the work — showing leadership in hearings, introducing legislation, working out compromises, etc. She is, in other words, an excellent legislator.

So why get stuck in the Naval Observatory without much to do?

link

edited to fix quote

[sellitman]

1. But she did win the popular vote you haters!

:sarcasm:

[Cha]

18. I was all ready to answer you until

I saw your :sarcasm: tag. :hi:

[niceypoo]

156. The OP is one of two people still posting attack threads....

And both of the two were amongst the most vitriolic and divisive over the last several months. I feel sorry for those who have fallen under the spell of anger and hate. Some people went so far off the deep end that they are permenant casualties of the primaries, which are over now. Anger becomes a comfort zone to some people and they just cannot fathom letting go.

[cloudythescribbler]

2. How about we allow a LITTLE time for issues to settle, BUT on the CRUCIAL practical ...

concrete issue of who should be the VP on the ticket, there hasn't been, as there needs to be, an actual mobilization of progressives advocating at least certain criteria (eg NO ONE WHO EVER SUPPORTED THE IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION) for Obama's running mate. Perhaps a full-page ad to this effect, signed by one of those massive litanies of literati-and-glitterati could at least generate focused discussion.
I am still leery -- though I must duly recognize that HRC has herself insisted she won't be foisted on the ticket -- of Obama being subject to EXACTLY that pressure, something that would provide a point and purpose, indeed agenda, behind all this nonsense about HRC winning the popular vote, etc.

[iconicgnom]

95. Not so cloudy, cloudy

I think you're spot on - that you've captured the idea and answered the question.

[EFerrari]

3. ProSense, can you help me?

I'm trying to figure out the number of Clinton's women voters that have indicated they will not vote for Obama (at the moment).

What I have found so far is that Obama wins younger women, Obama and Clinton split evenly the middle group and that Clinton got women over 65.

Women over 65 are only 6% of the population and that's ALL women over 65, not Democratic voters.

Can you recommend a source where I can go dig? I'd like to find an honest number for these refusniks.

[Carolina]

4. She and her surrogates stoked those fires

ad nauseum and that's why her speech yesterday, forced by party leaders, did little to undo the damage. And that's also why I will take a long time to get past my loathing. Oh and forget? Never.

[Diamonique]

8. Exactly!

Her speech was great. But she's gonna have to do a lot more to extinguish the fires she created.

[EFerrari]

9. Yep. n/t

[me b zola]

66. Nodding in agreement. (n/t)

[Diane R]

70. You nailed it. Exactly.

[grassfed]

98. Brace yourself. They'll be back.

[ForeignSpectator]

142. Maybe she thinks she is getting off that easy? One speech and everyone just forgets etc etc...?

:shrug:

[apocalypsehow]

5. "Obama won, it's his show" - and here is where the fundamental disconnect with reality is showing

itself. The boosters simply refuse to acknowledge their Queen's defeat in a gracious manner - they want to lose on their terms. And those "terms," of course, come back to one thing: Hillary Clinton should have been the nominee but it was "robbed" from her, and therefore should be given anything she wants, no questions asked.

Their dreary routine is quite tiresome, and they know it. They want it to be tiresome, because they enjoy being the turds in the punchbowl since their Queen's coronation was derailed.

Another excellent OP, K & R.

[BlooInBloo]

6. It would be nice if the "real" Clinton supporters would denounce this...

But I predict they'll do nothing but defend it, or make excuses for it.

[goclark]

68. Did you see Tubb Jones when they flashed to the audience

during the speech?

She should have felt like a first class fool.

There she was,in the middle of other staffers.
Assistant Abedin was in front of her to the right and about 4 men staffers were in front of Tubbs to the left.

When HC said, "We all have to get behind Obama,"--- Tubbs went completely crazy, clapping and so excited.

Guess she didn't get the Memo but the others on the "team" were glum as glue.
No enthusiasm and no smiles.

Frankly, the other team members were sad and they acted appropriately IMO. It's hard to get over a blow that big in front of millions of cameras.

I'm African American and Tubbs needs to wake up and realize that she was the only one that was happy for that moment in time.

Now she has the nerve to think that she needs to continue demanding stuff for HC.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

81. I've been most disappointed in Jackson Lee and Tubbs-Jones. Does anyone know

if they have formidable challengers? I know that Jackson Lee is in trouble down in Texas. But Tubbs-Jones is a strong incumbent.

[goclark]

101. I don't know but I have been disappointed as well

I didn't know that Tubbs Jones was in trouble. That is a shame.

Diane Watson was running against two people that had names that I can't even remember.

Her district is extremely disappointed in her additude but I think she did win.

This should be her last term. She really needs to rest.

[goclark]

125. Tubb Jones needs to go to Promises for a rest nt

.

[Major Hogwash]

113. I saw that, she acted like she was on drugs.

I cringe whenever she goes on tv because she has this disconnected look in her eyes, like "well, I'm on tv, so I should smile big" look even when they were talking about Hillary losing or conceding.

Unreal.

[goclark]

122. My thoughts exactly

Most of the time when you know you are going to be viewed by millions all over the world,you check your reactions and gestures.

She was in her own time zone,either not aware of those around her or the brain was over reacting to the news.

Maybe she was secretly cheering for Obama and this was her way of letting Obama supporters know that she was on "their side."
Well, she looked like a crazy person, IMO.

I would sure like to see a clip of her reaction. Maybe I got it all wrong.

[FlyingSquirrel]

7. With any luck, Feinstein's comment would be locked next week if she were a DU'er

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6309183&mesg_id=6309183

[CakeGrrl]

16. The sincerity of the concession speech is offset by trademark Clinton mixed messages

If anyone thought that the Saturday speech was going to be the big unifier, this proves otherwise.

It was step one.

Now it's Hillary's responsibility to walk the walk or lose what credibility she has.

The more she allows her surrogates to plant seeds of division, the more she puts lie to her claim to support and endorse Obama.

Feinstein STILL shills the "popular vote". Translation: 'Here's the dog whistle to you die-hard Hill followers that this nomination was STOLEN from her.'

Tubbs Jones is out there pushing the 'unity ticket': 'Put her on the ticket or none of her voters will vote for Obama and we'll lose.'

Unless Hillary gets out there and puts a STOP to these messages, then it can be assumed that she approves of them being conveyed on her behalf...even though she can claim to have clean hands because of her "endorsement".

Regarding the VP push, this is the most comprehensive breakdown of all the reasons she SHOULD NOT be on that ticket if Dems really want to win, never mind the fact that anything that Pat Buchanan and Rush Limbaugh want the Dems to do is definitely NOT what the Dems ought to do:

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/06/why-no-nightmare-ticket-lets-count.html

[newmajority]

10. The DLC are grasping at straws

They know that the long national 28 year corporatist nightmare is just about over, and they are absolutely desperate to force Hillary onto this ticket.

[Cha]

22. Of course, it's about the dlc grasping and anyone

can see that who's been paying attention for at least the last 8 years.

[Raster]

143. DiFi is about at DLC as they come.

The last thing the oligarchy wants is a progressive candidate that will put the interests of the country and the people above corporate profits. DiFi has links to the Military Industrial Complex and can always be counted on to support the rich and privileged, of which she is a card-carrying member.

[polmaven]

11. I'm going to need a little help

understanding how U.S. Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones said Saturday that she would join Clinton in supporting Obama. She says Obama cannot win unless Clinton’s supporters rally behind him.is divisive!

I fully intend to follow Congresswoman Tubbs' lead and join Senator Clinton in supporting Obama, but....do you think he can win without us?

[EFerrari]

14. Who are "us" exactly? I've been trying to figure that out all morning.

Which Democratic voters will not vote for the nominee?

[polmaven]

21. "Us" means...QUITE OBVIOUSLY...

Clinton Supporters, as referenced in the statement which the OP finds divisive.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

25. Except, Clinton supporters are moving to Obama, Obama is courting them

and Hillary is endorsing Obama and asking her supporters to do the same.

So, where is the problem here? :shrug:

[polmaven]

34. Ok, listen CLOSELY!

The OP found the statement U.S. Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones said Saturday that she would join Clinton in supporting Obama. She says Obama cannot win unless Clinton’s supporters rally behind him.to be DIVISIVE!

Obviously, the "would join Clinton in supporting Obama" could not have been the divisive part, so, obviously it was the "She says Obama cannot win unless Clinton’s supporters rally behind him" part that would be divisive.

Does the OP disagree with that? Does the OP think that Senator Obama CAN win without Senator Clinton's supporters?

It is really a rather simple question.

[EFerrari]

35. Yes, it is simple. Tubbs Jones is implying there is a problem

where there is none.

That's divisive.

[polmaven]

48. She was "implying" nothing of the sort.

Her statement was correct. She was simply stating that it is importannt for us to follow Senator Clinton's lead, because if we don't he will lose, and we cannot allow that to happen.

[EFerrari]

50. Not according to yourself.

Read this CLOSELY:

"She says Obama cannot win unless Clinton’s supporters rally behind him."

That would be, implying that there is a problem.

And again:

"She was simply stating that it is importannt for us to follow Senator Clinton's lead, because if we don't he will lose, and we cannot allow that to happen."

Again, implying there is a problem. Not to mention, she says "he will lose", and not "we will lose". Divisive.

The positive statement would be different.

"Now that Senator Clinton and her supporters are throwing their support to Obama, we are sure to win in November."

The OP is right on.

[polmaven]

51. You will obviously never understand

as long as you hold on to your intense "hatred" of Senator Clinton, and anything or anyone surrounding her. Any further discussion of this here is pointles.

[EFerrari]

52. That's simply a dodge. n/t

[mcg]

85. I think I agree with you, they are making a mountain out of a molehill,

no pun intended.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

82. WHITE WOMEN AND "HARD-WORKING" WHITE PEOPLE!!

It is utterly offensive and outrageous! It insults our intelligence.

[polmaven]

114. Yeah, see....

this is where I need your help...Where in the statement I have referenced OP does it say anything about WHITE WOMEN AND "HARD-WORKING" WHITE PEOPLE!!????

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

157. This is what the media continues to assert...

That white women and "hard-working white voters" will not support Obama. Your candidate fuels the fires and her surrogates (e.g., Ed Rendell, Geraldine Ferraro) made direct references to what white people will or will not do.

Unless your candidate--Hillary Clinton--directly knocks down that kind of divisive language, then we cannot move forward.

If her supporters like yourself refuse to acknowledge how divisive she and her campaign has been, then we cannot move forward. I wasn't pleased with her speech because she simply didn't go far enough.

She and her supporters need to admit that Obama won this election fair and square. Stop lying about the popular vote. Stop lying about the 18 million voters. She may have won their votes but she doesn't own them and she cannot treat them line pawns.

If she and her supporters, like yourself, really want to reach out and are sincere about uniting this party, then she needs to reel in her surrogates who are--even today--continuing to lie, strong arm Obama about *his* VP choice, and are playing divisive political games.

[sandnsea]

17. YES n/t

[polmaven]

23. I will assume you

mean that "yes", that is what the OP thinks.

[madfloridian]

30. Excuse me, but that "pamper us" argument is getting old and tired.

Either you vote the heck for Obama or you vote for McCain...what the heck ever you want to do

[polmaven]

40. From where on EARTH

did you POSSIBLY glean a "pamper us" argument?

Read the OP, then read my response at #11!

THE QUESTION IS SIMPLE! Does the OP disagree with the statement that Senator Obama cannot win unless the Clinton supporters rally behind him?

READ THE STATEMENT! Where does it say "pamper us and we will get behind you"? What in that statment is divisive?

[madfloridian]

44. It is your choice. It was my choice in 04 as a Deaniac to get on board with Kerry.

Nobody had to effing cater to me or beg me. It was the right thing to do even though we were sad inside.

Vote for Obama, don't vote for Obama. It is your choice.

[polmaven]

49. Please READ my post #11.

You know...thae part that says:

I fully intend to follow Congresswoman Tubbs' lead and join Senator Clinton in supporting Obama.....Now, tell me where that is unclear about for whom I intend to vote, OK?

[kelligesq]

137. Those are not the only choices

madfloridian (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-08-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Excuse me, but that "pamper us" argument is getting old and tired.

Either you vote the heck for Obama or you vote for McCain...what the heck ever you want to do

[sandnsea]

33. No

I mean yes we'll do a helluva lot better job getting Obama elected without a bunch of half-hearted "supporters" throwing bombs from the sidelines. I'd sooner take my chances with the elusive white male then continued to be bullied by you and your cohorts.

[Cha]

26. Dean didn't extort his voters when he lost to Kerry..

We came on board to help the Democratic Party as we knew it wasn't about our ourselves.. and we're so proud of Dean and what he's accomplished by building the 50 state strategy that helped Obama win.

[madfloridian]

32. Exactly right.

:hi:

[Cha]

76. Just trying to deal in

reality here with all the "18 million voter" and "won the popular vote" talk, mad.

:hi:

[polmaven]

54. Again...this is NOT

extortion. Congresswoman Tubbs Jones plainly stated that she will join Senator Clinton in fully supporting Senator Obama. He cannot win without Senator Clinton's supporters. There is no extortion implied. It is a STATEMENT!

I give up on people who intentionally distort everything Senator Clinton or any of her surrogates say. I will be so very glad when this is no longer allowed. Bashing Senator Clinton is not supporting Senator Obama. It never has been, it never will be.

[madfloridian]

67. She just assumes those 18 million are EXCLUSIVELY hers. Not true.

They had a choice of the two, some preferred her. That does NOT exclude their also liking Obama.

It is another of those Penn/Wolfson/Ickesesque type of arguments that have no merit at all.

[polmaven]

73. I will say it one LAST time

and will not continue with this anymore....IT WAS A SIMPLE STATEMENT OF FACT that Senator Obama cannot win without Senator Clinton's supporters.

When I was making my own choice, I looked at the candidates and found most of them to be equally quallified...with the exception, perhaps, of one or two..one of whom then ran for the Green party nomination...and then settled on Hillary for reasons of my own. I have stated numerous times that I will support Senator Obama.

Nobody has said, and Congresswoman Tubbs Jones did not say that we are exclusively Senator Clinton's. SHE MADE A STATEMENT OF FACT!

It is not her problem that some of Senator Obama's more - um - vociferous supporters insist on taking everything Senator Clinton or any of her surrogates or supporters say and twisting it into a divisive, bashing statement.

I actually spoke with Governor Deval Patrick at the MA state Democratic Convention yesterday and opined that Senator Obama needs to address some of his our of hand supporters and convince them that, if they take this kind of attitude out of the anonymity of message boards and into their neighborhoods, it may not do much to convince the independent or the wavering Republican.

[Cha]

75. But, it's a big problem for us that

senator clinton chose to lie and pander during this primary.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

83. And Senator Clinton cannot win without Obama's supporters!

NO DEMOCRAT CAN WIN WITHOUT THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTE!! I don't care who they are!!

[polmaven]

112. Senator Clinton

is NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE!!!!!

[tomp]

128. and i will say ONLY one time...

...it is NOT a fact that obama cannot win without clinton supporters. it is an opinion, a speculation, a prediction, but NOT a fact.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

130. AMEN!!!

[Cha]

74. I think it's a gratuitious statement...

they're Democrats and they would vote for the nominee unless they don't care about the Environment for one thing.

Dean never gave Kerry a hard time and he lived to go on to greater things.

[seafan]

87. 'Extortion' describes what was in the Palm Beach Post yesterday from a Florida superdelegate:

Florida superdelegate Jon Ausman endorsed Clinton after he knew Obama secured the nomination in order to "send a little message" that she needed to be his vice presidential pick.

"This is about winning," Ausman said.

Palm Beach Post, June 7, 2008


I found this distasteful, and certainly not in keeping with Clinton's speech on Saturday. Behavior such as this does not help our cause.

[Cha]

94. jon ausman must be dlc all the way.

Obama won't negotiate with extortionists or terrorists.

[Mudoria]

133. Obama will do whatever is

politically expedient and will help get him elected.

[krkaufman]

93. So very true. A much better example of unifying the party. n/t

[Window]

12. I wish someone would notify the press proof of that popular vote thing.

Also, I thought Hillary made it clear she did not want to be VP.

DiFi is a pain in the butt.

Tubb Jones is a bigger pain in the butt.

"U.S. Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones said Saturday that she would join Clinton in supporting Obama. She says Obama cannot win unless Clinton’s supporters rally behind him.

She says disappointed Clinton supporters will eventually come around and vote for Obama, who should consider Clinton as a runningmate."

Is she saying Obama cannot win unless Hillary's supporters vote for him, but they will eventually come around only if he chooses Hillary as his running mate?/i]

[Kokonoe]

63. If Obama chooses another woman for VP, I believe would cause

even more trouble in Hillary's lingering campaign.

[Window]

117. I feel the same way. However, Obama is very intelligent and I trust him

to make the right decision based on what he wants in a VP.

[Cha]

96. tubb jones is dreamin'..

clinton :nuke: that bridge. tubb jones needs to get educated on Obama and what he's about. Clue..it's not clinton cutthroat politics.

Sorry, tubb jones you lose.

[Window]

116. You've got that right. I don't know about these people with their 'conditional' support.

[dailykoff]

13. The Clinton campaign is far from over.

She, Bill, and her surrogates (like Feinstein and Ickes) are simply going underground, but they'll be trying to convince superdelegates to keep voting for the "more electable" candidate right up until the August convention. That was clear from her "concession" speech which hit all her talking points right on schedule.

Not that I'd dream of raining on this week's Clinton carnival ... :crazy:

[Cha]

28. Yeah, we wouldn't want to rain on hilary's carnival but

I'll be damned if I'm going to deny realilty because all of sudden hilary decided to acknowledge reality.

[dailykoff]

78. Exactly.

"Unity" is just one more lie the Clintons are using to get their way and it stinks.

[Cha]

15. See...I knew that Shit would continue with feinstein and the dinos

being so showcased on the gasbags Sunday morning shows.

But, she gave a good concession speech.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Obama Won

There is a delegate system in place.

It's like football...The team with most points win, not necessarily the team with the most yards... Kind of like the Electoral College...

[newmajority]

29. Depends on whether or not the officiating is corrupt

See December 12, 2000. Or Super Bowl XL.

[Zhade]

45. I LOVE your sigline.

20 years of my 32 on this planet under those two families, and now NEVER AGAIN!

YES!

[slinkerwink]

20. I don't care about this anymore.

[ProSense]

31. It's supposed to be irrelevant at this point,

but how is healing going to occur with top Democrats continuing to make ridiculous comments? Don't you think that people will be taking cues from them?

You can ignore it, but the comments are not directed at you. These comments can't be blamed on the media. Diane Feinstein should know that this isn't helping.

[Cha]

99. Those who ignore hilary

and her latest strategy do so at their own peril. Thanks for keeping us vigilant, ProSense.

[MethuenProgressive]

24. Get over it. Move on.

Try posting something about Obama for a change.

[Zhade]

27. NO. SHE. DIDN'T.

These lies from and on behalf of clinton need to fucking STOP.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. well yes she did.

What needs to stop is the incessant cry of Obama fans to deny reality.

[Zhade]

46. No, she did not. Stop lying. CAUCUSES COUNT.

You lost EVERY METRIC. Get over it.

[Garbo 2004]

36. How come Feinstein didn't pay any attention to the emails against the IWR, Rice's confirmation as

Secretary of State and other issues where CA Dems opposed the Bush Administration but Feinstein supported it? We know she got emails, calls and letters. Don't recall Feinstein citing those emails as a "movement" against the war, against the Bush Administration or that she felt any need to heed her constituents on those matters.

But now Feinstein gets emails and suddenly they're worthy of note (when they're in line with her agenda) and she not so surprisingly cites them as a basis for her advocacy of Hillary as VP. (Feinstein's been publically promoting Hillary as VP on the ticket since at least May.) :eyes:

[EFerrari]

38. "War profiteer backs Clinton refusniks" is the headline here. n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. On a side note,

Obama took it easy down the stretch, giving Clinton some room. He could have campaigned much harder at the end. He didn't.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[EFerrari]

39. He really is a long distance runner. I love that about him.

:thumbsup:

[Unbowed]

41. Thank you for this post. The re-writing of history to placate Hillary Clinton supporters is just

plain silly.

She didn't get the popular vote. Nor does she have an army of 18 million supporters.

Nearly 18 million votes is impressive. Trying to claim that it was greater than the vote for Obama (and discounting all the voters in caucus states) or trying to claim every individual who cast a ballot as a supporter, just cheapens the truth of the impressive gains Clinton did make. It doesn't do her a service and it doesn't do the Democratic Party a service either.

Neither does trying to force Obama to put her on the ticket.

Feinstein should know better. Shame on her.

[Politics_Guy25]

42. Feinstein is a DINO-we all know that

Pro Iraq war, voted for Lieberman/Kyl I believe, for warrantless wiretapping. Ignore the DINO.

[hardbop]

47. Fienstien was on CNN this morning doing the same thing...

Talking about the 18 million votes, pushing the VP slot.

An order should come from the TOP of the Democratic leadership to no longer mention anything about Clinton's popular vote numbers, or the fact that she won South Dakota in the final contest.

All this does is remind bitter, "on the fence" Hillary supporters of the primary and will increase their resentment.

Its over. Time to concentrate on electing Obama.

[Liberal Veteran]

53. Well...since she won the popular vote.

Here is the prize:





There! Everyone's happy now.

[Prophet 451]

55. how about Hillary as Majority Leader?

Now, i think Hillary as VP is probably a non-starter but she might make a good fit as Majority Leader.

[Liberal Veteran]

56. I don't. It would put Clinton in a position to control and/or derail Obama's agenda.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but either a position in his administration OR SCOTUS would be just fine, but I just don't trust that wing of the party.

[Prophet 451]

57. Sec of Education?

Fits in with her strengths.

[Liberal Veteran]

60. Hmm. MAYBE, but I can't help thinking that would bode badly in the event of a Cylon attack.

For those who don't watch Battlestar Galactica, when the Cylons show up and wipe out the 12 colonies, Laura Roslin, the Secretary of Education, is the highest in the chain of secession to survive and ends up being sworn in as President.

[Prophet 451]

61. Well if that happens, we're all fucked anyway n/t

[mod mom]

62. I believe that she alienated many of her fellow Democratic Senators.

My guess is Sec of Health is probably the top of the offers. One decent speech after months of divisive rhetoric isn't easily forgotten.

[Flash Bazbo]

72. Personally, I'd hate to see her rewarded for this kind of thing

It feels too much like greenmail.

[Obama4prez4life]

58. She needs to shut them up imo.

[PBS Poll-435]

59. In due time...

The fact that the Hillary-portion of the FL congressional delegation endorsed Obama before Saturday's speech says a lot.

[Diane R]

69. She doesn't want to shut them up....they're doing exactly what she wants.

[TexasObserver]

64. Hillary is obligated to tell DiFi and all the others to stop talking shit.

IF she is to claim to be a leader, and that's a big IF, Hillary has to step up right now and control her supporters. If she cannot do that, she cannot be considered in charge of her top supporters.

Now is when Hillary can prove whether or not she has any ability to lead her troops at all.

[PeaceNikki]

65. Despite Obama's nom and Hill's endorsement, the divisive message from SOME BO supporters continues

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

71. You got it backwards. Hillary has a responsibility to stop what she started...

when the sexism was used, when the media was blamed, and when they blamed Dean for their loss.

[CakeGrrl]

80. Wrong. The DOUBLESPEAK from HRC continues...via her surrogates

HRC: "I endorse and support Barack Obama." Also: 'I'm not actively campaigning for the VP spot.' (paraphrased)

Surrogate: "Hillary won the popular vote." "Hillary needs to be Obama's VP or else he won't win."

Those are mixed messages.

What is the point of asserting, incorrectly I'll add, that HRC has the popular vote?

Obama is the nominee.

What sense did it make for Hillary to claim this on Tuesday, and why is Dianne Feinstein still pimping the falsehood? What is to be gained by that?

I'd like someone to try to explain how it helps anything.

[Cha]

100. Wrong..we're not digging our

head in the sand and ignoring the latest political signs from camp Orwell.

We're political activists who still notice things like we have over the last 8 years or longer.

[muryan]

109. You'll find a ton of praise for Hillary here

on dailykos, huffingtonpost and other liberal websites. The only Hillary leaning one that has truly come around is MyDD. The rest of them have gotten worse since she endorsed him, and have shown their true colors as Obama haters pretending to be Hillary supporters.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. OMGZ! A HATE HILLARY PROSENSE THREAD!!!!!11111

:rofl:

[ExPatLeftist]

86. I didn't see any "hatred" here. I saw someone that does not like supposed Democrats

throwing bombs at our nominee.

Is that acceptable to you?

Or is it easiest to just label anything you like as "hatred" and write it off rather than addressing it?

[jonestonesusa]

88. Prosense, as usual, posted news articles to keep us apprised

on campaign developments - the statements from candidates, their surrogates, and the news media. The concern raised is the longer-term effect of a continuing focus on the Clinton campaign's talking points, some of which have already hurt the Dem's chances in the fall, IMO and in the opinion of many others.

It's perfectly fair to have a discussion about this topic, and it's your right of course to disagree with the point of view. But I appreciate the discussion - I find it informative. To describe this OP in terms of "hate" is not fair minded at all.

[QC]

97. Shocking, isn't it? n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

79. She can now stand back and let The Enablers do her dirty work so that she doesn't accept blame

They are like their own 527's. Instead of reigning them in and telling them to stop in the name of unity, they will work hard to weaken Obama and bloody him up. And they will keep on until he is forced to accept her as the VP. I don't trust them and I don't trust Hillary Clinton. Paul Begala is still out there touting the popular vote lie, as is all of Enablers. It's a KKKarl Rovian trick. Get the Hillary 527's out there and stand back and watch as they do their job. She'll give half-hearted apologies but won't do much to stop the rhetoric, just like Bush did when Kerry was swiftboated.

[roseBudd]

84. I have read the posts on her official blog they are fan girls invested in an adoration that requires

that the subject of their adoration realize her dream of being POTUS. The fan girls are convinced that if they hope enough, pray enough, dontate enough, go to Denver or those things failing, vote mcCain to ensure a democratic loss they and Hillary can realize her dream in 2012.

[Breeze54]

89. Need more salt to rub in the wounds? Talk about divisive....

:eyes:

Perhaps you should give it a rest? Maybe? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

107. So, do you think it's a good idea for Clinton surrogates

to keep pushing divisive talking points?

:wtf:

They need to stop.

[Breeze54]

147. BOTH sides need to fucking stop!! - It's OVER!!! n/t

[Dems to Win]

90. Senator Feinstein is making me very angry

Senator Feinstein is making me very angry by claiming HRC won popular vote -- STILL!

It's intellectually dishonest and very divisive. It promotes the idea that Obama 'stole' the nomination.

[CakeGrrl]

92. Exactly. If HRC *truly* wanted unity, she could stop this.

The only point I can see to mentioning that the loser actually won the popular vote (which she DID NOT DO) is to imply that the winner didn't really "win". If someone has a better explanation, I'd like to hear it.

Hillary was just over at Feinstein's house the other day, and they're good buddies.

Then, what do you know? Feinstein gets on the talk shows and drops the popular vote meme that Hillary is no longer able to repeat due to the 'intervention'.

I find it hard to believe Feinstein is trotting out this talking point against Hillary's wishes.

Until Hillary states clearly that she opposes this talk, I hold her responsible for the talking points being discussed on her behalf.

[kelligesq]

139. Really? She could stop it? The same way the orders

came down from Obama, stop bashing Hillary and her supporters, but you continue to do so ?

How come he doesn't stop you?

[CakeGrrl]

145. "Bashing" does not equate to calling out contradictory behavior on HRC's part

The bottom line is that these people - Geraldine Ferraro, Dianne Feinstein, Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, etc. - are out there advocating the same talking points that Hillary herself used less than 1 week ago. There is no disputing that.

HRC cannot claim that we have to work together to get Democrats elected while her surrogates run around saying the same things they've been saying during the campaign:

"Sexism is why Hillary lost!" (and the implication is that Obama is part of that)

"Hillary won the popular vote" (she can only claim that if you ignore certain votes that cannot be counted)

"Obama will need Hillary's supporters, and he should consider or for VP" (or else...)

Hillary can certainly ask them not to keep pushing these talking points, which are now nothing but divisive since we have our Democratic nominee.

The test is whether she will actually do it. And if she does not, that tells us quite a bit.

[Cha]

102. Intellectually honest was never one of

dianne feinstein's strong points.

[guruoo]

91. Why don't you just go ahead and tell us who you're working for?

[Cha]

103. She's working for us and our democracy by

bringing us articles like a lot of activists on DU. She's not an ostich that's for sure.

hilary is not going to be the vp candidate so dianne feinstein can take her bogus popular vote canard back to Senate and see what they think of it.

[guruoo]

104. You guys promised once Hillary conceded, and endorsed Obama you'd stop attacking her.

[Cha]

105. Quit whining..it doesn't

become you.

[guruoo]

106. Well,

enjoy it while you can...




timeanddate.com
Time until Wednesday, June 11, 2008 at 12:00:00 Noon
2 days
58 hours
3490 minutes
209405 seconds


http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=m&year=2008&month=6&day=11&hour=12&min=0&sec=0&p0=179

[Cha]

108. And don't be a such a jerk

We have work to do.

[guruoo]

132. If so, then why don't you tell your fellow suspects to quit whining about Hillary, and get to work?

[Hugabear]

126. Who the fuck is attacking Hillary in this thread?

NOBODY. This thread is NOT about Hillary, it's about her surrogates.

And when people like Feinstein are out there keeping this shit going, you want us to just shut up and take it?

Funny how this doesn't seem to work both ways, isn't it? You want us to just shut our fucking mouths, but you have absolutely no problem with Hillary's supporters and surrogates continuing their attacks, do you?

[guruoo]

150. I looked, and can't find a single Barak bashing OP on greatest, or latest.

[Hugabear]

155. Please re-read my post, and answer the question

I asked who was attacking Hillary in this thread.

Sorry, but going after Hillary surrogates and supporters who are attacking Obama is NOT the same thing as attacking Hillary herself. This is NOT a "Hillary bashing" thread.

Nice try. I guess by your logic, since I'm attacking your response, ergo I must be "bashing" Hillary?

[Dems to Win]

110. I just sent this email to Feinstein

Dear Senator Feinstein:

OBAMA WON by 61,000 votes!

You are making me very angry by claiming Senator Clinton won the popular vote, over and over again. Even today, after Clinton endorsed Senator Obama.

Your claim is intellectually dishonest and very divisive. It promotes the idea that Obama 'stole' the nomination.

Senator Obama won fair and square. If you want the Democrats to win in the fall, you will say so repeatedly.

[candice]

111. Don't do it, Hillary! It's a sinking ship....

....there was a reason that you were winning up to the end. Mr. Obama does not have the record of a winner.

A candidate who can win the election would have taken off, leaving you in the dust long ago, especially since you were trashed by the media and told to get out constantly.

Now that the media picked the contender, will they turn on him as they try to elect Maverick McCain?

Hope it doesn't get so boring without Hillary to pick on that the media doesn't start investigating candidates. An indolent press really helps if there are skeletons in your closet.

[ima_sinnic]

119. keep your delusions alive. "Mr. Obama does not have the record of a winner"?

well, he certainly doesn't have Hillary's record of a LOSER.

so, so bitter--your loser candidate had EVERYTHING going for her: big-time name recognition, a former popular president husband, TONS of money, obsessive media coverage--even when she came in THIRD in Iowa, she was still raised up as "inevitable," with the 2nd-place winner IGNORED--a team of "brains" behind her -- and she not only LOST, but WENT BANKRUPT doing it. She acted like a real republican, backstabbing Obama and giving the repukes plenty of talking points, laughing nerviously and asking "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" when asked a simple direct question about conflict of interest, LYING, SMEARING, DISTORTING. Her "supporters" are a 3-ring circus JOKE that resemble the Terry Schiavo Christ on a trailer hitch pack of fanatical, shrill fanatical "victims" and downright weirdos.

And speaking of closet skeletons: she has more than a closet full -- a whole stinking warehouse of scandals, backroom deals that she won't talk about, questionable associations. And what about her love affair with NAFTA, and with being the SEnator from Punjab, with her votes for war and her embarrassing ass-kissing of *? And the reason she WILL NEVER BE VP is that she won't even pass "vetting"--so how the hell would she even get close to being president?

she is the epitome of a LOSER, a whining, crying, tantrum-throwing LOSER who thinks all will be forgiven with one good speech while she does NOTHING (like the NON-leader she is) to really convince her "supporters" to back Obama and bring unity to the Democratic Party. These screeds by her "supporters" are just further proof that her speech was, like everything else about her, just a calculated, FAKE, INSINCERE, PUT-ON ACT.

so write me off as simply a "hillary hater." believe me, she had to earn the deep deep animosity I feel for her. I didn't used to feel this way, she did it all on her own.

[Zuiderelle]

115. TWO DAYS LEFT. Get your licks in while you can.

:eyes:

[11 Bravo]

118. Trust me, she will use every second of those two days.

It's fucking pathological.

[QC]

123. It's a good thing they instituted the three post rule in response to her endless spamming,

otherwise we would be getting fifteen or twenty hate threads a day from her, like before.

[Zuiderelle]

135. Thank goodness for that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. love ya!!!!

:loveya:

[ProSense]

131. Are you suggesting that in two days news will no longer be allowed on this site.

So an appearance by Diane Feinstein, a report of what she said verbatim, will no longer be allowed?

Do you really believe that in two days only selective news will be allowed on DU?

You are in for a surprise.

This isn't an attack, it's a fact. Feinstein needs to end the pressure and divisive talk.

[Zuiderelle]

134. I am saying that such obvious divisiveness will not be allowed.

It's laughable that you claim that Feinstein is being divisive, since your OP is nothing but divisive.

[ProSense]

136. You don't make any sense. n/t

[Zuiderelle]

138. Are you talking to yourself? n/t

[mtnsnake]

121. Speaking of divisiveness, your post is the epitome of it. Nice going, ProSense

At a time when most people on this forum want to come together to beat Republicans, you're still doing your best to fan the flames of Clinton hatred.

If you spent half as much time talking positively about Barack Obama as you do hating the Clintons, we'd all be a lot better off for it.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[FlaGranny]

124. I got "blasted" a couple

of days ago when I suggested that meeting was secret at Hillary's request. I see I was right. It was her. I don't blame her a bit for it either. Everyone was attributing the secrecy to Obama and I just didn't believe it was him. In either case, I don't see anything wrong with it - no matter whose idea.

[SeaLyons]

127. What would Obama supporters be saying if

the shoe was on the other foot? Think about it.

[tomp]

129. why would anyone believe....

...hillary in the first place? why would anyone be surprised that feinstein would continue the extortiton? sometimes the naivete of democrats is mind-boggling.

[kelligesq]

140. None of you are doing anything to accelerate unity -

when Kerry was the candidate, I didnt like him, or trust him one bit - corporate front - but with Edwards as his veep,whose populist stance was and is what democrats are supposed to be, I held my nose, worked like hell to get them elected and voted for him.

Right now MSNBC is reporting that 22% of democrats will vote for McCain. That's not good news - but by all means keep on bashing Hillary, the Clintons, her supporters and maybe you can get that number up to 50% of Hillary's people will vote for McCain.

If you want a democrat in the White House come Jan 20,2009 you better start praying he picks HRC as his veep - apparently it's the only way those 22% are going to hold their nose and vote for him.

[ProSense]

141. No one cares.

Obama won, get over it. Hold your nose again or cut it off to spite your face. You are an adult. These pathetic veiled threats aren't doing anything for unity either.




edited typo.

[tomp]

144. what does it matter if they call themselves democrats...

...and vote right wing? hillary is dlc. she is doing to the country what lieberman did to connecticut. it doesn't matter about her nice speeches, the damage is already done. what the u.s. needs is a real re-alignment of real progressives, not weighed down by the right wing in sheep's clothing.

"Unity" is not my issue. just as i abhor hillary/bill/dlc power grabbing, i abhor obama "reaching across the aisle" to the wolves and playing political games with there representatives on "our" side.

[guruoo]

162. And now she'll be campaigning for Obama.

[GetTheRightVote]

153. Finally, someone who gets the real picture, I also do not believe he will win

without her, for many reasons.

[TexasObserver]

146. Isn't it obvious that Hillary has ZERO control of her supporters?

That's why there are several of her most ardent supporters running around here making asses of themselves, and why some of her supporters are ignoring entirely her endorsement of Obama.

[ampad]

148. It's like a bad dream that will not end

Sorry, wish I could rec.

[Beacool]

149. Thank you senator Feinstein for your constant support!!!

At least there are some people who don't switch with the wind and stay loyal until the end.

[The Night Owl]

159. I took Diane Feinstein's statement as a statement of fact, not an expression of loyalty. {EOM}

[iconicgnom]

151. You're an excellent journalist. Thanks.

[The Night Owl]

152. How many surrogates are we talking about here? Oh, I see...

Two! Two surrogates.

{thunder claps}

Another great post.

:rofl:

[dailykoff]

154. Feinstein is a pretty big gun and she was an national TV.

Rangel isn't exactly a minor player here either, so this is clearly a coordinated pressure campaign. I'm beginning to see how Gore got talked into putting Lieberman on his ticket, which I could never really figure out before.

[The Night Owl]

158. I would be willing to bet that most Americans don't even know who...

...Diane Feinstein and Charlie Rangel are or what their positions in government are. So, just relax. The party doesn't fall apart if a few people don't march in lockstep. For crying out loud, one of the strengths of our side is that our people don't march in lockstep.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

160. she did win the pop vote.....show me one person in Obama's inner circle that denies it

[Beacool]

161. They don't care around here.

They want to pretend that MI doesn't exist and ETs must have cast their vote in that state. Hillary won the popular vote if one counts all 50 states and Puerto Rico. Obama ended up with a few more pledged delegates (127). Ultimately, it was the super delegates who decided the nomination. Well, then THEY can get him elected without her supporters' help as far as I'm concerned.