Should We Judge by Size of State Population or the stars a candidate has?

[slinkerwink]

Why hasn't Clark received five stars instead of four stars? In my opinion, this makes him a less electable candidate....</sarcasm>

Ok, let's apply the brakes: *screech*

Trying to do comparisons by state populations or the full stars of military insignia is silly because all it does is bring up nonissues and inflame them into big issues. Can we just not pull this tack, especially among Democrats, okay?

It doesn't matter whether you're from a state of 600,000 or 2.1 million, or whether you have four or five stars, what really matters is how you governed that state or ran your office that you were appointed to.

Why are we focusing on these tiny little minuscule details? It's because there are no other concrete issues to attack Dean or Clark on since all those attacks have been rebutted in well, and certain supporters are reduced to picking apart little details in a desperate attempt to attack that candidate.

Also, as an aside to the mods, the title of this thread does reflect the subject since it's discussing the irrelativity of little "attack" details which distract from real, concrete issues.

[JVS]

1. Hey, I forsaw this!

[slinkerwink]

2. yeah, I know....

[CWebster]

3. Isn't texas the biggest?

....and by that line of reasoning who would be most eligible by that measure alone? Chimpy?

[hellhathnofury]

4. California by population , Arnold(if he could). By land Alaska.

[slinkerwink]

6. yep, then by that line of reasoning, Bush is the most electable

;-)

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

7. you're not even responding adequately to the points that my post makes

so to go with your cute little icon blurb, it does seem like you're just talking hot air.

[Dookus]

11. "I don't know who Lloyd Bentsen is"

I'll give your post all the attention it deserves.

[slinkerwink]

13. I'm responding as any others of my generation would

but this is also typical of other Americans that aren't avid political junkies as we are.

[Dookus]

14. Sorry...

anybody who thinks her political opinions should be valued, yet doesn't know who Walter Mondale is, probably has an inflated sense her own knowledge.

I was born in 1961, and I knew who Harry Truman was before I left Junior High School.

Also, welcome back as your old identity. It was really cute to re-register as somebody else to start a retaliatory thread. Precious, almost.

[slinkerwink]

16. and yet, you're not responding to my original post, but making

distractions by bringing up my political inexperience about one candidate in the 1970s that lost in a general election. Am I expected to know every single candidate that ran in a primary election? No, I don't think so.

My knowledge does extend to Presidents, and other political arenas.

[Dookus]

25. You readily admitted...

that you're not even aware of recent political history. And I should respect your opinions because....?

Take a few history classes and get back to me.

[slinkerwink]

26. the classes I'm taking focuses on the present political history of 1990s

not of the 1970s. If you don't respect my opinions, there's the likelihood I won't respect your opinions.

[Rowdyboy]

8. I think I agree with you but I am very old

(nearly 50) and often confused. I hope you're saying that leadership is an intangible asset that a candidate can exhibit, regardless of the size of his/her domain, or his/her calling in life; that Howard Dean and Wesley Clark would both make exceptional presidents. If so, I agree with you. If not, I misread you.

Steve

[slinkerwink]

10. yes, that's exactly what I'm saying but within a younger context

;-)

[Rowdyboy]

15. Gotcha...

n/t

[Bombtrack]

9. That's rediculous. Certain states are harder to govern than others

Vermont hasn't had alot of the problems that other, more complex, states have, period.

The mayor of Austin would not be taken seriously in a democratic primary, even though he or she had the same number of constituants as Vermont.

[slinkerwink]

12. Vermont has the same problems that any other state does

State economy, creating jobs, providing healthcare for people, balancing the budget, and it's all done within a very strict state legislature.

The term for a governor is two years, so that provides him with a very strict vetting situation by his own voters. If the governor does badly in his first term, he's voted out. The fact that Dean has been elected five times, and governed for eleven years, shows that he has withstood that vetting procedure from his people, and has nearly all of the support of Vermonters in his candidacy run.

[Bombtrack]

17. No it doesn't, it doesn't have the same crime problems as any large

or even most medium sized states do.

the difference between governing Vermont and governing say, ohio, is like managing the Giants or managing the AAA ball team of the devil rays

[slinkerwink]

18. and Vermont is one of the states that got an A by the NRA during Dean's

term so his ability to keep crime down by focusing on prekindergarten child care, and family counseling can be worked on a national model.

[Bombtrack]

21. that was a really unintelligable and nonsensical response

Vermont has low crime because it's the size of Massachusetts with a tenth of it's population, without huge economic disparities.

It was that way before he came to office. And it will be that way in 50 years

It WASN'T because he was an NRA kissass. Which is a seperate, but certainly aweful, thing

[slinkerwink]

22. oh, you're awake?

so you're ignoring the fact that sexual abuse was reduced by 70% during Dean's governorship?

[Bombtrack]

27. what does that have to do with him being from the second smallest state

and arguably the most stereotypically left wing state.

I never said he didn't do anything right, I said what he does is less impressive because he's only worrying about as many people as some county commissioners do.

When he says that 3 percent more children have health care, it's less applicable to a national parallel because he's only talking about a few thousand kids.

[SahaleArm]

23. NRA is the answer to inner-city crime problems?

Child-care and family counseling are not the root cause of crime and will be laughed off by everyone outside of Vermont. Jobs and education will do more than family counseling.

[Bombtrack]

29. To be fair family counceling does help

but most of the other candidates also have just as good if not better proposals for mental health and/or community restoration

[SahaleArm]

30. Family counseling is an after-the-fact solution - root cause is poverty...

Pre-empt the cause by supplying good jobs and making progrssive tax reforms first; then add benefits like counseling and extra child-care.

[slinkerwink]

31. that's what Dean did by luring companies to Vermont through

captive insurance. Dean cut taxes twice in a row in Vermont, and raised the minimum wage...

[SahaleArm]

33. Yes because captive insurance employs lots of poor people?

Easy to cut taxes when you're running a surplus like every other state in the country thanks to Clinton. Captive insurance was a corporate welfare dream.

[slinkerwink]

34. Dean was still running a surplus in Vermont when the states were

in the red when Bush was elected and turned the surplus into a deficit. It's because of Dean's tax breaks to stay in Vermont and provide jobs for hispeople there, that kept those companies from going overseas........don't you get it? Dean did great as governor in creating jobs for the people of Vermont, and will likely do so as President of the United States.

[SahaleArm]

35. We were running a surplus in WA State - Tax cuts affect current budgets...

more than FYI 01-02 budgets becasue they combine with lack of state-level revenues. Corporate Welfare always brings jobs but little revenue, like the Boeing deal recently cut by Governer Locke. Vermont is not exactly a large state so changes have a more direct impact and visible effect, economy of scales. Any Democrat will do a good job in bringing back jobs but Dean's tax plan makes it harder by shifting the burden back onto the middle-class; people who actually spend money and stimulate demand.

[Skwmom]

19. When people find out Dean was the governor of a state

with a population less than Columbus Ohio you should see their reaction (so I'd say it's a pretty important fact). However, as you point out it is important how the state was governed (too bad Dean misrepresents his record in Vermont).

[slinkerwink]

20. oh come on, when people find out that Clark did a fundraiser for the GOP

you should see their reactions also, so I'd say it's a pretty important fact. However, as you point out it is important how the state was governed, that's why Dean's record is giving him a huge rise in the state and national polls.

[moz4prez]

24. uhhh, you don't earn a population like you earn stars

and a governor receives little recognition for how often the people of his or her state copulate

[slinkerwink]

28. so Clark received recognition for how often people in his army fucked?

is that what you're saying as for the reason for Clark's stars? Methinks you need coffee.

[moz4prez]

32. Don't obfuscate the content of my posts!

I am saying that Dean has little to indirect control over the SIZE of the population of Vermont. As reward for a job well done, Dean did not receive PEOPLE. Instead, he was re-elected.

Clark received stars as recognition of his performance as a general.

The two things are apples and oranges.